OT: expat, London etc advice please

[sparky33]

Any London folks out there?

I'm considering moving to London to run a satellite office in about a year, staying for 3 years with my family (wife, daughters 5&7, dog). What do I need to know about living there as an expat?

The office is near Leadenhall Market (central London?), and I would hope to live somewhere within a reasonable commute that would deliver excellent quality of life for my family. A place to stretch my legs where things are green would be high on the list too. I might hire a consultant to assist with logistics and schooling, but perspective from like-minded members here is welcome. I've spent almost no meaningful time in London, so assume I know nothing.

For those who live or have lived elsewhere abroad with family, what advice do you have?

[Climb01742]

I lived in London for a year awhile ago. I was single so I'm afraid I can't offer any help with the family angle, but athletically, perhaps try to be close to one of London's parks. I lived near Hyde Park and it was a lifesaver for both my head and body. Richmond is another great, big park. Central Park helped me survive with my sanity in NYC. Hyde Park did that in London. The city has some amazing parks. Centering an apartment search near one might pay dividends.

As a side note, living overseas is, IMO, a hugely positive experience. Has its challenges, but the rewards far outweigh them. Living in London and Florence are among the best experiences of my life. Good luck!!

[verticaldoug]

It's pretty simple- sort the children and the Mrs out first. You have a job to go to, so the transition for you will probably be easiest.

There are a few options for schooling, but if you want your children to continue on the American track, American School London in St John's Woods is probably the ticket. You will look to live between St Regent's Park and Hampstead Heath which will keep you near greenery, the children near their friends and also help the wife to make new friends.

That's my two cents. Sort the school , everything else falls in place. It may be harder to find places for a 5 & 7 year old than you imagine. My co-worker's wife was a former a primary school teacher near Richmond and I can ask her for detailed info if you want a wider catchment area.

(rents are still stupid expensive in London, but with the pound at 1.22, it has become almost bearable. And remember those prices you see quoted are per WEEK! )

[Joxster]

I worked in London for 3yrs and it's EXPENSIVE. I didn't like it and I moved west to Marlbourgh where I could get to the London office on the train, the Bristol office by car. If you're renting be prepared to spend around £2000-3000 a month on rent, I was in Croydon and was spending £1600 a month on a 2 bed back in 2007.

[zzy]

Just like above says, it really depends on how much of a commute you can stomach. Many people live outside London and take the train in. Like NYC, London rents (and general cost of living) is stupidly high. Also make sure you're still being paid in US $ if possible as its at an all time high vs. the pound. My sister lives in Hackney and even there the rents are sky high. Then again, living outside the city may not give you the experience you want. There's also a leaning curve to riding in the UK from America. Not just the left-side thing, but roundabouts and general etiquette. The British take that stuff very seriously and out on tiny, narrow country roads you need to follow the rules.

Also, if I'm being frank, there is a bit of a negative attitude towards Americans in London. The rest of the country in generally great in my experience.

[uno-speedo]

N/a

[paredown]

Agree with what has been said--school, then everything else. Of our friends who went over at the same time (we did a 2+ year stint because of my wife's career), one family picked St Johns Woods for the American school; the other family (not as well off) chose the ACS School in Hillingdon and commuted in. We had no kids and settled in Maida Vale.

It is crazy expensive to live in London--make sure that your company grosses up your salary to cover the higher cost of living. If they don't already do so, working with a pro relocation group would be very helpful.

There are some real gotchas--like a very small tax deduction for moving expenses (it is a small country!) & a different tax year--eg if your moving expenses are paid from the US, it will likely end up as income when you file UK taxes because you will be over the allowable deduction. (Cost us about 3000 GBP in taxes we were not expecting). Your relocation package should include professional tax help--it gets complicated real fast...

That said, we ended up loving the experience, even though we spent money like water. One of our friends came over to refit some coffee chain for Starbucks--and thought the salary they offered meant they were in the clover. After a week he came home and told his wife that the plan was to leave London no worse off than when they arrived.

The joke among the expats we knew was if you lasted past the first year you more or less wanted to stay for ever. One of the three couples that we were part of did just that and are still living there.

Lots to see and do, easy access to the continent, great city for walking. Museums, good food, great art etc, etc.

We were there when 9-11 happened, and were very touched when strangers asked us if we had lost anyone in the disaster. Some of the service people can be snippy, but we found most Londoners great to deal with. Government offices/National Health--not so much. It sometimes seemed much harder to manage the basics, like finding decent stores, cleaners etc. Part of my wife's package included an add-on health care insurance that paid for visits to Harley Street physicians and avoid the National Health queue--that was nice, but we didn't use it much, being fairly healthy.

