Help fitting a VO Pass hunters rack to BMC Monstercross?

[ANAO]

Making progress on the übermuter but completely stuck here.

1. Bars are going to be too low, what can I do?

2. The vertical rod is about an inch low. What can I do?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161110/f2d9063f4abd4e4caaac38b02145f628.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161110/b954354b86b5934f4f26fab861933171.jpg

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[cachagua]

Nice looking frame!

Presumably the rack is made to fit a Pass Hunter fork? I wonder if problems like this are pretty widespread. Any fork with giant tire clearance will inevitably have its crown higher above the brake bosses, I'd think.

Hate to give up on the VO, but there's got to be a rack that'd fit better. You might try calling Mike Varley and ask what racks he's had success with, he's super helpful. Check back in and let us know what he says, there's enough people with those bikes here that the information would be appreciated.

[charliedid]

I'd bend it to fit.

Even VO recommends it.

"Note: We've set the arm angle to fit the majority of bikes, but some frames with unusually large tire clearance may require bending the mounting arms down a little."

[ANAO]

I'd bend it to fit.

Even VO recommends it.

"Note: We've set the arm angle to fit the majority of bikes, but some frames with unusually large tire clearance may require bending the mounting arms down a little."
What, by hand?

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[dustyrider]

Can you get any slack by loosening the canti studs?

[ANAO]

Can you get any slack by loosening the canti studs?
I bent it by hand per above. Surprisingly easy.

I now think if I put enough nuts in front of the crown I can get it to sit far enough from the handlebars to mount the bag without stem/bar interference.

Will that work?

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[charliedid]

What, by hand?

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Well, I would bolt it to the fork at the crown and then map out what needs to be bent. I'd either do it then or put it in a vice depending on what needs bending. You have a work stand?

A good shop should be able to assist.

[dustyrider]

The black art, or zen, of bicycle maintenance!

[adamhell]

trade for something w adjustable struts? i just set this up on your old frame:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/adamleibow/BEE54906-FAC2-4E57-8BD2-FAB63382BA99_zpsnjqpzlmb.jpg

[ANAO]

That looks great AL. Btw I'm running a 140 on this sucka.

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[cachagua]

I feel dumb now. I was all set to suggest bending it, but thought everybody'd think I was crazy.

[fourflys]

have you given Mike at Black Mountain a call? That would be my first step as he might have tackled this very issue since he's the sole provider of his bikes (other than used, of course).

http://blackmtncycles.com/info/contact/

he's on FB as well...

[ANAO]

have you given Mike at Black Mountain a call? That would be my first step as he might have tackled this very issue since he's the sole provider of his bikes (other than used, of course).

http://blackmtncycles.com/info/contact/

he's on FB as well...

Nope! Bent it, as per above.

When I get home, I'm going to see if there's a way to get my stem lower and the rack further out in front of it. I think a nut should hold the rod in place.

[ColonelJLloyd]

You can certainly bend the tang/struts, but it doesn't look close. There are just compromises with off-the-shelf racks. You probably chose the rack for the integrated decaleur, but the rack should be level if not the front end just slightly higher and that's not the direction you'll be heading by bending the rack to fit that frame. I couldn't abide the setup below. I'd rather use the Nitto M18 with p-clamps or get tangs to reach the lowrider mounts. I've setup several bikes with that VO rack. Works well with some, others I've given up and used a different rack.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-m59rkeCe3i4/UGobOzy8S0I/AAAAAAAAL3g/0Ae4o9calhQ/s1600/P1050672.JPG

[charliedid]

[QUOTE=ColonelJLloyd;2074136]You can certainly bend the tang/struts, but it doesn't look close. There are just compromises with off-the-shelf racks. You probably chose the rack for the integrated decaleur, but the rack should be level if not the front end just slightly higher and that's not the direction you'll be heading by bending the rack to fit that frame. I couldn't abide the setup below. I'd rather use the Nitto M18 with p-clamps or get tangs to reach the lowrider mounts. I've setup several bikes with that VO rack. Works well with some, others I've given up and used a different rack.

Very good points.

At work we rarely ever recommend racks without first seeing the bike. Obviously if we know the bike and have experience with it, that will bolster our decision. Also why Waterford is so insistent on know what racks will be used before building bike and fork.

That said, I'm 95% certain I could make that scenario work :-)

Curious how far the OP got on this one.

[charliedid]

I feel dumb now. I was all set to suggest bending it, but thought everybody'd think I was crazy.

