Rims rims rims

[mwynne]

Got some 32h WI hubs to get laced up for the new bike. Top choices are currently H+Son Archetypes (http://hplusson.com/products/archetype), Easton R 90 SL (https://www.eastoncycling.com/products/details/r90-sl-rim), DT RR411 (https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Rims-Road/RR-411).

Anything else I should seriously consider? Planning to run 28mm tires of some fashion - oodles of room in this frame!

[mktng]

HED Belgium

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[oldpotatoe]

Got some 32h WI hubs to get laced up for the new bike. Top choices are currently H+Son Archetypes (http://hplusson.com/products/archetype), Easton R 90 SL (https://www.eastoncycling.com/products/details/r90-sl-rim), DT RR411 (https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Rims-Road/RR-411).

Anything else I should seriously consider? Planning to run 28mm tires of some fashion - oodles of room in this frame!

Archetypes way beefier than the DT411(420 grams). Not sure they are available yet in the US either..

Other choices..in no particular order
Velocity A23(rear OC)
DT440(rear OC)
Pacenti Evolve(rear OC)

My favorites in order.

DT440
H+Son
A23

Altho very close when seeing resulting wheelset built.

No builds yet with Pacenti
Not sure what you get with the increased $ of HED(altho nice rims) but pricey.

[mwynne]

For some reason, and I genuinely have NO IDEA WHY, I have a poor perception of Velocity rims. I've never used them, never known anyone personally who has, so I've got no idea where that perception comes from.

I've got a set of 32h Archtype wheels on another bike and I quite like them, I'd peg them as pretty good value for money, so they're at the top of my list so far.

[Luwabra]

I'm quite happy w the us made a23 tubeless friendly rim. I did a value build w dt350 hubs and they have proven to be excellent setup tubeless. My wheel builder was apprehensive about it being a Belgium advocate and bc he knows how I ride but was surprised and impressed by how they built up.

[jambee]

To answer your velocity rims question:
http://nomusic.net/new-rims/

[oldpotatoe]

For some reason, and I genuinely have NO IDEA WHY, I have a poor perception of Velocity rims. I've never used them, never known anyone personally who has, so I've got no idea where that perception comes from.

I've got a set of 32h Archtype wheels on another bike and I quite like them, I'd peg them as pretty good value for money, so they're at the top of my list so far.

When Velocity moved production to Florida from Australia in 2012..first offerings had some QC issues, no doubt but since about 2013 and to now, their rims, and I have built many, are very good quality, straight, round outta the box and make for great wheels.

And for right above, one guys opinion, and he didn't build the wheels..here's mine..I have build dozens(hundreds?) of wheels with Velocity rims..and one thing for sure, if the customer isn't happy, you will hear about it.
I have issues with maybe 3-4 rims from Velocity..Lots more with easton and stans..and mavic(openrpo specifically)...

[AJosiahK]

HED

yes they are a bit more costly but they are way more durable than that of Velocity or DT.

I feel sort of the same way about velocity rims, I WANT to like them but Ive seen so many come around with cracks and such. I have several sets of major tom tubulars which seem to dent pretty easily.

Pacenti do well, dont like the decals being stickers as they get in the way of the fine truing. Only have seen a few come back with problems

[mwynne]

HED

yes they are a bit more costly but they are way more durable than that of Velocity or DT.

I feel sort of the same way about velocity rims, I WANT to like them but Ive seen so many come around with cracks and such. I have several sets of major tom tubulars which seem to dent pretty easily.

Pacenti do well, dont like the decals being stickers as they get in the way of the fine truing. Only have seen a few come back with problems
If I do consider HED, C2 vs Plus? Dang that plus is a wide rim, gotta wonder if that would be ridiculous and impractical...

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[Luwabra]

I have a set of Belgium + sitting in the shop now waiting on parts to show up. I almost exclusively ride gravel so the volume is welcome for me but if your not into tubeless then the standard 23mm is great. I had a set of Ardennes c2 I ran for a couple years great wheels.

