Pacenti's new rims detailed.

[ergott]

FINALLY! I can mention these. I've been riding a set of the Forza rims for a few months now. They are an improvement in all ways and combine the best attributes of the SL23 versions.

It's worthy to note that manufacturing was also moved to a different supplier for better quality control. Tires are easy to mount, the brake tracks are a healthy width, they build up consistently round with even tension, and the rear is offset which really helps in tubeless applications.

http://us8.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c28f3c4f9b6d77a2048b56ebc&id=8caf1a4410

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/The-bikes/i-wPChDRp/0/X2/20160730_091143-X2.jpg

[MattTuck]

Eric,

Totally unrelated. Who is using that flag logo? That is a great symbol of this country, I'm interested to know if it is a certain builder.

[saab2000]

Awesome! Details? Availability?

Sorry... missed the link.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qUH2sD4GWB0/UUn5xBphLjI/AAAAAAAAA2o/MMYWv7n8sNw/s1600/thumb-up-terminator+pablo+M+R.jpg

[ergott]

Eric,

Totally unrelated. Who is using that flag logo? That is a great symbol of this country, I'm interested to know if it is a certain builder.

It was a one off label for a custom build Spooky did. There were complications and the customer didn't end up purchasing the frame so I picked it up. It was a good match for me and since Frank Wadelton built it (Frank the Welder) I knew it would be a great frame.

[jtbadge]

I saw the email this morning and was hoping these were an improved SL23. Trying to find the right rim brake tubeless rim for my new cross/all-road bike.

[cp43]

FINALLY! I can mention these. I've been riding a set of the Forza rims for a few months now. They are an improvement in all ways and combine the best attributes of the SL23 versions.

It's worthy to note that manufacturing was also moved to a different supplier for better quality control. Tires are easy to mount, the brake tracks are a healthy width, they build up consistently round with even tension, and the rear is offset which really helps in tubeless applications.

http://us8.campaign-archive2.com/?u=c28f3c4f9b6d77a2048b56ebc&id=8caf1a4410


Can you elaborate on this part? I get that offset is good, for move even left side to right side tension, but why does tubeless vs tubes play into it?

Thanks,

Chris

[ergott]

Tubeless tires are known to bring the tension of the spokes down when installed. If you try to compensate too much you end up with tension any rim can fail from. If you don't try to compensate for the tension loss you end up with left side spokes with very low tension. An offset rim will have higher tension on the left in proportion to the right and they will be less likely to go slack or fail prematurely.

[cp43]

Tubeless tires are known to bring the tension of the spokes down when installed. If you try to compensate too much you end up with tension any rim can fail from. If you don't try to compensate for the tension loss you end up with left side spokes with very low tension. An offset rim will have higher tension on the left in proportion to the right and they will be less likely to go slack or fail prematurely.

I was not aware that tubeless systems did that. Thanks for the info!

Chris

[hollowgram5]

I saw the email come out this morning as well. I've got a v2(?) set of SL23s and like them pretty well. hopefully these will be even better.

I guess more details tomorrow, since they aren't showing yet on the website today...

[daker13]

Are these the first Pacenti non-disc-only rims? Look very cool.

[Mark McM]

Tubeless tires are known to bring the tension of the spokes down when installed.

I fail to see how or why a tubeless tire causes any difference in spoke tension reduction compared to a standard clincher. All bias ply tires (tubulars, clinchers with or without tubes) all cause spoke tension reductions when inflated.

[sandyrs]

Are these the first Pacenti non-disc-only rims? Look very cool.

No, the SL23 and PL23 (i.e. the rims these are updating...) were both for rim brakes.

[Black Dog]

I fail to see how or why a tubeless tire causes any difference in spoke tension reduction compared to a standard clincher. All bias ply tires (tubulars, clinchers with or without tubes) all cause spoke tension reductions when inflated.

This is my question too.

[ergott]

I fail to see how or why a tubeless tire causes any difference in spoke tension reduction compared to a standard clincher. All bias ply tires (tubulars, clinchers with or without tubes) all cause spoke tension reductions when inflated.

The kevlar bead in tubeless tires is usually tighter (smaller circumference) and won't stretch like a standard bead can. They are more likely to compress the rim when snapped onto the bead shelf. I've measured tension drops of 50kgf for driveside tension on one rim (not Pacenti, but a carbon rim). The forces when the bead is in place are huge.