Nah, not dumb. Cautious

[ANAO]

[QUOTE=ColonelJLloyd;2074136]You can certainly bend the tang/struts, but it doesn't look close. There are just compromises with off-the-shelf racks. You probably chose the rack for the integrated decaleur, but the rack should be level if not the front end just slightly higher and that's not the direction you'll be heading by bending the rack to fit that frame. I couldn't abide the setup below. I'd rather use the Nitto M18 with p-clamps or get tangs to reach the lowrider mounts. I've setup several bikes with that VO rack. Works well with some, others I've given up and used a different rack.

Very good points.

At work we rarely ever recommend racks without first seeing the bike. Obviously if we know the bike and have experience with it, that will bolster our decision. Also why Waterford is so insistent on know what racks will be used before building bike and fork.

That said, I'm 95% certain I could make that scenario work :-)

Curious how far the OP got on this one.

I'll send updated (good) pictures after I go to work on it tonight. I have an 8:30 date with Zwift, so hopefully I can re-cable and get the rack mounted in the ~90 minutes I'll have after dinner.

[R3awak3n]

this bike is gonna look awesome

[icepick_trotsky]

trade for something w adjustable struts? i just set this up on your old frame:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/adamleibow/BEE54906-FAC2-4E57-8BD2-FAB63382BA99_zpsnjqpzlmb.jpg

What rack is that?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Not mine, but looks like the Nitto M18 with longer struts I referenced above.

[adamhell]

yep, it's a m18.

[ANAO]

this bike is gonna look awesome
Okay bike is all dialed and ready for the maiden voyage tomorrow. 30km to work and then 65km up to Rockland County for the weekend.

I took a page out of your book with the strap and really like how tight I can cinch it down!

I have 7cm drop which isn't my usual 9 or 10 but still constitutes a pretty races ride I think. I got my 569 top tube with a 130 stem so the 54 was definitely a better size than the 57 I traded Adam this week (thanks Adam!).

I'll make an official post in the gallery when I take better pictures tomorrow in the natural sunlight, but for now, how does this look?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161111/6a88bccc8d8a7aafd7ebdb8fdad175a6.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161111/86fbdcd90cca88b8213f2eec6764fd86.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161111/8793c39d6ccb9c56042b4ef66c957db0.jpg


1697930109

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[ANAO]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161111/f26eabc47ceff979e91329756ce98283.jpg

1697930110

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[charliedid]

Looks like it will basically work.

I didn't realize how much the decaleur would be affected by the bars. That said, what is the plan for this rig and do you absolutely require such an aggressive set up for it? Depending on the load you might find it handles better with a shorter and higher stem set-up.

[ANAO]

Looks like it will basically work.

I didn't realize how much the decaleur would be affected by the bars. That said, what is the plan for this rig and do you absolutely require such an aggressive set up for it? Depending on the load you might find it handles better with a shorter and higher stem set-up.

The majority of my training is done on my commute. Which is 30k each way to/from work. I would like to replicate my race position as closely as I can so I can get on my race bike with the proper neck/arm/back/core muscles already firing and not have to worry about any discomfort in a race other than leg suffering.

I rode today. I'll put up a recap in the gallery now.

[moose8]

What's the setup with the light? That looks slick. I have the same Lezyne but it takes up lots of handlebar space and might try something like that.

[ANAO]

What's the setup with the light? That looks slick. I have the same Lezyne but it takes up lots of handlebar space and might try something like that.

It's the velo orange light to rack mount (http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-rack-to-light-bracket.html) Seajaye (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2069279&postcount=2)suggested in one of my other ubermuter threads (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=195569&highlight=mount).

Whilst mounted, the light makes the mount wobble a lot when I, say, pick up the front wheel and then drop it from a height of 5 or 6 inches. No light needed this morning and I'm leaving work in 3 hours, so I will not have a chance to test the light until Monday or Tuesday next week.

[R3awak3n]

The only way for a rack to stay straight with such a long stem would probably be to get a custom rack. That said, doesn't seem like the bag is going anywhere so that's good. Clevel light mount too. Bike looks great.

[ANAO]

The only way for a rack to stay straight with such a long stem would probably be to get a custom rack. That said, doesn't seem like the bag is going anywhere so that's good. Clevel light mount too. Bike looks great.

Thank you to your shoulder strap solution, the thing is SNUG. It does squeak on bumps - what should I put in the decaleur interface to quiet the metal/metal rub? I will be removing the bag from the rack almost every time I use it to take my clothing into the bathroom to change.

[charliedid]

The majority of my training is done on my commute. Which is 30k each way to/from work. I would like to replicate my race position as closely as I can so I can get on my race bike with the proper neck/arm/back/core muscles already firing and not have to worry about any discomfort in a race other than leg suffering.

