Cycling MythBusters: Are all butyl inner tubes equal?

[MattTuck]

I was going to post this in Dan's thread, but I didn't want to cause the thread drift.

At various times, I've heard conflicting information about how fungible inner tubes really are. And I've heard this from people I respect and trust.

I've heard some say that pretty much all Asian sourced tubes come out of one factory, and the only difference is the box they are put in. I've heard that they all come out of the same factory, but there are quality differences based materials and specs.

Jan Heine says Schwalbe tubes are superior, but he sells them, so he's not exactly a dis-interested party.

Does anyone have a definitive answer on this question?

[Seramount]

doubt that there is only a single asian tube factory.

looking at this youtube vid, it looks like a pretty low-tech process...doesn't appear to be something that would be all that hard to replicate in multiple locations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkIXa-Iharc

[cmbicycles]

I can feel a difference in the thickness of different brand tubes, and see a difference in construction, but as for quality... hard to say without riding it til it blows out. I would doubt the single factory source as well. Kenda & CST (Cheng Shin Tire) are probably two of the bigger names that come to mind, and they doubtless make tubes for others (as many are stamped by bike brands with CST or Kenda on the tube as well).

I've had several "name brand" tubes recently where the valve separated from the tube and they were from various manufacturers (Kenda, Specialized, CST) with different thickness tubes and different stems. I had good luck with Continental tubes in the past, but that was when I could still buy them wholesale. I haven't found the magic tube to buy in bulk at my arbitrary price point yet, though I did snag some tubes from pricepoint before they closed, I just haven't had to use them yet... knock on wood.

[jemoryl]

I can feel a difference in the thickness of different brand tubes, and see a difference in construction, but as for quality... hard to say without riding it til it blows out. I would doubt the single factory source as well. Kenda & CST (Cheng Shin Tire) are probably two of the bigger names that come to mind, and they doubtless make tubes for others (as many are stamped by bike brands with CST or Kenda on the tube as well).

I've had several "name brand" tubes recently where the valve separated from the tube and they were from various manufacturers (Kenda, Specialized, CST) with different thickness tubes and different stems. I had good luck with Continental tubes in the past, but that was when I could still buy them wholesale. I haven't found the magic tube to buy in bulk at my arbitrary price point yet, though I did snag some tubes from pricepoint before they closed, I just haven't had to use them yet... knock on wood.

Another big Asian producer is IRC, and I suspect there are others. My favorite tubes are the Michelin Airstop A1: the last batch I bought said "Made in Serbia". They seem thinner than the run of the mill cheapies, but I get them mostly for the non-threaded stem.

[palincss]

There certainly are differences in tubes. Some are of obviously shoddy quality compared to others; also, some tubes such as the ultralight 559x1.5-1.75 is available only from Maxxis. In my personal experience, Schwalbe tubes are generally a good bit superior to the run of the mill LBS tube.

[Joxster]

It comes down to the percentage of rubber used in the tube that determines how good they are. The likes of schwable and conti do use a higher percentage of rubber against the own brand Merida tubes and the cheaper tubes. I would always buy a name brand tube over a cheaper tube, you only need one to fail when you're 40 miles from home to know that I'm right ;)

[Clancy]

I've used Continental tubes for ever it seems but working in a shop that sells mainly Kenda and other Asian made tubes I've seen a few fail at the valve or along a seam. The quality of the Continental tubes appears higher, the rubber and the valve and lock ring.

But, this is only based on observations, no data to back it up.

Would like to see a MythBusters Done on inner tubes. A data driven comparison

[rustychisel]

It comes down to the percentage of rubber used in the tube that determines how good they are. The likes of schwable and conti do use a higher percentage of rubber against the own brand Merida tubes and the cheaper tubes. I would always buy a name brand tube over a cheaper tube, you only need one to fail when you're 40 miles from home to know that I'm right ;)

+1

As an aside, I'm a fixer and re-user, and nothing s**ts me more than seeing cyclists discard punctured tubes at the roadside. If I see them I pick them up and stuff them in my jersey pocket. By a factor of 3:1 they are the shoddy 'buy a pack of 10' tubes which have failed.

