President Donald J Trump

[ANAO]

https://gm1.ggpht.com/2jcR-dJlX66go1tvdYLZe-ohKxtJMVinQHWZB6SxLmfnow1HncQi1tXVQItXOR_qd_LYjQEh nXw52gYpwx2hzyEOq5wvEdFjZKLT5RFVJ3Kw8A0ar8iRwarw-O7c45O8tRCKS-mxpSFhpCFeAlj-3AX_fBJ-aVFZw0G85t3mptjLk2bwuJbeEjUwngqRVHykrozLXGaU3K25Ul We12_QU1BPLskSfR1yyO1AfxGegTLj5BWuHdbc26ybsrFdp8eM 1MDxY_3Ae8N-ioeEGgU3cdOG_0FMmhsanqvCGMWLRM83U7ljMzqM-xCjURw0dwGUcgrFNKBiakCYQeguQGkzCsf4DACTFQb17lo318X O8-8SctIyUdIhS0gUbbItMyl42o2qm7yE67pq37ivnVZ1eSIO7yfY-azldy7pmbJr66PGvSXgFoluFk8IyEdolXjAp2Ig9GDW9B_3jZJ kbl0zc3PcwnLpJAed_MgxA6WlbPXeOcxc8E0TeFLvTbRuJcVDl lAye9fmXpT1H3JNwLMWHeYh9yFAhFzLww3W1LvCfE6uAskm42C 3lObYzAe8CznaJWvaILhVWLSG58DwwKg9rraTnSfCbUlxtf8si aJh8wr4jqMQBUIX8Zy859tkKtLRhCN5r6MkQf1nt7fqcWPiY8u AqPvUWnp6GxsSHBLJp2sfTQiuyBhImhGKRZnfBrMfgs_raNrz0 gSKaw=w1600-h804-l75-ft

[MattTuck]

Exciting times, indeed.

Not surprised by the outcome.


This thread will probably be shut down, post haste. But while it's open, I'll give my opinion. Many people are unhappy with their situation. Real incomes have stagnated for big swaths of the population for decades. They have no real faith in their representation by the Washington establishment, and this was a chance to send a message that they expect better. If Bernie had been the nominee instead of Clinton, and was up against Jeb Bush, I bet Bernie would have won. The level of disaffection with Washington DC is immense.

[Schmed]

.... The level of disaffection with Washington DC is immense.

Yes - we can overanalyze things to death, but this seems to be the overwhelming sentiment that resulted in Bernie and Donald's popularity (and DJT's eventual election). I get it.

[benb]

Level of disaffection with Washington is immense but at least some of that disaffection should have been directed at Republicans. It seems like most people blamed Obama for the Republican Congress' failings though.

I think some of the doom and gloom is probably overwrought. We still have our system of checks and balances. Trump will probably get to enact more of his policies then we might expect but there are still checks and balances.

I think most of us can probably find something we can be OK with in his platform even if a lot of it is pretty distasteful for a lot of us. As long as the economy doesn't tank and we all lose our jobs I am going to be fine with the tax cut that is expected to come. Some of his nationalist/isolationist foreign policy statements resonate a bit with me as well for some reason. It really depends on what he does though.. if he steps us back from being involved all over the world and sticking our neck out to try and fix every little issue that other countries should be fixing I am theoretically cool with that.

My perception is the democrats have been somewhat less petty about ridiculous investigations and obstructionism than the Republicans have been, I hope they continue that. I will be disappointed if the Democrats in Congress are as obnoxious under Trump as the Republicans have been under Obama. That stuff has got to change.

I am fine with "No more Clintons and no more Bushes in the white house" too. Voted for Bernie in the primaries and then voted somewhat less enthusiastically for Hillary yesterday. My wife was in the same boat. We were probably not actually that cool with some of Bernie's policies though, we were voting for the outside the same way so many Republicans voted for Trump as the outsider.

[unterhausen]

there are no checks and balances. They will pack the judiciary and control congress and the presidency. It's going to be a tough ride.

[Vientomas]

If the populace wanted change - why were so many incumbents voted back to the House and Senate?

[eddief]

in jeans in Michelle Obama's vegetable garden.

[malcolm]

Level of disaffection with Washington is immense but at least some of that disaffection should have been directed at Republicans. It seems like most people blamed Obama for the Republican Congress' failings though.

I think some of the doom and gloom is probably overwrought. We still have our system of checks and balances. Trump will probably get to enact more of his policies then we might expect but there are still checks and balances.

I think most of us can probably find something we can be OK with in his platform even if a lot of it is pretty distasteful for a lot of us. As long as the economy doesn't tank and we all lose our jobs I am going to be fine with the tax cut that is expected to come. Some of his nationalist/isolationist foreign policy statements resonate a bit with me as well for some reason. It really depends on what he does though.. if he steps us back from being involved all over the world and sticking our neck out to try and fix every little issue that other countries should be fixing I am theoretically cool with that.

My perception is the democrats have been somewhat less petty about ridiculous investigations and obstructionism than the Republicans have been, I hope they continue that. I will be disappointed if the Democrats in Congress are as obnoxious under Trump as the Republicans have been under Obama. That stuff has got to change.

I am fine with "No more Clintons and no more Bushes in the white house" too. Voted for Bernie in the primaries and then voted somewhat less enthusiastically for Hillary yesterday. My wife was in the same boat. We were probably not actually that cool with some of Bernie's policies though, we were voting for the outside the same way so many Republicans voted for Trump as the outsider.

I too was a Bernie supporter and I think he was the only dem that could have beaten any of the republicans but the powers that be in the DNC worked to assure that would never happen

You can't lay this solely at the republicans feet. Both parties are self serving and exist only to support the established party powers, see the treatment of Bernie. It's a mess because both parties are a mess. This vote was about everyday folks that are tired of politics as they are.

[Schmed]

in jeans in Michelle Obama's vegetable garden.

Ha! Not going to happen.

If the tables were turned this morning... I'm thankful not to have the image of Bill Clinton in his robe in the White House garden.

[Tony T]

"Dewey Defeats Truman"
http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697930017&stc=1&d=1478680191

[kramnnim]

I didn't think he had a chance.

Can't wait for my Facebook feed to go back to normal.

[redir]

The level of disaffection with Washington is largely due to an ignorant public believing in what ever they want to hear and having many resources to feed them with it. I mean sure there are problems but nothing like what Alex Jones would have you believe, for example.

[MattTuck]

If the populace wanted change - why were so many incumbents voted back to the House and Senate?

Not sure if this was rhetorical or not, but a couple thoughts.

1) Not sure which races were really up for grabs. Obviously, some are more in play than others.
2) The amount of money spent on these races is out of control. In 2010, total election spending for Colorado's 6th District was around 750,000. This year, more than 17 Million. Due to incumbent's ability to fundraise, they have a pretty big advantage.
3) I'm extremely bummed out that Russ Feingold (a true reformer) lost his senate bid.

[trener1]

Why is everyone so afraid to call a spade a spade.
This was based on nothing more (and nothing less) then hatred and racism.

[sales guy]

I'm terrified for many reasons.

Firstly the Supreme Court. Every single thing they've done to move the country into reality and the 21st century will be gone.
So my brother in law who just got married to his boyfriend of 7 years, that's gone.
If a woman has a miscarriage, jail time. Oh, and a funeral for the fetus.
Roe V Wade is gonna be gone.
No immigrants into the country. Unless of course it's to build another Trump building cheaply.
Guaranteed he won't release his taxes even tho it's law that presidents do.
The stock market is gonna take a massive hit which means everyone's 401k and retirements will take a hit.
His opponents, jailed.
The 14 women who've come forward over sexual assault charges, sued and then some.
All the cases against him, just watch they won't happen.

He is beyond corrupt now. Just wait till he's in office groping interns.

I work with people in Britain. They can't believe what happened over Brexit. They are beside themselves over this.

[fignon's barber]

I think Hilary will have to sell her new Zipp wheels and move back to used Mavic Open Pros now that the "donation" money will dry up.

[unterhausen]

I don't think people wanted radical change. My worst fears are that's what they are likely to get. Much of rural America is fully dependent on government checks to keep their communities afloat. Speaker Ryan wants to gut those programs, Medicaid and SSDI. Could get dicey in the hinterlands.

The polarization of the electorate and the parties is such that you can't just vote out an incumbent, the opponent supports totally different policies.

[sales guy]

Why is everyone so afraid to call a spade a spade.
This was based on nothing more (and nothing less) then hatred and racism.


Agreed!!! Just look at what happened at polling places! Guns pulled on people who weren't voting Trump.
People were Maced.
2 or 3 people were killed in LA at a polling place.

It was all about hatred. And he opened the jar and then broke it.

I had someone draw on me yesterday when I went to vote. And I live in a 96% white town! All cause the person was removing Clinton signs and replacing them with Trump ones.

The amount of hatred is deplorable. And there is nothing we can do now.

[William]

I

...You can't lay this solely at the republicans feet. Both parties are self serving and exist only to support the established party powers, see the treatment of Bernie. It's a mess because both parties are a mess. This vote was about everyday folks that are tired of politics as they are.

This.

Sanders and Trumps getting as far as they did is because people are tired of the self serving party politics. People wanted change from the status quo. You can't blame this solely on "hatred and Racism". Sure their are fringe groups on both sides that run that way, but it isn't the majority.





William

[MattTuck]

Why is everyone so afraid to call a spade a spade.
This was based on nothing more (and nothing less) then hatred and racism.

Really? Most of the battleground states that went for Trump this year voted for Obama in 2008. Seems like they were less concerned with race, and more concerned with "Change [they] can believe in." Why do you think it is different this time, and that they are motivated by racism this time, but not last time?

I haven't looked at the numbers in detail, but for me to accept the premise that it is pervasive racism, I'd have to be convinced that the turnout of voters was really different this time around. Both candidates were white.

[Tony]

This.

Sanders and Trumps getting as far as they did is because people are tired of the self serving party politics. People wanted change from the status quo. You can't blame this solely on "hatred and Racism". Sure their are fringe groups on both sides that run that way, but it isn't the majority.

William

Agree!

[alancw3]

I too was a Bernie supporter and I think he was the only dem that could have beaten any of the republicans but the powers that be in the DNC worked to assure that would never happen

You can't lay this solely at the republicans feet. Both parties are self serving and exist only to support the established party powers, see the treatment of Bernie. It's a mess because both parties are a mess. This vote was about everyday folks that are tired of politics as they are.

+1 the democrats would have been better served with bernie sanders imho. but that is not what the clinton political machine wanted or the democratic party.

say what you will but the america people have spoken! i have to give credit to dt. not only did he have the beat the democrats but also the gop. the people of the country want change and they saw it through either dt or bs. i think he spent like one quarter of what hillary clinton did on the campaign.

the average people of england spoke up with the brexit vote. now the american people spoke up with the presidential vote. next the french vote for a new president and then germany. i really think the average person is so tired of what has happened in their countries over that past twenty years that it is almost a revolution of the common folk. just my humble opinion.

[verticaldoug]

This.

Sanders and Trumps getting as far as they did is because people are tired of the self serving party politics. People wanted change from the status quo. You can't blame this solely on "hatred and Racism". Sure their are fringe groups on both sides that run that way, but it isn't the majority.

William

I have to agree with William. It all started with the DNC having the super delegates and the insiders trying to turn Hillary into a coronation instead of a nomination. When the electorate feels you stopped listening to them and are lecturing them, it goes pear shaped very fast.

[stephenmarklay]

This.

Sanders and Trumps getting as far as they did is because people are tired of the self serving party politics. People wanted change from the status quo. You can't blame this solely on "hatred and Racism". Sure their are fringe groups on both sides that run that way, but it isn't the majority.





William

I think this is true. But now we have gone from self serving parties to a self serving president. Guaranteed that he will try and make his position line his pockets and stroke his ego. In my option corruption will get worse not better.

[denapista]

Trump lit the Racial fear fire with high octane for votes, and it worked.
I live in Pasadena and ride in the Rose Bowl hills, and there are so many lawns with Trump support signage. SCARY!

