OT: Career Shift - Engineering

[matthewhelmuth]

Hi all,

I've been a forum watcher for a long while and have occasionally posted over in the gallery section when I feel my bike is looking particularly pretty. I'm in my mid twenties, into cycling, have a young family, and wonder how on earth you all pay for this very expensive hobby. That and other (much more important) reasons are driving me to consider getting out of my current line of work and into a more lucrative one.

I'm a graduate of a small Midwestern liberal arts institution, and I hold a degree in religious studies. I'm currently working at a small third party undergraduate program and am at a point of transition.

I've got significant aptitude in mathematics and a strong interest in mechanical and electrical processes. I have a number of friends who are at various stages in their engineering careers and have heard from them that it's possible to get into the field without holding a degree in engineering.

I'm curious to know whether any of you are electrical or mechanical engineers (or drafters)? If so, do you mind telling me a bit about your experience of that industry? What do you think of the prospects for someone coming into the field as a self-taught drafter (perhaps with a bit of mentoring input from friends and acquaintances)? I'm thinking of taking the next nine months, buying a computer and either Solidworks or Altium, and immersing myself in one of those systems. Am I off my rocker?

Matthew

[estilley]

I'm mid 20's and a liberal arts graduate and just started my ME post-bac program. Worked retail analytics for a few years and wanted a change. Didn't do it for the money, probably would have made more in the old job track. Ended up working in an auto-shop setting while figuring out the next steps and found ME. The days are long with work, school, and riding, but it's a good life!

Best of luck!


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[elcolombiano]

I am an EE, worked 33+ years in the defense industry and retired at 55. I saw very few people do well without at least a 4 year degree. Now days they expect a masters. By far the ones with technical degrees did even better. You need to enjoy math and physics or it will be very difficult to succeed.

[slidey]

Good on you for taking the initiative enough to consider venturing out into the unknown.

However, it is the unknown to you, and so I would like you, if you wish, to give me a better idea of what context you're using to declare the below statement about having an aptitude in mathematics. In short, engineering maths is per my experience only superficially to do with numbers, a lot more to do with symbols/theorems.

As for "getting into the field without a degree", my first reaction is utter skepticism. However, feel free to disambiguate what you mean by "getting into the field". Are you talking of electrical contractor, or control systems engineer? No judgment on what a person chooses to do for their living, as long as its keeping them independent+gainfully employed, but knowing the destination helps choose a reasonable path. In other words, maybe a 2-year vocational degree, or a community college degree might be a more reasonable (time-efficient, cost-to-degree, time-to-degree, competition) path to take. Accurate personal evaluation of options is the only way to make a reasonable choice, and the above are a few dimensions to gather more data on.

Don't have to reply here, but I urge you to think along the above dimensions.


I've got significant aptitude in mathematics and a strong interest in mechanical and electrical processes. I have a number of friends who are at various stages in their engineering careers and have heard from them that it's possible to get into the field without holding a degree in engineering.

[ripvanrando]

I'm EE. Some would question whether I have ever used my degree due to the variety of work I have done over the decades from Marketing, Field Service, Quality, Regulation, procurement, Manufacturing, and various levels of management. I am now a consultant. As you can see I never did much design work although I have been on development teams and have conducted qualification studies. In my field nobody gets hired entry level with a liberal arts degree although mid-career, the degree does not matter as much. For instance a Microbiologist could move out of the lab into other roles in some firms, but at the entry level?

I have literally poured thru hundreds if not thousands of tech files/dossiers in the medical device field and other than some basic statistics, not much math is involved in my world (EE and ME).

[AngryScientist]

first off, engineering is such a broad field that anything is possible. I have an engineering degree and my career path and the choices that the degree allowed me are as big as my imagination, and i mean that. to me, being an "engineer" means your mind works in a logical way and you have good problem solving skills and an adaptable mentality.

anyway - yes, it is very possible to break into many engineering disciplines without a degree. as an adult, i think it is the right move to get your foot in the door with a good company who will let you do some work and pay to earn a higher degree. all the "big" engineering firms will hire draftsman (or whatever they call them) to do drawings, which is not a degreed job. you will need some training in mechanical design and CAD. it's a good entry level position and can get you a feel for working with an engineering/design team, and potentially allow you to pursue a higher education while you work.

that's of course only one course of action.

where do you live, and what do you actually want to do? if you've got the right attitude and are flexible, anything is possible.

[eddief]

and I'd suggest you do a ton more of it by talking to actual people working at jobs in the field. It is called informational interviewing. It is different than asking about job openings. You make appointments, request 20 minutes of a person's time, you introduce yourself, and ask them smart questions focused on getting the info you need to make a decision. Then you decide. Those folks become a part of your network and often end up being connections to jobs once you know what you want to do. You might find yourself talking to folks happy with their work...and who don't have a degree.