I rode today. I'll put up a recap in the gallery now.

Makes sense in that case.

[seajaye]

wishing that nitto made an M18 / mark's rack / whatever, but with stays for canti-posts. like their campee offerings..... but long to be able to be cut to length.

OP, glad it's functionally working out. hoping the bag doesn't do any sliding off but doesn't look like it will with it strapped down and such.

[ColonelJLloyd]

wishing that nitto made an M18 / mark's rack / whatever, but with stays for canti-posts. like their campee offerings..... but long to be able to be cut to length.

I believe the Nitto stuts can be bent to make this happen.

Below is one way, but I've seen a much cleaner setup.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Q4lnTsAKtTjfloAbx_yHxicgr7tn4si4zVMmjcoWn8G0GibVd3 pKNt9OtidElGPwZ8ATwEX-TjtEEhAm452bEadGdSchJIK4WZdfAcsqU1iXEHIewz1DZEV63M UohdL7bg=w5000-h5000

[ANAO]

QUICK FOLLOW UP QUESTION:

How do I get the giles berthoud 40mm fenders to fit? I tried installing the front. The whole thing seems to be listing right and the rods appear wayyy too long. So much so that it's affecting the skewer's cam actuation. Thanks!

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[ColonelJLloyd]

You have to cut the stays to fit.

Pics would help.

A proper fender installation isn't a quick job, especially the first time you do it.

http://support.velo-orange.com/#fenders.html

[etu]

The only way for a rack to stay straight with such a long stem would probably be to get a custom rack. That said, doesn't seem like the bag is going anywhere so that's good. Clevel light mount too. Bike looks great.

Thanks for this timely thread. I am working on a new front load set up for my commuter and I also don't have that much height between the wheels and the stem. Like OP, not sure I want a significanlty more upright position. Going the route of a custom bag and rack, as the usual load will be wide, but short (laptop, lunch in tupperware). GLW your project.

[R3awak3n]

QUICK FOLLOW UP QUESTION:

How do I get the giles berthoud 40mm fenders to fit? I tried installing the front. The whole thing seems to be listing right and the rods appear wayyy too long. So much so that it's affecting the skewer's cam actuation. Thanks!

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Cut the struts. I used a dremel with the rotary tool. Because its aluminum it slices theough it like butter

[ColonelJLloyd]

I used a dremel with the rotary tool.

If you wrench on bikes this is such a valuable tool. It's what I use to cut housing, trim excess bolt protrusions, etc.

[ANAO]

Cut the struts. I used a dremel with the rotary tool. Because its aluminum it slices theough it like butter

How short should it be? I.e. how much slack should I leave past the plastik brackets?

[R3awak3n]

How short should it be? I.e. how much slack should I leave past the plastik brackets?

I did not leave any past the plastic but that is not to say that a little bit is not ok. But make sure, measure twice cut once :)

found on the internet -

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Accessories/BERF13.jpg

[R3awak3n]

If you wrench on bikes this is such a valuable tool. It's what I use to cut housing, trim excess bolt protrusions, etc.


absolutely. Also used it to cut the mud flap screws that were sticking out way too much into the fender.

[ColonelJLloyd]

How short should it be? I.e. how much slack should I leave past the plastik brackets?

I wouldn't leave any. Mark the stay at the end of the plastic clip after you are confident the fender is where it should be. Yes, this is sometimes difficult when the skewer is in the way because you have to have the wheel inserted to know where the fender should be.

http://www.wallbike.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/sshardware_0.jpg

[ANAO]

Okay I got both fenders on, no tire rub on either one, and somehow managed to tighten both with skewers even with the extra rod.

Then, I heard some rubbing coming from the brakes. I let out the 3mm bolt on the back left an eighth of a turn and pop! The thing loosens entirely, taking a bunch of threading with it. In the process, the bike leaned up against the couch and the rear fender is out of whack.

But problem number 1: I have no rear brake. I think the female part of the adjusting area is completely stripped somehow. Now what?

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[ANAO]

Okay I got both fenders on, no tire rub on either one, and somehow managed to tighten both with skewers even with the extra rod.

Then, I heard some rubbing coming from the brakes. I let out the 3mm bolt on the back left an eighth of a turn and pop! The thing loosens entirely, taking a bunch of threading with it. In the process, the bike leaned up against the couch and the rear fender is out of whack.

But problem number 1: I have no rear brake. I think the female part of the adjusting area is completely stripped somehow. Now what?

