Trying out flat pedals and shoes?

[d_douglas]

I am a long time clipless pedal user. Shortly after I started riding, I bought my first set of SPDs because it was what the cool kids had and I have never changed. I use Shimano road and mountain pedals after years of using Times (which I actually prefer, but that is another story)

I have recently gotten back into MTBing and am curious about trying flat pedals and shoes. I rode with a friend just getting into offroading this past weekend and he used jogging shoes and cheap pedals on his new FS bike and he didn't seem to have a problem getting around on the trails. I personally find it hard to fathom how to get OVER things without pulling up using clipless setups, but 50%+ of offroaders where I live use flats, so they are definitely favoured.

The last few times I have been out, I have thought I should grab my wife's commuter pedals (Crank Brothers DH) and try it out, and I would just use jogging shoes. Now, however, I realize that the magical combination of spiky flats and sticky rubber is what makes things work.

Who here uses flats and 5-10s (or similar) to ride technical trails? Is it fun or annoying? With the right sticky combination, do you have control like you do with SPDs? Is it worth the investment of $200 in shoes/pedals?

[Dead Man]

Why, tho?

I personally find nothing lacking with clipless.. and seems like you'd just shred your shins on the studded pedals all the time. Ack.. no thanks

[d_douglas]

Yes, true, but I am curious as to the attraction. While people who've used clipless pedals for a long time feel that disengaging from the pedals is an 'automatic' movement, it isn't. If we ride ourselves of that, it might be more fun, allowing the rider to move around on the pedals and adapt more to the terrain.

This is coming from a long time 'user', so I am only playing devil's advocate - why do so many people use flat pedals? I learned to MTB on Vancouver's North Shore and after enough catastrophic injuries, everyone there was using flats and most continue to do so, though now there has been a movement back to clipless in some cases. It might be that suspension tech is now so good that people feel safer on their bikes and they are willing to be clipped in again?

[malcolm]

I still sometimes use both, but mostly flats because they allow me to clear technical sections that I just couldn't clipped. I was a long time roadie and started using clipless on the first generation white looks, so I've been using them awhile and on low speed tech sections no matter how familiar you are getting in and out you likely can't get a foot down as quickly as you can on flats.
Now there are guys that can clear anything clipped in but they tend to have balance and skills way beyond mine.
Also of note I don't lose any time on my most commonly ridden 18 mi loop. I record the same time flats or clipped. Longish rides on groomed single track I'll use clips otherwise flats.

[Villgaxx]

if you're flat pedal-curious, get cheap bmx pedals to start. expensive flat pedals are the biggest joke in the world.

for most people.

start out with cheap, plastic pedals and some sneakers first. if you dig it, and you are sure you are committed, then it might be worth if to invest in decent (more expensive) flat pedals and dedicated shoes for them.

I never had any problem with atacs and always had a better experience with clipless pedals, but that's not to say that plenty of folks don't ride wicked good with flat pedals.

[jtbadge]

For those of us like myself with awful technical skills, the security of easily being able to put a foot down can not be replaced. I use big pedals with long pins like the RaceFace Chester and light hiking boots/shoes and get plenty of traction on the pedal.

[vqdriver]

flats are awesome. clipless are awesome.
it just depends on your riding style and terrain, and sometimes one dictates the other. i ride spd exclusively at home where i'm basically pedaling constantly. on lift days, those same spds have caused innumerable stalls and walks of shame. pinned flats work great. slipping is nigh impossible because they claw into the sole of your shoe, but when it does happen or if it whips around, then yes, your shins will pay a hefty price.

[malcolm]

Also for what is worth in my opinion good flats deserve good shoes. I really like my 5.10s, way better than any tennis shoe I tried.

[Davist]

20+ years of bmx prior to clipless invading there. Vans shoes and shimano DX (original style no longer available) were my favorites, then Odyssey twisteds, now available in nylon only (less shin damage) for ~<$20

I'd recommend Odyssey, here's a pic, not as low profile as some but good:

http://bmxunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Odyssey_Pedal_TwistedFlat_PC1024x768.jpg

I wouldn't spend big $$ on flats either, these would be good enough (I was nationally ranked on the metal version with vans shoes)

[d_douglas]

Thanks for all the advice. So, jogging shoes wont cut it? I have Vans as well, but those would destroy my feet - I need some support. I also have Salomon hikers (terrible shoes that are falling apart anyways) I could try them, but they don't have a sole that is conducive to digging into pedal pins.

[TheEnglish]

I want to preference this by saying I am a certified mountain bike instructor through IMBA's ICP.