[ColonelJLloyd]

The kevlar bead in tubeless tires is usually tighter (smaller circumference) and won't stretch like a standard bead can. They are more likely to compress the rim when snapped onto the bead shelf. I've measured tension drops of 50kgf for driveside tension on one rim (not Pacenti, but a carbon rim). The forces when the bead is in place are huge.

So this is an issue with "tubeless ready" tires themselves and would be present even if one were using tubes with them, correct?

[weiwentg]

I've been enjoying my SL23s since 2012 or so. It's great to see Pacenti keep refining the product like this!

[r_mutt]

So this is an issue with "tubeless ready" tires themselves and would be present even if one were using tubes with them, correct?

this would mean you actually got a tube and tire onto the rim without ripping the tube to shreds. did this actually happen? this is why i gave up on road tubeless.

[ColonelJLloyd]

this would mean you actually got a tube and tire onto the rim without ripping the tube to shreds. did this actually happen? this is why i gave up on road tubeless.

I've used Compass Switchback Hills with tubes on Blunt SS rims. No issues.

[daker13]

No, the SL23 and PL23 (i.e. the rims these are updating...) were both for rim brakes.

Thanks. Funny, I thought I looked over the Pacenti site pretty well and even looked at those specific models but couldn't find any for rim brakes... but I've only built one set of wheels and probably misread it.

[ergott]

I've talked to enough industry people and tubeless is coming to a head soon. The first and biggest problem is that (unless someone tells me otherwise) tire manufacturers aren't/can't make the circumference of the tire bead to the tolerance that's acceptable to create the ideal interference fit with a rim. Rims are very easy to make to high tolerances and this can be seen by the relative consistency of a rim's ERD among many samples. I've seen enough sample variation from tire companies and even read about the results. How many times has someone complained of a tight fitting tire only to have 5 people tell them they don't experience the same problem? I read about it all the time.

If tires can be made to the same tolerance then rim companies can have a "standard" tubeless bead shelf diameter to create a moderate interference fit that doesn't compress the rim to the point of significant tension loss. It's not something that should be patented and licensed. It should be an ISO standard just like other rim dimensions.

Right now, you read about people's experiences and they are all over the map. Some love it and never have a problem. Other people have had one really bad experience sour them on the technology altogether.

Best part, sorting this all out will have no negative effect on people that wish to continue with tube/tire setups.
:beer:

[ergott]

So this is an issue with "tubeless ready" tires themselves and would be present even if one were using tubes with them, correct?

If I'm reading you right, it's less of an issue with standard clinchers. Some might be a tight fit initially, but most tire beads break in and become easier to mount/dismount. That would result in less tension loss as well. There is some tension loss with any tire installed on a tubeless rim. It's an interference fit and you know it by hearing the bead of the tire "snap" into place as you pressure it up.

[Keith A]

This new rim design sounds great. Glad to hear they went with an offset rear. Kudos to KP and his team.

[Mark McM]

The kevlar bead in tubeless tires is usually tighter (smaller circumference) and won't stretch like a standard bead can. They are more likely to compress the rim when snapped onto the bead shelf. I've measured tension drops of 50kgf for driveside tension on one rim (not Pacenti, but a carbon rim). The forces when the bead is in place are huge.

Wow, that's a lot of circumferential force. The circumferential force exerted by the spokes is roughly:

Force = ( number of spokes ) x (avg. spoke tension ) / ( 2 x pi )

So if the wheel has 32 spokes and the avg. tension drops by 50 kgf, the tire bead is putting about 250 kgf (550 lb) of circumferential force on the rim.

So, tubeless tires are better because ...

[ColonelJLloyd]

Wow, that's a lot of circumferential force. The circumferential force exerted by the spokes is roughly:

Force = ( number of spokes ) x (avg. spoke tension ) / ( 2 x pi )

So if the wheel has 32 spokes and the avg. tension drops by 50 kgf, the tire bead is putting about 250 kgf (550 lb) of circumferential force on the rim.

So, tubeless tires are better because ...

How big of a deal is this in practice? Have MTBers been riding around on dangerously low tensioned wheels for the last many years?

[guido]

The MTN bike set is using 10psi... Not a lot of pressure there...