[bigbill]

I've got a rear wheel with an Easton R90 SL in 32H and a Record hub. It's a very high quality rim, a little taller and wider than a Pacenti SL23 V1 which is what I have on the front. I'd like to have a complete wheelset with them but not all my bikes would clear them with a 25mm tire.

[mwynne]

I have a set of Belgium + sitting in the shop now waiting on parts to show up. I almost exclusively ride gravel so the volume is welcome for me but if your not into tubeless then the standard 23mm is great. I had a set of Ardennes c2 I ran for a couple years great wheels.
Aye, this is for the pavement bike, so probably not going to bother with tubeless (though I have in the past)

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[stephenmarklay]

Has anyone built up the Flo 30 rims?

[mwynne]

I've got a rear wheel with an Easton R90 SL in 32H and a Record hub. It's a very high quality rim, a little taller and wider than a Pacenti SL23 V1 which is what I have on the front. I'd like to have a complete wheelset with them but not all my bikes would clear them with a 25mm tire.
They look damn good, and would clear fine on this frame I think, built with wide-ish rims and rubber in mind.

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[Fatty]

For some reason, and I genuinely have NO IDEA WHY, I have a poor perception of Velocity rims. I've never used them, never known anyone personally who has, so I've got no idea where that perception comes from.

I've got a set of 32h Archtype wheels on another bike and I quite like them, I'd peg them as pretty good value for money, so they're at the top of my list so far.

Well then why bother asking? But since you did here's my 2 cents.
Velocity that I have owned and wailed on Fatty style .
Deep V's. Super solid.
Synergy. Deep non-fade powder coat blue that match my Trek fuel perfectly.
A23 from Aussie land. Still great and true after bending rim back from a hit hard enough to put 5 holes in the tube.
A23 from Florida. Part of a machine built wheel with 105 hubs and DT butted spokes. Budget price, excellent performance.
So far so good with Velocity for me.
H Plus Son? Sure that they make great rims. In China. Would not be my first choice.

[oldpotatoe]

Well then why bother asking? But since you did here's my 2 cents.
Velocity that I have owned and wailed on Fatty style .
Deep V's. Super solid.
Synergy. Deep non-fade powder coat blue that match my Trek fuel perfectly.
A23 from Aussie land. Still great and true after bending rim back from a hit hard enough to put 5 holes in the tube.
A23 from Florida. Part of a machine built wheel with 105 hubs and DT butted spokes. Budget price, excellent performance.
So far so good with Velocity for me.
H Plus Son? Sure that they make great rims. In China. Would not be my first choice.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here but all the rims mentioned except DT and Velocity are made in Asia..not that that is a bad thing but more for info..AND a fair amount of lower end DT made in their factory in China.

[Fatty]

Not trying to beat a dead horse here but all the rims mentioned except DT and Velocity are made in Asia..not that that is a bad thing but more for info..AND a fair amount of lower end DT made in their factory in China.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, more like a choice. Where do you want your dollar to end up?

[jtbadge]

Really happy with two sets of Archetypes. To a lesser extent Belgium+.

Archetypes are really stiff and hold up to a lot of abuse. Can't even imagine how strong a 32h WI build would be.

[makoti]

I have 3 sets of wheels built with Pacenti rims, the original version. I love them. I'd suggest them every time.

[Web1111a]

do any of these mentioned rims have a weight limit?

[Lovetoclimb]

the new Pacenti rims look awfully choice

[tv_vt]

Never seen a DT411 before. They look nice, but if your hubs are 32H, then you're out of luck - website shows them available in 20, 24, and 28 hole only.

I think Hed Belgiums would be overkill with 32H hubs. They're really strong. How about Ambrosio Excellights? Or even Open Pros? DT 415 or 465 would be nice, too.

[donevwil]

I recommend HED Belgium Plus especially if you're going to be running 28s and are OK with the price. My favorite wheelset by far is my HED + on Campy set. Lighter, but seemingly just as durable as Archetypes and the added 2mm is noticeable on larger tires (I run Compass 28s and 32s). I also have wheelsets with Archetypes, TB-14s, A23s and regular Belgiums. If Pluses were available in a 36 I'd eventually replace my other wheelsets.