HRC shot herself in the foot with her snake ways. She just seemed so much of a snake for me, and the polls proved it. People weren't confident in voting for her. I'm glad the Clintons are out of there! They've done so much harm to the lower class that it's not even funny.

[William]

I have to agree with William. It all started with the DNC having the super delegates and the insiders trying to turn Hillary into a coronation instead of a nomination. When the electorate feels you stopped listening to them and are lecturing them, it goes pear shaped very fast.

Very true. In RI primary the State voted for Sanders, but the SD gave it to Hillary anyway. When people feel like their votes don't count and the Party elite are going to do what they want people are going to get riled up.





William

[William]

I think this is true. But now we have gone from self serving parties to a self serving president. Guaranteed that he will try and make his position line his pockets and stroke his ego. In my option corruption will get worse not better.

That's your opinion and I can't say you will be right or wrong...only time will tell. If it turns out to be true we'll have our chance to vote him out next cycle.





William

[MattTuck]

That's your opinion and I can't say you will be right or wrong...only time will tell. If it turns out to be true we'll have our chance to vote him out next cycle.



William

If he does some of what he says, Congress isn't going to be very happy with him. I think the political parties may not trust him very much.

He's publicly stated that these are some of his policy goals.

Propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress
Propose a 5-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists
Propose a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying foreign governments
Propose a ban on foreign lobbyists raising money in American elections

[alancw3]

If he does some of what he says, Congress isn't going to be very happy with him. I think the political parties may not trust him very much.

He's publicly stated that these are some of his policy goals.

Propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress
Propose a 5-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists
Propose a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying foreign governments
Propose a ban on foreign lobbyists raising money in American elections

if he succeeds in doing these things he may actually be the best president we have ever had!

[William]

If he does some of what he says, Congress isn't going to be very happy with him. I think the political parties may not trust him very much.

He's publicly stated that these are some of his policy goals.

Propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress
Propose a 5-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists
Propose a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying foreign governments
Propose a ban on foreign lobbyists raising money in American elections


Well, as one who is tired of career politicians...I don't have an issue with that. Getting it done will be a whole other ball of wax...but the people are riled up so we'll see.




William

[redir]

A lot of people want change but they were duped into thinking that they are going to get it. One of the greatest con's ever really.

[William]

A lot of people want change but they were duped into thinking that they are going to get it. One of the greatest con's ever really.

Again, we'll see. We'll have our chance in four years to dumps him or affirm him.




Will

[eddief]

401K only taking minor hit so far...

[jds108]

A lot of people want change but they were duped into thinking that they are going to get it. One of the greatest con's ever really.

Not sure that I'd agree with that. It is/was spectacularly easy to find fault in either Hillary or Trump. The neoliberal (and neocon!) policies of the last 40 years have gutted the middle class. Hillary offered more of the same, whereas Trump offers something different as best as anybody can tell thus far.


For anybody that has a deep fear of what's to come now that that the election is over, I'm interested to know specifically what they think is going to happen that they're so worried about. Is it a world war? Collapse of the economy? Civil war? Riots? Legalization (or just increased incidence) of sexism and/or bigotry?

[Tony T]

Again, we'll see. We'll have our chance in four years to dumps him or affirm him.
Will

DNC has 3 years to find the right candidate.
They need to look for someone who is not a senior citizen


…..I hope they don't choose Chelsea.

[Corso]

DNC has 3 years to find the right candidate.
They need to look for someone who is not a senior citizen


…..I hope they don't choose Chelsea.

I hope they don’t choose Warren!

She represents my state, and is a walking hypocrite. She never held an elected position before she won the senate seat, but Trump was an “unqualified devil” for doing basically what she did.

I hope now she gets her blue or red jacket wearing self back to doing what she was elected to do, not being Hillary’s attack dog. All that time she spent campaigning for clinton, the citizens of Massachusetts will never get back.

[Mikej]

401K only taking minor hit so far...

Not possible, 401k balances are still from 3pm yesterday- check today at 3 pm

[Steve in SLO]

I had a dream last night that I had bought a gun to defend my family against roving bands of Trump-supporting 'militia' who were looting neighborhoods and kidnapping "undesirables".
Weird. I hope.

[Bob Ross]

i really think the average person is so tired of what has happened in their countries over that past twenty years that it is almost a revolution of the common folk.

I'm curious: What exactly has happened in our country (at least) in the past 20 years that the "average person" would grow tired of, and that electing an outsider would fix?

I mean, in the past 20 years my salary has increased substantially, my retirement fund increased substantially (despite a significant blip ~8 years ago), my home equity has improved substantially, and my quality of life -- as well as especially that of my LGBT friends -- has improved dramatically.

And if I'd never read the Op-Ed pages of a newspaper during those 20 years I probably wouldn't even have a clue about what else to grow tired of; the only metrics to determine that would be my own personal success. So am I not "average"?


For anybody that has a deep fear of what's to come now that that the election is over, I'm interested to know specifically what they think is going to happen that they're so worried about. Is it a world war? Collapse of the economy? Civil war? Riots? Legalization (or just increased incidence) of sexism and/or bigotry?

All of the above (although I think World War and Civil War are pretty far down the list). Mostly worried about Roe v. Wade being rescinded, and the Supreme Court getting stacked with ultra-conservative judges who want to return America to the 1950s. My wife and I are honestly terrified that electing Trump essentially legitimized Being An Asshole To Your Fellow Man.

[texbike]

HRC shot herself in the foot with her snake ways. She just seemed so much of a snake for me, and the polls proved it. People weren't confident in voting for her.

^This! Trump should have been easily defeated. However, Hillary was a terrible candidate. Fake, disingenuous, corrupt. I'm a liberal and could barely bring myself to vote for her. I felt dirty every time I heard her speak.

She has the resume, but just isn't likable. It's the same reason Obama kicked her ass in 2008.

Texbike

[sparky33]

Thomas Friedman's latest (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/opinion/were-near-the-breaking-point.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur) articulates it better than I ever could.

[BdaGhisallo]

the average people of england spoke up with the brexit vote. now the american people spoke up with the presidential vote. next the french vote for a new president and then germany. i really think the average person is so tired of what has happened in their countries over that past twenty years that it is almost a revolution of the common folk. just my humble opinion.


I think this it it in a nutshell.

[malcolm]

I'm terrified for many reasons.

Firstly the Supreme Court. Every single thing they've done to move the country into reality and the 21st century will be gone.
So my brother in law who just got married to his boyfriend of 7 years, that's gone.
If a woman has a miscarriage, jail time. Oh, and a funeral for the fetus.
Roe V Wade is gonna be gone.
No immigrants into the country. Unless of course it's to build another Trump building cheaply.
Guaranteed he won't release his taxes even tho it's law that presidents do.
The stock market is gonna take a massive hit which means everyone's 401k and retirements will take a hit.
His opponents, jailed.
The 14 women who've come forward over sexual assault charges, sued and then some.
All the cases against him, just watch they won't happen.

He is beyond corrupt now. Just wait till he's in office groping interns.

I work with people in Britain. They can't believe what happened over Brexit. They are beside themselves over this.

I agree for me the biggest fear is the supreme court. There may be three new ones over 1 term.

I don't think things will go back. Gay rights and Roe v Wade will continue and this is where our duty as citizens comes into play. If we don't sit around and let it happen it won't happen. I think the bigger problem is just not moving forward on these issues.

Lets face it Trump like everyone before him will not keep most of his promises. He won't jail Hillary, I doubt a wall will be built, he will work to dismantle obamacare but likely some of it or some form of reform will remain. If things are moving in a direction we don't like, organize, write letters go to washington.

[denapista]

I think people are fearing another Regan Era. Maybe some of you young kids didn't live through the 80's and Ronald Regan's reign on this country...

I don't think people are fearing a civil war, just an idiot in office without a single political bone in his body. Imagine that guy resolving foreign issues and conflict. He's not too far removed from a damn TV game show, I mean... What other president goes on Twitter rants?

[bcroslin]

This will likely be my last post here in the forum. Lots of life changes about to happen spurred by this disaster. Got lots of work to get things in order to finally make my escape from the south.

Thanks for everything paceline. Everyone be safe and keep the rubber down.

[Ken Robb]

Not sure if this was rhetorical or not, but a couple thoughts.

1) Not sure which races were really up for grabs. Obviously, some are more in play than others.
2) The amount of money spent on these races is out of control. In 2010, total election spending for Colorado's 6th District was around 750,000. This year, more than 17 Million. Due to incumbent's ability to fundraise, they have a pretty big advantage.
3) I'm extremely bummed out that Russ Feingold (a true reformer) lost his senate bid.

Let me suggest that voters may want change but they are also aware that seniority is VERY important in deciding what senator or representative gets an important/powerful position in their respective houses. Pork barrel politics being the norm these voters are loathe to dump their own incumbents. Maybe? :-)

[sales guy]

If he does some of what he says, Congress isn't going to be very happy with him. I think the political parties may not trust him very much.

He's publicly stated that these are some of his policy goals.

Propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress
Propose a 5-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists
Propose a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying foreign governments
Propose a ban on foreign lobbyists raising money in American elections


Does no one see the hypocrisy in this? Especially the last one???

HE LOBBIED FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS FOR MONEY!!!!

He did it over a dozen times. There were emails posted online from people in Australia, England, France and more who were asked to give him money for his campaign.

And none of the other things he listed will ever happen. An Amendment? REALLY? 2/3's of the House and Senate and then the rest of the country agreeing to this? Never happen. They love their cake and eating it too.

[Joxster]

How long before Trump bankrupts the US?

[malcolm]

How long before Trump bankrupts the US?

Don't kid yourself, look at the national debt we're already bankrupt. Unlikely Trump will do it unless he can sell us to China for a profit.

[jwess1234]

Well this is a sad reflection on the country. Educated coastal liberals approving pot are going to give up and and get high to blur out the sadness, pain, and embarrassment.

Hold on to your bikes boys--whether we're entering a barter economy or not, imported carbon could become much more expensive...

[Tony T]

Clinton just gave her concession speech. (Obama to speak soon. I would love to be a fly on the wall when then meet tomorrow).
I'm no fan of Trump, however, I'm happy to see the Clintons finally out of National politics.

[sales guy]

For my wife and I, we've lost a bunch with the markets so far.

Add into it I have a preexisting condition now, I won't get healthcare thru private insurance. And then since I have a kid from a previous marriage, my wife will get dinged huge to just get her on her insurance.

A couple friends who voted for Trump just realized they won't have insurance now. They were pissed at the costs but him and his wife have preexisting conditions. Welp, good luck on insurance now!

People don't realize what they did. which is exactly what happened in Britain. Everyone there figured they would get their billions back right away. And they aren't getting jack squat. They have one polls over there asking if people would do it again, and over 75% said no. Which is why Parliament is now involved. And People are hoping Parliament will veto it.

I work with people daily in England and they can't believe what America did. They can't believe we followed their path. And the people I deal with, they voted to stay in the EU. Cause they got hit huge with the Pound devaluation. We will feel it too soon.

[myette10]

If the populace wanted change - why were so many incumbents voted back to the House and Senate?

bingo

[93legendti]

Clinton just gave her concession speech. (Obama to speak soon. I would love to be a fly on the wall when then meet tomorrow).
I'm no fan of Trump, however, I'm happy to see the Clintons finally out of National politics.

Wait till the trial balloons go up for drafting Chelsea to run for the Senate...

[Tony T]

For my wife and I, we've lost a bunch with the markets so far.

Add into it I have a preexisting condition now, I won't get healthcare thru private insurance. And then since I have a kid from a previous marriage, my wife will get dinged huge to just get her on her insurance.

A couple friends who voted for Trump just realized they won't have insurance now. They were pissed at the costs but him and his wife have preexisting conditions. Welp, good luck on insurance now!


