Help me not screw up my cyclocross/travel-bike build

[bitt3n]

I just bought a used travel bike to make my biking in the French/Italian Alps, Pyrenees less complicated. (I am based in Cambridge, MA, and it's a bit of a hassle flying around with regular bikes.) The frame I bought is a used Seven Airheart, which is Seven's Evergreen cyclocross frame built with S&S couplers.

My goal is to build it up into something that will be decent both for road biking and racing cyclocross. I have little experience building up bikes (or actually riding road/cross bikes at all, since I mostly ride mountain when not on vacation) and I'm hoping to get some general advice so I don't do anything too dumb.

The frame looks like this:

http://i.imgur.com/JymzRd2.jpg

Group

I've already purchased a used Ultegra Di2 group with hydraulic brakes. (The rear brake line is externally mounted so I figure I can just take it off when breaking down the bike for travel rather than using a cable splitter on a mechanical brake line.) The etubes that will be arriving with the group I purchased (a takeoff from another frame about 1 cm larger than this one) are of lengths 950mm x 1, 750mm x 2, 500mm x 1, 350mm x 2. The specs of my frame are:

http://i.imgur.com/uN32f3X.jpg

From what I understand, these wires will fit, and the 950 mm will be for the downtube, one 350 mm is for the seatpost battery, the other is for the front derailleur, one 750 mm is for the rear derailleur, and the other 750 mm is for...? I'm wondering if there's anything I'm not considering. (I did realize that I have to buy a FD clamp, since my frame has no braze-on.)

Rims

As for wheels, given the specs call for a 35-40mm tire, I was thinking I'd build a pair of wheels on a set of used Enve 29er XC rims, which I can run tubeless, and seem to go for $300-$350 used. I'm not sure what spoke counts to get front and rear. I was thinking either 28 or 32, without any real facts to back this up.

I weigh about 170 and I carry about 30 pounds of gear on my back touring, so that's 200 pounds when touring, and I've been riding mostly in the mountains and not much on flats. I'd prefer to emphasize durability over light weight. The cyclocross would be just for fun. I'm wondering whether that would be a reasonable rim choice and what spoke counts might make sense given my requirements.

Hubs

As for hubs it appears DT 240s would be the obvious choice with Chris King being a possibility, but somewhat more expensive and a bit heavier. I'm not super concerned about high-performance engagement and light weight but reliability/serviceability would be pretty important. (I'm thinking of biking across the US next summer.) I've heard some people say centerlock rotors are preferable to six-bolt for travel because the latter can be finicky to get set up without their rubbing the calipers, and I'm wondering if that's actually a concern. It seems I have a lot more used options if I opt for six-bolt hubs. (The group I bought has centerlock discs but I could buy six-bolt.)

Once I settle on a hub/rim combo I'll probably have questions about tires and spokes, but I'll save that for later. I've built only one wheelset in the past but I've trued many wheels so I figure it'll be an interesting project.

Couplers

S&S appears to insist upon Finish Line Extreme Fluoro Grease for the couplers. Is this really necessary versus less exotic/expensive stuff?

I would also love any thoughts on issues I might not have considered since I am not particularly experienced with this.

[bewheels]

There are a lot of questions going on here...

First off, awesome frame and Di2 hydro group. I have a lot of first hand experience with a ti frame with Di2 hydro.

If you are not familiar with how the Di2 stuff works, and all the parts needed, do some searching and educate your self. While it is not rocket science, you do want to understand how all the wiring works, junction boxes, etc. Especially because you will need to add some disconnectors to a basic set-up. So get to know the basic set-up first.

Di2 and SS bikes - you are going to need some extra connector parts to be able to quick-disconnect (and reconnect) for packing.
Just so happens that Google is your friend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LL1fZXo82M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCfqMzBVz-c

Hydro disc - The plan to remove the calipers from the frame and fork for packing will work. A couple of things to keep in mind:
- Make sure you have plenty of appropriate sized zip ties to reconnect the hose to the frame. The Enve fork does not require them.
- Make sure you keep and use the orange spacer that is inserted into the pads when a wheel is removed. You don't want to be spending time prying the pads apart because the levers got pushed while the spacer was not in the open pads.

Centerlock vs 6 bolt - Centerlock would be my advise. Besides the fact that it is a great interface in this usage, I would highly advise removing the disc from the wheel for packing/shipping so that they don't get damaged. Centerlocks make this really easy to do. HOWEVER, make sure you have the correct tool. Not all centerlock hubs use the 'freewheel' spline tool. Some use a variation of a BB tool. Just make sure you know what you need and have the tool.

Packing - the ability to correctly/safely/tightly pack the bike is a case comes down to the case its self and practice.

