Are Smart Trainers Worth It

[tjk23]

I currently have a Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer and am thinking about getting a smart trainer. Just wondering if there would be any real benefit.

[sandyrs]

Without context there is no possible way to answer that question. What kind of workouts do you do? Apps? That sort of thing.

[eBAUMANN]

yea, its a power meter also...and you can use it with zwift to make your trainering experience about 3000x's more entertaining.

the way i look at it:

a wheel-off trainer will run you around $400 or so
a wheel-off smart trainer (like a kickr) will set you back around $400 more if you can find a nice used one.

so an extra $400 for a power meter and all the other smart trainer features...pretty worth it if you ask me, especially if you plan on making riding it a consistent part of your schedule.

[Luwabra]

i got a revolution and buds got kickr's. they love the zwift, quietness, power, etc etc. even at cost that thing is a lot of money. im happy with how mine feels.. i train with a stages so all else being what it is, im giving up noise, app controllable workouts, and proper zwifting.

[rwerkudara]

I currently have a Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer and am thinking about getting a smart trainer. Just wondering if there would be any real benefit.

https://kurtkinetic.com/products/smart-control-resistance-unit/

[tjk23]

Without context there is no possible way to answer that question. What kind of workouts do you do? Apps? That sort of thing.

I use a combination of Trainneroad and Sufferfest right now.

[nate2351]

I was a strict rollers guy, I never rode the Kurt my wife got before we met. Now with a Wahoo Kickr I spend more time on the trainer. I even consider riding it on dry days because the training is so concise.

[MattTuck]

SmartTrainers are the next phase in the slippery slope toward the wussification of society today. It is a microcosm of the cultural ills that are writ large on our cable news networks. Consumption of vapid content under the guise of entertainment. So, no, they are not worth it. HTFU. Ride rollers in the basement, like Eddy.

Now I will begin listing the names of the great champions of our sport that did not use smart trainers.

Coppi
Bartali
Merckx
Hinault
Anquetil
Kelly
....
de vlaeminck
Binda
Moser
Museeuw



I'm kidding of course :beer:

[superbowlpats]

;) absolutely worth it. i had a KK for a while, hardly ever used it (yes I'm a wuss, not dedicated...). sold it, bought a used Computrainer, set it up with Trainerroad and never regretted it. Usually my problem is that my fitness peaks at the end of winter/spring indoor training because I'm not consistent outdoors during the summer (not to mention cars, stop lights, etc):crap:

[mavic1010]

I had the revolution and now the Kickr. To me, night and day when using 3rd party apps. I was using the stages powermeter with the revolution and its just not the same when doing zwift. I like my kickr giving me more resistance instead of me having to drop a gear to keep up the same power. It seems kinda backwards.

Don't know if I could pay over $1k for it...since I bought my 2nd hand, but so far it was well worth the investment.

[tjk23]

I use my trainer year round. Due to time constraints I only get outdoors on the weekends. I have been happy with the Kurt Kinetic for the past 8 years, just with new technology I was wondering what the real value of the switch would be? Does anyone who switched from a "dumb" trainer to a smart one feel like they can tell the difference with their fitness? I'm not talking about the motivation to ride on the trainer, but a measurable difference on the road.

[OtayBW]

I am on the bubble right now and am seriously considering the Kickr. I find it excruciating to stay on a trainer or rollers for more than 30 minutes, I'm sorry to say. Keep talking...push me over the edge.....

One question: I'm trying to figure a good way to go for controlling that thing with e.g., Zwift or Cycleops Virtual Training. I've always been a PC guy, but I don't really feel like plunking down another ~$0.75-1K for a laptop with suitable graphics capability. Option B is an iPad or something, but it's so itty-bitty. Any thoughts/recommendations?

Thanks! :banana:

OtayBW the wuss....

[oldguy00]

I am on the bubble right now and am seriously considering the Kickr. I find it excruciating to stay on a trainer or rollers for more than 30 minutes, I'm sorry to say. Keep talking...push me over the edge.....

One question: I'm trying to figure a good way to go for controlling that thing with e.g., Zwift or Cycleops Virtual Training. I've always been a PC guy, but I don't really feel like plunking down another ~$0.75-1K for a laptop with suitable graphics capability. Option B is an iPad or something, but it's so itty-bitty. Any thoughts/recommendations?

Thanks! :banana:

OtayBW the wuss....