[Ken Robb]

+1

As an aside, I'm a fixer and re-user, and nothing s**ts me more than seeing cyclists discard punctured tubes at the roadside. If I see them I pick them up and stuff them in my jersey pocket. By a factor of 3:1 they are the shoddy 'buy a pack of 10' tubes which have failed.

Does "failed" mean something other than a puncture or pinch flat? I once had a stem develop a a tear/leak where it joined the tube but that is the only failure like that I remember. Maybe I have been very lucky?

[cachagua]

Nothing s**ts me more than seeing cyclists discard punctured tubes at the roadside...


Ha! Used to work with a guy who did that with his sew-ups.

[Tandem Rider]

Most of the valve to tube joint failures I have experienced can be traced directly to threaded stems. The Silca head hangs on tight enough that it takes a pretty good yank to get it off, eventually tearing the stem away from the tube.

For me, smooth stems are easy on and off and last until a normal puncture.

[rustychisel]

Does "failed" mean something other than a puncture or pinch flat? I once had a stem develop a a tear/leak where it joined the tube but that is the only failure like that I remember. Maybe I have been very lucky?

I have occasionally seen those cheap POS tear along the seam,or the valve pulls out, but agree the pinch flat 'snakebite' is more common.

[cmbicycles]

Most of the valve to tube joint failures I have experienced can be traced directly to threaded stems. The Silca head hangs on tight enough that it takes a pretty good yank to get it off, eventually tearing the stem away from the tube.

For me, smooth stems are easy on and off and last until a normal puncture.

Essentially all stems are threaded for the valve cap. I understand what you are saying regarding the rest if the stem, but my experience with valves pulling out on tubes this summer were all tubes with otherwise smooth stems. As always, ymmv.

[Mike Bryant]

Best butyl tubes I've come across are Vredestein. They are seamless and with talc applied.

[ripvanrando]

Two out four Schwalbe SV18A leaked at the seams. Very slow leaks requiring adding air every 4-6 hours. These are the extra light version 700c for wider tires

I went back to latex after that fiasco.

[managerx]

My very casual observation has been - the lighter the tube (latex not included) the more likely the tube is to puncture or have issues. The super light tubes 60-70g are great but I have found they are a bit more delicate. The normal cheap tubes - I have found no difference between brand name and other ones.

Perhaps the biggest differentiator is the stem and valve used - sometimes the cheaper ones are a bit more flimsy and they fail before the rubber does.

[El Chaba]

The real story here is how generally poor the quality of tubes has become. It's quite difficult to get a decent quality tube. I recently sorted through a box of stuff to throw out after our move a while back and found 3 old Michelin Airstop tubes from about 15-20 years ago still in their boxes.....made in France....There are no tubes on the market today that are anywhere near the same in quality....

[palincss]

Does "failed" mean something other than a puncture or pinch flat? I once had a stem develop a a tear/leak where it joined the tube but that is the only failure like that I remember. Maybe I have been very lucky?

If you've only ever had one failure at the valve stem/tube joint you are leading a charmed life. In my experience, that is virtually the only reason Presta valve tubes have to be discarded. I've had to discard three in the past two months alone because the valves separated at the base. In two cases, I thought the hissing sound while inflating the tire indicated a problem with the pump head, but examining the inflated tube under water clearly showed otherwise.

[oldpotatoe]

Most of the valve to tube joint failures I have experienced can be traced directly to threaded stems. The Silca head hangs on tight enough that it takes a pretty good yank to get it off, eventually tearing the stem away from the tube.

For me, smooth stems are easy on and off and last until a normal puncture.

Or a head that releases the pressure before removing, Hirame, Tanaka, Silca new ones...