[woodworker]

I have the Hed + rims. They are my favorites, and nicer than the standards, and a bit wider. I love the look and, most importantly, the braking surface, which is the best braking surface that I've found. Durable, and really allows you to scrub speed.

The only trick is in mounting the tires since they are tubeless compatible. You have to move the outside bead into the center channel. If you don't do that, it's a PITA. If you do it, it's easy. They have a video on it just in case.

Just my two cents, and I know that others may have tested a greater variety of rims. But these are great, and you rarely hear any complaints from users.

[FlashUNC]

C2s are a pretty fantastic rim. I'd build them up 32 spoke in a heartbeat. The set I have have been flawless for 5 years now.

[Gummee]

Well then why bother asking? But since you did here's my 2 cents.
Velocity that I have owned and wailed on Fatty style .
Deep V's. Super solid.
Synergy. Deep non-fade powder coat blue that match my Trek fuel perfectly.
A23 from Aussie land. Still great and true after bending rim back from a hit hard enough to put 5 holes in the tube.
A23 from Florida. Part of a machine built wheel with 105 hubs and DT butted spokes. Budget price, excellent performance.
So far so good with Velocity for me.
H Plus Son? Sure that they make great rims. In China. Would not be my first choice.

I've built a few rims with Velocity rims over the years. Aeroheads, A23s, Major Toms, Escapes. All have been great. I haven't built a wheel with the US built stuff lately tho

I've built a few pair of H+Son TB14s and they turn out really nice for that vintage-looking build. Similar to the old Omega XL from Campy: slightly wider than an MA40

M

[steelbikerider]

I have both. Hard to beat the H Son Plus for the price. The HED Belgium rim is nice but costs twice as much. Both rims are easy to build up. In my limited experience, Velocities are hit and miss. The Escapes were really good, Fusions not so good, took a lot of fiddling to get right. Archetypes in 32 spokes with DT Revolution and DT Competition on the drive side would be an especially durable wheel at a reasonable weight.
I have always had good experience with Bike hub store.

[kittytrail]

It's not necessarily a bad thing, more like a choice. Where do you want your dollar to end up?

i prefer that my euros end up in the pockets of people doing a great job at making nice, original stuff be that Switzerland, Taiwan, Japan, Mexico or even the USA when possible. if they're in PRC so be it although with H+Son i'm not really sure they're really in Mainland China... :confused:

for crap stuff i won't give an eurocent whatever country it might come from. :D


forgot to add the Kinlin XR31 with an offcenter rim in the back as a nice, sensible choice from Taiwan.

[mwynne]

So, thinking about the HED Belgiums...

For tires in the ~25-28mm range, road calipers (frame is designed with excellent clearance), I'm thinking the Plus rims might be overkill, and the regular C2 a better bet?
Not so much for tire clearance/shape even, but thinking about extra-wide rims with non-skeleton campy calipers (though I may swap to a newer brake model at some point), any brake performance concerns?

[thwart]

So, thinking about the HED Belgiums...

For tires in the ~25-28mm range, road calipers (frame is designed with excellent clearance), I'm thinking the Plus rims might be overkill, and the regular C2 a better bet?
Not so much for tire clearance/shape even, but thinking about extra-wide rims with non-skeleton campy calipers (though I may swap to a newer brake model at some point), any brake performance concerns?

Depends on the frame/fork, of course.

I've run Belgiums with '25' Michelin PR3's (actually measure at 27-28 mm) on my Peg Duende with an Ouzo Pro fork and Campy Record non-skeleton brakes with good clearance. With salmon Kool Stops, amazing brake performance.

Currently have a set of Belgiums with 28 mm Schwalbe Ones mounted, running on an older LeMond steel frame with Campy Chorus monoplanars, with good clearance as well. Even with vintage pads the braking is very good.

[Black Dog]

So, thinking about the HED Belgiums...

