Totally ot: space travel

[Tickdoc]

So I read this little article on how we can get to mars in 70 days using this new engine developed that shouldn't work but does?

This rocket engine breaks a law of physics. But a NASA test says it works anyway.

This rocket engine breaks a law of physics. But a NASA test says it works anyway. - The Washington Post https://apple.news/AzR8nkdxQQ36YyyKG1LasxQ

I read the article, and it sounds like it still doesn't work. Is this just another pie in the sky future tech thing like the flying cars we were supposed to all be flying around in right now, or is this potentially hopeful?

I would love someone smarter than me to explain how this could actually work and how it could lead to covering that much space so quick.[IMG]http://cdn.sci-news.com/images/enlarge2/image_3161e-NGC-1783.jpg

[ultraman6970]

Well the thing is... how big it needs to be to actually be able to be used as propulsion?? They said this thing worked like 2 or 3 years ago the problem is that they need to send a ship that wont be small at all. And thats the data I never been able to find about this... works works blah blah but nobody said hey it needs to be like a 50x50 solar panel and the engine must generate whatever to move whatever.

Either way unless we find aliens soon I do not see earthman going to the stars anyday soon, and by anyday soon I mean in the next 500 years.

[mtechnica]

I heard the microwaves in side the cavity resonate and generate waves so big that the wavelength can't fit inside the universe and for some reason it causes it to generate a small amount of thrust. Could be wrong. I'm not sure if anyone is certain how it works but it will be interesting to see what happens when it gets tested in the field (space).

[mtechnica]

I don't think it needs to generate that much thrust to work in space and a nuclear reactor could probably power one for a few years. The fact that it can just keep accelerating without expelling mass makes up for the small rate of acceleration, it will just keep building speed. Makes me wonder what would happen if the craft hit dust at speeds approaching c...

[ultraman6970]

Not funny go to mars and then hit a couple of marbles going super ultra fast, the mission could go south really quick. That's my main reason to think that we wont explore space till the next 500 years unless the vulcans arrive to earth to tell us how its done soon :)

Between you and me, between the zillion of planets and galaxies, we can't be the only ones and if somebody came to earth who knows if they actually left. Why to comeback to your own planet when everybody is already dead when you get back.

[Mzilliox]

are we really so convinced we are screwed that we need to travel to another planet? I mean this one is pretty damned awesome, but I guess for humans the grass is always greener.

I'm putting my chips into sticking around here and making the best of it. I find it a vast waste of resources to dedicate to this fantasy. the other planets don't sustain life, what do we think is the point? its stealing minds and resources from real life problems.

there, explained:D

[OtayBW]

^ It could also be said that it is the inherent nature of Man to reach out to greater and higher challenges in the quest for understanding and meaning in the Universe. Just like the fundamental curiosity of a child, an inseparable element of our character is that we never stop being explorers.

[cadence90]

Either way unless we find aliens soon I do not see earthman going to the stars anyday soon,
What do you mean by "find" aliens?
I mean, I'm pretty sure I've come across some on this very forum!
:)
and by anyday soon I mean in the next 500 years.
500?
Well, I guess if your next child is a boy, his name will NOT be Christopher or Columbus, or if you have triplet sisters, they will NOT be named Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria!
:)

[verticaldoug]

My favorite quote from the movie The Martian is when Captain Lewis is asking the crew about altering course to save Mark Watley on Mars:

"And before you answer, consider the consequences. If we mess up the supply rendezvous, we die. If we mess up the Earth gravity assist, we die. If we do everything perfectly we add 533 days to our mission. 533 more days before we see our families again. 533 days of unplanned space travel where anything could go wrong. If it’s mission critical, we die."

Martinez: "Sign me up"

[ultraman6970]

Hehehe... remember a guy in a photograph school in my country, he was saying he was from another planet and doing a sign like spock with his hand, was similar not the same one... dude really needed attention or was really from another planet :D


What do you mean by "find" aliens?
I mean, I'm pretty sure I've come across some on this very forum!
:)

500?
Well, I guess if your next child is a boy, his name will NOT be Christopher or Columbus, or if you have triplet sisters, they will NOT be named Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria!
:)

[Tickdoc]

I just hate fluff scientific pieces....but I love science.

I remember when I was 9 or 10 I read an article about how by the year 2010, there would be no more trees on the planet, hence no more paper.

For some reason, my pre-pubescent brain was fine with no more trees, but appalled at the thought of no more paper.

In hindsight, the article was probably suggesting that at our current rate of deforestation there would be no more trees left in the world, but that article solidified may distrust of the printed word and scientific extrapolations or predictions. It made me question every scientific journal since and develop an automatic brain turn-off whenever predictions are spouted.

So this article says they have have built something that works by defying the known laws of physics, that it works, but they don't know how. I find that extremely interesting in a world where we have slowed our rate of discovery in such matters.

Thanks for satisfying my curiosity.