[ColonelJLloyd]

The MTN bike set is using 10psi... Not a lot of pressure there...

PSI is irrelevant to the issue according to Ergott.

But, your anecdote is misleading. People don't run 2-2.35" tires at 10psi.

[bfd]

OK, I must have missed it, but can someone tell me how wide this rim is and how much it weighs? Also, what is the cost and how soon will it be available?

Thanks!

[AngryScientist]

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c28f3c4f9b6d77a2048b56ebc/images/756fedf6-d2c0-48c7-8f62-18a247023bf1.jpg

excellent news. i've got a rear chris king hub in need of a rebuild and this rim is what i've been waiting for.

[nighthawk]

OK, I must have missed it, but can someone tell me how wide this rim is and how much it weighs? Also, what is the cost and how soon will it be available?

Thanks!

According to bike rumor:

"That makes them about 20-30g heavier than the SL23, but they are far more robust. They’re aimed at the road and cyclocross racer with a retail of $109 for the front and $119 for the rear."

http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/10/25/pacenti-updates-classics-replacing-new-brevet-forza-rims-2017/

[ergott]

Wow, that's a lot of circumferential force. The circumferential force exerted by the spokes is roughly:

Force = ( number of spokes ) x (avg. spoke tension ) / ( 2 x pi )

So if the wheel has 32 spokes and the avg. tension drops by 50 kgf, the tire bead is putting about 250 kgf (550 lb) of circumferential force on the rim.

So, tubeless tires are better because ...

Wheel in question was 24 spoke so about 200kgf.

[guido]

PSI is irrelevant to the issue according to Ergott.

But, your anecdote is misleading. People don't run 2-2.35" tires at 10psi.

2-2.35" tires on a mountain bike are the equivalent of 700c x 23 on a road bike. Most current mountain bike riders I know are riding 3" or larger at 10psi as the high end of the pressure scale...

[cinema]

yeah fwiw i ran 3" tires 7-8 psi front and 2.4" at 10-14 psi tubeless on wide rims

i really hope these new rims aren't a bear to mount tires on. a flat can take 30+ minutes to fix on the road with v2s

[DrSpoke]

This is from the RidingGravelForum by Guitar Ted ( http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/ ) and has some relevance to, at least, some parts of this thread. I've had very good luck with the new Schwalbe Pro-One series tires set up tubeless. They've all gone on by hand and have seated w/a floor pump. This on Campy Eurus 2-Way wheels. The Hutchinsons I had been using, since 2010, were very difficult to install and dismount. Regardless, the technology seems to be improving so don't make conclusions based on early technology.

"Dr Spoke is on the right track. Stan's- a product meant to convert non-tubeless tires to tubeless- uses a BSD (Bead Socket Design) which is slightly larger in diameter to accommodate for the comparatively imprecise bead measurements of folding bead, standard tires. This will allow you to convert them to tubeless with less fear of blowing the tire off the rim.

Tubeless design tires have much tighter (comparatively) specifications for bead diameter. And if the tire uses UST dimensions, the bead diameter is even a tiny bit smaller than a standard folding bead tire bead diameter to allow for an air tight seal with UST design/based rim designs. Remember- The differences are within a millimeter or less, but that makes a huge difference in how things actually fit.

WTB, GEAX/Vittoria and Michelin all adhere to UST based dimensions on their tires and it is a well known issue that these brand's tires do not work well- or at all- with Stan's based rims, which American Classic rims are based off of. Sun/Ringle' tubeless rims also use a Stan's based design/dimensions for tubeless rims, by the way.

So, if the Schwalbe G-One is based off a UST dimension for the tire bead, it would be no wonder that it doesn't fit the American Classic rim well, because they base their design off a Stan's dimension. I cannot confirm that Schwalbe is using this UST based dimension for their tire bead design, but it sounds like they are.

This is the trouble with tubeless tires at the moment- There are two major competing rim designs and tire manufacturers that either buy into using UST or fudge it so that they fit more rims than UST based ones. Some rim manufacturers shoot for a middle ground as well. The tire and rim folks are not going to freely share info regarding where their products fall in terms of fit either because that limits sales, which they are loathe to risk doing. Although some publicly do post this information, it isn't industry wide. Meanwhile, the consumer is left to sort it all out on their own dime.