I don't understand the loss you had with the markets. Dow is ⬆ 175 today and 300% since 2008.
I also don't understand your comment regarding insurance with a pre-existing condition. With the ACA, you are required to already be covered. Insurance companies can't drop you due to a past condition. Now, I do think that it will cost more for health insurance for those that will keep the plan the got with the ACA

[Tony T]

Wait till the trial balloons go up for drafting Chelsea to run for the Senate...

I'm actually afraid that that will happen. Will it be another Bush or Clinton choice in 2024?

[93legendti]

I'm actually afraid that that will happen. Will it be another Bush or Clinton choice in 2024?

Who knows. One would hope the Bush/Clinton dynasties have been vanquished...
I've also heard people talking about drafting Michelle O...

[Tony T]

Who knows. One would hope the Bush/Clinton dynasties have been vanquished...
I've also heard people talking about drafting Michelle O...

Michelle O. has no experience in Public office :)
Maybe they can draft Zuckerberg :):)

[zmudshark]

Wait till the trial balloons go up for drafting Chelsea to run for the Senate...Or Don Jr for mayor...

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

there are no checks and balances. They will pack the judiciary and control congress and the presidency. It's going to be a tough ride.

This. And the Dems have one tool, the filibuster. Gonna be a lot of late nights. Gonna be a long 4 years.

[sales guy]

I don't understand the loss you had with the markets. Dow is ⬆ 175 today and 300% since 2008.
I also don't understand your comment regarding insurance with a pre-existing condition. With the ACA, you are required to already be covered. Insurance companies can't drop you due to a past condition. Now, I do think that it will cost more for health insurance for those that will keep the plan the got with the ACA

We don't have everything in one index. And not all are up.

The ACA will be gone in January. So once thats gone, private coverage won't have the clause of preexisting conditions. So with it gone, since I have one, I won't be eligible for coverage. The same as a friend with HIV and one with Diabetes.

[thunderworks]

Exciting times, indeed.

Not surprised by the outcome.


This thread will probably be shut down, post haste. But while it's open, I'll give my opinion. Many people are unhappy with their situation. Real incomes have stagnated for big swaths of the population for decades. They have no real faith in their representation by the Washington establishment, and this was a chance to send a message that they expect better. If Bernie had been the nominee instead of Clinton, and was up against Jeb Bush, I bet Bernie would have won. The level of disaffection with Washington DC is immense.

Your description of the malaise is on point . . . but to pick an inexperienced demagogue who appeals to our basest fears, for the most powerful job in the known universe, is short-sighted in the extreme. His pandering to the least educated, most disenfranchised part of our culture is frightening.

[Tony T]

We don't have everything in one index. And not all are up.

The ACA will be gone in January. So once thats gone, private coverage won't have the clause of preexisting conditions. So with it gone, since I have one, I won't be eligible for coverage. The same as a friend with HIV and one with Diabetes.

The only way I can see an effect due to a pre-existing condition is for the people that will moving off of an employers plan at the same time that the ACA is repealed (even then they have COBRA for 18 months). The ACA required everyone to already be covered. An insurance company can't drop you for a condition that they were aware of when they wrote the policy, as it is now not pre-existing.

[PQJ]

We don't have everything in one index. And not all are up.

The ACA will be gone in January. So once thats gone, private coverage won't have the clause of preexisting conditions. So with it gone, since I have one, I won't be eligible for coverage. The same as a friend with HIV and one with Diabetes.

The ACA will not be gone in January. Or February. It's been implemented and can't simply be un-implemented by the new fuhrer. Plus, Republicans haven't put forward anything (of actual substance) to replace it with, and some of the things it has done have popular support (elimination of lifetime caps, preexisting conditions, coverage for kids till 26) and won't be undone. What will happen is what would have happened anyway - ie, introduction of reforms to make it work. Perhaps now that Republicans own the problem, in essence, we'll get some buy-in from them.

[malcolm]

The only way I can see an effect due to a pre-existing condition is for the people that will moving off of an employers plan at the same time that the ACA is repealed (even then they have COBRA for 18 months). The ACA required everyone to already be covered. An insurance company can't drop you for a condition that they were aware of when they wrote the policy, as it is now not pre-existing.

This.
I don't think you are going to lose your existing coverage. By definition if you are currently covered it's not pre-existing.

The doom and gloom folks are out in force. Stirring up more emotion and scaring people creating more divisiveness. Lets wait and see, I suspect more will stay the same than changes. If there are changes going in the direction we as a populace don't like become involved and don't allow it to happen.

[Joxster]

How many "personal projects" will be pushed through as "government projects" and the electorate will pay the costs and Trump will take the profits?

[93legendti]

I see lots of denial.

[azrider]

Yeah.......it's the Republicans that are so full of hate :rolleyes: GMAFB

HILLARY SUPPORTERS BURN AMERICAN FLAG, RIOT, THREATEN TO KILL TRUMP AFTER LOSING ELECTION

http://www.infowars.com/hillary-supporters-burn-american-flag-riot-threaten-to-kill-trump-after-losing-election/

http://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/091116threats.jpg

[sparky33]

Clinton just gave her concession speech. (Obama to speak soon. I would love to be a fly on the wall when then meet tomorrow).

I plan on watching the SNL reenactment/parody of this meeting.

I've also heard people talking about drafting Michelle O...

Let's not subject her to that. Campaign life appears to beat the humanity out of its participants.

full of hate :rolleyes:

There's a bad apple in every bunch. Hate is not a solution.

[jwess1234]

I think you need to look at the comparative proportionality of respective sentiment on both sides--though I suppose come January we live in a world of false facts and anecdote, and maybe I'm in the minority of those who live by facts.

Yeah.......it's the Republicans that are so full of hate :rolleyes: GMAFB

HILLARY SUPPORTERS BURN AMERICAN FLAG, RIOT, THREATEN TO KILL TRUMP AFTER LOSING ELECTION

http://www.infowars.com/hillary-supporters-burn-american-flag-riot-threaten-to-kill-trump-after-losing-election/

http://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/091116threats.jpg

[Mikej]

EDIT -I'm just staying out of this....ok I'm back in - never mind, I'm out again...take this thread over to the Lavender room, that'll show you...

[flydhest]

I see lots of denial.



No there isn't.





... see what I did there?

[drewski]

I agree for me the biggest fear is the supreme court. There may be three new ones over 1 term.

I don't think things will go back. Gay rights and Roe v Wade will continue and this is where our duty as citizens comes into play. If we don't sit around and let it happen it won't happen. I think the bigger problem is just not moving forward on these issues.

Lets face it Trump like everyone before him will not keep most of his promises. He won't jail Hillary, I doubt a wall will be built, he will work to dismantle obamacare but likely some of it or some form of reform will remain. If things are moving in a direction we don't like, organize, write letters go to washington.

I am concerned that climate change will be continued to be kicked down the road. This is putting us on very untenable path and will give our future generations a planet without any hope of being usable. People were duped into thinking that a quick fixes will be put in by Trump/Pence since they believed that my kicking out immigrants we will be able to take America back.
Despite all of the reservations, I hope he does good job .

[Keith A]

Please let's keep this discussion civil. Although politics is certainly something we try to keep out of The Paceline, I understand the desire to discuss this given the recent events. Just play nice...okay?

[titans]

Christie for Transportation Secretary? :) All those pollsters who got it wrong..."You're Fired!" :)

[malcolm]

I am concerned that climate change will be continued to be kicked down the road. This is putting us on very untenable path and will give our future generations a planet without any hope of being usable. People were duped into thinking that a quick fixes will be put in by Trump/Pence since they believed that my kicking out immigrants we will be able to take America back.
If he is able to reform put in any reforms to make our gubernment more a privledge and less of a money grab, I will take back what I have said about
Mr. Deplorable Basket. I could not pull the trigger on either one of these schmoes and went Green Party.

At least you voted. I abstained and left the presidents blank. Global warming has already been kicked down the road and lets just hope we are not beyond the tipping point.

Someone above mentioned shortsightedness and I agree, but it's been that way for my whole life. A national debt in the trillions can only speak to shortsightedness. That debt will come due at some point. We as a populace don't want to make the kind of changes to truly fix things like the debt and global warming or environmental concerns because they require sacrifice long term changes/vision and we are clearly a what can you do for me now society. Trump, Clinton or actually no one in my 57 years has had any sort of long term vision. Hell, they couldn't get elected.

In my entire life I've never seen a candidate less beholden to special interests than Bernie Sanders and that so frightened his own party they undermined him from start to finish.

[Schmed]

For my wife and I, we've lost a bunch with the markets so far.
.

The DJIA is up 177 pts right now. Are you saying you lost a bunch today or during the subprime mortgage fiasco?

[redir]

I'm curious: What exactly has happened in our country (at least) in the past 20 years that the "average person" would grow tired of, and that electing an outsider would fix?

I mean, in the past 20 years my salary has increased substantially, my retirement fund increased substantially (despite a significant blip ~8 years ago), my home equity has improved substantially, and my quality of life -- as well as especially that of my LGBT friends -- has improved dramatically.

And if I'd never read the Op-Ed pages of a newspaper during those 20 years I probably wouldn't even have a clue about what else to grow tired of; the only metrics to determine that would be my own personal success. So am I not "average"?




All of the above (although I think World War and Civil War are pretty far down the list). Mostly worried about Roe v. Wade being rescinded, and the Supreme Court getting stacked with ultra-conservative judges who want to return America to the 1950s. My wife and I are honestly terrified that electing Trump essentially legitimized Being An Asshole To Your Fellow Man.

That's exactly what I was saying in my first post. There are problems for sure but it's not like the one's Alex Jones or Rush tells ya ;)

The insane thing is that Trump is on record basically agreeing with all the Democratic agenda throughout that whole time. I really don't know how he managed to pull the wool over so many eyes. His con job is glaringly obvious to anyone who at least trys to see it.

Here's the kicker though, Trump cannot govern. He simply can't do it. So what that means is that there will be a shadow group behind him telling him what to do. It's the only way he will be able to function as president.

But in all fairness it remains to be seen.

[raygunner]

I don't come to Paceline for politics but hey, let me just add something very quickly.

I think we all can all agree that the impending departure of Lena Dunham is the hope & change we've been waiting for.

Can I get an amen?

[kramnnim]

I don't come to Paceline for politics but hey, let me just add something very quickly.

I think we all can all agree that the impending departure of Lena Dunham is the hope & change we've been waiting for.

Can I get an amen?

who?

[Schmed]

The level of disaffection with Washington is largely due to an ignorant public believing in what ever they want to hear and having many resources to feed them with it.

Wow - I'd encourage you to think about how divided our currently currently is, and maybe consider NOT labeling 1/2 the country with a major assumption on your part.

Why is everyone so afraid to call a spade a spade.
This was based on nothing more (and nothing less) then hatred and racism.

You can read people's minds? You might be better served (and less offensive) if you were to actually talk to people that think different than you and maybe you'll learn something about them. Hint: not everyone that thinks different than you is full of racism and hatred.


I had someone draw on me yesterday when I went to vote. And I live in a 96% white town!

What's the relationship between getting a gun drawn on you and the fact that you live in a 96% white town? Are you hinting that white people aren't violent or gun-toting?

I mean... What other president goes on Twitter rants?

I know of a president that uses the bully pulpit to go on his rants. Which is better?

[azrider]

I don't come to Paceline for politics but hey, let me just add something very quickly.

I think we all can all agree that the impending departure of Lena Dunham is the hope & change we've been waiting for.

Can I get an amen?

Amen.

Won't miss these turds either

http://insider.foxnews.com/sites/insider.foxnews.com/files/styles/780/public/022916_celebs.jpg?itok=Nb2lF-WB

[MattTuck]

I'm curious: What exactly has happened in our country (at least) in the past 20 years that the "average person" would grow tired of, and that electing an outsider would fix?

I mean, in the past 20 years my salary has increased substantially, my retirement fund increased substantially (despite a significant blip ~8 years ago), my home equity has improved substantially, and my quality of life -- as well as especially that of my LGBT friends -- has improved dramatically.