[CampyorBust]

I remember when I was 9 or 10 I read an article about how by the year 2010, there would be no more trees on the planet, hence no more paper.

For some reason, my pre-pubescent brain was fine with no more trees, but appalled at the thought of no more paper.


Here you hit on a most important impasse, while we are still blessed with trees and paper on planet Earth. (OMG I cant believe it either the Manbearpig was wrong! Say its not so!) The same cannot be said for the majority of other celestial bodies, most of the time they are as bare as a baby’s bottom when it comes to vegetation. So, no Toilet Paper in space that’s right your strawberry flavored TP supply will only last half the journey! This is where the timeless advice of my good friend Wilbur Sargunaraj on how to properly use an Eastern kakoose type latrine will come in handy, space cadets take note this is important, enjoy…

https://youtu.be/dKkryfdtMNQ

Sadly water and dippers also scarce in space, or so we are told.

Edit: I forgot there are at least two dippers floating around up there.

[JStonebarger]

are we really so convinced we are screwed that we need to travel to another planet?

Some are, at least.

Stephen Hawking: "Although the chance of a disaster to planet Earth in a given year may be quite low, it adds up over time, and becomes a near certainty in the next 1,000 or 10,000 years."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/health/hawking-humanity-trnd/

[sg8357]

are we really so convinced we are screwed that we need to travel to another planet? I mean this one is pretty damned awesome, but I guess for humans the grass is always greener.

This is the same argument made by my great grand uncle 500 times removed,
always saying that money into log boats was money down the mammoth hole.
Uncle Uruk also had a dim view of monotheism and the poor public education
system in Sumer.

[Cicli]

Some are, at least.

Stephen Hawking: "Although the chance of a disaster to planet Earth in a given year may be quite low, it adds up over time, and becomes a near certainty in the next 1,000 or 10,000 years."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/health/hawking-humanity-trnd/

That dude is on ludes.

[Chris]

So, we travel through space to an unihabitable planet from an unihabitable planet? Why not just use the same technology to still live here?

Having said that, my friend just returned from the big Island where he was filming NASA practicing for the Mars mission in one of the craters there.

[Mzilliox]

Some are, at least.

Stephen Hawking: "Although the chance of a disaster to planet Earth in a given year may be quite low, it adds up over time, and becomes a near certainty in the next 1,000 or 10,000 years."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/health/hawking-humanity-trnd/

then our demise is our own fault, or God's will, or whatever it is you believe. I'm a bigger fan of making the best of it here. there are plenty of problems yet to be solved. And I agree, I am certain humans will kill themselves off if something else doesn't beat us to it.

[Mzilliox]

So, we travel through space to an unihabitable from an unihabitable planet? Why not just use the same technology to still live here?

Having said that, my friend just returned from the big Island where he was filming NASA practicing for the Mars mission in one of the craters there.

exactly

[Mzilliox]

This is the same argument made by my great grand uncle 500 times removed,
always saying that money into log boats was money down the mammoth hole.
Uncle Uruk also had a dim view of monotheism and the poor public education
system in Sumer.

I don't see your point?

[Bob Ross]

"Although the chance of a disaster to planet Earth in a given year may be quite low, it adds up over time, and becomes a near certainty in the next 1,000 or 10,000 years."

When I was ~7 years old I read an article about the solar system in my Young Person's Encyclopedia that mentioned that sometime in the next 4 billion years or so our sun would go super-nova and self-destruct, taking all the inner planets with it.

This caused great consternation in my 7-year-old mind, and I was very upset for quite a few years thereafter.

But my perspective has changed in the ensuing 50 years. If someone told me now that there was a Damn Good Chance our planet would render itself uninhabitable in the next 1,000 or 10,000 years, my first reaction would be to ask "Why so optimistic?"

[saab2000]

We cannot propel ourselves through space adequately fast. The only way we will end up in another solar system will be to manipulate time and space. The galaxy is a big, big place. The speed of light is a slight obstacle to getting anywhere in less than centuries.

[seric]

Why not just use the same technology to still live here?

This would need to be at least partially a mixture of the two approaches. Our natural resources are simply going to run out, colonizing space for purposes of mining to refresh resources on earth could be an approach.

I personally believe we've gone past certain tipping points in regards to climate change. I think there is a lot of debate going on behind closed doors by those in power that are operating off of more information than is available to the public on rather or not battling climate change should be abandoned in favor of alternate paths forward, or rather it's a battlefront worthy of continued attention. I think some of the more recent decisions regarding NASA reflect this.

I have a degree of access to some of the top minds in the ocean science side of things, they tend to have very grim outlooks. The full grimness is never disclosed to the public, in part to the tentative nature of those in the sciences, also in part due to the politics involved in funding. I assume the same behavior exists elsewhere in the geology and climate sciences.

[Mzilliox]

This would need to be at least partially a mixture of the two approaches. Our natural resources are simply going to run out, colonizing space for purposes of mining to refresh resources on earth could be an approach.