RidingGravel.com has a tire finder guide, and with that we may start adding some info on tubeless tire fit. Perhaps a rim guide is in order as well. It's a monumental task, but we may give it a go.

Thanks for using the forum guys!"

[saab2000]

I don't ride tubeless at the moment.

A couple months ago I flatted on my V2 SL23s and got pressure up to normal and seated a tire with a Topeak mini pump. It was a Vittoria open CX clincher tire.

I used one lever to remove the tire and re-installed it with no levers. Started opposite the valve. The valve gets installed last and make sure the bead is in the channel.

I was surprised it seated properly with just a mini pump, but it did. I ride the 23mm Vittoria tires at 80-85 PSI with the wider rims. They're the closest to high-end tubulars that I have yet ridden, and better than garbage tubulars.

[ColonelJLloyd]

2-2.35" tires on a mountain bike are the equivalent of 700c x 23 on a road bike. Most current mountain bike riders I know are riding 3" or larger at 10psi as the high end of the pressure scale...

I believe you. But, are you saying that this decrease in spoke tension with tubeless ready tires that Ergott explained correlates or is otherwise affected by tire psi?

I'm genuinely interested because I'm choosing rims for a 650b wheelset that will run 2" tubeless ready tires that will be ridden on pavement more than single track and I think I'll be running a bit more than 10psi.

[makoti]

I used one lever to remove the tire and re-installed it with no levers. Started opposite the valve. The valve gets installed last and make sure the bead is in the channel.

This is everything. You can fight these rims (sl23's) all day (and lose), or you can make sure of this and life is easy.

[oldpotatoe]

I've talked to enough industry people and tubeless is coming to a head soon. The first and biggest problem is that (unless someone tells me otherwise) tire manufacturers aren't/can't make the circumference of the tire bead to the tolerance that's acceptable to create the ideal interference fit with a rim. Rims are very easy to make to high tolerances and this can be seen by the relative consistency of a rim's ERD among many samples. I've seen enough sample variation from tire companies and even read about the results. How many times has someone complained of a tight fitting tire only to have 5 people tell them they don't experience the same problem? I read about it all the time.

If tires can be made to the same tolerance then rim companies can have a "standard" tubeless bead shelf diameter to create a moderate interference fit that doesn't compress the rim to the point of significant tension loss. It's not something that should be patented and licensed. It should be an ISO standard just like other rim dimensions.

Right now, you read about people's experiences and they are all over the map. Some love it and never have a problem. Other people have had one really bad experience sour them on the technology altogether.

Best part, sorting this all out will have no negative effect on people that wish to continue with tube/tire setups.
:beer:

I think unless the 'big boys', Vittoria, Continental and Michelin, others, pony up for road tubeless..it will continue to be a niche market, IMHO, of course.

[ergott]

I wouldn't consider Schwalbe, Hutchinson, Panaracer, and Maxxis niche.

[oldpotatoe]

I wouldn't consider Schwalbe, Hutchinson, Panaracer, and Maxxis niche.

Road tubeless has been around for almost 15 years. Panaracer is big, but the number of road tubeless tires they make is small in comparison to their totals..same for the others. Continental and Vittoria both are on record as saying road tubeless offer little advantage, so the $ isn't going to be spent by them..is my point. If ya like road tubeless, groovy.

[ripvanrando]

I wish I knew about these rims a week ago. I would have waited instead of 650B HED Belgium plus.

WRT to tubeless......Schwalbe Pro One mount easily on some rims and not others but they still flat very often and the casings tear.....bring a spare tire. They roll nice but I have had many of them fail. Comass leak like a sieve and I would be very careful because the beads stretch on the Bon Jovis. I'm going to try the GB Green extra legere as it is tight and seems seated very well. As someone mentioned the tolerances are small.

[ripvanrando]

Road tubeless has been around for almost 15 years. Panaracer is big, but the number of road tubeless tires they make is small in comparison to their totals..same for the others. Continental and Vittoria both are on record as saying road tubeless offer little advantage, so the $ isn't going to be spent by them..is my point. If ya like road tubeless, groovy.

I am almost getting to that conclusion but a top of the line 650B butyl tube weighs 135-150 gr and latex is almost impossible to find for them. Sealant instead of tubes adds a margin of feel goodness while the rolling resistance is surely less. A huge PITA they can be.