And if I'd never read the Op-Ed pages of a newspaper during those 20 years I probably wouldn't even have a clue about what else to grow tired of; the only metrics to determine that would be my own personal success. So am I not "average"?



No, you're not average. The median citizen in this country has had stagnant wages for 20+ years and does not own any stock (directly or indirectly). The median voter has watched as the rich get richer, and they move sideways or down.

[ultraman6970]

+1 with Matt.

[93legendti]

No, you're not average. The median citizen in this country has had stagnant wages for 20+ years and does not own any stock (directly or indirectly). The median voter has watched as the rich get richer, and they move sideways or down.

+1.

Wages are lower than they were in 1999.
70% believe we are on the wrong track.
People can bs/mislead about the economy with cooked numbers, but Joe Taxpayer only has to look at his paycheck and know the truth.


If a person looks at the map of the USA with all the red and doesn't understand why liberal policies were rejected last night, then it's hard to have a meaningful discussion about what occurred.

People dismissed Brexit and didn't understand what it portended for our election.
Next, watch France and Germany's elections.

[ntb1001]

Amen.

Won't miss these turds either

http://insider.foxnews.com/sites/insider.foxnews.com/files/styles/780/public/022916_celebs.jpg?itok=Nb2lF-WB
Speaking for all Canadians....you can keep this group at home....[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[93legendti]

i don't come to paceline for politics but hey, let me just add something very quickly.

I think we all can all agree that the impending departure of lena dunham is the hope & change we've been waiting for.

Can i get an amen?

Amen!!

[cinema]

when dollar index tanks how will any of us buy ultegra groupsets for $400

[ergott]

Imagine a Samuel Jackson rant with a Canadian accent! The horror!

[Dave B]

whatever celebrities leave, please take the Kardashians with you?

[sales guy]

What's the relationship between getting a gun drawn on you and the fact that you live in a 96% white town? Are you hinting that white people aren't violent or gun-toting?



No, I am saying even in an almost all white town, voter intimidation was out there. Think about people in inner city area who are Black, Hispanic, Asian or Muslim! And the drew on me for just saying not to take the opponents yard sign. Imagine what others had to deal with.

[redir]

I hope you reported that to the police?

[gasman]

+1.

Wages are lower than they were in 1999.
70% believe we are on the wrong track.
People can bs/mislead about the economy with cooked numbers, but Joe Taxpayer only has to look at his paycheck and know the truth.


If a person looks at the map of the USA with all the red and doesn't understand why liberal policies were rejected last night, then it's hard to have a meaningful discussion about what occurred.

People dismissed Brexit and didn't understand what it portended for our election.
Next, watch France and Germany's elections.

I understand the anger and frustration but what is the answer ? I don't believe either side has a good answer. The Repblicans now have the ball.

[unterhausen]

on a lighter note, someone is probably pitching a pilot for "oh my balls!"

[redir]

Wow - I'd encourage you to think about how divided our currently currently is, and maybe consider NOT labeling 1/2 the country with a major assumption on your part.





Really? He's pro choice and then all of a sudden he's not.

He lied about the loan his father once gave him.

He lied about his company’s bankruptcies.

He lied about his federal financial-disclosure forms.

He lied about his endorsements.

He lied about “stop and frisk.”

He lied about “birtherism.”

He lied about Hillary Clinton’s tax plan.

He lied about the United States’s nuclear arsenal.

He lied about NATO’s budget.

He lied about NATO’s terrorism policy.

I don't even have time to continue and most of those red faced lies were caught on tape. So I don't think my assumption about 1/2 the country is to far off base. In fact it's rather spot on. Ignorance is excusable, it's not really anyone's fault that they are a dummy. In fact we are all dumb about certain things, but the ones who let it pass because the overlying message of xenophobia, authoritarianism, and far worse fit's their narrow world view are hardly excusable.

---

Yeah wages are stagnant so lets vote in a guy who has no economic plan and failed experiences as a businessman and lied and cheated on his taxes and paid nothing while hard working middle classers paid more then their fair share SMH.

It's great entertainment for sure.

[sales guy]

Yep. But they don't really care in my town. Unless the person is a minority or of a different skin color, they don't care. If they are, four cop cars with guns drawn would be there.

My town is the one that had the ice bucket challenge done to the autistic kid. The bucket being filled with piss and more. They let those kids go. In fact they turned it around on the autistic kid and blamed him. They live the street behind me.

Also the cop who unloaded 4 full clips into a car that was stopped, where there was 137 rounds fired, he lives in my town too. Well, not anymore fortunately. He lived the street behind me too.

The only non-white people in our town are athletes. Or a couple of asians. It's a super white town. Kind of scary.

I had a guy draw on me when i was at the park with my kids. I told him to put it away cause of the kids, he pointed it, cocked it and said make me. Now, I am a gun guy. I love guns. I own them. But seriously, in a park and to be playing cowboy spinning it around on your finger and then to point it at someone cause you are being stupid and dangerous with it? Wow! The Police didn't do anything on that one either.

[Kirk007]

..... Global warming has already been kicked down the road and lets just hope we are not beyond the tipping point.

......

Well I think most scientists would agree we are past a significant tipping point. Harm is and will continue to be suffered.

Human's fundamental failure to protect the biological underpinnings of life on earth is rapidly taking us to a place of increased resource conflict, increased loss from weather, increased risk from global pandemic. I wish all of the right to lifers put the same value on all life of all species as they do on unborn human fetuses. The accelerating destruction of life on earth is why I tell my son I don't want any grandkids.

Hillary would have been marginally better than Trump on this but until everyone gets real about the latent risk of our actions, nothing significant will change on climate or habitat destruction/loss of biodiversity. Paris was a step in the right direction, we'll now step back for at least 4 years and I'm not sure how many, if any of a two step forward, one step back dance we can afford.

[sales guy]

Really? He's pro choice and then all of a sudden he's not.

He lied about the loan his father once gave him.

He lied about his company’s bankruptcies.

He lied about his federal financial-disclosure forms.

He lied about his endorsements.

He lied about “stop and frisk.”

He lied about “birtherism.”

He lied about Hillary Clinton’s tax plan.

He lied about the United States’s nuclear arsenal.

He lied about NATO’s budget.

He lied about NATO’s terrorism policy.

I don't even have time to continue and most of those red faced lies were caught on tape. So I don't think my assumption about 1/2 the country is to far off base. In fact it's rather spot on. Ignorance is excusable, it's not really anyone's fault that they are a dummy. In fact we are all dumb about certain things, but the ones who let it pass because the overlying message of xenophobia, authoritarianism, and far worse fit's their narrow world view are hardly excusable.

---

Yeah wages are stagnant so lets vote in a guy who has no economic plan and failed experiences as a businessman and lied and cheated on his taxes and paid nothing while hard working middle classers paid more then their fair share SMH.

It's great entertainment for sure.



You missed a bunch.

He lied about his wife being her legally.

He lied about his net worth

he lied about his graduating from Wharton.

he lied about not raping women

he lied about not sexually assaulting women

he lied about Billy Bush prodding him into that "locker room" talk

He lied about Obama and the birtherism

He lied about his charity and how much he gives

he lied about his charity in general which isn't even legal!

He lied about not knowing Putin

He lied about so many thing. He lied over 70% of the time!!

And yet, Hillary was the crook and liar.

[p nut]

...I had a guy draw on me when i was at the park with my kids. I told him to put it away cause of the kids, he pointed it, cocked it and said make me. Now, I am a gun guy. I love guns. I own them. But seriously, in a park and to be playing cowboy spinning it around on your finger and then to point it at someone cause you are being stupid and dangerous with it? Wow! The Police didn't do anything on that one either.

That is scary. I own guns, too. But they're locked up in a safe and treated with respect.

Regarding the election, it is what it is. People have spoken. I don't agree with it, but I will support the new president. As our current president said this morning, we're ultimately on the same team. 2020 is just 4 short years away. Hopefully we can do better then (on both sides).

[93legendti]

I understand the anger and frustration but what is the answer ? I don't believe either side has a good answer. The Repblicans now have the ball.

Repeal Obamacare. My premiums have gone up $7000 a year since it was enacted. Imagine what could I I could do a $7000 more each year to spend on my business or vacations or buying bicycles.
Bring over corporate money parked in Europe. Stop the overregulation of small businesses. Approve keystone pipeline. Tap into our natural resources.
We have more energy sources than Saudi Arabia. We are the only country too stupid to tap into our natural resources. Cut personal and corporate taxes. Arm the border guards so businesses in border communities aren't hurt by illegals.
Repeal Dodd Frank.

We've had the slowest recovery from a recession in seventy years. The last eight years are the only eight years in our history were we didn't have one quarter of 3% percent GDP growth. Some people think this is a coincidence. I do not. We've had eight years of European policies and eight years of European style GDP growth.

[Schmed]

You missed a bunch.

He lied about his wife being her legally.

He lied about his net worth

he lied about his graduating from Wharton.

he lied about not raping women

he lied about not sexually assaulting women

he lied about Billy Bush prodding him into that "locker room" talk

He lied about Obama and the birtherism

He lied about his charity and how much he gives

he lied about his charity in general which isn't even legal!

He lied about not knowing Putin

He lied about so many thing. He lied over 70% of the time!!

And yet, Hillary was the crook and liar.


So you voted for the other liar? Therefore, 100% of the country is ignorant. USA! USA! USA!

[Kirk007]

Yep. But they don't really care in my town. ....

Dang I'd be voting with my feet!

[William]

The election is done and we'll see how he does. Going on about his or her character traits is pointless at this point. If you like the outcome we'll see how he does, if you don't you can vote against him in four years.


Keep it civil.



William

[sales guy]

So you voted for the other liar? Therefore, 100% of the country is ignorant. USA! USA! USA!



I never said that. I am saying that given someone who has experience with World politics, and someone who couldn't get a job at a McDonalds, I would go with the one with experience.

I will say it's crazy tho that over 30,000 people wrote in Harambe!!!!
I mean, seriously! How freakin stupid.

[djg21]

I am concerned that climate change will be continued to be kicked down the road. This is putting us on very untenable path and will give our future generations a planet without any hope of being usable. People were duped into thinking that a quick fixes will be put in by Trump/Pence since they believed that my kicking out immigrants we will be able to take America back.
Despite all of the reservations, I hope he does good job .

There is no such thing as "climate change" from the perspective of the political party that just has been given complete and unchecked control of the United States Government. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/why-republicans-still-reject-the-science-of-global-warming-w448023

[chiasticon]

He lied about so many thing. He lied over 70% of the time!!

And yet, Hillary was the crook and liar.in fact, CNN had a feature on this a few weeks ago. stating that most politicians lie or misrepresent facts on average about 25% of the time. that includes Hillary. Trump was well over 70% on average, and some of them not just misrepresentations of facts (like increasing a number to prove your point, for example; what most often happens for politicians) but literally making things up from nowhere.

[redir]

Repeal Obamacare. My premiums have gone up $7000 a year since it was enacted. Imagine what could I I could do a $7000 more each year to spend on my business or vacations or buying bicycles.
Bring over corporate money parked in Europe. Stop the overregulation of small businesses. Approve keystone pipeline. Tap into our natural resources.
We have more energy sources than Saudi Arabia. We are the only country too stupid to tap into our natural resources. Cut personal and corporate taxes. Arm the border guards so businesses in border communities aren't hurt by illegals.
Repeal Dodd Frank.

We've had the slowest recovery from a recession in seventy years. The last eight years are the only eight years in our history were we didn't have one quarter of 3% percent GDP growth. Some people think this is a coincidence. I do not. We've had eight years of European policies and eight years of European style GDP growth.

Well trillions of dollars on war and occupation and billions of dollars to Israel would be a good place to start. You in on that? Trump very well may be, the one redeeming quality I do agree on with him. But his handlers will never allow it.