That should get you going...

[sandyrs]

First bit of advice is to stick with center lock. Not just because it makes travel easier but also because shimano's best (aka the best period) rotors only come in CL.

I'd have advised to stick with cable actuated brakes for serviceability and parts availability should anything get mangled by the TSA but realistically you should be fine. I also would stick to aluminum rims. A carbon rim will resist more damage from travel but if it does take a huge impact getting tossed around on a plane and crack, you'll need to spend more to replace it and you won't be able to ride in the meantime. On that note, get 32 spoke hubs. Wheel damage isn't super rare with travel bikes and the more spokes there are, the less impact damage to one has.

[sandyrs]

Oh, and don't worry about running a tire narrower than 35mm. For road rides I wouldn't hesitate to run 25-30mm tires.

For cx just get a separate wheelset.

[572cv]

Couplers

S&S appears to insist upon Finish Line Extreme Fluoro Grease for the couplers. Is this really necessary versus less exotic/expensive stuff?

I would also love any thoughts on issues I might not have considered since I am not particularly experienced with this.

I have a Ti coupled Serotta which I have used on numerous trips to France. The fluoro grease really works well. Moreover, even though you have a high first cost, a little goes a long way. In other words, the initial supply lasts a really long time. First time use: distribute a thin amount over most or all of the threads on one side. After that, you really only need to use a little, then distribute it over the first few threads. I still have about a quarter of a tube left after my initial purchase .... 6 years ago.

On the couplers, a few notes. The tightening nut can get grit behind it over time, and should be flushed out maybe once or twice a year, esp. if you ride it in wet weather. You can tell by turning it around and listening to the sound. Gritty is obvious.
If you are riding, and hear a creak-creak seemingly associated with pedaling, just stop, and take out your coupler tool and tighten the one that has loosened. That is what will have happened!
As to that coupler tool, the ones that usually come with the bike are beefy little guys. S&S sells a light-weight one separately on their web site, and that is what I carry in my seat bag. much better.

I can't help with the other items, but hope this little refinement is useful.

[joosttx]

How would hydro brakes work with a SS coupler bike work when you break it down? I have never seen one and my gut feeling is it is not a good idea.

I have seen a Di2 SS coupler bike where a connector was used in the middle of the wires that made "decoupling" very easy.

[simonov]

Good tips so far. All I have to add is that, if that stem is a WCS C260, I'd suggest swapping it for a regular WCS stem. Depending on how everything fits in the case you may want to detach the bars from the stem and the C260 will make that pretty tough.

[hollowgram5]

I built my Vaya Travel full mechanical. I debated doing hydro disc for a while, but didn't purely because of costs at the time. It was initially set up Red 2012 and full 2x10 x9 drivetrain with an x0 crank.

Currently debate doing the swap to external Di2 to be able to swap between flat and road bars more easily.

[bitt3n]

Thanks to everybody for the advice. It sounds like I want centerlock hubs, probably 32h.



Di2 and SS bikes - you are going to need some extra connector parts to be able to quick-disconnect (and reconnect) for packing.
Just so happens that Google is your friend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LL1fZXo82M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCfqMzBVz-c

Hydro disc - The plan to remove the calipers from the frame and fork for packing will work. A couple of things to keep in mind:
- Make sure you have plenty of appropriate sized zip ties to reconnect the hose to the frame. The Enve fork does not require them.
- Make sure you keep and use the orange spacer that is inserted into the pads when a wheel is removed. You don't want to be spending time prying the pads apart because the levers got pushed while the spacer was not in the open pads.

Thanks, this just the kind of stuff I need to know.

Seems I might need to install that extra etube cable coupler in the downtube, though I'm curious why reapplying that tape/shrinkwrap with a lighter and cutting it off each time isn't more trouble than just passing the uncut etube back down through the downtube and plugging it back into the junction box. (It seems like those guys would have thought of that, so I imagine there must be some reason.)

On the couplers, a few notes. The tightening nut can get grit behind it over time, and should be flushed out maybe once or twice a year, esp. if you ride it in wet weather.

To flush it I'm assuming I'd just spray some WD-40 in there and wipe off the threads with a rag before applying the Finishline product? The prior owner apparently used Phil's grease so I'll want to get that all off.

How would hydro brakes work with a SS coupler bike work when you break it down? I have never seen one and my gut feeling is it is not a good idea.

My brake cable is external, so I'm planning on just unbolting the brake and coiling up the line. I did find a hydraulic brake-line splitter but it seems designed for a some sort of non-Shimano downhill brake and also it would be one more possible point of failure.