If Vittoria does not believe in Tubeless, why is the Corsa Speed TLR the fastest tire on the planet?

[ergott]

Vittoria both are on record as saying road tubeless offer little advantage, so the $ isn't going to be spent by them..is my point. If ya like road tubeless, groovy.

Whoops!
https://www.vittoria.com/tire/corsa-speed-open-tlr/

[Mark McM]

Whoops!
https://www.vittoria.com/tire/corsa-speed-open-tlr/

Vittoria seems to be hedging their bets. They don't make any true tubeless tires (which have an impermeable inner liner), instead some of their tires are TLR (Tubeless Ready). TLR tires can either use an inner tube, or can be used without a tube but require a sealant to seal up the pores in the casing.

[ergott]

I like the concept of a tire that might end up being more supple/faster at the expense of requiring sealant. I don't know many people that run tubeless without the sealant to begin with. It kind of defeats one of the main advantages of the system (not having to stop for a puncture).

[ColonelJLloyd]

I like the concept of a tire that might end up being more supple/faster at the expense of requiring sealant. I don't know many people that run tubeless without the sealant to begin with. It kind of defeats one of the main advantages of the system (not having to stop for a puncture).

+1 Personally, I'm not interested in having a "true" tubeless system. I'm all good with a little Orange Seal in there.

[Keith A]

I like the concept of a tire that might end up being more supple/faster at the expense of requiring sealant. I don't know many people that run tubeless without the sealant to begin with. It kind of defeats one of the main advantages of the system (not having to stop for a puncture).I'm one that doesn't run sealant as this voided Shimano's warranty on the wheels...plus I've seen what some sealant can do to the rims. Somehow I lucked out to only have maybe 2-3 three flats with probably 10K to 15K miles on tubeless.

[ergott]

I'm one that doesn't run sealant as this voided Shimano's warranty on the wheels...plus I've seen what some sealant can do to the rims. Somehow I lucked out to only have maybe 2-3 three flats with probably 10K to 15K miles on tubeless.

Just run one strip of tape on the rim. Then sealant will never come into contact with the rim.

[Keith A]

Just run one strip of tape on the rim. Then sealant will never come into contact with the rim.Thanks for the input. What rim tape do you recommend?

[ergott]

Pacenti uses a very thin, blue tape that would work. You don't need any added thickness for strength, just to seal things off.

[oldpotatoe]

Whoops!
https://www.vittoria.com/tire/corsa-speed-open-tlr/

Yup, saw that..what happens when you don't get retail wet everyday. Still pretty niche-y, road tubeless.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Still pretty niche-y, road tubeless.

Meaning <32mm tires, right? I agree that with nice latex tubes available there isn't a compelling reason for me go tubeless with those size tires.

That said, I ride even fatter tires than that on the "road". Some of the pavement I ride is really bad.

[DRZRM]

Just my opinion. I don't quite understand the above math for it, but as someone who builds his own wheels and rides tubeless on road tires (Schwalbe One 25mm on Pacenti v2 SL23), gravel tires (32-35mm on Swalbe v2. SL23 rims) and MTB tires (2.25-2.4" tires on various rims from Stan's to 23i WTBs), all built on 32 hole hubs (I'm a big guy 6'3" 220 lbs.) the lower PSI on large MTB tires does not seem to impact spoke tension much (I've checked with a DT Swiss tension meter and the difference, IIRC, was well under 10% of tension. On the road rims the impact of inflation is much larger on spoke tension with both road and gravel tires, but the larger gravel tires that I run @ ~50-60 psi impact spoke tension much less than on road tires, which I inflate up to ~85-90 psi. IIRC, I lost something like 30% of tension on a road wheel when I inflated a 25mm road tire.

I generally now begin by building wheels to ~ suggested spoke tension, then once I have installed tires, I increase tension so that they are now at suggested tension with tires on and inflated. This was after having my first tubeless road tires lose tension and nearly come apart on my second or third ride (tightened spokes on road side and limped home until I could retension the wheel).

This retensioning is not necessary on MTB wheels, and likely would not be an issue for gravel tires, though I do it anyway. Sounds like there may be a rebuild for my rear wheels at some point in the future, I'll be much happier with the balanced tension offered by offset drilling.


