Brim Brothers goes belly up

[Mark McM]

Brim Brothers, who has been working on a wearable power meter for a few years, has announced that they closing shop, without having delivered any product. No refunds will be given to those who donated to their kickstart project.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brimbrothers/the-worlds-first-wearable-power-meter-for-cyclists/posts/1717218

[Veloo]

Wow. Never really got into any fine print but didn't know you could get away with not delivering and not refunding on kickstarter.

[thegunner]

-.- i bought one. this is nonsense.

[45K10]

Ouch, people who gave them money understandably not happy

Cool concept though too bad they couldn't make it work

[mvrider]

They raised 183k euros, with a goal of 100k euros. Based on my experience, either figure is quite insufficient to develop a reliable tech product if living wages are taken into account.

Clearly, their claim was exaggerated:

We've done all the research and development, we've done all the production preparation and planning, and now it's time to manufacture the first batch and deliver to you.

[MattTuck]

That sucks for the people that gave them money.

On the other hand, Vector pedals.

[numbskull]

$690 per backer gone?
Ouch.
Points out the downside of kickstarter.

[bking]

No one should be surprised. Hasn't kick starter always been promoted as investment at risk?

[Neil]

I followed them from the start, thought long and hard about backing on Kickstarter but in the end decided to pay more for a production version.

As a concept I think it's a great idea, hopefully someone else can bring this to market.

[Black Dog]

$690 per backer gone?
Ouch.
Points out the downside of kickstarter.

It looks like 390 Euros a pop.

[kramnnim]

Surprise!

Said nobody.

[ultraman6970]

Good I have no money :)

bad that they could not deliver, the idea was great.

[purpurite]

Eff Kickstarter. Such a great idea with so little structure for protection of backers. I have done three, lost out completely on two and am sitting with twiddling thumbs while the third is now 3 months behind schedule. :crap:

The creator flakes out and takes everyone's money without saying a thing, they call you an "investor" and say that's part of the risk.

I'm done with Kickstarters. I'll wait for the invention to hit the market, get real world feedback then buy it. No reason to do it any other way.

[jlwdm]

Surprise!

Said nobody.

+1

Lots of big companies are selling power meters which makes it very difficult even if you have a good technology to get a product to market successfuly without substantial funding behind you. This is difficult to do with Kickstarter.

This is a lot different than buying some bike tools from Silca.

Jeff

[efaust_o]

glad I wasn't waiting on them...come'on P2M Black Friday discount....

[bicycletricycle]

kickstarter has tried to explain that they are not a store but a way to invest in people and/or an idea. I think they do not do a good enough job at this, or maybe just some campaigns don't do a good enough job explaining the risks. Most people think of and use kickstarter like etsy or something but with a longer wait time. Developing a complicated product like a power meter is no joke.

Investments are risky.

If you want to simply "buy" something get it from a "store"

still a loss for the people who invested but a loss they should have been prepared for.

[FlashUNC]

Kickstarter is betting on the folks who may or may not deliver. Nothing more, nothing less.

[purpurite]

Kickstarter gets their money no matter what, they don't care one way or the other.

[happycampyer]

The concept of kickstarter has fascinated me. Is it because people are buying a "product" in advance that hasn't been produced yet, as opposed to "investing" in the company, the reason why kickstarter offerings aren't considered securities offerings?

Curious what percentage of kickstarter projects/products fail to deliver.

[oldpotatoe]

Eff Kickstarter. Such a great idea with so little structure for protection of backers. I have done three, lost out completely on two and am sitting with twiddling thumbs while the third is now 3 months behind schedule. :crap:

The creator flakes out and takes everyone's money without saying a thing, they call you an "investor" and say that's part of the risk.

I'm done with Kickstarters. I'll wait for the invention to hit the market, get real world feedback then buy it. No reason to do it any other way.

3 months..I pre ordered one of these almost 3 YEARS ago..now 'early 2017'...only $35 but still..

https://patchnride.com/

[unterhausen]

Most people don't have the right experience to properly evaluate a project like this. They look at how much it costs and evaluate it like it exists. Maybe kickstarter needs a board of engineers and product developers to evaluate projects to see if a garage startup is going to be able to deliver. Nowadays it seems like a lot of kickstarters are established companies doing market research, I'm thinking of the Knog bell as an example. The projects that get a lot of people excited are exactly the ones that fail. There was the famous example of the computerized expresso machine. And you often see examples of products that will probably cost 1/2 mil to properly develop that are asking for $25k.

I tend to just ignore kickstarter for the most part. I look at projects like this PM, and think about the money I've spent doing engineering projects and just laugh. These guys were destined to live in their parent's basements the whole time. The only hope for a company in the PM market at this point is to get something that looks good and works most of the time and get bought by someone with deep pockets. But it's a pretty mature market at this point unless someone figures out how to make a pm that costs almost nothing or is revolutionary in some other way.