[DHallerman]

The real story here is how generally poor the quality of tubes has become. It's quite difficult to get a decent quality tube. I recently sorted through a box of stuff to throw out after our move a while back and found 3 old Michelin Airstop tubes from about 15-20 years ago still in their boxes.....made in France....There are no tubes on the market today that are anywhere near the same in quality....

Did you use the old Michelin tubes?

[El Chaba]

Did you use the old Michelin tubes?

Oh, heck yeah....I don't use my clincher wheels much except for the winter, but they pumped up fine and have been fine for several uses. My guess is that they have a pretty long shelf life IF they are kept out of sunlight (in the box) and out of extremes of temperature, etc....

[MattTuck]

The real story here is how generally poor the quality of tubes has become. It's quite difficult to get a decent quality tube. I recently sorted through a box of stuff to throw out after our move a while back and found 3 old Michelin Airstop tubes from about 15-20 years ago still in their boxes.....made in France....There are no tubes on the market today that are anywhere near the same in quality....

That's a bummer. Wonder if it was purely price pressure that drove the quality down, or if some other factor is at play (like the raw availability of materials, or some special manufacturing technique). Usually competition leads to better things for the consumer, so this is sort of a curious situation where quality has decreased.

We're not talking rocket science, so hard to imagine that differences in manufacturing costs/materials would lead to large changes in price. $0.50 is probably the difference between the best possible item and the average.

[saab2000]

I prefer Michelin tubes because the valve stems are not threaded. The threads rip up pump chuck rubber pieces. Beyond that I don't have strong opinions.

When I buy tubes I buy Michelin and buy quite a number of them. I also patch tubes, so they last for years.

[benb]

I can't really say anything has jumped out at me except for buying some Nashbar ones that were absolutely horrible... so bad I tossed most of them without even using them. A lot of them were blowing the seams the first time they got inflated.

[jemoryl]

Or a head that releases the pressure before removing, Hirame, Tanaka, Silca new ones...

BTW, you don't need to venture into the high rent district to get a pump head that does this - my Topeak Joe Blow Sport releases the pressure when you flip the lever to remove.

[54ny77]

i can't tell a damned thing in performance or longevity between the pricey tubes i have or the inexpensive ebay bulk purchase kenda specials that i scored a deal on about 112 years ago, and are still going strong...

for that matter, i can't even tell the difference between a latex tube vs. lightweight butyl mounted inside a good clincher tire (corsa cx or gp 4000s, for example).

so don't take my word for it. :p

[pasadena]

I can't tell the difference between artisinal, grass fed, organic, budda blessed feather weight, diet restricted latex tubes and cheapo bulk bought tubes.

I've never had any problems with tubes. I just dont want to get a flat so I get non-lightweight butyl tubes.

Just dont have the time to flat out of a race or group ride nowadays, so that's more important.

What I did notice was the new low rolling resistance tires- I didn't think they would, but I noticed they felt faster.

[Ken Robb]

I know not everyone agrees with me but I always screw the nut snug on the stem so they are much less likely to twist/tug when I have a pump head on them. Maybe this accounts for my good luck with tubes?

[pdmtong]

I prefer Michelin tubes because the valve stems are not threaded. The threads rip up pump chuck rubber pieces. Beyond that I don't have strong opinions.

When I buy tubes I buy Michelin and buy quite a number of them. I also patch tubes, so they last for years.

michelin for me too.

it i somewhat astounding that our bling-tastic machines all grovel at the failure of perhaps the lowest common-denominator part.

I tried those cheaper bulk tube purchases off chain love once. the problem is the tubes surface and seam just didnt take a rema patch like other tubes. so those were cheap but one-and-done.

fortunately flats are not frequent, so having 3-4 tubes sitting around is all that I need. problem is having road, cx/gravel, commuter, shallow and deep section, mtb 26 and mtb 29 tubes around....