[Kirk007]

[QUOTE=93legendti;2073710] Stop the overregulation of small businesses. Approve keystone pipeline. Tap into our natural resources.
We have more energy sources than Saudi Arabia. We are the only country too stupid to tap into our natural resources. [QUOTE]

Umm, Obama opened up more US public lands for energy extraction than any President in history. Its not our policies its the uncompetitive net profit from extraction and all the whining about regulations by the fossil fuel industry isn't going to change that. That they can't be competitive despite tremendous subsidies from you and me, yes our tax dollars heavily subsidize Exxon, Shell et al and they still can't make a competitive profit. Renewables are the future. Keystone: less than 2000 permanent jobs for U.S. Continued profits for Canadian companies at huge environmental costs. Ever see a fly over photo of the tar sands? Want to guess at the tally of species being wiped out, starting with ones as high on the food chain as Woodland Caribou from total habitat destruction? How is that in our interests?


[Quote]Arm the border guards so businesses in border communities aren't hurt by illegals. [Quote]

They are armed, very armed. Have you been to a border community or visited the wall? I have. You are there for about three minutes before the SUV with the armed guards come up inquiring behind their mirror sunglasses what the hell you are doing on federal public lands - you know - our lands? This border nonsense is a total red herring issue. If anything the wall and our immigration policy of patrolling the wall is harming the local communities will not doing jack sh*t to solve any problems. Don't believe me? Go to Nogales and talk to the small business owners and the ranchers like I have. It's red meat for the xenophobes though.

I hear ya on ObamaCare, three years, three policies discontinued, more money for less coverage every year: $1600 a month for a family of 3 - decent cover for my wife and 5K deductible catestrophic coverage for my son and me. Not good. Funny thing is, this isn't much worse than the prior 10 years before ObamaCare, so I don't think its ObamaCare as much as it is an unregulated insurance industry sucking us dry.

[Schmed]

I never said that. I am saying that given someone who has experience with World politics, and someone who couldn't get a job at a McDonalds, I would go with the one with experience.

I will say it's crazy tho that over 30,000 people wrote in Harambe!!!!
I mean, seriously! How freakin stupid.

But 62% of americans think we are on the wrong track. 70% disapprove of congress. 47% disapprove of President Obama.

It seems we all agree (an assumption on my part) that the world is a mess, wages are down, race relations are very bad, corruption is up, etc.

Wouldn't it be MORE ignorant to vote for more of the same and expect improvement? Bernie and Trump represent something different, and I submit that their popularity is due to the above (general disapproval of things) and not ignorance/hate/racism.

[MattTuck]

I understand the anger and frustration but what is the answer ? I don't believe either side has a good answer. The Repblicans now have the ball.

Simplify the personal and corporate tax code, eliminate most of the tax expenditures, especially for those earning over 250,000. Lower corporate marginal rate to 5% or less, but also eliminate the vast majority of write offs and limit other tax games. I haven't heard it advocated, but my policy would be if you earn 250,000 or more, I'd lump all income together (wages and capital gains, interest, etc.) and tax it at the top marginal rate.

Shore up social security so that it has a chance of existing in 20 years. Easy to do mathematically, but hard to find political will. Increase retirement age, decrease benefits, don't cap contributions, possibly means test benefits, and a few other things you can play with.

Introduce some market forces into healthcare. Not sure about selling policies across state lines, but I'd like to see more price transparency from hospitals so that competition can work, and more skin in the game for consumers. haven't explored it much, but possibly a system that involves multiple levels of insurance, some for basic care and some for catastrophic/chronic costs. Almost like a reinsurance model. I'd honestly like to see healthcare insurance separated from employers completely. So everyone would have to buy a policy on the open market. Too much concentration of power in the way it is set up now.

Fundamental reform of how campaigns get funded, and thus who influences elected officials.

Immigration reform to prioritize needed skills in the labor market as opposed to the current system that is based on family reunification. A market based, auction system for high skill visas. Include a path to legal residence for law abiding immigrants.

A system of incentives and taxes to move us away from carbon based combustion, and toward an economy that is less of an impact to the planet (this one is meaningless without international cooperation).


That's just to get started, and most of that deals with debates from the past. The real question is going to be how you cope with the large scale dislocation of millions of people due to the automation of their jobs. I'd like to see some creative solutions that find a way to reward companies for employing productive individuals. Not sure what it would be exactly, but maybe the ability to expense 125% of the full cost of an employee if they make within the middle third of income for a given area AND they don't receive other government benefits. Not sure of the details, just spit balling here.

[djg21]

You missed a bunch.

He lied about his wife being her legally.

He lied about his net worth

he lied about his graduating from Wharton.

he lied about not raping women

he lied about not sexually assaulting women

he lied about Billy Bush prodding him into that "locker room" talk

He lied about Obama and the birtherism

He lied about his charity and how much he gives

he lied about his charity in general which isn't even legal!

He lied about not knowing Putin

He lied about so many thing. He lied over 70% of the time!!

And yet, Hillary was the crook and liar.

If Hillary were a crook, you'd have to give her credit for being the best, craftiest crook ever. Millions and millions of taxpayer dollars have been spent by the Republicans on countless investigations over the last 20 years, and not a single one amounted to anything. Trump, on the other hand, will be dealing with lawsuits from the moment he is inaugurated and already is the subject of investigation that is likely to result in civil penalties and/or prosecution.

[Schmed]

.... I think the actual truth is that most republicans aren't ignorant fools but are fine with a deal with the devil just to further their agenda.

If by "agenda" (a loaded word), you mean they believe in smaller government, more personal freedom, lower taxes, personal responsibility, etc., then I think you are correct.

Or it's that they are all ignorant racists.

Too many labels and hate being thrown around these days, thinks me. It's dividing us as a country.

[malcolm]

I never said that. I am saying that given someone who has experience with World politics, and someone who couldn't get a job at a McDonalds, I would go with the one with experience.

I will say it's crazy tho that over 30,000 people wrote in Harambe!!!!
I mean, seriously! How freakin stupid.

Not trying to stir the pot and I'm not even sure I don't agree with you, but for my lifetime of 57 years we've had experienced politicians and where are we?? Multi trillion dollar debt, and environmental issues that we'll likely never over come.

I wouldn't hardly say the experienced politicians have done that great a job thus far.

I also can't think of a couple less involved in scandal/scandals than the clinton duo.

Harambe is everywhere

[kramnnim]

Too many labels and hate being thrown around these days, thinks me. It's dividing us as a country.

Lots of it here in this thread. :eek:

[93legendti]

Well trillions of dollars on war and occupation and billions of dollars to Israel would be a good place to start. You in on that? Trump very well may be, the one redeeming quality I do agree on with him. But his handlers will never allow it.

I have no clue what you're ranting about and I am not sure you know what you're talking about.

Perhaps it's just the old anti-Semitic "we shouldn't give the money we promised to Israel" rant?

If you're referring to the Camp David Accords where America pledged $6 billion/year to Israel in return for Israel giving the Sinai to Egypt (Egypt also gets $1.5- billion/year from that agreement), Israel would rather have the Sinai back with oil self sufficiency from the oil wells near Al Arish and the ability to sell its arms to whomever it please without WH/Pentagon objection.
Not to mention the amount is now only $3 billion/year, 80% which must be spent in the United States. So really, American arms manufactures would suffer the most. Israel makes just about everything she needs and would benefit from expanding its indigenous weapon programs.

So please go tell Egypt it must return the Sinai to Israel AND Egypt won't be getting $1.5 billion/year, because you object to Israel getting the $3 billion Pres. Carter promised Israel.

Trust me, Trump isn't "down for that". And he can't do it.
Although, if Bibi decides to forego the $3 billion in military aid, like he did the $3 billion in economic aid, I respect his decision.

Anyway, $3 billion will make a huge change. Lol.

"Elections have consequences" and these tired/failed policies lost.

[William]

************************************************** ****************

Call it what you like, the fact is there were only two choices and one of them won the election. The Status quo and the unknown: They chose the latter because they felt the former wasn't representing them anymore. We'll now see how he performs (or doesn't), but the other side better take a good look at why they failed.







William

[velotrack]

Sigh.

[gasman]

Repeal Obamacare. My premiums have gone up $7000 a year since it was enacted. Imagine what could I I could do a $7000 more each year to spend on my business or vacations or buying bicycles.
Bring over corporate money parked in Europe. Stop the overregulation of small businesses. Approve keystone pipeline. Tap into our natural resources.
We have more energy sources than Saudi Arabia. We are the only country too stupid to tap into our natural resources. Cut personal and corporate taxes. Arm the border guards so businesses in border communities aren't hurt by illegals.
Repeal Dodd Frank.

We've had the slowest recovery from a recession in seventy years. The last eight years are the only eight years in our history were we didn't have one quarter of 3% percent GDP growth. Some people think this is a coincidence. I do not. We've had eight years of European policies and eight years of European style GDP growth.

If your premiums have been going up $7,000 a year since 2010 you are spending $42,000 a year more than in 2010. You need a new insurance company.
Having worked in healthcare for 30 plus years , I don't believe getting rid of the ACA will change medical inflation. Heck our group had our insurance rates rise 34% or so in 1998. Repealing the ACA will just increase the number of patients who get their primary care in emergency departments.
I thought we have been extracting lots of natural resources.
Frank-Dodd may be bad but it's probably going to be years to see if it's an improvement or not.
Lowering taxes is appealing but we have a lot of budget items that we are just putting on the national credit card.
We'll see what happens.

[shovelhd]

Lots of it here in this thread. :eek:

No kidding. At least it hasn't gotten personal towards members.

You don't turn blue states into red states unless your message resonates and people are sick and tired of the same old politicians and their sickening collusion with the mainstream media and the Hollywood elites. Elitism will survive but it has been rocked by the very people they mock and belittle. That will turn out to be very good for this country in the long run.

Dow approaching record highs.

[lovethesport]

With all the rhetoric on both sides, the comment that stands out the most to me is....the revenge of the deplorables ...:butt:!!

[bikingshearer]

If the populace wanted change - why were so many incumbents voted back to the House and Senate?

Because the prevailing sentiment is - and has long been - "I hate Congress - except my guy/gal. He/she is okay."

I haven't been able to read through the entire thread - sorry if this repeats what someone else said.

[redir]

I have no clue what you're ranting about and I am not sure you know what you're talking about.

Perhaps it's just the old anti-Semitic "we shouldn't give the money we promised to Israel" rant?

If you're referring to the Camp David Accords where America pledged $6 billion/year to Israel in return for Israel giving the Sinai to Egypt (Egypt also gets $1.5- billion/year from that agreement), Israel would rather have the Sinai back with oil self sufficiency from the oil wells near Al Arish and the ability to sell its arms to whomever it please without WH/Pentagon objection.
Not to mention the amount is now only $3 billion/year, 80% which must be spent in the United States. So really, American arms manufactures would suffer the most. Israel makes just about everything she needs and would benefit from expanding its indigenous weapon programs.

So please go tell Egypt it must return the Sinai to Israel AND Egypt won't be getting $1.5 billion/year, because you object to Israel getting the $3 billion Pres. Carter promised Israel.

Trust me, Trump isn't "down for that". And he can't do it.
Although, if Bibi decides to forego the $3 billion in military aid, like he did the $3 billion in economic aid, I respect his decision.

Anyway, $3 billion will make a huge change. Lol.

"Elections have consequences" and these tired/failed policies lost.

Hahahah calling me an anti semite for referring to policies of the nation state of Israel. Nice one and so typical of you alt-righties.

[shovelhd]

Her crowds wouldn't have filled a high school gym without celebrities. The Clintons and Hollywood are inseparable.

[benb]

Most of the disconnect is that smaller government and a lot of the typical republican efforts benefit the "elite liberals" in the 1% a lot more than they benefit trumps apparent base of "average non college educated whites". I think that is where the condescension comes from in a lot of cases.

On a purely selfish level we didn't vote for Trump but we will benefit handily when he and Congress gut taxes for the upper tax brackets and cut Capital gains. Apparently a lot of folks who voted for him are unemployed/part time work/minimum wage/no investments, etc.. and won't benefit from his tax plans. Heck if the Republicans can gut AMT on a purely selfish level I will love them.

Same thing with anything to do with cutting aid to states, welfare, etc.. there is a strong overlap between states that voted strongly for him and states that get more welfare & aid than they pay in federal taxes.