For tires in the ~25-28mm range, road calipers (frame is designed with excellent clearance), I'm thinking the Plus rims might be overkill, and the regular C2 a better bet?
Not so much for tire clearance/shape even, but thinking about extra-wide rims with non-skeleton campy calipers (though I may swap to a newer brake model at some point), any brake performance concerns?

From what you have described the plus would be overkill.

[mwynne]

From what you have described the plus would be overkill.

That is what I'm thinking, and I appreciate the confirmation!

[ripvanrando]

I have several wheels with HED Belgium Plus and A23. I like the HED

25 mm tires like Conti GP4K sii or Vittoria Corsa G+ will puff up to 28-29 mm and their 28 mm big brothers will swell to 31-32 mm on the HED Belgium plus rims. It is a tough, strong rim. Mr rear was 28H Belgium plus on TABR and I'm guessing I hit about a billion potholes in Wyoming alone. Never a problem. Me, bike, and bikepacking gear went 225 lbs. I am not sure they are worth the money but they are good from my experience. I beat the living hell out that wheel and it survived just fine as did the front Flo60 Carbon with 20 spokes

Hit a pothole on a front 28H A23 and deformed the rim. Same with the 32H rear A23 AT A LATER DATE. I replaced both with A23 rims when each failed. I did not build the original set, so, maybe they were not built right.....spoke tension seemed low. The rebuilt wheels have been fine although I have not used them on bad roads.

[mwynne]

I have several wheels with HED Belgium Plus and A23. I like the HED

25 mm tires like Conti GP4K sii or Vittoria Corsa G+ will puff up to 28-29 mm and their 28 mm big brothers will swell to 31-32 mm on the HED Belgium plus rims. It is a tough, strong rim. Mr rear was 28H Belgium plus on TABR and I'm guessing I hit about a billion potholes in Wyoming alone. Never a problem. Me, bike, and bikepacking gear went 225 lbs. I am not sure they are worth the money but they are good from my experience. I beat the living hell out that wheel and it survived just fine as did the front Flo60 Carbon with 20 spokes

Hit a pothole on a front 28H A23 and deformed the rim. Same with the 32H rear A23 AT A LATER DATE. I replaced both with A23 rims when each failed. I did not build the original set, so, maybe they were not built right.....spoke tension seemed low. The rebuilt wheels have been fine although I have not used them on bad roads.

I wish I had the time and money to do some testing - compare profiles of a 25mm on Belgium Plus to 27/28mm on non-plus. I wonder if anyone's done this...

[bitt3n]

Are the HED hubs on Ardennes wheels decent, or is better to avoid them and build up Belgium rims with another hubset instead? (My understanding is that the Belgium and Ardennes rim are the same, though I might be misinformed.)

[NHAero]

I'm about to have some wheels built up with Boyd Altamont Lite rims, which is what Ergott recommended. Has anyone used those rims?

[Davist]

Are the HED hubs on Ardennes wheels decent, or is better to avoid them and build up Belgium rims with another hubset instead? (My understanding is that the Belgium and Ardennes rim are the same, though I might be misinformed.)

to pile on, does the rim recall affect the Belgiums? Went to look at site and first thing I saw is (Ardennes rim recall):

https://www.hedcycling.com/news/recall-notice

[iPaul]

From what you have described the plus would be overkill.

Question in regards to spoke counts for this rim? Can this rim really handle a 20/24 spoke count for a average sized rider? I'm 150 lbs and was thinking of building it up to a 24 count hub I have, or just go with a 45 mm carbon rim.

[woodworker]

Here are pictures of the Ardennes and the Ardennes+. I measured the tires at 26mm and 27mm respectively, but they're different tires--veloflex master on front and vittorio rubino rear. Both at about 80 psi.

[woodworker]

Pardon me. First time posting photos. Went in right side up but came out differently. :o

[Black Dog]

Question in regards to spoke counts for this rim? Can this rim really handle a 20/24 spoke count for a average sized rider? I'm 150 lbs and was thinking of building it up to a 24 count hub I have, or just go with a 45 mm carbon rim.

