New frame...threaded fork uncut?

[Nags&Ducs]

What's the standard here? I just received my Bob Jackson Audax End-End frame and started putting it together. Installed Record headset and crown race on fork. As I put the fork into the frame with headset cups installed, I noticed the threaded steerer is about 3/4 inch too long. Do frame builders generally leave a bit of steerer so there is some leeway on the headset stack height? Or is this an oversight? I'm thinking it was an oversight because the headtube length was shortened compared to the standard headtube length for my size frame due to the fact that I opted for Paul Racers. I was told that the Pauls raised the fork crown due to where the studs are placed for Paul Racers.

[ultraman6970]

My experience with custom stuff is that you tell the guy what headset are you going to put, and then the builder add more threads to the tube and cut the thing to match. As you said, if you use those paul things then you will need more steering tube, do a test fit and then cut the steering tube to what you need, not that hard just find an old headset threaded top, put it in... cut... file the edges and then remove the threaded to.

If the dude did not know how high you were going to run the stem, it makes sense to leave some steering tube in there, a lot of guys running like 2 or 3 cm of spacers in threaded headsets you know.

I would not make like that big of a deal, specially if you know how to fix it at home.

[rustychisel]

Prudent manufacturing, IMHO. The alternative - too short - would seriously ruin your day.

[Nags&Ducs]

My experience with custom stuff is that you tell the guy what headset are you going to put, and then the builder add more threads to the tube and cut the thing to match. As you said, if you use those paul things then you will need more steering tube, do a test fit and then cut the steering tube to what you need, not that hard just find an old headset threaded top, put it in... cut... file the edges and then remove the threaded to.

Yeah, I'll end up cutting it down. We had never discussed the specific headset I was planning to use. But to clarify, my intention to using Pauls raised the fork crown because of where the studs are located (higher on the fork legs as compared to canti studs). This in turn shortens the headtube as compared to non-Paul frames. I'm wondering if they forgot about the shorter headtube when cutting the steerer length.

[Nags&Ducs]

a lot of guys running like 2 or 3 cm of spacers in threaded headsets you know.


Really?? I've never seen that. Wow, I learn something new everyday!! :D

I might have to try that because I want the bars to be level with the seat since this is an audax/rando frame. I was originally thinking I would have to resort to using a Nitto Technomic stem (the only stem that I know that has long quill lengths), but I would prefer to add spacers and use a Cinelli 1A stem. :beer:

[Nags&Ducs]

Prudent manufacturing, IMHO. The alternative - too short - would seriously ruin your day.

So true Rusty!!!

[oldpotatoe]

Common to have the fork steerer long to accommodate a variety of headset stacks plus allow for spacers under the locknut for fit purposes.

Best tool to cut..add spacers to taste, cut..remember always easy to shorten, really hard to lengthen.

[Tickdoc]

measure twice, cut once:)

[oldpotatoe]

measure twice, cut once:)

"I've cut it three times and it's still too short"..:)

[David Kirk]

Typically a steerer is left long so that it can be cut to the exact length needed.

dave

[ultraman6970]

Oh yeah is being used like that since forever... :) GUys that dont want to cut the fork do that too aswell, or you get a for from a larger frame you can mix with a threadless headset and then use spacers and the top nut to press it down...

Here is an example...sorry for the large size :(

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-70cyZXJiuHQ/UmLP8M2l4cI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/--t8_8z5_mA/s1600/IMG_2739.JPG

Really?? I've never seen that. Wow, I learn something new everyday!! :D

I might have to try that because I want the bars to be level with the seat since this is an audax/rando frame. I was originally thinking I would have to resort to using a Nitto Technomic stem (the only stem that I know that has long quill lengths), but I would prefer to add spacers and use a Cinelli 1A stem. :beer:

[Gsinill]

This is how I got my CSi:

https://s22.postimg.org/9q7yhxsoh/P1020016.jpg

BTW, dig the color combo and whoever did the lug lining knew what they're doing...

[ColonelJLloyd]

I'd use spacers for now, dial in your fit and ride it a while. Unless you cannot get the bars low enough I'd imagine that little amount of steerer tube won't weigh any more than the equivalent of stem (ala Technomic).

[ColonelJLloyd]

BTW, dig the color combo and whoever did the lug lining knew what they're doing...

Can't say I agree. I've seen other pics of the OP's frame and the lug lining color is shades different than the panel color. It is what it is and doesn't affect how it rides, but Brits are kinda known for sloppy paint and from the other pics I've seen this is not an exception. That said, what's shown in that photo does look nice. But, I want to be clear I'm not poo-pooing the frame at all. From what I gather these are very affordable custom frames and with the recent beneficial exchange rate I imagine the OP is pleased all-in-all.

[Big Dan]

Yeah, see how it looks and the fit with the spacers.

[FlashUNC]

If this is a custom (and I'm assuming it is from Bob Jackson) why would you need excess steerer to dial in fit? Isn't that what the whole custom bit is for?

My Della Santa arrived with the fork already cut to length by Roland.

[ColonelJLloyd]

If this is a custom (and I'm assuming it is from Bob Jackson) why would you need excess steerer to dial in fit? Isn't that what the whole custom bit is for?