Good tips so far. All I have to add is that, if that stem is a WCS C260, I'd suggest swapping it for a regular WCS stem. Depending on how everything fits in the case you may want to detach the bars from the stem and the C260 will make that pretty tough.

It is a C260. My Ultegra-donor frame has a Thomson X2 stem I could use instead (although at 100mm I think it's probably too short). From what I read it's necessary to unwind the bar tape to swap out the C260 so that does seem like a problem if I actually need to remove the bars regularly. On the other hand the video posted by bewheels shows them leaving the stem attached, so I don't think packing it will require that.

Speaking of which, given I have a choice between using the installed Ritchey carbon seatpost and Zipp bars or a Thomson Elite post and Thomson road carbon bars from the Ultegra-donor bike, is there any reason to prefer one over the other for travel purposes? (The Zipp bars are 40 and the Thomson are 42. I'm not sure which would fit better although the frame is on the smaller side for my build.)

[572cv]

"To flush it I'm assuming I'd just spray some WD-40 in there and wipe off the threads with a rag before applying the Finishline product? The prior owner apparently used Phil's grease so I'll want to get that all off."

Depending on the timing and what else you are doing, you could use wd40 or just water if you have time for it to dry. I've done both. I have one of those Solo plant sprayers that I keep filled with water for washing the bike, or me, after a messy ride in the summer. That works great for a fine, steady stream of water while I turn the coupler and get it cleaned.

[sblackmacken]

I have an Evergreen (no couplers) and have not flown with it, but I have raced cross on it extensively so have a few notes.

Group - I think you have very little to worry about going Hydro. But bewheels advice around making sure to insert bleed blocks and bring zip ties is very good advice. That said if you don't have zip ties, bread ties or fishing line works just as well to secure the lines to the frame. In fact, you may find if you shoulder your bike in cx that the zip ties will scratch/cut your forearm and you'll prefer one of these methods to secure the hydro hose on the downtube. Also the places you intend to travel see a lot of MTB riders / roadies with high end bikes, so you will probably be able to get your brakes bled and Di2 attended to if you need it. Be sure to bring a set of extra brake pads with you.

Wheels - +1 on centerlock. White Industries CLD laced to Pacenti SL25 (or similar wide) alloy rims with a double or triple butted jbend spoke is a great place to start. Not sure if carbon rims are the best for travel/occasional CX use, especially at shallow profiles.

Bars - Are your bars carbon? Not a great choice for a travel bike or a CX bike. They are really comfortable and isolate road shock, but if your travel case gets thrown around or if you put the bike down in a race or while traveling, they can be prone to cracking.

Cross -

The Evergreen/Airheart is a great bike--a comfortable and stable all rounder, but the geo is not optimized for cross. Your bike has 7.6 cm of bb drop which will be great on the road, but that is a lot for a cx bike, even "new school" cx geo. My bike has 7.2 cm of bb drop and I have clipped my pedals more than once leaning and pedaling around corners in races. You'll get used to it, but it something to keep in mind, especially if you normally run longer 175+ cranks.

In a similar vein, the front center on the Evergreen is short-ish for a cross bike. Toe overlap is not a huge concern on the road, but for tight CX turns your tire will probably rub your toes on your tire. My front center is .2 cm longer than yours, I run 172.5 cranks and don't have really big feet (size 44), and my toes rub my tires a few times a race when I run 33/35c tires. When I run 40c tires, there is a lot of overlap. I've gotten used to it, but if I knew I was going to use my Evergreen for racing cross, I would have slackened the head angle to 71 or 71.5 (instead of the current 72).

Anyway, congrats on the bike. I'm sure you will have many happy miles, and laps!

[jbay]

On the couplers, a few notes. The tightening nut can get grit behind it over time, and should be flushed out maybe once or twice a year, esp. if you ride it in wet weather. You can tell by turning it around and listening to the sound. Gritty is obvious.The problem you describe won't be an issue on this frame because Seven orient the downtube coupler in what I consider to be the "correct" orientation. That is, the coupler nut is on the rear half of the frame while the threaded portion is on the front half. The result is that, when the coupler is tightened, the threads are effectively sealed under the nut and inaccessible to any water and dirt thrown up by the front wheel, while the open end of the coupler nut is facing towards the ground.

However, if the downtube coupler is in the reverse orientation, with the open end of the coupler facing towards the front wheel, water and dirt sprayed up can easily enter the coupler and make the threads gritty.

Co-Motion and Seven are two builders that orient the downtube coupler to avoid this problem. Other builders I have talked to like to use the reverse orientation because, I'm told, it looks "more aero."

You pays your money and makes your choices...