Proper flat pedals used with a flat bottom shoe (skate or bike shoe) is the best way to learn mountain biking. The reason for this is that you don't end up "cheating" your foot work to get the bike to move under you. The best example would be for a two-wheel lift (two wheels off the ground at the same time, like jumping your bike from a flat trail). If you have clipless pedals you end up jumping and yanking your feet up in the air to pull the bike up. The problem with that is that you land unbalanced and not ready for the next features. The proper technique would be to load the bike with your legs (push into the ground), then explode upwards with your legs, and finally pull the bike up with a slight "claw" of your feet and a slight pull from your hands on the bars. If done properly, you will land balanced and ready for the next feature. That is just one example of many.

I also find that I am a more efficient pedaler when clipped in later. Either way, do whatever gets you on the trails more.

[bicycletricycle]

shimano saint platform pedals are really nice.

[ColonelJLloyd]

As I'm now a father of two I'm increasingly at ease with dad choices and general Fredness. But, the aesthetic difference between those thick, clunky, plastic BMX pedals and the Xpedo Sprys I went with was worth the premium to me not to mention the weight and grip.

http://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/stories/2014/09/13/max_3_up_177997.jpg?1410623777

[d_douglas]

Thanks! Yes, I am shocked when I see trials riders leaping 3ft into the air, with nothing but skate shoes on. Magic! I am a cheater all the way - when riding something steep, I pull up on my pedals to re-centre myself rather than shift the entire bike with my body, which seems th way good flats riders do it.

I want to preference this by saying I am a certified mountain bike instructor through IMBA's ICP.

Proper flat pedals used with a flat bottom shoe (skate or bike shoe) is the best way to learn mountain biking. The reason for this is that you don't end up "cheating" your foot work to get the bike to move under you. The best example would be for a two-wheel lift (two wheels off the ground at the same time, like jumping your bike from a flat trail). If you have clipless pedals you end up jumping and yanking your feet up in the air to pull the bike up. The problem with that is that you land unbalanced and not ready for the next features. The proper technique would be to load the bike with your legs (push into the ground), then explode upwards with your legs, and finally pull the bike up with a slight "claw" of your feet and a slight pull from your hands on the bars. If done properly, you will land balanced and ready for the next feature. That is just one example of many.

I also find that I am a more efficient pedaler when clipped in later. Either way, do whatever gets you on the trails more.

[sokyroadie]

Lots of info on this recent thread:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=194411

I had the 5-10's and went with the Xpedo's vs the Wellgo's this time, but the Wellgo's have been great as well.

Jeff

[dustyrider]

Adidas recently bought 5.10 and there has been some grumbling about QC.

I've had a set of impacts last 7+ years and am on my second set 3+ years old now. I think they're the best flat shoe for serious riding. I used to buy vans, but they only lasted a season. Soles worn right through and stitching blown out.

Metal pins will work with lots of different shoes. I know a guy who rides in Merrills and loves them with his flat pedals. They fit his feet both on and off the bike, so he won't consider flat shoes. I think you should grab a set of flat pedals maybe a wellgo offering and give them a try.

If you decide you like them, you can branch out into some slimmer, lighter and more colorful pedals. I feel like the thinner the pedal is the less likely it is to roll out from under my foot. I have always dropped a plug for deity pedals and always will. If you do the math, the pedal per ride cost is actually quite low!

There is also the longer pedal that a local guy can up with...link (http://pedalinginnovations.com/blog/) James is an interesting fellow much like our own tidesigns.

For me the benifit of flats is when you need to maneuver your bike in technical areas. Like a rock garden. Having a wider platform helps me create body English and I find it extremely helpful. If you like catching air and rough landings, nothing feels safer than flats...to me. I just can't get away from a bike when I'm clipped in as fast as I can on flats.

The downside is: if you're used to using clipless pedals to move the bike, it can feel like you lose the bike when you leave the ground, but you fall at the same rate as the bike so the pedals will be there. It also "feels" slightly less efficient when climbing in flats. Your concern of lifting the bike is a common one. I think you'll figure out preloading pretty quickly. Proper trials riders are quite proficient in it!

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'd only had my first mountain bike for a couple of weeks before I got clipless pedals; I was coming from a road background and that seemed natural. A few years ago, I started wondering about flat pedals, mainly because I knew I was using clipless to "cheat" on lifting the bike. I wanted to learn how to do it right.

So I've been using some Wellgo flats and 5.10 shoes (both found for <$50 on closeout) ever since. I still put the clipless pedals on for races, but 90% of my offroad riding is on flats. I like the freedom to hop on/off whenever and, between the pins and grippy flat-bottomed shoes, I don't feel any less connected to the bike.

I also find that I am a more efficient pedaler when clipped in later.