LH driving will happen if you drive regularly (we ended up picking up a CPO car for weekend trips); Geico can insure over there. Whether your state driver's license is acceptable over there is decided on a state by state basis--and if so, you have some period of time before you are expected to get a UK license. We never did, although we were supposed to in our second year.

Our rent in Maida Vale was over 500 GBP/week (rent is still billed by the week) for a modest 2 bedroom unfurnished back in 2001/2003. Be prepared to pare down (in fact that is where my nom de plume started)--we cleared out 70% of what we owned when we left Seattle, put my tools and few other valuables in storage and still had too much stuff when we moved in. If you could stand it, and it is for a short enough stay, you might consider taking suitcases and laptops and renting furnished--there are a lot of flats available that are furnished...

[sparky33]

It's pretty simple- sort the children and the Mrs out first. You have a job to go to, so the transition for you will probably be easiest.

There are a few options for schooling, but if you want your children to continue on the American track, American School London in St John's Woods is probably the ticket. You will look to live between St Regent's Park and Hampstead Heath which will keep you near greenery, the children near their friends and also help the wife to make new friends.

That's my two cents. Sort the school , everything else falls in place. It may be harder to find places for a 5 & 7 year old than you imagine. My co-worker's wife was a former a primary school teacher near Richmond and I can ask her for detailed info if you want a wider catchment area.

Yep. This is all on track. Really, my priority is making it work for my girls. If they are happy and healthy, then life is good and everything falls into place.


(rents are still stupid expensive in London, but with the pound at 1.22, it has become almost bearable. And remember those prices you see quoted are per WEEK! )
I just learned about PCW versus PM when looking at rents. My expectations of incredible cost of living are confirmed.

[Ken Robb]

Many years ago I visited an old rugby teammate who lived in Barnes with his wife and daughter. It was a very pleasant suburb. We took the tube from Piccadilly Circus to the end of the line which was a very short drive from their home on the high street. I wonder if it's still as nice and if it's relatively affordable?

[sparky33]

It is crazy expensive to live in London--make sure that your company grosses up your salary to cover the higher cost of living. If they don't already do so, working with a pro relocation group would be very helpful.

There are some real gotchas--like a very small tax deduction for moving expenses (it is a small country!) & a different tax year--eg if your moving expenses are paid from the US, it will likely end up as income when you file UK taxes because you will be over the allowable deduction. (Cost us about 3000 GBP in taxes we were not expecting). Your relocation package should include professional tax help--it gets complicated real fast...

Great point. Sorting out the finances and taxation is on the list of things to research. I'm well-organized with professional help here in the US, and I would aim to arrange things in the most favorable manner. Fortunately, I work for a great company - they don't have much structure in place for this, but they do take care of their own. This would be a part of the discussion.

[bontie]

If its greenery you want - what uno speedo said....

[Mikej]

I read an article about how the population of London is now 37% not born in London.

[jh_on_the_cape]

Check tax laws. In general if you spend 330 days outside of usa you get foreign tax credit. Watch that number.
Otherwise go for it. Fantastic growing experience for your kids and for you. Also no guns.

[vav]

Also no guns.

No kidding. The NYT has a very interesting series on the gun issue (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/22/us/shootings-gun-violence.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)

[sparky33]

And for the fun part...

What kind of bike (N=1) would you bring if you were living in Zone 2 or 3, maybe Hampstead area? What kind of riding is there nearby and further off (roads, urban, rural, trails, etc)?

[ultraman6970]

Get used to pay for the bread at the restaurants :P

[4Rings6Stars]

I'm a CPA and specialize in expatriate tax consulting... And I'm in Boston! Shoot me a PM if you want to chat.

Check tax laws. In general if you spend 330 days outside of usa you get foreign tax credit. Watch that number.
....

Not exactly correct, but general idea is.

You are eligible to claim a foreign tax credit on your US tax return for non-us taxes paid against any "foreign source" income. There are also income exclusions available if your tax home has shifted outside of the US (one of the tests to qualify for this is met when you are outside of the US for at least 330 days in a rolling 12-month period).


You definitely need to make sure the tax bits are sorted out before you agree to anything as it does get VERY complicated and can be extremely costly if you're on your own for taxes and you / your employer are not well versed in the US and UK tax laws. For example, if your assignment is structured as less than 2 years, you can significantly reduce your UK tax bill, but you need to do some careful planning before you actually move and start working in the UK.

The US tax laws make it more complex to work abroad than virtually all other countries because even though you will be living and working outside of the US, 100% of your income will still be subject to federal and likely MA taxes.