I suspect his trade & immigration ideas if he got them through will hurt a lot of rural small businesses, farms, etc.. that use a lot of illegal labor right now. And any isolationist trade policies will cause some companies to incorporate themselves out of the US rather than bringing their manufacturing home at a big penalty to their bottom line.

[Keith A]

Another warning to keep this civil...and NO personal attacks/insults!

[rnhood]

The democrats spent millions trying to buy the election, while Hillery continued to spit on middle America. Even during her teary eyed consolation speech , she is calling on her supporters to look past this next four years, and focus on the next election. In other words, she continues to spit on middle America and doesn't want to acknowledge that they represent the salt of this land. Overall, the best thing about this election is it will be the end seeing her face in Washington's political venue. Good riddance.

Trump wasn't an ideal candidate by any means, and he might end up a disaster. But with disasters come new opportunities and experiences.

[Joxster]

Here's a solution, the Queen will welcome back the rowdy colonials for the foreseeable future ;)


On the next presidential candidate application form have a little box for them to tick........

Do you have the backing of the KKK? Yes/No

If Yes the application goes in the shredder

[raygunner]

Nation...victory is at hand!

Lena Dunham hasn't tweeted in almost 24 hours!!

https://twitter.com/lenadunham/status/796108212244271109

[Kirk007]

Well to keep folksy saying going and blithely mixing metaphors, Middle America just put a fox in the hen's house and he is sure as manure is going to help the Elite continue to steal middle America's bacon. The pain, anger, frustration fear, loss is undeniably real, but just like the desperate pioneer on the range, they've been taken by a snake oil salesman. Think about where Trump comes from, who he runs with, how he's conducted business ... what part of that equates with making things right for the little guy?

Out with the entrenched, totally get that. But that's not what happened. The fat connected elite just got more secure not less. Trump won't do Jack for middle America other than let Pence pursue their social agenda of "freedom and religion" on their terms rather than on Constitutional terms, and lessen the few protections that help safeguard their physical and financial well being. Hell of a deal.

[johnmdesigner]

No man's life, liberty or property are safe when the legislature is in session.

Loyalty to the government when it deserves it. Loyalty to the country always.

No party holds the privilege of dictating to me how I shall vote. If loyalty to party is a form of patriotism, I am no patriot.

No country can be well governed unless its citizens as a body keep religiously before their minds that they are the guardians of the law, and that the law officers are only the machinery for its execution, nothing more.

I hate to hear people say this Judge will vote so and so, because he is a Democrat -- and this one so and so because he is a Republican. It is shameful. The Judges have the Constitution for their guidance; they have no right to any politics save the politics of rigid right and justice when they are sitting in judgment upon the great matters that come before them.

We have the best government that money can buy.

Vast power and wealth corrupt a nation. It incites dangerous ambitions and can bring the republic down. It can pack the Supreme Court with members friendly to its purposes, run down the Congress and crush the people’s voice.

The master minds of all nations, in all ages, have sprung, in affluent multitude, from the mass of the nation, and from the mass of the nation only — not from its privileged classes.

Only when a republic's life is in danger should a man uphold his government when it is wrong. There is no other time.

A blight has fallen upon us. And the monarchy of the rich and the powerful are the author of it. I had not expected the monarchy to come so soon, but it is here, and it is sitting on the throne.

The lottery is a government institution & the poor its best patrons.

Certainly a man's first duty is to his own conscience and honor — the party or the country come second to that, and never first.

It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native criminal class except Congress.

Irreverence is the champion of liberty and its only sure defense.

To lodge all power in one party and keep it there is to insure bad government and the sure and gradual deterioration of the public morals.

Men think they think upon the great political questions, and they do; but they think with their party, not independently; they read its literature, but not that of the other side.

If you would work the multiplication table into the Democratic platform, the Republicans will vote it down at the election.

Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.

(W)hen you are in politics you are in a wasp’s nest with a short shirttail.

Why waste your money looking up your family tree? Just go into politics and your opponents will do it for you.

My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one’s country, not to its institutions or its officeholders. The country is the real thing, the substantial thing, the eternal thing; it is the thing to watch over, and care for, and be loyal to; institutions are extraneous, they are its mere clothing, and clothing can wear out, become ragged, cease to be comfortable, cease to protect the body from winter, disease, and death.

Only a government that is rich and safe can afford to be a democracy, for democracy is the most expensive and nefarious kind of government ever heard of on earth.

No public interest is anything other or nobler than a massed accumulation of private interests.

I have seen a number of Legislatures, and there was a comfortable majority in each of them that knew just about enough to come in when it rained, and that was all.

Few men of first class ability can afford to let their affairs go to ruin while they fool away their time in Legislatures for months on a stretch.

(Two decades before women could vote, Twain wrote...)
I know that since the women started out on their crusade they have scored in every project they undertook against unjust laws. I would like to see them help make the laws and those who are to enforce them. I would like to see the whiplash in women’s hands.

The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter — they are an entire banquet.

In God We Trust. I don't believe it would sound any better if it were true. (And) The motto stated a lie. If this nation has ever trusted in God, that time has gone by; for nearly half a century almost its entire trust has been in the Republican party and the dollar -- mainly the dollar.

The candidates re-arrange the facts to suit themselves and keep the lies and half-truths spinning in the air while the great gullible public cheers and shouts and stomps its approval the way they always do when a politician has just said something they don't understand.

In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.

Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can.

The mania for giving the government power to meddle with the private affairs of... citizens is likely to cause endless trouble... there is great danger that our people will lose our independence of thought and action... and sink into the helplessness of (one) who expects his government to feed him when hungry, clothe him when naked, to prescribe when his child may be born and when he may die... to regulate every act of humanity from the cradle to the tomb.

History has tried hard to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians. Now, to go and stick one at the very head of the government couldn't be wise.

An honest man in politics shines more there than he would elsewhere.

All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity.

There isn’t a foot of land in the world which doesn’t represent the ousting and re-ousting of a long line of successive “owners,” who each in turn, as “patriots,” with proud swelling hearts defended it against the next gang of “robbers” who came to steal it and did—and became swelling-hearted patriots in their turn.

There are laws to protect the freedom of the press's speech, but none that are worth anything to protect the people from the press.

For in a Republic, who is “the country”? Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

[cinema]

Nation...victory is at hand!

Lena Dunham hasn't tweeted in almost 24 hours!!

https://twitter.com/lenadunham/status/796108212244271109

i really liked tiny furniture and at least 1.5 seasons of her show.

[makoti]

I don't think its ObamaCare as much as it is an unregulated insurance industry sucking us dry.

We have a winner!

[Schmed]

....fox in the hen's house....

Some of us think that's the existing politicians, and we have facts to back that up. Pay to play, for one example.

....lessen the few protections that help safeguard their physical and financial well being. .

Really? What protections help my financial and physical well being? Answer: ME. I safeguard my physical and financial well being. Not some bureaucrat 1500 miles away that could care less about me.

Sorry if that comes of snarky, but we just look at it differently. I fully acknowledge the risk of electing Trump. I'm no dummy. I'm willing to take that risk given my two options yesterday.

[drewski]

We are ****ed for the next 4 years. Sessions, Chris Christie and Gulianani in his cabinet. If you care about progressive politics get ready to act up and
force the democrats not to accept any of his loony tune appointments.

Trump is way in over his head.

[Schmed]

I think your agenda points are too vague. what does more 'personal freedom' or 'responsibility' actually mean?

Get a job and get off welfare before we pull the rug out? Stop having 'anchor' or 'welfare' babies and show some personal responsibility? Oh wait, soon they won't be able to have an abortion or even contraceptive and well-woman care because planned parenthood funding will be gutted.

If a woman can't get an abortion without risking jail time, (our new VP's stated policy) then that seems like substantially less personal freedom to me.

imho, you repeated the exact meaningless con job that Trump used to convince ignorant and suffering middle America that he will look out for them. The truth is they have more to gain from electing a democrat who will protect social programs than any republican likely would, least of all Trump.

Hillary shoulda used more country music in her campaign ads and steered clear of celebrities.

Jeez, sailorboy. More country music? You sure aren't afraid of offending anyone and labeling them hillbillies. I won't take your bait.

[tctyres]

There is no such thing as "climate change" from the perspective of the political party that just has been given complete and unchecked control of the United States Government. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/why-republicans-still-reject-the-science-of-global-warming-w448023

As a climate change scientist, this is really sort of sad. It's like saying that Shimano hubs* don't exist.

*bike content :)

[William]

As a climate change scientist, this is really sort of sad. It's like saying that Shimano hubs* don't exist.

*bike content :)

Is there scientific proof that Campy really only fits wee hands? ;) :)







William

[choke]

Agreed!!! Just look at what happened at polling places! Guns pulled on people who weren't voting Trump.
People were Maced.
2 or 3 people were killed in LA at a polling place.

It was all about hatred. And he opened the jar and then broke it.

I had someone draw on me yesterday when I went to vote. And I live in a 96% white town! All cause the person was removing Clinton signs and replacing them with Trump ones.

The amount of hatred is deplorable. And there is nothing we can do now.Re: the bold part, I've seen this posted a couple of times and it simply isn't true. There was indeed a fatal shooting in the LA area close to a polling place but there's zero evidence that it was election related.

A fatal shooting near a polling place in Azusa, a small city northeast of Los Angeles, was likely unrelated to the election.

“We don’t believe there is any connection to terrorism,” said City of Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department Capt. Steven D. Katz. “It could be domestic violence, but nothing jumps out right now.”

“We don’t think there is any connection to the polling places or the election,” he added.https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-updates-on-the-2016-election-voting-and-race-results/police-respond-to-shooting-near-los-angeles-area-polling-place/

[Joxster]

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

[tctyres]

Is there scientific proof that Campy really only fits wee hands? ;) :)







William

Just climate change ... ya gotta ask a biologist ;)

[Kirk007]

Really? What protections help my financial and physical well being? Answer: ME. I safeguard my physical and financial well being. .

Sorry but you only cover a small part of your personal well being picture. Pray tell what you do to protect yourself from the current rate of biodiversity loss projected at 50% of all life on earth in the next 30 years. Think of a earth as a plane that is losing 50% of its rivets - feel safe?

What do you personally do to protect yourself from particulates in the air, unregulated toxins and biologics in our water supply, from a changing climate that impacts agriculture and is forcing massive refugee crises. Do you grow all your own food to ensure its not contaminated by who knows what?

Your personal well being is well beyond your control unless you live on a 40 acre homestead with your own food and water supply and wear a mask at all times to shield you from airborne vectors.


Gimme a break, none of us are self sufficient fully protected rugged individualists. The fiction of personal freedom and responsibility as the be all end all and a small government that minds its own business utterly fails to account for the impact that we all have on one another. Not advocating big brother but come on....

[verticaldoug]

Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for. Republicans have promised to fix Obamacare which after immigration is probably the most toxic issue out there. I think the republicans have bailed out the democrats here for the next mid-term election.

D

[OtayBW]

We are ****ed for the next 4 years. Sessions, Chris Christie and Gulianani in his cabinet. If you care about progressive politics get ready to act up and
force the democrats not to accept any of his loony tune appointments.

Trump is way in over his head.
I find this shocking, scary, and depressing....but I am afraid you're correct. And I'd be looking to Kellyanne the Smiling Spinmeistress to be the next White House mouthpiece as well. On the positive side, I guess we can also look forward to: 1) new, favorable trade deals, 2) return of high-paying manufacturing and service jobs, 3) the elimination of ISIS, 4) repeal and replacement of the ACA by a new awesome plan, 5) all NATO and Asia-Pacific allies to pony up their fare share of security costs, and 6) erection of that HUGE wall to occur within short order as promised. The future is so bright, I'm gonna need these....... :cool:

[sales guy]

So you voted for the other liar? Therefore, 100% of the country is ignorant. USA! USA! USA!