The first thing I learned from flats was how lazy I'd gotten pushing through the top of the pedal stroke with clipless pedals. I was surprised by how often I'd lose contact with the pedal at the top of the stroke. I adapted and have a better pedal stroke because of it.

[pinkshogun]

if using spikey pedals get some shin guards

[RobJ]

My last mountain bike was a full suspension Fischer in the late 90's and despite using clipless on the road I always had issues being clipped in especially in the technical sections. Same too the last few years in CX racing. I'm building a 29er now and have a set of XTR pedals waiting but also ordered the VP Harriers and a pair of 5.10's. Will test both out and unload the ones I don't like. Yes I could have found a cheaper way to test this out but that's too easy :D. I think being in platforms will give me more confidence and actually improve my riding.

BTW, since you are in Canada, MEC has decent prices on 5.10s but even better for us down here. Also check Bike Discount (Germany) for even better prices. Ordered from both of them.

[Dustin]

I switched to flat pedals on my mountain bike this year after 15 years on clips. I love it, and doubt I'll go back. It gives you a lot more confidence in the tech, and my skills have really improved as a result. Strava times are in the same neighborhood they always were, though I am no longer trying to be the XC hero. You learn pretty quickly when you go to flats that your pedal stroke was not as even as you thought, because clips were masking bad form. But flats do not lie, and your stroke improves. You may need to lower your saddle as you tend to adopt more of a mid-foot pedaling style. No more cramping issues in my left calf as a result.

I would not recommend doing it in tennis shoes and cheap plastic pedals. Many of those who think they hate flats hate them because this was their only experience. A decent pedal (doesn't have to be expensive) and a quality shoes like 5-10s that are optimized for flats makes all the difference in the world. The 5-10s are almost too grippy! Slipping pedals will not be your problem.

I'm digging it so much I've almost considered going this route in my gravel bike as well, and I NEVER would have seen myself riding flats a few years ago.

[weisan]

Did a recent 100-mile bikepacking trip with just these...ZERO issue, don't feel any disadvantage at all, average speed every bit as fast as clipless, smooth pedaling with the added benefit of easy walking.

http://cdn3.volusion.com/ykqlq.dkgme/v/vspfiles/photos/A-52-2.jpg?1326654623

http://www.50plus-fitness-walking.com/images/KEEN_MWATER_Newport_J2.jpg

http://www.injinji.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/2/0/201170asc.jpg

[wooly]

Hey D, ever since I got back into riding mtb two years ago I've been on platform pedals. Tried different shoe and pedal combos and my current go to combo is Canfield Bros Crampon pedals and Addidas Terrex Trail Cross shoes. Addidas bought Five Ten and the Trail Cross shoes have 5 10 stealth soles which are awesome. The other pedals that I use are Spank Oozy. Great too.

[pcxmbfj]

I tried the move to flats before a fractured pelvis this year relegated flats as the only pedal that would allow me to bike.
It's a hard transition from clip-ins but I'm convinced you become a better rider learning with flats.
Will probably go back to clips after full recovery but am now looking to upgrade my Lake, 5-10 low-end shoes and Crank Bros 5030.

[christian]

I use SPD pedals on my XC/short-travel trail bike. They feel the most efficient. On my Enduro bike and DH bike, I run flats and 5.10s and wouldn't really consider switching. I am not racing on those bikes so maximum efficiency isn't required, and the extra bravery that the ability to bail at the last-second provides is helpful. In full disclosure, there are a few obstacles where a half-rotation provided by SPD pedals would help too -- but pretty few, maybe a half-dozen per year.

[malcolm]

Hey D, ever since I got back into riding mtb two years ago I've been on platform pedals. Tried different shoe and pedal combos and my current go to combo is Canfield Bros Crampon pedals and Addidas Terrex Trail Cross shoes. Addidas bought Five Ten and the Trail Cross shoes have 5 10 stealth soles which are awesome. The other pedals that I use are Spank Oozy. Great too.

It's the sole that makes the 5.10 in my opinion and I think my favorites have the stealth sole.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Hey D, ever since I got back into riding mtb two years ago I've been on platform pedals. Tried different shoe and pedal combos and my current go to combo is Canfield Bros Crampon pedals and Addidas Terrex Trail Cross shoes. Addidas bought Five Ten and the Trail Cross shoes have 5 10 stealth soles which are awesome. The other pedals that I use are Spank Oozy. Great too.

How do those Adidas run? I normally require wide shoes.

[wooly]

How do those Adidas run? I normally require wide shoes.

I have a narrow foot but I'd say they run middle of the road on width. Very nice show. I have some Five Ten Freerides and they're fine but I'm not fond of the skater bro look. I use the free rides for my wet weather days.