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Tony T
11-21-2016, 04:53 PM
What is the H Plus Son Archetype OSB?
The EDD database has conflicting data (0 and 3)
I thought it was 0, but now I'm not sure.

parallelfish
11-21-2016, 05:07 PM
Offset Spoke Bed - an asymetric rim for rear wheels. Spokes are offset to somewhat compensate for rear wheel dish. 0 is no offset, 1 is 1mm OSB offset.

cadence90
11-21-2016, 06:05 PM
What is the H Plus Son Archetype OSB?
The EDD database has conflicting data (0 and 3)
I thought it was 0, but now I'm not sure.

I think that those "OSB = 3.0mm" are typos on the EDD site,

Afaik H+Son has never made an OSB (asymmetric) "Archetype" rim, so the correct OSB = "0mm".

Tony T
11-21-2016, 06:16 PM
That's what I was thought, thanks.

oldpotatoe
11-22-2016, 07:26 AM
What is the H Plus Son Archetype OSB?
The EDD database has conflicting data (0 and 3)
I thought it was 0, but now I'm not sure.

H+Son doesn't make a OC rim but they may be refering to how ofset the spoke holes are, left to right side. 0 being drilled on centerline..offset one way or another for LH/RH spokes. Pic of inside of Archetype I just took. Somebody who is better at math than me can figure out how much offset at the inside of the rim side.

Tony T
11-22-2016, 08:52 AM
I was looking into that, and I think that the OSB is still 0, but the holes are angled. (I think this is how the incorrect OSB info was entered into Edd, someone measured the offset angle holes as OSB)

I'm reading Roger Musson's book where he discusses "Rim spoke hole stagger", which I thought was OSB (which led me to this question), and reading further he discusses "Angled spoke holes" which look to have 0 OSB, which I believe are what Archetypes are. (I'm still researching before I attempt my 1st Build :))

oldpotatoe
11-22-2016, 08:57 AM
I was looking into that, and I think that the OSB is still 0, but the holes are angled. (I think this is how the incorrect OSB info was entered into Edd)

I'm reading Roger Musson's book where he discusses "Rim spoke hole stagger", which I thought was OSB (which led me to this question), and reading further he discusses "Angled spoke holes" which look to have 0 OSB, which I believe are what Archetypes are.

Yup...some, like I think DT RR1.1/465 had 'em drilled on CL..no angling at all. Again, cheaper since the rim can get drilled one pass..all holes.

ColonelJLloyd
11-22-2016, 08:58 AM
Yeah I have never factored the alternating offset when ordering spokes and never had an issue. For those spoke length calculators OSB value does refer to whether or not the rim is an "off center" model and if it is, the offset value is given by the manufacturer. The A23 OC, for instance, is 3mm off center.

oldpotatoe
11-22-2016, 08:59 AM
Yeah I have never factored the alternating offset when ordering spokes and never had an issue. For those spoke length calculators OSB value does refer to whether or not the rim is an "off center" model and if it is, the offset value is given by the manufacturer. The A23 OC, for instance, is 3mm off center.

I just calc the RH side then add 1mm to left...2mm for a non OC rim.

Mark McM
11-22-2016, 11:21 AM
I was looking into that, and I think that the OSB is still 0, but the holes are angled. (I think this is how the incorrect OSB info was entered into Edd, someone measured the offset angle holes as OSB)

I'm reading Roger Musson's book where he discusses "Rim spoke hole stagger", which I thought was OSB (which led me to this question), and reading further he discusses "Angled spoke holes" which look to have 0 OSB, which I believe are what Archetypes are. (I'm still researching before I attempt my 1st Build :))

And this leads to one of the fallacies regarding large flange hubs. Many people assumed that a large flange hub built a stronger wheel*. But often, large flange hubs built less reliable wheels, because of the greater angle that the spoke entered the rim. While rims are often drilled with spoke holes angled laterally to compensate for the spoke often, they are not drilled with the spoke holes angled fore/aft to compensate for flange diameter.

ColonelJLloyd
11-22-2016, 11:30 AM
And this leads to one of the fallacies regarding large flange hubs. Many people assumed that a large flange hub built a stronger wheel*. But often, large flange hubs built less reliable wheels, because of the greater angle that the spoke entered the rim. While rims are often drilled with spoke holes angled laterally to compensate for the spoke often, they are not drilled with the spoke holes angled fore/aft to compensate for flange diameter.

Jobst Brandt tells us to correct the spoke line at both ends. I've done this on every wheel I've built at least at the hub flange. I've done it a few times at the nipple, but only a few wheels I've built had a visible bad angle.