Philosophical Question: Comparing performance across different equipment

[MattTuck]

I've spent most of the last 1.5 months training for a personal time trial. Basically, just to see how fast I can ride a 21 mile course that I made up.

I did the route before training, so I have a benchmark to compare my attempt. I did it using my regular crappy tires, Conti 4 seasons on the front, and Conti gatorskin on the rear.

I had been planning to put on a set of race tires (conti GP4000 II) for my attempt, to truly shoot for a personal best time. However, as the attempt looms, I have been thinking it might make more sense to just do it on my regular tires. The main reason is that I'll be able to accurately judge my progress over the last block of training. If I were to do it with the race tires (which would definitely be faster), I'd always wonder how much of the improvement was due to the training versus how much of it was due to just the change in tires.

What do you folks think?

[weisan]

yup...use the "race day" equipment down to the last detail.

[Black Dog]

Matt, if your goal is to measure yourself then run the same set up that you are training on. If your goal is to post as fast a time as possible then put on the faster tires etc... Personally I would run what you have been training on and then your effort is the only metric that you have to worry about. Less confounding factors.

[Peter P.]

For a more accurate measurement of fitness vs. equipment, just use the stuff on your original attempt.

But honestly, I still don't think you're going to get a "reliable" answer when you make your second attempt.

2 points don't plot a trend so I don't think you have enough historical data.

I expect you'll beat it, and beat it by at least 30 seconds because your starting point had no TT specific training behind it; there's plenty of room for improvement.

The only factors that will run against you will be colder temps (denser air) and perhaps you'll be wearing long sleeves, tights, etc., which will mean greater wind drag. But my money's on you.

I base my conclusions on having run my own time trials during a season, at a similar distance and at under half-distance.

[shovelhd]

Matt, if your goal is to measure yourself then run the same set up that you are training on. If your goal is to post as fast a time as possible then put on the faster tires etc... Personally I would run what you have been training on and then your effort is the only metric that you have to worry about. Less confounding factors.

What he said. If you're going for the land speed record, use latex tubes.

[ripvanrando]

Just pick a moderately warm, humid day because the thinner air will make you faster.

[rockdude]

Just pick a moderately warm, humid day because the thinner air will make you faster.

1+. Air density (pressure, heat humidity) and winds make it almost impossible to compare PR especially on longer efforts. There is a reason the hour record is done in a velodrome.

[MattTuck]

1+. Air density (pressure, heat humidity) and winds make it almost impossible to compare PR especially on longer efforts. There is a reason the hour record is done in a velodrome.

Yes, not a lot I can do about heat and pressure, other than try to pick a day that is warmer within my peak window. The route is up the river in one direction, then returning in the other direction, so wind effect is atleast minimized.

[alexstar]

Do both. Standard equipment on Saturday, race day equipment on Sunday. Should put your mind at ease.

[steamer]

Power meters are good for measuring both effects. (i.e. effects of training, and the effects of equipment changes). And they can do it in a way that is weather-neutral.

[shovelhd]

Do both. Standard equipment on Saturday, race day equipment on Sunday. Should put your mind at ease.

That is a tall order if you're not highly trained. Day two will suffer.

[gasman]

That is a tall order if you're not highly trained. Day two will suffer.
I agree.

When I have made a similar effort I tried to keep everything the same. The bike was exactly the same but it was warmer during my second TT after training so I had a bit less clothing on. Still , it was an uphill TT so I'm not sure how much difference clothing made. While it still is just two data points I think it will give you a good idea of how much training helped you. You'll do well.

[FlashUNC]

You trying to break your own records? Then use the best stuff. Man and machine right?

If you want to measure just how trained you are, go strap the thing on a trainer and measure some watts.

[jlwdm]

I have never considered the GP 4000 II a race tire.

Jeff

[MattTuck]

I have never considered the GP 4000 II a race tire.

Jeff

It's all relative, I suppose. Compared to my 'normal' tires, they mind as well be what the pros use in the prologue. :)

[Black Dog]

I have never considered the GP 4000 II a race tire.

Jeff

Huh? It is a pure race tire, with one of the lowest rolling resistance ratings of any clincher and tranction that is way better than average.

[berserk87]

Matt - I have the same issue with my TT bike. I ride an old, aluminum, Fuji Aloha with a mix of Dura Ace and Ultegra 9 speed.

I want to get something different - just hankering for an "upgrade" I suppose. I've had this rig since 2003. It's funny being lined up at the start and having less in my entire setup, wheels included, that most folks have in their front wheel, alone.

However, in terms of measuring my improvement, riding the same bike and largely the same setup has been beneficial. Weather conditions will fluctuate from event to event, causing some time variance here and there, but enough results over the years show a trend of improvement on my part.

On the other hand, I feel that I would be more competitive if I had some better equipment (i.e. - faster).

So I feel that measuring improvement and obtaining the best result possible can be mutually exclusive, particularly if you end up "buying" speed.

[nooneline]

I've spent most of the last 1.5 months training for a personal time trial. Basically, just to see how fast I can ride a 21 mile course that I made up.

I did the route before training, so I have a benchmark to compare my attempt. I did it using my regular crappy tires, Conti 4 seasons on the front, and Conti gatorskin on the rear.

I had been planning to put on a set of race tires (conti GP4000 II) for my attempt, to truly shoot for a personal best time. However, as the attempt looms, I have been thinking it might make more sense to just do it on my regular tires. The main reason is that I'll be able to accurately judge my progress over the last block of training. If I were to do it with the race tires (which would definitely be faster), I'd always wonder how much of the improvement was due to the training versus how much of it was due to just the change in tires.

What do you folks think?

It depends on your goals.
If your goal is to ride it as fast as you can ride it, then, by all means use the faster tires. And anything else that's faster, too.

But if your goal is to use the time trial to measure your improvement, then you should control for equipment. But you should also control for a lot of other factors - temperature and air pressure will play a non-trivial role. When it comes down to it, time isn't a great measure of input (your fitness or growth). It's an output that's dependent on a lot of factors.

[bitt3n]

Given you're only competing against yourself, it seems like the result will be meaningless unless it can be directly compared to the prior attempt, which suggests it makes sense to attempt to normalize the conditions. You're probably better off testing repeatedly (like once per week/month) to eliminate noise in the data.

[tv_vt]

Matt,

Up Rt 10 and back?

Couple of thoughts.
1) you may not break your first time, due to colder weather. That will really slow you down significantly.

2) 21 miles is too long. If you want a TT course to measure yourself against on a regular basis, I'd go for about 10 miles. A 21 mile course is going to be seriously mentally taxing; you're talking about 50-55 minutes of suffering and mental drift will be as important as physical ability.

3) for just a before and after check on training effectiveness, I'd use exactly the same equipment. But a course like this is also a great thing to use to try out new gear, like different tires, shorter/longer cranks, skinsuits, aerobars, different wheels, etc.

I've got three TT courses in the UV - Chieftain Hill for all out hill sprinting (a minute or so), Route 5 (1.8miles) for rolling (takes 4-4.5 minutes), and Union Village Rd for longer route with 3 climbs (takes about 15 minutes). Anything longer than that I'd only do in a real competition (like USAC 40km TTs).

Good luck with your ride.