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I moved the left rear brake over to the last hole and it gave me the tension I needed. Can this be a permanent fix or do I need to replace a part?

Fenders are great. The rear one makes a tinny sound when I hit a bump (any size) and it rubs when I'm out of the saddle.

I think I'll need to take a power tool to these to:
1. Shorten the rods
2. Drill holes for mud flaps
3. Drill a hole to attach the rear to the brake bridge.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161116/fd07e22645e5b36d19b2fbd9df40cfd1.jpg

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[ColonelJLloyd]

Looking at the bike as pictured, that front fender should be rotated counter-clockwise 2-3 spokes worth. Perhaps there is something that required you to mount it that way that I'm missing.

Nice fender line, especially for your first time. If anything, you could give yourself a little more clearance.

[oldpotatoe]

Looking at the bike as pictured, that front fender should be rotated counter-clockwise 2-3 spokes worth. Perhaps there is something that required you to mount it that way that I'm missing.

Nice fender line, especially for your first time. If anything, you could give yourself a little more clearance.

Agree, unless they are quick release type, getting a rock or stick stuck between fender and tire could cause some 'failures'..

[ANAO]

Looking at the bike as pictured, that front fender should be rotated counter-clockwise 2-3 spokes worth. Perhaps there is something that required you to mount it that way that I'm missing.

Nice fender line, especially for your first time. If anything, you could give yourself a little more clearance.

Thank you.

I think that it's forward like that because I attached the rack to the fender. Was I supposed to attach the fender by the crown instead? They gave me a little doo-dad hickey (see photo referenced above, by you (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2076563&postcount=41)) that has the large rubber washer, in the right of your picture.

I did not use it. Should I route the rack's long tubular mounting rod (the one I put through the crown) through THAT instead of the rack, which I just used a short M5 for?

I guess that would do it, if it is supposed to be lower. I was wondering why i still got a whole bunch of wet leaves on the downtube this morning.

Re: the back - I think I can get it to go higher if/when I drill the fender and yank it up to the brake bridge in the back.

Any suggestions for mud flaps?

[oddsaabs]

Looking at the bike as pictured, that front fender should be rotated counter-clockwise 2-3 spokes worth. Perhaps there is something that required you to mount it that way that I'm missing.

Nice fender line, especially for your first time. If anything, you could give yourself a little more clearance.

What he said.

Looks like maybe you attached the front fender at the rack using the hole that should be attaching it to the fork crown? The rack/fender connection is made after everything else is set up by drilling a hole in the top of the fender right under the mounting hole in the rack.

Other than that it looks great! Excellent job for the first time doing this!

[oddsaabs]

I think that it's forward like that because I attached the rack to the fender. Was I supposed to attach the fender by the crown instead? They gave me a little doo-dad hickey (see photo referenced above, by you (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2076563&postcount=41)) that has the large rubber washer, in the right of your picture.

I did not use it. Should I route the rack's long tubular mounting rod (the one I put through the crown) through THAT instead of the rack, which I just used a short M5 for?

I guess that would do it, if it is supposed to be lower. I was wondering why i still got a whole bunch of wet leaves on the downtube this morning.

There are two common ways to attach the fender to the fork crown. If the bottom of the crown has threaded eyelet then a M5 flat head or low profile bolt running from inside the fender to the eyelet works best, but it will have to be cut to length. The other is an L shaped bracket that mounts on the top of the fender and attaches to the front (or back) of the crown on the rack threaded mount.

Confused yet?

[ANAO]

There are two common ways to attach the fender to the fork crown. If the bottom of the crown has threaded eyelet then a M5 flat head or low profile bolt running from inside the fender to the eyelet works best, but it will have to be cut to length. The other is an L shaped bracket that mounts on the top of the fender and attaches to the front (or back) of the crown on the rack threaded mount.

Confused yet?

No, because Jim @ Bike Touring News sent me a hand-written note with my order explaining that he included an L bracket as many people need them for just such an application!

For once, I'm ahead of the tech.

I was planning on using that for the rear wheel. Here, the bottom of the crown is completely open. Can I just remove the end of the long tubular rod that is connecting the rack to the crown, slide my little piece referenced above on to that rod, screw an M5 upside down through the fender (much like it is now) and into that rod?

That seems it should work.

[oddsaabs]

I was planning on using that for the rear wheel. Here, the bottom of the crown is completely open. Can I just remove the end of the long tubular rod that is connecting the rack to the crown, slide my little piece referenced above on to that rod, screw an M5 upside down through the fender (much like it is now) and into that rod?