I believe you. But, are you saying that this decrease in spoke tension with tubeless ready tires that Ergott explained correlates or is otherwise affected by tire psi?

I'm genuinely interested because I'm choosing rims for a 650b wheelset that will run 2" tubeless ready tires that will be ridden on pavement more than single track and I think I'll be running a bit more than 10psi.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Helpful, DRZRM. Thanks!

[ripvanrando]

Thanks. I finally now understand why my spokes all went loose after converting tubeless when in fact the wheel was fine with tubes. Drove me crazy but I had just written it off to a lousy wheelbuilder (me).

[oldpotatoe]

Meaning <32mm tires, right? I agree that with nice latex tubes available there isn't a compelling reason for me go tubeless with those size tires.

That said, I ride even fatter tires than that on the "road". Some of the pavement I ride is really bad.

Well, yes, in spite of forum input, most 'road' bikes are still in the short reach brakes, 25mm, maybe 28mm tire range.

[marciero]

Wow, that's a lot of circumferential force. The circumferential force exerted by the spokes is roughly:

Force = ( number of spokes ) x (avg. spoke tension ) / ( 2 x pi )

So if the wheel has 32 spokes and the avg. tension drops by 50 kgf, the tire bead is putting about 250 kgf (550 lb) of circumferential force on the rim.

So, tubeless tires are better because ...

I think I need a diagram. Spokes exert force radially, no? Is there a tangential component? With the "circumferential" force the cumulative effect of tangential contributions of each spoke? But now tangential component would depend on hub and spoke pattern, and would be small.. Also, circumferental force would seem not to decrease spoke tension.

[Mark McM]

I think I need a diagram. Spokes exert force radially, no? Is there a tangential component? With the "circumferential" force the cumulative effect of tangential contributions of each spoke? But now tangential component would depend on hub and spoke pattern, and would be small.. Also, circumferental force would seem not to decrease spoke tension.

It's the same principle as fluid pressure in a circular pressure vessel (such as a gas tank) causing tension stresses in the vessel walls, which is illustrated here:

http://www.mathalino.com/sites/default/files/reviewer-hydraulics/006-thin-walled-pressure-vessel.gif

In a pressure vessel, the gas pushes radially outward (force vectors p) on the walls of the vessel, putting the vessel walls under circumferential tension (force vectors T); In a spoked wheel, the spokes pull radially inward on the rim, putting the rim under circumferential compression. The principle is the same, but the directions are reversed.

When the spokes are tensioned, they elastically stretch. If the rim were to shrink (decrease radius), the spokes would un-stretch to some degree, and lose tension. If a tight tire bead squeezed the rim, the rim would shrink slightly, thus decreasing spoke tension.

[sandyrs]

It was a one off label for a custom build Spooky did. There were complications and the customer didn't end up purchasing the frame so I picked it up. It was a good match for me and since Frank Wadelton built it (Frank the Welder) I knew it would be a great frame.

I don't think that's quite right. My FTW Spooky has this label as well. Maybe it's a generation thing?

[ergott]

I don't think that's quite right. My FTW Spooky has this label as well. Maybe it's a generation thing?

Interesting.

[p nut]

Any new word about these rims? Can't seem to find any info anywhere.

Pacenti uses a very thin, blue tape that would work. You don't need any added thickness for strength, just to seal things off.

I'm assuming that's Scotch 8898 tape. My go to tape for tubeless stuff.

(I usually buy here)
http://www.truckerco.com/accessories--

[jtbadge]

Any new word about these rims? Can't seem to find any info anywhere.

+1

I'd love a comparison with the Easton R90SL and/or HED Belgium+.

[ergott]

Weights I've checked were in line with what's expected and they are available.

I've been in touch with Fairwheel a while back and there will be an update to the rim shootout that was done a few years back.

Until then, I can say that there are some great options. The Forza is one of the few to have an offset rear. That feature alone makes it tough to beat.

[Kirk Pacenti]

I am having some trouble updating the site. Feel free to email or call for more info.

Cheers,
KP

[Mr. Squirrel]

i am in love! mr. errrrrgot, where do you live and when do you ride? nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrel

[bigbill]

+1

I'd love a comparison with the Easton R90SL and/or HED Belgium+.