24 will result in a more flexy rear wheel; but at your mass it should work. The rim can handle this setup.

[weisan]

I understand that pals tend towards looking for the "best" but really, we live in the golden era of many, many excellent choices available to us.

Just this morning while riding, I noticed how the combination of my steel serotta, pacenti sl23 wide rims, lower tire pressures, 26mm specialized s-works turbo clincher tires all together contributed to what can only be described as the "magic carpet ride"...the thing literally floats and glides effortlessly, pretty amazing stuff.

I have got A23, Pacenti, HED C2, Archetype, Kinlin in my regular rotation.

They all worked.

The Pacenti is my favorite but I dislike...still do even though it's V2...the tightness of the tire mounting.

The HED goes out whenever I want peace of mind in less than perfect roads. It's literally bombproof.

The Archetype is built slightly more sturdy than necessary for someone of my weight so it serves mainly for loaded touring and gravel ride duties.

The A23 is my least favorite. For whatever reason, I don't like the way the wheel winds up, accelerates and maintains at speed. It just seems to take more work, might just be a matter of perception.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I also got a couple of DT rims...they are solid all-around, get the job done.

[stephenmarklay]

Question in regards to spoke counts for this rim? Can this rim really handle a 20/24 spoke count for a average sized rider? I'm 150 lbs and was thinking of building it up to a 24 count hub I have, or just go with a 45 mm carbon rim.

I doubt it would be an issue. I am on 20/24 archetypes at 190.

[oldpotatoe]

Question in regards to spoke counts for this rim? Can this rim really handle a 20/24 spoke count for a average sized rider? I'm 150 lbs and was thinking of building it up to a 24 count hub I have, or just go with a 45 mm carbon rim.

Let's say compared to a 24/28(8 spokes)...8 spokes weigh 2 ounces..28 grams per ounce..so a 24/28 adds about this weight(55 grams).

Is 24/28 or 28/32 more reliable, of course it is. If ya got hubs laying around but this idea to make a wheel, 'just strong enough..maybe'..instead of adding a few spokes to make a wheel 60 grams heavier but way more reliable..sorry, I know I'm a luddite when it comes to wheel design but....

[weisan]

The hardest part is seeking advice is knowing when and how to take it. Old pal had been building wheels since dinosaurs walked the earth, listen to him!

[iPaul]

Let's say compared to a 24/28(8 spokes)...8 spokes weigh 2 ounces..28 grams per ounce..so a 24/28 adds about this weight(55 grams).

Is 24/28 or 28/32 more reliable, of course it is. If ya got hubs laying around but this idea to make a wheel, 'just strong enough..maybe'..instead of adding a few spokes to make a wheel 60 grams heavier but way more reliable..sorry, I know I'm a luddite when it comes to wheel design but....

I'm really not looking at the count for weight savings. Just got a set of hubs I'd like to have fun over the winter and build up.

Just surprised the Belgiums come in such low spoke count for such a low profile. Guess I'll go deeper carbon.
Thanks.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm really not looking at the count for weight savings. Just got a set of hubs I'd like to have fun over the winter and build up.

Just surprised the Belgiums come in such low spoke count for such a low profile. Guess I'll go deeper carbon.
Thanks.

10-4..DT511 a good choice..

[iPaul]

Thank you! More question to follow as I get things moving. ;)

[Tony T]

I was interested in attempting my first build with the HED Belgium (not the +), but I couldn't find the justification for it being twice the price of the H Plus Son Archetype.

[mwynne]

I was interested in attempting my first build with the HED Belgium (not the +), but I couldn't find the justification for it being twice the price of the H Plus Son Archetype.

That is exactly where I'm at. I would really like to give the Belgiums a go, but the cost differential.

Edit: I'm just going to go with another set of archetypes. I like the profile, a smidge heavier than the Belgium's, but half the price. I can put the difference elsewhere...