Re: the bold part, I've seen this posted a couple of times and it simply isn't true. There was indeed a fatal shooting in the LA area close to a polling place but there's zero evidence that it was election related.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2016/live-updates/general-election/real-time-updates-on-the-2016-election-voting-and-race-results/police-respond-to-shooting-near-los-angeles-area-polling-place/


I had not heard about it NOT being election related. I only heard about it being near the polling location. I hadn't seen the other posts about it. So thank you for correcting my post.

[Schmed]

....

What do you personally do to protect yourself from particulates in the air, unregulated toxins and biologics in our water supply, from a changing climate that impacts agriculture and is forcing massive refugee crises. Do you grow all your own food to ensure its not contaminated by who knows what?

Your personal well being is well beyond your control unless you live on a 40 acre homestead with your own food and water supply and wear a mask at all times to shield you from airborne vectors.

....

Those are great points. I have the benefit and luck (sarcasm intended) to work often with OSHA, the EPA, and the DOT. Would you like to tell me how utterly incompetent they are? Sure, they can put together laws to protect the environment, but if you think they really affect your day to day health, I'd try to convince you with logic and facts that YOU have a much bigger impact on your well being than they do.

IMHO, there's a need for government. The effectiveness of that government, however, his highly overestimated, in my dealings with them. But YMMV.

[OtayBW]

Those are great points. I have the benefit and luck (sarcasm intended) to work often with OSHA, the EPA, and the DOT. Would you like to tell me how utterly incompetent they are? Sure, they can put together laws to protect the environment, but if you think they really affect your day to day health, I'd try to convince you with logic and facts that YOU have a much bigger impact on your well being than they do.

IMHO, there's a need for government. The effectiveness of that government, however, his highly overestimated, in my dealings with them. But YMMV.
Not to worry - I'd be willing to bet that EPA, DOE, and the Dept. of Commerce will be gone - or proposals to do so will be put forth - within 2 years. Actually, I'll back up and say that they will keep NOAA. Someone needs to tell us about hurricane threats....

[William]

Thank you to many of the members for keeping the political discussion on this post election day mostly on a civil level. As you know political discussions are generally not allowed on the Paceline, but we decided to make an exception (as long as it remained civil) to allow folks to discuss the very interesting turn of events that has just occurred here in America.

That said, we will be closing down the political threads tonight at 9 p.m. EST and resuming the regularly scheduled program here at the Paceline.

Thank you for your participation and support!






William

[Tony T]

Can we vote on that? :)

[William]

Can we vote on that? :)


:no:





:)
William

[Jeff N.]

OK, lemme change the subject. Anyone know when Ribble will have DA9100 groups in stock? Tired of waiting!

[gemship]

Has anyone noticed how much one ages whilst being President? It will be interesting to see what four years of being President does for Trump.

[zmudshark]

I just hope that this is our best president, ever.

It may be tough to top our current President, President Barack Obama (just love saying it), but Hope springs eternal and Change is slow.

[zmudshark]

Has anyone noticed how much one ages whilst being President? It will be interesting to see what four years of being President does for Trump.

hello president pence.

[Kirk007]

Those are great points. I have the benefit and luck (sarcasm intended) to work often with OSHA, the EPA, and the DOT. Would you like to tell me how utterly incompetent they are? Sure, they can put together laws to protect the environment, but if you think they really affect your day to day health, I'd try to convince you with logic and facts that YOU have a much bigger impact on your well being than they do.

IMHO, there's a need for government. The effectiveness of that government, however, his highly overestimated, in my dealings with them. But YMMV.

Well we both know the level of competence leaves much to be desired. I spent 16 years working on Superfund sites so yeah I get that and agree that the bigger impact is taking care of oneself's health, lifestyle etc, but we don't do it in a vacuum.

No easy answers, and no good choice in this election for a true change agent. In some ways, while I utterly and totally despise and am repulsed by Trump the man, I suspect that his getting elected may move us further along than the 4 years of turmoil and partisan temper tantrums that electing Clinton would have elicited. Maybe Trump can, in his bull in the china shop way, get some movement on the need for change in government, although it will be at tremendous cost to issues that I care about. Although in my darkest hours I fear that we need to fall even further before we will reach the place than blows up the well moneyed calcification of our political system.

[verticaldoug]

hello president pence.

Pence scares me much more than Trump.

[Ray]

For a long time I wondered if Trump was just a plant to get Hillary elected. Now I'm wondering if it was the other way around.

I'm profoundly disturbed by this election. I don't prefer conservative politics, but I can live with it and have many times. But he strikes me as nothing more than a petulant child who was humiliated by Obama at the Correspondent's dinner a few years ago and ran just to repay the favor. I can't imagine this guy dealing with foreign policy and our nuclear arsenal.

And whether he's personally a racist or not, he's run a racist campaign, giving winks and nods to the KKK and Stormwatch neo-Nazi types. I've seen more hateful stuff spewing at Jewish writers on twitter in the past few months than I EVER have before. Trump may or may not believe this stuff, but his anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant stuff is worse if he's just using it cynically than if he does believe it.

Personally I think Obamacare has been a net plus. I don't want to see Roe v Wade overturned, or marriage equality overturned, or climate change denied, or economic policies that blow up the deficit (yeah, the debt is high now, but the deficit's been coming down for several years). I also think trade deals are a net plus and closing our borders to trade and imposing tariffs on imports is the worst economic mistake we could make.

If working class people really think this is gonna help them, they're in for a rude surprise. If coal miners think Trump is gonna bring those jobs back, they're in for a rude surprise. Etc.

OTOH, this election puts the Republicans totally in the driver's seat. So they're gonna have to actually GOVERN rather than just obstruct full time and contribute to nothing. They'll find out how hard it is, how every piece of legislation involves tradeoffs, none of this stuff is easy and solutions are complicated. If nothing else, that might be useful. I'd rather have an adult in the oval office, but since we don't have that, I'm hoping he's smart enough to figure out just how much he doesn't know and surround himself with people who do. But I'm not optimistic.

I voted for Obama twice - for my way of looking at the world, he's been the best president of my adult life. Far from perfect, but damn good. His approval ratings have been higher than Reagan or Clinton in their last months, so I'm not alone in this, although I know I'm in the minority around here. I hope you Trump voters feel even close to as good about this guy when he's near the end of his run, but I wouldn't bet on it... I just hope we survive him intact...

-Ray

[PQJ]

Has anyone noticed how much one ages whilst being President? It will be interesting to see what four years of being President does for Trump.

Perhaps he will buck the trend if he mails it in and has other people do his bidding. Those Scottish golf courses aren't going to get play tested by themselves.

[chengher87]

OK, lemme change the subject. Anyone know when Ribble will have DA9100 groups in stock? Tired of waiting!

Funny you mention Ribble. They have a "Stunning deals to TRUMP the rest" sale going on. I laughed out loud on that one.

[tctyres]

^ Thanks, Ray.

I appreciated that post. I think Obama has done well, too.

We'll see what happens. There are several factions in the Washington Republicans with neither McConnell or Ryan getting along with Trump. On top of that, Trump has no experience drafting legislation. It will be a tough hill to climb, and there are added complications like Trump being left of center on several issues and appears to have a liberal streak in his historic backing of candidates. I wish the man well, but I am saddened by how the campaigning on both sides was run.

[rnhood]

Trump's campaigning?? Hillery's campaigning was far, far more negative, spinning words that Trump said years ago and applying it to different circumstances today. In other words, completely out of context. Trump's campaigning is not innocent here, but nor was it as deceitful. In general, this type negative advertising is a black eye to our system of politics.

Regardless, one of the really positive things that came out of this particular election, is that it's not so easy to buy the Presidency. Just Google the campaign spending by the democrats, and the figure is just mind boggling. Think of all the good that money would have done had it been donated to charity, yet they flushed it down the commode. Maybe their donors and superpacs will think twice before giving this amount of money next election.

[tctyres]

Trump's campaigning?? Hillery's campaigning

All campaigning. Sorry. That read as Trump's. Both.

I am not keen on Trump's hotheaded reactions, during the campaign, however.

[rnhood]

Well yes, I agree with you. Watching this type campaign advertising from both camps was a real downer. Absolutely disgusting, actually.

[shovelhd]

^Don't count on it.

Hillary didn't lose this election, the DNC did, with its incessant focus on making history over presenting a winning candidate. Not only did they not back the right guy, they manipulated his candidacy to ensure he lost. The last several elections have been change elections, and this one was no different. Even though Bernie was an insider, he had a small Washington footprint and comes from a small state. Just think if the DNC chose him. There would be no Wikileaks, no FBI investigations. Two change guys with polar opposite viewpoints and equally loud voices going at each other Mano a Mano. With the Dem machine he would have been the favorite to win. Certainly the blue curtain wouldn't have fallen so dramatically. But no, he wasn't the priority. He was expendable.

I hope this loss helps temper the outright arrogance of the liberal elites, but I seriously doubt it.

Trump has two years.

[djg21]

Perhaps he will buck the trend if he mails it in and has other people do his bidding. Those Scottish golf courses aren't going to get play tested by themselves.

He will have plenty of others doing his bidding:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-picks-top-climate-skeptic-to-lead-epa-transition/?wt.mc=SA_Twitter-Share

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/who-will-be-trumps-cabinet-sarah-palin-newt-gingrich-rudy-giuliani-among-rumoured-picks-1590756

If Florida drops into the sea and Oklahoma suffers more earthquakes related to fracking, that's will be too bad, but it's not my problem. Sometimes you do get what you ask for.

[Mikej]

Well, I was waiting for some type of fight from m the Clinton side but I guess that's it -

[FlashUNC]

^Don't count on it.

Hillary didn't lose this election, the DNC did, with its incessant focus on making history over presenting a winning candidate. Not only did they not back the right guy, they manipulated his candidacy to ensure he lost. The last several elections have been change elections, and this one was no different. Even though Bernie was an insider, he had a small Washington footprint and comes from a small state. Just think if the DNC chose him. There would be no Wikileaks, no FBI investigations. Two change guys with polar opposite viewpoints and equally loud voices going at each other Mano a Mano. With the Dem machine he would have been the favorite to win. Certainly the blue curtain wouldn't have fallen so dramatically. But no, he wasn't the priority. He was expendable.

I hope this loss helps temper the outright arrogance of the liberal elites, but I seriously doubt it.

Trump has two years.

Six months of the RNC portraying Bernie as a crazy Jewish communist from that tiny, weird tie dye state would have ended his chances in the general. He would have run against a candidate who openly posted anti-Semitic messages to his Twitter with zero reprecussions from his base.

This notion that the DNC kept a whole leg on the scale during the primaries is silly. He lost by nearly 4 million votes. As Paul Begala noted during the convention, there's no primary system you can devise where someone loses registered party members by that margin and wins the nomination.

The Democrats don't have a particularly deep bench thanks to years of losses at the state and congressional level, but in 2020 they better run someone under the age of 65.

[OtayBW]

For a long time I wondered if Trump was just a plant to get Hillary elected. Now I'm wondering if it was the other way around.

I'm profoundly disturbed by this election. I don't prefer conservative politics, but I can live with it and have many times. But he strikes me as nothing more than a petulant child who was humiliated by Obama at the Correspondent's dinner a few years ago and ran just to repay the favor. I can't imagine this guy dealing with foreign policy and our nuclear arsenal.

And whether he's personally a racist or not, he's run a racist campaign, giving winks and nods to the KKK and Stormwatch neo-Nazi types. I've seen more hateful stuff spewing at Jewish writers on twitter in the past few months than I EVER have before. Trump may or may not believe this stuff, but his anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant stuff is worse if he's just using it cynically than if he does believe it.

Personally I think Obamacare has been a net plus. I don't want to see Roe v Wade overturned, or marriage equality overturned, or climate change denied, or economic policies that blow up the deficit (yeah, the debt is high now, but the deficit's been coming down for several years). I also think trade deals are a net plus and closing our borders to trade and imposing tariffs on imports is the worst economic mistake we could make.

If working class people really think this is gonna help them, they're in for a rude surprise. If coal miners think Trump is gonna bring those jobs back, they're in for a rude surprise. Etc.