[oliver1850]

I've seen Kendas repackaged as Bontrager and others. I've had lots of Kenda stems come loose from the tube - seemingly more of a problem with them than other brands, whether threaded or not. Also took a Kenda out of the box and found a 2" split along the seam. I like Kenda tires (ordered 4 today) but avoid their tubes. Cheng Shin tubes probably end up in lots of rebranded packaging. I really like Michelins but not sure I've used tubes from all the locals they now source from. The random one I pulled from the box tonight was made in Taiwan. Before my Silca pump crapped out I used to really like the smooth stem, but my current pumps take a lot more force to get the head far enough onto the stem to inflate, so having a nut on the stem is a plus, especially if the stem length is marginal for the rim.

[MattTuck]

Cheng Shin tubes probably end up in lots of rebranded packaging. I really like Michelins but not sure I've used tubes from all the locals they now source from. The random one I pulled from the box tonight was made in Taiwan.

I hadn't even considered this issue. That even if you find a tube you like, that buying the same brand next time may yield a tube from an entirely different factory, possibly of a different quality.

[tuscanyswe]

Scary thoughts, a tube made in a different factory! How will we move on from here? Is this why we prefer tubulars surely its the same tube they put in there every time, right right RIGHT OMFG!!!

[ripvanrando]

No.

Rubber quality, wall thickness, and processing capability are proportional to cost.

Conti supersonics are probably the fastest butyl tubes....almost as good as latex. Conti race tubes are also good but not fond of the stems. I like Michelin tubes and have a stock of old ones that clearly have elasticity in them unlike cheap plastic tubes.

Tube and tire is a system. The elasticity of a good pair reduces rolling resistance and adds a lot of comfort, especially if pressure is properly set.

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/schwalbe-one-tubeless-clincher

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/specials/tubeless-latex-butyl-tubes

[rustychisel]

No.

Rubber quality, wall thickness, and processing capability are proportional to cost.

Conti supersonics are probably the fastest butyl tubes....almost as good as latex. Conti race tubes are also good but not fond of the stems. I like Michelin tubes and have a stock of old ones that clearly have elasticity in them unlike cheap plastic tubes.

Tube and tire is a system. The elasticity of a good pair reduces rolling resistance and adds a lot of comfort, especially if pressure is properly set.



Damn Right!

When you think about it there is nothing as astounding as a tyre and tube combination, inflated to around 100psi, undergoing literally hundreds of thousands of distortions, compressions, major shocks etc, and whose function is absolutely mission critical.

[ripvanrando]

I hadn't even considered this issue. That even if you find a tube you like, that buying the same brand next time may yield a tube from an entirely different factory, possibly of a different quality.

The young MBAs of the world never see that.

Supply chains are often only as good as the cheapest link and control of RM is the murkiest link in the chain.

Cheap raw materials, low labor costs, and relentless price concessions usually have ill product effects eventually. The Walmartization of America.

[MattTuck]

The young MBAs of the world never see that.

Supply chains are often only as good as the cheapest link and control of RM is the murkiest link in the chain.

Cheap raw materials, low labor costs, and relentless price concessions usually have ill product effects eventually. The Walmartization of America.

I think the expectation is that a brand stands for something. Whether that be engineering excellence, quality control, level of raw materials, etc. If you're going to sell lower spec'd stuff, create a different product line, or subsidiary brand. If they are sourcing differing quality tubes and putting them in the identical box (perhaps with the only difference being "Made in ____________", that seems disingenuous to me.

I should add that I have no evidence of this, but it was alluded to earlier in the thread, and if it is happening, that deserves some digging.

[pdmtong]

one thing I always do is test the tube right out of the box before i put it into my saddle pack. nothing like the experience of having a brand new dead tube in the middle of nowhere ... (ask me how I know)

[drewskey]

one thing I always do is test the tube right out of the box before i put it into my saddle pack. nothing like the experience of having a brand new dead tube in the middle of nowhere ... (ask me how I know)

I think we've all be there. Flat tire -> Insert new tube -> use CO2 -> hear sound of disappointment as your tube remains flat because it was DOA.