The tricky part, especially for introverts, is getting people to commit to talking to you. There are many career resource books that discuss this topic and tell you how to approach it.

[redir]

I would not recommend getting an engineering degree (or any degree) just because you think it's lucrative. You really should actually like the idea of being an engineer, then the money part just happens. But anyway you need the degree for almost anything today. Unemployment rate for those who hold a Bachelors degree is something like 3%. You need at least that to start. You are plenty young enough - go for it.

[Davist]

to echo the above, currently we look at people with Masters type degrees for "pure" engineering work. Figure out what part of engineering you'd like, certainly the "cloud economy" (I'm in data center power) is one of the bright spots, not hampered by commodity pricing/reliance on public $$ (like infrastructure or renewables).

I started as an EE but now have moved toward a pure technology role after sales/marketing/management path over the last couple decades.

There's certainly (I'm in Phila, though not unique nationally) a cool program with the electrical contractor's union IBEW and NECA the contractors association, where they pay you and you end up with a degree (though an associates) while learning the trade with employment benefits.

Some of the most successful people I know are in the "trades" and have moved into mgt / ownership roles. They have trouble finding qualified people in general, and I see opportunity for smart technically oriented folks like you seem to be.

As for the Solidworks/CAD stuff, there's currently opportunity for what's called "lean construction" using BIM (REVIT, what's called 4D CAD, including the time/project management aspect) type modeling for construction projects, one of our clients in San Jose has something like 150 engineers on staff just for turning out the models for this approach. As the old time-y electrical guys (GE, ABB, EATON, Schneider, Siemens) catch up, they'll need to hire folks directly for this as well, though with IT stuff, I'm guessing that it'll be "globally sourced" while the construction part will have to remain more local as a general statement.

[fa63]

My wife is an EE, my brother is an ME. I am a CE. Anyways, if you are going into drafting for money, then don't. They get paid OK but certainly nowhere close to what an engineer makes. My wife who has been an EE for 4 years supervises two drafters, both with 20+ years of experience, and she makes >50% more money than them.

If money is important, then I suggest looking into computer science. It is the hot field to be in right now, and will continue to be so for a while.

[benb]

I would think about getting into Software Engineering if this is something you want to do.

Unlike Mechanical/Electrical/Civil engineers none of us are professional engineers, almost none of us are in professional societies.

What does that mean? Lots of people who don't have a Computer Science degree (definitely the best degree for working software) at all. It's a lower barrier for sure.

I do have my CS degree, but I've worked with lots and lots of smart people who did not have one or had a liberal arts degree. Once you get your foot in the door and have a few years of experience you're fine in this field with the exception of maybe some of the big companies like Google and Amazon who are very focused on degrees and having just the right resume. (And they're really looking for mostly graduates right out of school who they can indoctrinate in their way of thinking right from the beginning.)

Just about everything pays better than religion (unless you're cut out to be a TV evangelist) so if you're really worried about money almost anything is going to be up as long as you don't go crazy and decide your true calling is really theater or music.

Others are right though.. it's more than a degree, you need to have the right mindset for a particular field and really love it to be successful. If you come into this thread thinking you want to become a mechanical engineer and you really know it my suggestion for computer software is totally off base.

The other thing with "I'm good at math" is if you do go the degree path you have to realize these fields have very high bars at good schools. You go into a top notch engineering school and you see kids who got a perfect score on the math SAT and were the class valedictorian fail out. The schooling is very very hard compared to liberal arts fields. Most of the time in math/engineering there is only one or a very small # of right answers, the professors are very tough, and there is vastly less grade inflation than in liberal arts schools. You can get into some of these fields without a degree but keep this in mind if you do go back to school. It's pretty hard to get back on that math train once you get off and a lot of these schools have "math for engineers and scientists" and "math for everyone else" and they're not the same difficulty even when they have the same course title!

[572cv]

I earned a BA in visual studies, worked in architecture and was a builder for 7 years before going back and getting a degree in civil and structural engineering. Going back to college was a hard mind shift, but once undertaken, really stimulating. I really wanted to understand fundamentally how the materials I had been working with to form a building worked, and why they worked. In other words, I was motivated by a curiousity and passion for what I was doing. I ended up with my license as an architect, after working in engineering and then architecture for a while.