OTOH, this election puts the Republicans totally in the driver's seat. So they're gonna have to actually GOVERN rather than just obstruct full time and contribute to nothing. They'll find out how hard it is, how every piece of legislation involves tradeoffs, none of this stuff is easy and solutions are complicated. If nothing else, that might be useful. I'd rather have an adult in the oval office, but since we don't have that, I'm hoping he's smart enough to figure out just how much he doesn't know and surround himself with people who do. But I'm not optimistic.

I voted for Obama twice - for my way of looking at the world, he's been the best president of my adult life. Far from perfect, but damn good. His approval ratings have been higher than Reagan or Clinton in their last months, so I'm not alone in this, although I know I'm in the minority around here. I hope you Trump voters feel even close to as good about this guy when he's near the end of his run, but I wouldn't bet on it... I just hope we survive him intact...

-Ray
Well said.

[shovelhd]

Paul Begala. The democratic version of Karl Rove.

[FlashUNC]

Paul Begala. The democratic version of Karl Rove.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the point Paul was making, but okay, sure. Both know a thing or two about running successful national campaigns.

Bernie's returns during the primary season were awful among core Democrat constituencies like African Americans, Latinos, and above 35 college educated professionals.

Yeah, he got millenial turnout. But that was about it.

He didn't end up 4 million votes short because of when they held the debates. He had fundamental problems as a candidate that would only have been further exposed in the general. Hillary clearly did too, but let's not act like he was some unicorn candidate that would have won by 15 points.

[Schmed]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the point Paul was making, but okay, sure. Both know a thing or two about running successful national campaigns.

Bernie's returns during the primary season were awful among core Democrat constituencies like African Americans, Latinos, and above 35 college educated professionals.

Yeah, he got millenial turnout. But that was about it.

He didn't end up 4 million votes short because of when they held the debates. He had fundamental problems as a candidate that would only have been further exposed in the general. Hillary clearly did too, but let's not act like he was some unicorn candidate that would have won by 15 points.

So, who would have (theoretically) done better than Hillary for the democrats?

Biden
Bernie
Someone else?

[joosttx]

ISIS is winning

[Tony T]

So, who would have (theoretically) done better than Hillary for the democrats?

Biden
Bernie
Someone under 70?

Fixed it for ya :)

[Schmed]

Fixed it for ya :)

True.

I told a friend that I'd have voted for John Hickenlooper over these two, and he's a D and I'm an R. (Hick is the governor of CO, fairly centrist, be definitely Left of center)

[sales guy]

I think something that needs said is yes, the DNC was Pro-Clinton. BUT, to claim they screwed Bernie is hard to grasp.

He only became a Dem for this race. It's just as if you took your bike to a shop and they jacked you over on price. VS, going to your favorite LBS and they don't.

He wasn't a Dem. Never was. He was always an Independent. So to claim they stuffed to him, if he was true to his roots, he never would've been in the race as a Dem.

The DNC had a plan. They've had one for years. And it was about Hillary. So you can't fault them for following thru with that plan.

Hillary lost for many reasons. And the biggest one is she is a woman. The right absolutely hates giving rights to women. Just look at how they treat them and what they try to do-they love to stick their noses in their bodies and tell them how to use them or don't use them. If you have a group of people that hateful of women, of course it will be an uphill battle. Add into it all the fear mongering Drumf did and its a guaranteed win. And of course one of the worst things he did was claim it was all rigged against him. Which by the way, I would love to get an apology for him claiming that and him winning.

Hopefully all of his lawsuits will lead to him getting booted or something. Unfortunately Pence is worse in many ways.
Conversion Therapy(pray the gay away)
Jail for women who have miscarriages.
Jail for Trans people if they try to use their appropriate restroom
And of course numerous women bills where their rights are reduced and removed.

I have many gay family members. And my Brother in Law just got married. His husband is a Govt Employee. And with Drumf in office, his rights to his husbands benefits, healthcare and of course even being able to see him in the hospital will be wiped away. All of those were executive order by Obama. And Drumf and Pence have said flat out they're gone. Also, they won't be legally married anymore when he gets rid of the executive orders.

I'm sorry, but my BIL and his Husband are incredible people. One of them is a rocket scientist. He works on the ISS among other things. And for him to essentially be singled out because they are gay, it's just so wrong and hateful.

ATTENTION!!!! There are gay people in the World! They will not go away! And they shouldn't have too.

I could go on and on and on. But it's all pointless. Cause the person who would've protected my BIL and HIs husband and my wife, my kids and of course everyone else in the US, that person lost. And I am incredibly sad for this day and for this country.

America has always been GREAT! Are there issues, of course. And the ACA needed some fixes. Just like every single other piece of legislation since this country was founded. But that won't happen now. And it's sad.

Rant over. Sorry.

[FlashUNC]

So, who would have (theoretically) done better than Hillary for the democrats?

Biden
Bernie
Someone else?

Maybe Biden? Like I said, they don't have a super deep bench right now. Warren possibly?

The talent pool is awfully thin on both sides.

[Rada]

Thousands are on the streets in cities across America right now protesting against Trump. I don't think the next four years are going to be pretty.

[sales guy]

Thousands are on the streets in cities across America right now protesting against Trump. I don't think the next four years are going to be pretty.

It won't be. A bunch of his supporters vandalized and wrote Nazi symbols and more in Philly.

[stephenmarklay]

^Don't count on it.

Hillary didn't lose this election, the DNC did, with its incessant focus on making history over presenting a winning candidate. Not only did they not back the right guy, they manipulated his candidacy to ensure he lost. The last several elections have been change elections, and this one was no different. Even though Bernie was an insider, he had a small Washington footprint and comes from a small state. Just think if the DNC chose him. There would be no Wikileaks, no FBI investigations. Two change guys with polar opposite viewpoints and equally loud voices going at each other Mano a Mano. With the Dem machine he would have been the favorite to win. Certainly the blue curtain wouldn't have fallen so dramatically. But no, he wasn't the priority. He was expendable.

I hope this loss helps temper the outright arrogance of the liberal elites, but I seriously doubt it.

Trump has two years.

Maybe this is true. I am not sure anyone could have won this year.

[bikinchris]

If people wanted change so bad, why did they vote so many of the same old "politicians" back into office in the house and senate.

[jlwdm]

...

Hillary lost for many reasons. And the biggest one is she is a woman.

...

I think she got a lot of votes just because she is a woman.

Jeff

[Cicli]

I think she got a lot of votes just because she is a woman.

Jeff

Dosent matter now does it?

[fuzzalow]

of looking at the world, he's been the best president of my adult life.

Yes, I agree. And I am a Republican and, I am quick to add, a Conservative. An important distinction as meaning Conservative to its definition by Edmund Burke and not to the misnomer in modern media associated with Rush Limbaugh. I voted for President Obama in 2012. Mrs. fuzz is a Democrat. No problem in this household as we can both weigh & balance opposing views in our minds without suffering incapacitating mental lockup.

Many of the comments in this thread directed at either candidate tend to focus on ad hominem, personal dislikes for this or that tit or tat. That is pointless and not constructive. The election was run, the counting of ballots is over and a candidate was declared the victor and will assume power. Now we hopefully move forwards.

My fervent hope is that the president-elect's policies are predominantly constructive rather than dismantling without any positive replacement. As example: It is not enough to undo the Affordable Care Act without proposal for something to take its place to serve some stated end. The new administration will be under pressure to provide results and solutions "fast" and it is not enough to simply destroy what was built before without providing a positive benefit as replacement. Building something positive is hard to do. Just tearing something down is easy and if that's all there is, such actions are hardly removed from terrorism.

But I fear that in the rude awakening to the difficult reality of getting things done to satisfy lofty promises, nothing but tearing things down is all we are gonna get. Wrecking stuff is something any schmuck can do. Does he have the character, the smarts, the focus, the ambition, the fortitude, the discipline to build something positive for the American people? Doing that takes guts.

[beeatnik]

^fuzzalow, thank you for your lucidity.

I like your substance.

[fiamme red]

I'm terrified for many reasons.

Firstly the Supreme Court. Every single thing they've done to move the country into reality and the 21st century will be gone.
So my brother in law who just got married to his boyfriend of 7 years, that's gone.
If a woman has a miscarriage, jail time. Oh, and a funeral for the fetus.
Roe V Wade is gonna be gone.
No immigrants into the country. Unless of course it's to build another Trump building cheaply.
Guaranteed he won't release his taxes even tho it's law that presidents do.
The stock market is gonna take a massive hit which means everyone's 401k and retirements will take a hit.
His opponents, jailed.
The 14 women who've come forward over sexual assault charges, sued and then some.
All the cases against him, just watch they won't happen.

He is beyond corrupt now. Just wait till he's in office groping interns.

I work with people in Britain. They can't believe what happened over Brexit. They are beside themselves over this.I'm most worried about the future of the planet. Trump together with a Republican Congress will obliterate the small environmental progress this country has made over the last eight years. :crap:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/11/09/trump-victory-reverses-u-s-energy-and-environmental-priorities/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/11/president-trump-global-climate-change-denial-environment/

[Keith A]

^fuzzalow, thank you for your lucidity.

I like your substance.Yes indeed...let's hope he can do more than just wreak stuff!!!

[OtayBW]

Yes indeed...let's hope he can do more than just wreak stuff!!!
Sorry to say that the fact is that that is exactly what he has done and how he has operated over the last ~18 months. He has been nothing but divisive - downright nasty, in fact, IMO. The burden is on him to show something different now if that is indeed possible.

[Plum Hill]

Rupert Murdoch supposedly said his biggest ambition in life was to influence an American Presidential election. He did it through Fox News.

So much of what has gone on in the past 20 years or so is based on nothing but hate. Lee Atwater started it. Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, et al continued it.
It continued through the campaign. Tell me - just how much policy did you hear about?

I was a blue collar skilled tradesman for 35 years. Sadly, middle America just doesn't get it. They continue to vote against their own economic interests.
Computerization killed thousands of jobs.
China didn't steal our jobs. American corporate sent the jobs to China searching for higher profit margins. On that issue, we are all to blame. If you have a mutual fund or stock (think retirement plan), you want higher returns.
Trump won't change anything. All of his products are manufactured out of the country.

How often have you heard the US has the highest tax rate in the world? That's pure malarkey.
The US has higher corporate taxes than other countries. Possibly, but how many submarines and battleships does Ireland or the Cayman Islands have?

The Democratic party left the working man behind years ago. It's now the party of the bankers, white collar workers, and academia. Read 'Listen Liberal'. It's an eye opener. The Dems have spent more time worrying about abortion, gay marriage, and other social issues than the working person.
The Republican party has become the party of obstruction; and still the flag bearer for the Chamber of Commerce. They have their own social agendas: anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-ACA, many other antis.

Before I fall off my soapbox, one more thing: why on earth do we tax unearned income at such a low rate, yet we hammer a poor guy on interest from his savings account paying a pitiful .03% interest.

John Prine said it best: it's a big old goofy world.

[Tony T]

It won't be. A bunch of his supporters vandalized and wrote Nazi symbols and more in Philly.

No, a bunch of Anti-Trump protestors did that.
"Spray-painted swastikas, racist graffiti and references to Donald Trump and Nazi Germany have appeared on a South Philadelphia storefront and elsewhere."

[Rada]

Dems didn't turn out in some key swing states. Clinton narrowly won the popular vote with Trump taking just 47%. Trump actually had fewer votes than Romney or McCain.

[William]

Thank you to many of the members for keeping the political discussion on this post election day mostly on a civil level. As you know political discussions are generally not allowed on the Paceline, but we decided to make an exception (as long as it remained civil) to allow folks to discuss the very interesting turn of events that has just occurred here in America.

That said, we will be closing down the political threads tonight at 9 p.m. EST and resuming the regularly scheduled program here at the Paceline.

Thank you for your participation and support!






William



Thank you for your participation and for the most part keeping it civil. The Paceline forum is full of a great bunch of people! Now, back to your bikes!




William