[iPaul]

Looking to lace up some Belgium rims and was wondering if the holes come in from an angle and its impact on lacing? They say on the site they are drilled center line but the pictures look like they are on an angle? Wheels are to be 20 spoke radial
thanks

[bewheels]

I'm about to have some wheels built up with Boyd Altamont Lite rims, which is what Ergott recommended. Has anyone used those rims?

I have a set of his disc Altimont Lite wheels (hub and rim). They are. They are very nice. Great finish. Take a pounding without issue. He is doing a great job with his product and quality control.

[weisan]

The HED Belgium C2 wheel that I built is my everyday go-to wheel. 100% complete confidence in its durability and performance. I managed to find a rim for less than $100. Expensive but over time and for what it does, well worth it. During that same period, I also built a couple of wheels with H Plus Son, A23 and Pacenti. The Belgium comes up top of the class.

[oldpotatoe]

Looking to lace up some Belgium rims and was wondering if the holes come in from an angle and its impact on lacing? They say on the site they are drilled center line but the pictures look like they are on an angle? Wheels are to be 20 spoke radial
thanks

Look at the tire side. If they are offset, the tire side hole will be offset opposite the side the spoke should go to the flange. Cuz they are drilled outside in and if to left flange, tire side hole to right of centerline. If on the center, doesn't matter.

This pic looks like offset..so if hole on right of center, tire side, spoke goes to left flange.

[iPaul]

Thank you. I agree holes look offset on tire side but run center on rim side. Would that mean they are angled and I should run spokes as you mentioned, left offset tire side to right side of hub?

[Bob Ross]

DT 415 or 465 would be nice, too.

If only they still made them! :(

[oldpotatoe]

Thank you. I agree holes look offset on tire side but run center on rim side. Would that mean they are angled and I should run spokes as you mentioned, left offset tire side to right side of hub?

Yes, best path to hub for nipple and spokes.

[.RJ]

I just had my shop build up a set of wheels with the new Hope road disc hubs & easton R90SL rims - very happy with them. Rims are wide, setup tubeless easy, and the whole build is very stiff. I'm happy with them. Lots of good choices out there right now - being able to run low pressures tubeless (cyclocross) was my #1 priority, and the Eastons looked to be the best of the bunch there.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15179032_1143181465731220_4050590160974147426_n.jp g?oh=1c6d22975a11736afcfe91662e40bc98&oe=58BD0869

[iPaul]

With the front wheel done, it looks like I now need to reach out for a bit of help as I now have a question in regards to lacing my rear wheel straight pull GS hub.

Starting form the drive side when lacing, is it best to run the first set of spokes from the inside hub holes or the outside holes located on the flange? Thanks

[soulspinner]

If only they still made them! :(

ya. Ive had good luck with these at 165 to 170 pounds. Full diclosure I no longer can summon up much power......:crap:

[oldpotatoe]

With the front wheel done, it looks like I now need to reach out for a bit of help as I now have a question in regards to lacing my rear wheel straight pull GS hub.

Starting form the drive side when lacing, is it best to run the first set of spokes from the inside hub holes or the outside holes located on the flange? Thanks

Doesn't matter..24h, and 2 cross..first cross at hub, then if inside, under over..if the outboard hub holes, over then under. I probably do the inside ones first, then lace the outboard.

[DRZRM]

I was using HED Belgium on several bikes and liked them. I've now build 3 wheelsets with V2 Pacenti SL23 and love them. Easy build, set up tubeless, not too hard to get tires on in the shop or the field. The new offset rims look nice too.

[Tony T]

Thank you. I agree holes look offset on tire side but run center on rim side. Would that mean they are angled and I should run spokes as you mentioned, left offset tire side to right side of hub?

Yes.
I was also confused with this on my Archetypes. Put in one spoke and screw in a nipple and you will see the direction that spoke takes.
Musson covers this in his book:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697930679&stc=1&d=1479822738
See also: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=196499

[iPaul]

Thanks all for the help. I think I'm on the right track now. Just a small stumble but all are now laced and on to part two.

[Fatty]

DT Swiss RR511. Like $50 a pop at StarBike.com .