Trainerroad is just a software interface, not a video game type interface like Zwift. Trainerroad can be run from an iphone or ipad, PC or mac. I've been using my kickr with trainerroad for almost 3 years now.....they are the best gear investment I've made in my 25 years in cycling.......and I'm a total gear whore!

[djg21]

yea, its a power meter also...and you can use it with zwift to make your trainering experience about 3000x's more entertaining.

the way i look at it:

a wheel-off trainer will run you around $400 or so
a wheel-off smart trainer (like a kickr) will set you back around $400 more if you can find a nice used one.

so an extra $400 for a power meter and all the other smart trainer features...pretty worth it if you ask me, especially if you plan on making riding it a consistent part of your schedule.

You don't need a power meter (indoors at least) if you have a smart trainer. At least you don't with Computrainers, which are pretty old technology at this point. The Computrainer has what amounts to a built-in power meter. I've not used a kicker, but I assume that it is similar. My Computrainer works great, is pretty close to my Powertap G3 in terms of reporting power output, and works great with Zwift.

[oldguy00]

You don't need a power meter (indoors at least) if you have a smart trainer. At least you don't with Computrainers, which are pretty old technology at this point. The Computrainer has what amounts to a built-in power meter. I've not used a kicker, but I assume that it is similar. My Computrainer works great, is pretty close to my Powertap G3 in terms of reporting power output, and works great with Zwift.

Kickr is the same as computrainer only you don't need a rear wheel, no wheel slipping on a roller.

[stephenmarklay]

Trainerroad is just a software interface, not a video game type interface like Zwift. Trainerroad can be run from an iphone or ipad, PC or mac. I've been using my kickr with trainerroad for almost 3 years now.....they are the best gear investment I've made in my 25 years in cycling.......and I'm a total gear whore!


I have made $700 to spend on some gear and I was just looking at buying a Chorus group.

However, that won’t make me faster. So I think I am better off spending money to get faster.

I am also using Zwift and TR. Trainer road is what am using for actual working out and Zwift for more fun and extra miles. Its great for that longer ride too.

I am torn though as my Kurt Kinetic with the little power dongle works really well with TR. I Zwift I don’t get to feel the hills and I am sure I am missing out on some of the experience. Its hard to say if that will make me any faster however.

[sparky33]

HTFU. Ride rollers in the basement, like Eddy.



Now I will begin listing the names of the great champions of our sport that did not use smart trainers.



Coppi

Bartali

Merckx

Hinault

Anquetil

Kelly

....

de vlaeminck

Binda

Moser

Museeuw







I'm kidding of course :beer:

Ha!

I finally came to terms with the reality that I am not Merckx and will never be Merckx. That was tough to accept because, you know...so I nudge my meager talents along with a Kickr. It's great. More interesting than rollers for sure, and staying interested makes all the difference.

[Little Bill]

I use a Smart Trainer to motivate me to get in the basement during Dec-Feb. The typical trainer sucks awful (for me) and the smart trainer sucks slightly less. If you are able to be consistent with riding your bike through the winter, you set yourself up for spring/summer, and then bridging to winter again.

Coach>smart trainer (IMO)
Powermeter>smart trainer

[stephenmarklay]

Ha!

I finally came to terms with the reality that I am not Merckx and will never be Merckx. That was tough to accept because, you know...so I nudge my meager talents along with a Kickr. It's great. More interesting than rollers for sure, and staying interested makes all the difference.

Yeah that’s thats a tough lesson. I think folks get a little misguided on how fast they are not riding with really fast people.

To be a Merckx your like a Muhammad Ali or a Michael Phelps. Its just not even the same planet in terms of talent.

But it never hurts to dream even if your no longer young.

[stephenmarklay]

I use a Smart Trainer to motivate me to get in the basement during Dec-Feb. The typical trainer sucks awful (for me) and the smart trainer sucks slightly less. If you are able to be consistent with riding your bike through the winter, you set yourself up for spring/summer, and then bridging to winter again.

Coach>smart trainer (IMO)
Powermeter>smart trainer

This is a decision I am currently thinking about.

[Pierre]

I don't get the smart trainer thing. Why invest $ in winter training gear when you can stick to a dumb trainer and put the money towards a crank-based or pedal based power meter that you can use year round? I use TR with a hub-based power meter on a dumb trainer and find the TR experience to be quite pleasant (watching Netflix at the same time probably has something to do with it).