-- John

[kittytrail]

+1 on CenterLock disk interface and the high-end Shimano Ice Tech disks.

check the DT Swiss XR331 rims, light, cheap and sturdy enough for what you want to do. way cheaper to replace than an Enve rim when baggage handlers/TSArses get heavy handed.

hubs, there's the Shimano CX-70 too, CenterLock, 28 holes and one overhaul/year to ensure a smooth and long rolling life; the White Industries CLD are quite nice too if you want some reliable bling/colorful hubset. comes in 135 mm spacing too.

[bitt3n]

[lots of great advice]

thanks to everybody for the advice, and a special thanks to sblackmacken for the detailed geometry observations. I have a couple additional questions I am hoping people might be able to help me with.

I bought a used Chris King threadfit bottom bracket. The manual says that this BB comes with three 0.33mm spacers used for purposes of adjusting bearing preload and chainline if necessary. The used BB I bought doesn't come with these spacers (though it does come with the correct conversion kit for a Shimano crankset). I'm wondering how likely it is that I'll need these spaces. (I'm still waiting on some other parts before I can build the bike so I could order them in advance if it's likely I'll need them.)

Also, the CK manual says


Chris King External BB Cup Tool, Park™ BBT-9 and Shimano™ TL-FC32/TL-FC33. The Chris King External BB
Cup Tool features an optimized spline interface that minimizes the chance of marring BB cup anodization and
is compatible with 3/8” socket wrenches and torque wrenches.


is this $40 part something worth buying for an exact fit to this BB or should I just stick with the cheapo Shimano tool?

The manual says to tighten the BB to 40 Nm. I assume there's nothing wrong with picking up a cheap $20 torque wrench for this? I noticed Ritchey makes a $200 bike-specific torque wrench and I'm kind of curious why that one's so expensive and if there's a better value option. (They also make a cheap one that's 5 Nm only but that seems kind of useless.)

In terms of adjusting the bearing preload is this little plastic shimano tool sufficient or should I get the Park version?

http://i.imgur.com/zmTIbEH.jpg

How important is it to torque the bolts on the crank arms to exactly 12Nm to 14Nm? Is hand tight ok?

Any suggestions of what a novice can do to avoid screwing up the BB/crankset installation would be appreciated. (I did get the manual-recommended copper-based anti-seize to use instead of regular grease.)

It looks like I'll be going with Belgium Plus rims (with centerlock hubs as suggested) and I'm wondering what tubeless tires would make sense for cyclocross. I'll just be racing casually so I figure I only want one set for now that's okay in a variety of conditions. I was thinking either Clement MXP or Cross Boss but any suggestions would be great, as I'm just going off of what I see recommended online and a lot of the info is kind of old.

Also I don't know if I'll be doing UCI events but I'm kind of confused about the 33mm tire limit, since apparently a 33mm tire can measure larger than that on a wide rim, so I don't know how wide is actually too wide.

I'd also be interested in ideas for a 35mm tubeless road tire suitable for this bike for touring.

Thanks again everybody!

[tbronder]

I'd also be interested in ideas for a 35mm tubeless road tire suitable for this bike for touring.

Love 35mm Schwalbe G-Ones on my S&S Mosaic. They measure pretty exact on Velocity Ailerons and seal easily with a floor pump if you get the beads nice and soapy.

One pitfall on traveling tubeless: I can't pack them in my Pika Packworks soft travel case without breaking the bead, as the air pressure has to be pretty low to get the outer diameter small enough to squeeze in. In two trips (I'm new to tubeless) only one wheel (i.e. 25%) has made it through staying sealed. This means having to reseat at my destination and draining / refilling sealant or chancing a spill. Or worse: at Grinduro, I couldn't get them seated using a gas station air pump, installed tubes and ended up with 3 pinch flats on the day.

YMMV based on the case, but the biggest tire I could comfortably pack tubeless is probably around 28mm. I'm curious how wide of a 650b wheel+tire I could squeeze in there; that might be the solution to my problem.

Other notes from 1.5 years of traveling:

I run mechanical shifting / hyrdro brakes and it is pretty easy to deal with the rear caliper: snip 4 cable ties and undo two bolts (post mount).
Centerlock hubs definitely the way to go.
In ~10 trips the TSA's only opened my case once. Perhaps softsided ones are less suspicious? I use straps to secure the frame halves and bars against each other so that even if they dig around nothing gets too messed up.
Buy the S&S frame padding rolls (https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=49115). Fairly cheap and easy to get perfect padding.
Use an old innertube sliced in half as "bar tape" over your bar tape to reduce travel wear. With high spoke count wheels it can be a bit of a challenge "threading" the bars into place and for me they're always slightly rubbing against something.