I personally believe we've gone past certain tipping points in regards to climate change. I think there is a lot of debate going on behind closed doors by those in power that are operating off of more information than is available to the public on rather or not battling climate change should be abandoned in favor of alternate paths forward, or rather it's a battlefront worthy of continued attention. I think some of the more recent decisions regarding NASA reflect this.

I have a degree of access to some of the top minds in the ocean science side of things, they tend to have very grim outlooks. The full grimness is never disclosed to the public, in part to the tentative nature of those in the sciences, also in part due to the politics involved in funding. I assume the same behavior exists elsewhere in the geology and climate sciences.

While most of us are stupid, not all of us are. some of us spend our lives outside and know for a fact the environment is under attack by humans, despite what science chooses to divulge. for me the disheartening part is we don't care at all. not even a little. folks educated enough to do anything are too comfy to change a damn thing. folks who may change are not educated enough to know that change is needed, nor are they the root cause. and we need to stop pretending politic and economy are real tangible things, as they are not. they are just constructs for control, ideas, concepts, and can be toppled when necessary..

there are so many real issues needing attention

humans are a baffling breed for sure. I'll keep doing my best, growing my own food, reducing my garbage and eco footprint, planting trees, preserving animals, and generally being aware of the propensity of humans to overconsume everything. because its the right way to live and its all I got. ive wasted a lot of breath trying to tell folks these things. its time to just lead by example. our leaders sure as hell won't do it.

and this season causes me to be hyper aware and very saddened by societies norms, so I'm extra verbal about this today.

[11.4]

Sounds like you all are still trying to digest Trump.

Seriously, first of all, that technology is basically about a plasma field induced in a resonating chamber. The field can produce quite powerful emissions that can produce forward movement. However, it's a form of directed energy that's been studied at length for military and other purposes and it doesn't scale readily and it ultimately needs more power than it produces, thus it's basically like everything else and can't break the basic laws of physics.

After that, it's basically about space travel. And yes, suddenly Andromeda does seem appealing after our recent elections, though I was still thinking about Mars whichever way it turned out. If we could have a cosmological moment (and that election certainly was not one), we could come back in a few years and only be a few hours older but be considering a new president. David Duke? Sarah Palin?

I like Hawking and if you read what he actually wrote (which none of the press seem to have gotten right) he's not that far out there and actually pretty reasonable. He's just talking the odds and considering the number of things that can be detrimental to our planet. That's a pretty morose conversation, but not like we don't have parts of it all the time. This whole thing is a headline in search of notoriety.

[Tickdoc]

Sounds like you all are still trying to digest Trump.

Seriously, first of all, that technology is basically about a plasma field induced in a resonating chamber. The field can produce quite powerful emissions that can produce forward movement. However, it's a form of directed energy that's been studied at length for military and other purposes and it doesn't scale readily and it ultimately needs more power than it produces, thus it's basically like everything else and can't break the basic laws of physics.


Thanks for the explanation.....I still don't get it, but that is not surprising. Is it like when Clark griswald handles the gift aunt Edna brought (her cat)? The cat goes bat$hit crazy in the package and moves the package? Add in a cone shape and my mind can wrap around that.

[MadRocketSci]

are we really so convinced we are screwed that we need to travel to another planet? I mean this one is pretty damned awesome, but I guess for humans the grass is always greener.

I'm putting my chips into sticking around here and making the best of it. I find it a vast waste of resources to dedicate to this fantasy. the other planets don't sustain life, what do we think is the point? its stealing minds and resources from real life problems.

there, explained:D

I can imagine the same type of conversations taking place back in East Africa in the good ol' days. Repeat 1000 times after that. Some stay, some keep moving. Why break the cycle now? As long as we stay out of each other's way, we'll be good.

I'll put my little mind to whatever i want. Do you think that developing and demonstrating better closed-loop life support systems, better ways to reclaim/reuse water given significant power constraints, improving ways to better control habitable space CO2 levels, and minimizing the energy/resource requirements to produce food would have useful applications on Earth? There is no capitalistic force that is driving the free market to come up with these solutions right now, and probably won't be until we run out of ground water.

[doomridesout]

We likely could develop technology to terraform Mars from afar, planting seeds to make the planet far more habitable within 100 years (GMO lichens are the ticket there). Not hedging our bets as a species is moronic, this planet is not going to be habitable at this rate relatively soon.

[unterhausen]

this idea definitely breaks the laws of physics as we understand them, namely conservation of momentum. It seems very likely that the NASA experiment had contributory experimental error that led to them thinking that it worked. As I understand it, NASA doesn't officially say it worked. Wasn't it a leaked report?

If you are going to say you can break the laws of physics, then one has to ask what the new laws of physics are going to be. This would be a very significant thing, not just for space travel. As I understand it, the inventors have no ideas along these lines.

I have seen that this idea has very vehement fan boys that will listen to no argument. Great way to conduct science.