A PM is exactly the kind of system I like to work on as an engineer, so I understand the attractiveness of the problem. But when I ask myself, "how hard can it be?" I know there are dangers. And the problems companies have had with their first products bears this out.

[coffeecake]

Finally. Brim Brothers has delayed their product so much that it essentially became vaporware.

I wish they had succeeded because the idea is a good one.

[dumbod]

The concept of kickstarter has fascinated me. Is it because people are buying a "product" in advance that hasn't been produced yet, as opposed to "investing" in the company, the reason why kickstarter offerings aren't considered securities offerings?

Curious what percentage of kickstarter projects/products fail to deliver.

They can't be securities offerings because, until very recently, it was illegal to sell securities to the general public without SEC approval. And before anyone gets bent out of shape about "excess" regulation, consider the '20s. There was massive amounts of securities fraud in that uncontrolled market.

The law has changed somewhat to allow small, unregulated offerings. I teach courses on venture capital and entrepreneurship at a leading university. Without going into lots of boring detail, anyone who would buy one of those securities is out of their minds.

There's no problem with "pre-buying" a good but you should get a whopping big discount to offset the inherent risk. The 11% discount Brim Brothers offered was absurdly low.

You can interpret Kickstarter's silence on the success rate of projects in any way that you wish. Call me cynical but I can't believe that kickstarter wouldn't be shouting from the rooftops if it was any good.

[eippo1]

I've backed more than a few Kickstarter projects, but it really depends on the end goals, who is developing it, and where they are along the process. I backed the Lix pen because they had a manufacturer lined up and a design that had been prototyped multiple times with the goal of mass production.

I've also backed media projects such as books and compilations as those usually go through since the footage etc. already exists. However, I did back "The Commentator" and have yet to see anything happen with that one. I'd say you kinda have to know what to look for (re: above) in terms of it actually happening and have some patience going into it.

I'm happy with my Courg watch and really enjoyed the process on that one since the "maker" was kinda OCD and shared almost every detail of his entire process with everyone along the way. That's one of the things I enjoy the most out of many of these Kickstarter projects -- the projects that document and share their process and setbacks, etc. Almost as much fun as the finished product. It's kinda like having a project bike that was a ton of fun to get just the right parts, where the process is as exciting as the finished bike.

[benb]

PM seem like a really risky thing to back on kickstarter.

The thing is PMs were historically too expensive for most cyclists. It's a product a lot of us were aspiring to own for a long time, so it's tempting.

But trying to develop a PM on kickstarter is way riskier now than it was years ago. When the average price of PMs + associated computer hardware was $2000+ there was more room for a less effective risky product from kickstarter. Today when you can often get something that is a known quantity and mature product for < $500 there is a lot less room for a newcomer.

[tumbler]

It sucks to lose money, but early stage investing is pretty much a bet on success or failure, with failure being a very real possibility. This isn't unique to Kickstarter. The outcome is similar for any investor that backs a failed startup... sometimes it works, and sometimes they burn through your cash and you're left with nothing. I like that Kickstarter exists as an alternative to the traditional routes of self-funding, bank loans, etc. There are many successful campaigns that were backed and delivered through Kickstarter that never would have seen the light of day if the decision had been left to a bank loan officer. You just have to understand what it is and isn't.

[berserk87]

I was intrigued by the Brim Brothers system and was pretty set on throwing money down on it.

Thought about it for awhile and decided against it. I wanted to wait until some folks had given things some real world use before I bought. Heck, I don't even buy a groupset in the first year of issue because there are inevitable bugs to be worked out (see the Dura Ace 9001 shift levers).

Glad I decided to hold off.

[drewskey]

KS is a lot like pre-orders in the gaming world.. JUST DON'T DO IT.

[djg21]

I was intrigued by the Brim Brothers system and was pretty set on throwing money down on it.

Thought about it for awhile and decided against it. I wanted to wait until some folks had given things some real world use before I bought. Heck, I don't even buy a groupset in the first year of issue because there are inevitable bugs to be worked out (see the Dura Ace 9001 shift levers).

Glad I decided to hold off.

I was really hoping for the Metrigear Velocity system when it was Speedplay-based, and before Metrigear was purchased by Garmin. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tech-news-garmin-acquires-metrigear/, http://www.bikeradar.com/us/news/article/interbike-new-vector-power-meter-from-metrigear-23513/

I followed Brim Brothers, but the design didn't really appeal to me given the wires on the outside if the shoe. I'm really surprised that Speedplay hasn't jumped into this market somehow, even if just by licensing it's pedals for use by another company that already is making pedal-based power meters. I may have to give thought to giving up my Speedplays and switching to Powertap pedals.

[cinema]

KS is a lot like pre-orders in the gaming world.. JUST DON'T DO IT.

i saw this deal on amazon recently where if you preorder a certain game you can get it for 45$ as opposed to 60$. as a prime member. i thought it was a great deal

[unterhausen]

I wonder if Brim Bros has a patent or two that are worth something now. It's a pretty good idea.