That's usually the ticket! You might need to adjust/trim the lenght of the L bracket for correct fender height and to clear the bottom of the headset. Another excellent use for the dremel tool.

What sort of attachment do you have at the BB for the rear fender?

[ANAO]

That's usually the ticket! You might need to adjust/trim the lenght of the L bracket for correct fender height and to clear the bottom of the headset. Another excellent use for the dremel tool.

What sort of attachment do you have at the BB for the rear fender?

Check out the photo gallery. It explains it better than I could:

http://blackmtncycles.com/frames/cross-frames/

[ColonelJLloyd]

You're at a bit of a disadvantage because the rack isn't really installed properly. I mean, it works, but it's not right.

As it is, I'd suggest doing what oddsaabs says. Remove the connection between the fender and the rack. Mount the fender at the fork crown area first.

Ideally, you would have a boss under the fork crown to simply mount the fender with a single M5 bolt. Next best is the daruma that connects the fender to the racks fork crown bolt. Behind that is an L bracket. And lastly is the dreaded sleeve clamp, yuck.

Maybe there is enough of the rack bolt protruding through the crown for the daruma to find purchase. I can't tell. Having the fender hug the fork crown and seat stay bridge (or closer than it is now) first and then setting fender line will give you more clearance than you have now.

Two fixed mounting points at the stays and fork crown would be better than two at the stays and at the rack, IMO.

I have some extra L brackets I can send you if you need. I try and avoid them. I am not familiar with what Berthoud includes hardware wise. I have spare darumas, brackets, etc.

Did you look through the Velo Orange instructions I linked on the previous page? Here's (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/680064-vo-fender-install-directions-horrendous-how-do-i-get-these-things.html)another resource.

Did your front fender come dimpled to accommodate the fork crown? If so, fantastic. If not, it's really best to do this yourself. See below.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/images/products/Accessories/bertffhole.jpg

[ANAO]

You're at a bit of a disadvantage because the rack isn't really installed properly. I mean, it works, but it's not right.

As it is, I'd suggest doing what oddsaabs says. Remove the connection between the fender and the rack. Mount the fender at the fork crown area first.

Ideally, you would have a boss under the fork crown to simply mount the fender with a single M5 bolt. Next best is the daruma that connect the fender to the racks fork crown bolt. Behind that is an L bracket. And lastly is the dreaded sleeve clamp, yuck.

Maybe there is enough of the rack bolt protruding through the crown for the daruma to find purchase. I can't tell. Having the fender hug the fork crown and seat stay bridge (or closer than it is now) first and then setting fender line will give you more clearance than you have now.

Two fixed mounting points with the stays and the crown would be better than two at the stays and at the rack, IMO.

I have some extra L brackets I can send you if you need. I try and avoid them. Did you look through the Velo Orange instructions I linked on the previous page?

Thank you!

I'm going to try to just use the L bracket on the back for now and work with that piece (Daruma, you called it?) by the fork. I hope it's long enough for the M5 to grab onto. I think it should be. Will report back tonight or tomorrow morning.

By the way, the front is not the one that's giving me the noise. It's the rear. I need to drill that fender post-haste to L-bracket it onto the brake bridge.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Yes, this is what's called a daruma bolt. The downward pulling force by the fender secures this (holds it tight) against the rack's mounting bolt. The length of a VO daruma should be plenty long. Again, not familar with Berthoud's. There has been once instance in more than a dozen where I needed a longer daruma. It was on a Soma Wolverine (really long A-C fork) that was running Switchback Hills instead of 700x42. The solution I used was a coupler nut. I needed it done that day and the big box home store didn't stock that in metric, so I tapped the closest SAE size. I should have used Loctite. I lost it after about 150 miles on the C&O. Still had the front rack connection, though, so I made it home fine if not for a little rattling.

Regarding the leaves, yep. The most important area for fenders on a bike is pretty much the part you missing now by rotating the front forward. Doh! Rotating it back like you plan and installing a mudflap that nearly touches the ground with keep your BB as dry as can be achieved. You can make your own from all sorts of materials. On my next fender install I might try these (http://www.rainydaybiking.com/Basic-Bicycle-Mud-Flap-p/110.htm). They're long, look light and stiff enough and are reflective. The flexible plastic like that on the front and back of a spiral notebook is a good material if you make your own.

http://store.velo-orange.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/750x750/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/e/fe-0030.jpg

[ANAO]

I mounted my bike to the roof and I estimate I can rotate the fender counter-clockwise 5". Therefore, I will get to work.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161120/f5501eebbf1e88de5064a5a307c3db7a.jpg