Having said all this any investment that will increase the likelihood of you getting on the trainer is probably a decent purchase.

[superbowlpats]

I don't get the smart trainer thing. Why invest $ in winter training gear when you can stick to a dumb trainer and put the money towards a crank-based or pedal based power meter that you can use year round? I use TR with a hub-based power meter on a dumb trainer and find the TR experience to be quite pleasant (watching Netflix at the same time probably has something to do with it).

Having said all this any investment that will increase the likelihood of you getting on the trainer is probably a decent purchase.

For me its all about ERG mode. I can focus on Netflix and the pain in my legs and not worry about shifting gears to make it harder, hitting the correct power levels for the right duration etc.

[makoti]

Not if you only use it to hang clothes on.

[stephenmarklay]

I don't get the smart trainer thing. Why invest $ in winter training gear when you can stick to a dumb trainer and put the money towards a crank-based or pedal based power meter that you can use year round? I use TR with a hub-based power meter on a dumb trainer and find the TR experience to be quite pleasant (watching Netflix at the same time probably has something to do with it).

Having said all this any investment that will increase the likelihood of you getting on the trainer is probably a decent purchase.

I really don’t think that it is a bid deal unless you are using Zwift. With TR I am fine with my dumb trainer. But in Zwift I am not getting the full experience.
However, I am really using Zwift to complement my TR program and I don’t consider it to be my main training.

[bewheels]

Perhaps I missed it on this thread already, but there are different levels to smart trainers.

Some provide data such as power and speed.
Some provide data and are in sync with programs like Zwift...meaning if the program has you going up a hill, the trainer increases resistance.

Just make sure you know what you are after.

[stephenmarklay]

Perhaps I missed it on this thread already, but there are different levels to smart trainers.

Some provide data such as power and speed.
Some provide data and are in sync with programs like Zwift...meaning if the program has you going up a hill, the trainer increases resistance.

Just make sure you know what you are after.

I think the convention nowadays is to call trainers that can be controlled by the programs i.e. Zwift, Trainer road “Smart"

I have a Kurt Kinetic with the Inride power dongle. The dongle has a spin down calibration so the power number is pretty accurate. That is a very good $/features “dumb” trainer setup. It cannot be controlled so you have no sensation of a real ride that Zwift offers. In trainer road I don’t mind it at all.

[bewheels]

I think the convention nowadays is to call trainers that can be controlled by the programs i.e. Zwift, Trainer road “Smart"

....

While I certainly agree that the difference between "smart" trainers and non-smart trainers should be that a program like Zwift controls the resistance of the trainer, not all trainers with the "smart" label on them do. There are several that just act as a power meter (like your example).

Unfortunaly when in the market for the trainers, one can not assume a "smart" trainer will have everything someone might be looking for. Need to read the label...

[kramnnim]

I don't like Zwift to control my trainer to match the virtual hill, too much shifting for no reason.

I like erg mode, though.

For anyone considering a Tacx smart trainer- check the German sellers like bike-discount.de

[stephenmarklay]

While I certainly agree that the difference between "smart" trainers and non-smart trainers should be that a program like Zwift controls the resistance of the trainer, not all trainers with the "smart" label on them do. There are several that just act as a power meter (like your example).

Unfortunaly when in the market for the trainers, one can not assume a "smart" trainer will have everything someone might be looking for. Need to read the label...

Your right. Companies like Kurt Kinetic (which is a good dumb trainer) are trying to capitalize on the naive buyers by calling there trainers smart. Shame on them using that tactic.

Again you are right Caveat emptor.

[stephenmarklay]

I don't like Zwift to control my trainer to match the virtual hill, too much shifting for no reason.

I like erg mode, though.

For anyone considering a Tacx smart trainer- check the German sellers like bike-discount.de

Ah good to know. I was wondering about that today. I was riding in a hard group on the London Classique course. It has one shorter grade and I would just up my spin form about 95 to 105 to get my power up.

I wondered if everyone was just shifting like crazy. I guess shifting like crazy is more realistic.

Does it seem to slow you down riding in ERG mode on the hills?

[kramnnim]

Zwift speed is based on watts, you may be slower than people who are using smart trainers in sim mode since they generally are applying more power on the "hills" due to the increase in resistance.