The wheelset that sees most of the miles on my BLE has a SL23 V1 in the front and a R90 SL in the rear. Both are nice rims with good braking surfaces. The Easton in the rear replaced a V1 SL23 that cracked at DS spokes. It sounds like the cracking issue is behind them but at the time, the Easton was available and I needed the wheelset. The R90 SL is 1mm wider and a little taller than a SL23 V1.

[ergott]

i am in love! mr. errrrrgot, where do you live and when do you ride? nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrel

There are already enough of you around here!

[stephenmarklay]

Weights I've checked were in line with what's expected and they are available.

I've been in touch with Fairwheel a while back and there will be an update to the rim shootout that was done a few years back.

Until then, I can say that there are some great options. The Forza is one of the few to have an offset rear. That feature alone makes it tough to beat.


Hmm I wonder if I could get away with that powertap gs hub with this rim?

[oldpotatoe]

Hmm I wonder if I could get away with that powertap gs hub with this rim?

Sure, why not? Any rim with matching hole number would work. OC rims included.

[ergott]

The offset rear would make it a great choice for that hub.

[stephenmarklay]

Sure, why not? Any rim with matching hole number would work. OC rims included.

I know the it would work in that sense I just meant since Ergott pointed out that hub does not have very good flange spacing and thus a weaker build.

I was thinking that the offset and the robust look of this rim my make the hub useable.

[oldpotatoe]

I know the it would work in that sense I just meant since Ergott pointed out that hub does not have very good flange spacing and thus a weaker build.

I was thinking that the offset and the robust look of this rim may make the hub useable.

'Some' have been building non OC rears and 11s RH flanged spaced rear for a long time with great success..OC is 'better' but that doesn't mean non OC is unusable. 135mm spaced rear road bikes would help a lot but with all the disc/axle/'standards' non sense, that isn't going to happen, IMHO.

Pick the right rim, enough and proper spokes, a PT rear would be a fine rear wheel.

[stephenmarklay]

Thank you.

“Pick the right rim, enough and proper spokes, a PT rear would be a fine rear wheel”

This question started in another thread where I was asking about the Powetap GS 24 hole radial hub. Ergott was kind enough to comment about that particular hub not having ideal flange spacing and would not build up into a very strong wheel. For sure a Powertap G3 hub that I can run 3x 32 would be fine but that hub is twice the money right now.

[ergott]

Pick the right rim, enough and proper spokes, a PT rear would be a fine rear wheel.

Key issue here is enough. The hub in question is limited to 24.

[AngryScientist]

are these new forza rims available to the public anywhere yet?

i have a rear wheel in need of a rebuild and an offset rear should be just the ticket.

[ColonelJLloyd]

are these new forza rims available to the public anywhere yet?

i have a rear wheel in need of a rebuild and an offset rear should be just the ticket.

Send an email to sales@pacenticycledesign.com or kirk@.

[oldpotatoe]

Thank you.

“Pick the right rim, enough and proper spokes, a PT rear would be a fine rear wheel”

This question started in another thread where I was asking about the Powetap GS 24 hole radial hub. Ergott was kind enough to comment about that particular hub not having ideal flange spacing and would not build up into a very strong wheel. For sure a Powertap G3 hub that I can run 3x 32 would be fine but that hub is twice the money right now.

I recently built a PT 24h rear..I'll have to look it up to see what rim I used but I 'think' it was a Archetype..haven't heard any issues..and one thing for sure, if somebody isn't happy, you'll hear about it..

[jtbadge]

are these new forza rims available to the public anywhere yet?

i have a rear wheel in need of a rebuild and an offset rear should be just the ticket.

Looks like the fronts are online @ Pacenti's website (http://www.pacenticycledesign.com/index.php/products/rims), but no sign of rears.

[stephenmarklay]

I recently built a PT 24h rear..I'll have to look it up to see what rim I used but I 'think' it was a Archetype..haven't heard any issues..and one thing for sure, if somebody isn't happy, you'll hear about it..

Funny :) The Archtype is a pretty beefy rim. I am on a 24 hole rear and I really should not be.

[jtbadge]

Funny :) The Archtype is a pretty beefy rim. I am on a 24 hole rear and I really should not be.

+1. I've been riding 24h front/28h rear Archetypes on road and gravel for thousands of miles with absolutely zero problems. I weighed about 230 when I started riding them.