[paredown]

..
The US tax laws make it more complex to work abroad than virtually all other countries because even though you will be living and working outside of the US, 100% of your income will still be subject to federal and likely MA taxes.
The decision that made my head spin off was when the feds decided that we were officially non-resident for tax purposes, but the state of Arkansas said we were not--and still required to pay state taxes on my wife's income.:confused::confused::confused:

As far as riding, I found the secondary streets fine for riding a standard road bike. Like New York, the best days were early Saturday/early Sunday morning when the traffic was lighter.

[Jingle Jangle]

Don't go to Hamstead - North London is rubbish.

If your office is in Leadenhall, look at Greenwich:

12 Minutes by train to the City, 15-20 minute ride - you can also take the river boat.

Large Royal park, tons of history (you wouldn't know what time it was, or where you were if it wasn't for Greenwich).

Good local schools, great pubs etc.

Also, head in the opposite direction (on your bike) and before you know it you are in the Kentish Downs.

You know it makes sense.

[jemoryl]

I lived in the UK for about four years (not London, but up North) and it was a very rewarding experience. My time coincided with the fall of Thatcher, so there was some hope; not sure one can say they are in for good times following Brexit. A huge regret of mine was not buying a bike and riding while I was there (I was on a hiatus from serious riding at that point in my life).

No one has mentioned it yet, but plan on your dog being in quarantine for a long time (it was 6 months, IIRC the experience of a Canadian colleague). They are very keen on keeping rabies out of the UK.

[paredown]

...

No one has mentioned it yet, but plan on your dog being in quarantine for a long time (it was 6 months, IIRC the experience of a Canadian colleague). They are very keen on keeping rabies out of the UK.
I believe they have eased up on the quarantine requirement if you have your pets vaccinated in some defined period before departure... I know we got dinged big time for putting our three cats in quarantine, but I was under the impression that the law changed shortly after we left.

Yes--here's a good summary:
http://www.dogfriendly.com/server/travel/info/customs/england.shtml

Looks as if you need both a current vaccination and microchip implant--and that should let you escape that financial soaking.

[sparky33]

I believe they have eased up on the quarantine requirement if you have your pets vaccinated in some defined period before departure... I know we got dinged big time for putting our three cats in quarantine, but I was under the impression that the law changed shortly after we left.

Yes--here's a good summary:
http://www.dogfriendly.com/server/travel/info/customs/england.shtml

Looks as if you need both a current vaccination and microchip implant--and that should let you escape that financial soaking.

Thank you for posting this. It is incredibly helpful to read the actual requirements. They seem attainable.
The duration of preparatory requirements is long, but I've got time.

I do have concerns about the transit with my dog because he is old (but healthy) - this is a discussion I will have with his vet.

[sparky33]

Don't go to Hamstead - North London is rubbish.

If your office is in Leadenhall, look at Greenwich:

12 Minutes by train to the City, 15-20 minute ride - you can also take the river boat.

Large Royal park, tons of history (you wouldn't know what time it was, or where you were if it wasn't for Greenwich).

Good local schools, great pubs etc.

Also, head in the opposite direction (on your bike) and before you know it you are in the Kentish Downs.

You know it makes sense.

Nice to hear about alternatives Jangle. I agree that Greenwich is compelling.
That said, school selection will drive location for us, and more of the intl schools are elsewhere.

[bontie]

What uno-speedo said. I live around the corner from him (kingston).
About as good lifestyle you could hope for in London in my opinion. Barnes mentioned is pretty, but not cheap at all.

[OtayBW]

I'm a CPA and specialize in expatriate tax consulting... And I'm in Boston! Shoot me a PM if you want to chat.



Not exactly correct, but general idea is.

You are eligible to claim a foreign tax credit on your US tax return for non-us taxes paid against any "foreign source" income. There are also income exclusions available if your tax home has shifted outside of the US (one of the tests to qualify for this is met when you are outside of the US for at least 330 days in a rolling 12-month period).


You definitely need to make sure the tax bits are sorted out before you agree to anything as it does get VERY complicated and can be extremely costly if you're on your own for taxes and you / your employer are not well versed in the US and UK tax laws. For example, if your assignment is structured as less than 2 years, you can significantly reduce your UK tax bill, but you need to do some careful planning before you actually move and start working in the UK.

The US tax laws make it more complex to work abroad than virtually all other countries because even though you will be living and working outside of the US, 100% of your income will still be subject to federal and likely MA taxes.Wow! Where were you 6 years ago when I was thinking about moving to Switzerland from near Boston?!? The tax issue seemed particularly daunting at the time. And yes, I would have gotten dinged by MA taxes, and as I recall, the MA domicile laws were among the toughest in the nation. Most of the advice on all this that I got came from on-line, out-of-state sources, so I really could have used you at the time!