Theoretically, yes. But a friend of mine ordered a Mercian a couple years back and they basically don't do top tubes that aren't level and they were unfamiliar with low-trail design and declined to deviate from their standard. It's their prerogative. I think these old Brit outfits are pretty ingrained in their ways and I think of them less as full-stop custom builders and more "choose your ST, TT and CS length" shops.

[Hindmost]

...allow for spacers under the locknut for fit purposes...

Way back, threaded headsets were never installed this way. Now it is a viable option, especially as the variety of bike geometries, components, and riding styles have evolved.

[summilux]

I got a Sachs in 2011 that I asked to have a threaded fork. It came with a little extra length I think to accommodate the slightly different stack heights of available headsets. I wouldn't overdo the spacers coz that's just ugly. I put one in my Campy headset just to be on the safe side.

Just cut it.

[bikesickness]

Common to have the fork steerer long to accommodate a variety of headset stacks plus allow for spacers under the locknut for fit purposes.

Best tool to cut..add spacers to taste, cut..remember always easy to shorten, really hard to lengthen.

This is the best tool for this purpose as it provide a guide for the hacksaw blade and chases the threads when you are done with the cut and removing the tool.

[bikinchris]

There are too many variables when sizing a steer tube for a builder to decide how long it should be. I know I wouldn't want them to cut mine Since you are going to use Paul Racer brakes, don't you need a cable hanger? How thick is it? Do you want to use spacers below the hanger to allow easier access to the adjusting nut? Do you want to add a spacer to allow for stack height changes in the future? It's not only the stack height of the headset that determines the length of the steertube.

[Nags&Ducs]

dig the color combo and whoever did the lug lining knew what they're doing...

Can't say I agree. I've seen other pics of the OP's frame and the lug lining color is shades different than the panel color. It is what it is and doesn't affect how it rides, but Brits are kinda known for sloppy paint and from the other pics I've seen this is not an exception. That said, what's shown in that photo does look nice. But, I want to be clear I'm not poo-pooing the frame at all. From what I gather these are very affordable custom frames and with the recent beneficial exchange rate I imagine the OP is pleased all-in-all.


Yea, that pic shows a good job with the lug lining. Actually, For the most part, the lug lining was done very well, except for the lining in the headtube (which is what JLloyd is referring to). There are also a few spots of color bleed on the seat tube's barber pole stripes. It's only noticeable when you look really close.

WRT the different shade of yellow, I knew it was going to the case as I requested Golden Yellow for the headtube and barber poles, but the lining color options only had one shade of yellow, which was obviously different than the Golden Yellow. I suppose in hindsight I could've picked white or black lug lining throughout.

This pic shows the worst of the headtube liner:

[austex]

If you use a stack of spacers, do be sure that the expander wedge will sit below the bottom thread.

[Nags&Ducs]

If you use a stack of spacers, do be sure that the expander wedge will sit below the bottom thread.

I'm not sure I'm understanding. The little washer with the nub on the inner surface of the washer is what I'm assuming is the expander wedge, correct? What do mean "sit below the bottom thread"? Is it supposed to be below all the spacers or just below the top nut? Thanks!

[Nags&Ducs]

Close up of the worst example of the color bleed.

[Nags&Ducs]

Another area of bleed, just not as bad as the first pic:

[Nags&Ducs]

Lug lining done well, at least IMHO:

[Nags&Ducs]

Another lug lining:

[Nags&Ducs]

Frame waiting to be built. Waiting on Paul Racers, and bar/stem.

Can I get a Fight On!?!?!?:D

[PacNW2Ford]

I'm not sure I'm understanding. The little washer with the nub on the inner surface of the washer is what I'm assuming is the expander wedge, correct? What do mean "sit below the bottom thread"? Is it supposed to be below all the spacers or just below the top nut? Thanks!

The expander wedge is the wedge-shaped part at the bottom of the stem (unless you have one with a rarer cone-type expander). Since this wedges against the inside of the steerer tube to secure the stem, you want it bearing on the part of the steerer tube that is full thickness, e.g. where it isn't threaded.

[Louis]

Sheldon knows all:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/stems333-220.gif

[oldpotatoe]

Way back, threaded headsets were never installed this way. Now it is a viable option, especially as the variety of bike geometries, components, and riding styles have evolved.

How 'way back'? Not trying to argue but when I started this wrenching gig(1985), threadless didn't exist and putting spacers under the locknut on threaded headsets was common. Perhaps in the 70s era?

[Hindmost]

...Perhaps in the 70s era?

Yea, that is when we did whatever Eddy or Roger did. The innovations associated with the mountain bike brought in: lower top tubes, longer seatposts, rising stems. My point being that there was an increasing number of variables, including spacers, that would affect finished steer tube length.

[baldbones]

"The little washer with the nub on the inner surface of the washer is what I'm assuming is the expander wedge, correct? "

I think you are referring to part of the headset, this washer is very important, the threaded part of the steerer tube should have a recess for this or at worse be flattened out to stop it turning.

[maslow]

Frame waiting to be built. Waiting on Paul Racers, and bar/stem.



Can I get a Fight On!?!?!?:D



I must say, you've picked a lovely colour combination for your frame.