[stephenmarklay]

Zwift speed is based on watts, you may be slower than people who are using smart trainers in sim mode since they generally are applying more power on the "hills" due to the increase in resistance.

Yeah I have to spin up a lot as everyone tears up the hills. That is pretty real world though.

[oldguy00]

I don't get the smart trainer thing. Why invest $ in winter training gear when you can stick to a dumb trainer and put the money towards a crank-based or pedal based power meter that you can use year round? I use TR with a hub-based power meter on a dumb trainer and find the TR experience to be quite pleasant (watching Netflix at the same time probably has something to do with it).

Having said all this any investment that will increase the likelihood of you getting on the trainer is probably a decent purchase.


This is a good point. If mentally, you can force yourself to push the power numbers that the graph is telling you to push, then you are fine with a power meter instead of a smart trainer.
For other folks, including me, I prefer a trainer that does the thinking for me
and forces me to push the resistance that the workout is calling for.
Of course the best option is to have both. Prices are dropping all the time. You could buy yourself a used computrainer for 500-600, and get a stages crankarm for about 500, best of both worlds. If you don't want a used trainer, then look at the Wahoo Snap.

[baker]

FYI Nashbar has amazing deals on the Kinetic Road Machine Smart Control today -- 24% off $649 < $500! :banana:

[stephenmarklay]

FYI Nashbar has amazing deals on the Kinetic Road Machine Smart Control today -- 24% off $649 < $500! :banana:

I had read that KK is not using the ANT+ FE-C protocol as others. You may want to verify that.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-ant-fe-c-and-bike-trainers.html

[baker]

I had read that KK is not using the ANT+ FE-C protocol as others. You may want to verify that.

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-ant-fe-c-and-bike-trainers.html

I read that too. It's disappointing for the reasons DCR gives (standardization, mainly) but I decided it doesn't really matter for my own day to day use.

[stephenmarklay]

I read that too. It's disappointing for the reasons DCR gives (standardization, mainly) but I decided it doesn't really matter for my own day to day use.

I really have liked my KK trainer. The fluid unit has been 100% reliable. Unfortunately, I feel like they not going to be a player by not having FE-C

[dumbod]

I've had a BKool trainer for almost two almost two years and swear by it. I used a KK for years but (1) got really bored by it and (2) I'm lazy and it's too easy to slack off on it. The smart trainer solved both of those problems so I am much less likely to skip a session and the sessions are more beneficial. I even think that it has made me a better ride because I've learned to become more proactive in my shifting and how to pace myself better.

The BKool has a couple of advantages over the competition - it's significantly cheaper ($300 less than the Kickr when I bought it), because it uses gravity to set the tension, the set up is really easy, it disassembles which means I can use it in both our homes, and it connects using Bluetooth which means I can easily use a computer or my iPad (although no cadence or HR using Bluetooth.) It's also the quietest trainer I've ever had.

It does have some disadvantages. You're pretty much limited to using the BKool courses but there are several thousand of them so that's not a problem for me. Also, I'm told that the simulated power meter is less accurate than one that is mounted on the bike but that's not really a factor for me as long as the simulation is consistent. Finally, standing climbs are little kludgy because the device depends on gravity to maintain the connection between the wheel and the flywheel.

I recommend it highly.

[baker]

I really have liked my KK trainer. The fluid unit has been 100% reliable. Unfortunately, I feel like they not going to be a player by not having FE-C

I don't think it will matter much to the end user, honestly. You can still use Zwift and Trainerroad. Some other apps may not be supported (yet) but I don't use those anyway.

Maybe relevant is the fact that they use their own Bluetooth protocol. To me this suggests that the open Bluetooth protocol could be implemented with just a firmware update if they get enough pushback (highly speculative).

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/kinetic-smart-control-trainers.html

[stephenmarklay]

I don't think it will matter much to the end user, honestly. You can still use Zwift and Trainerroad. Some other apps may not be supported (yet) but I don't use those anyway.

Maybe relevant is the fact that they use their own Bluetooth protocol. To me this suggests that the open Bluetooth protocol could be implemented with just a firmware update if they get enough pushback (highly speculative).

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/kinetic-smart-control-trainers.html


I think it matters. Take me as a current very happy KK user. I would not consider their proprietary trainer. I bet there are others like me. If they would have included standard protocol such as FE-C I would have likely bought one.