Today, my feeling with respect to building sciences is that Mechanical and Electrical engineering are the most interesting and influential fields to pursue. The impact of developments in these areas on our climate, on peoples' health and on energy consumption are huge. I am pleased to see anyone discovering a passion for mechanical engineering. Engineering applies scientific understanding in a manner which is fundamentally beneficial to society. In its best examples, it can be the essence of beauty as well.

May I suggest that you thoughtfully consider what you want to achieve on a personal level, and then set yourself on a course to achieve that. That will help establish the value of different degrees, or whether you want to approach this field in a different way.

[superbowlpats]

Polish your PowerPoint skills.

[Ralph]

Any internships available that would let you get into the field you want....and then let you work up thru experience and company paid schooling? Check thru the placement office of where you graduated from...as a start.

[shovelhd]

I'm an EE. I started designing digital logic and got bored of pushing gates around. I moved into CAD support, management, and IT. IT in general is going through the race to the bottom no matter what you read. There are lots of jobs but there are 10x candidates. What employers demand today is proof. To get a sniff at a good job you need certifications and preferably an internal contact at the company. Employers, for all their screaming about not being able to find good help, are more picky now than ever. So unless you have a solid contact with a hiring manager that will take a chance on someone without a degree, you won't even get a response past the application receipt. I'm just being honest here.

It doesn't take an engineering degree to learn a CAD program, but using a CAD program doesn't make you an engineer. It's not just the math, it's the subjects you wouldn't think would matter, like materials science and thermodynamics that form the foundation of the craft. If you really want to move into engineering without an internal cheerleader, I'd suggest going back to school and getting your MS. Your undergrad doesn't matter, other than the classes you may need to take in addition to your grad classes.

Good luck.

[Tandem Rider]

I would try to think about what the world might be like in 30-40 years. I know, good luck with that. But seriously. I would be wary of something that is easily moved somewhere else. For example, drafting is easily outsourced to anywhere with an Internet connection. Engineering and web design are others. I'm thinking about my BIL here, he's an EE in a supervisor role. He has only 1 engineer under him in the U.S., dozens in 3 other countries where they pay (lots) less. All of the support roles (such as CAD and tech writers) required by engineers are also overseas, but not always in the same country.

Something that requires hands on, at the location. Skilled trades, medical, etc. Otherwise you are simply participating in the race to the bottom hoping you don't get pulled early.

Good on you for thinking about it before its too late. Good luck!

[NHAero]

ME here, with undergrad and masters. I think it's possible to get work without a degree as some have suggested in this thread. I think also that my engineering education with a very firm grounding in engineering physics prepared me to be quite flexible in what I would choose for work. I ended up working in buildings, focusing on high performance buildings (healthy, resource efficient, durable) and having a good general engineering education helps me understand what others do without being an expert in their field. I think this is quite different than starting as a drafter and working one's way up learning a very specific part of one industry that the company works in.

At your age I would first determine that there are areas of engineering that would really excite you to work in, then commit to further education. You might not have the background to start to enroll in a master's program in engineering, I don't know enough about what you learned as an undergrad. A typical ME undergrad will have taken mechanics of materials, structures, heat, mass, and momentum flow, fluid mechanics, systems dynamics and controls, computers, manufacturing, design amongst other topics, and will have had math through calculus and a couple of college-level physics courses. (Note that I'm 63 and all this may no longer be true!) At the time I went to engineering school those disciplines had the highest amount of required coursework of all the possible majors.

I've had a lot of fun doing engineering over the years. My wife says I'm only interested in buildings and bikes.

[uno-speedo]

If you're considering a career change, don't settle for being a drafter. If I were 20 years younger, I'd think about doing some type of computer programming degree.

[Mikej]

I would say to apply to an Engineering program at a 4 year college. Do you have the prereq's to be considered? I actually worked my way in as you describe, but I started in the military, worked as a pipefitter, and a heavy equipment mechanic, built surface mining equipment etc. while I went to school. (for many years...) With my son wanting to enter into an EE or ME next fall, I can tell you this -be prepared to be very underqualified -he has a Solid Works certification, AP CALC, AP Physics, Material Processing, AP Chem etc. And with a 3.8+ is barely in his class top 20% -and very competitive entrance exam scores. I have to be honest, as I can see it, a company would really be taking a risk hiring somebody in your current skill set in an engineering support position, but best of luck -and think of what you want to do for the rest of your life!

[mtechnica]

Getting a 2 year technical degree in something robotics or automation related may work out well for you believe it or not. There is demand for smart people that are skilled in manufacturing that aren't necessarily engineers. As far as getting hired as a mechanical engineer it takes some luck or as they say getting your foot in the door but I don't think the market for engineers is what some people make it out to be at least in my experience. It seems like it's not that easy to get hired anywhere if you don't already have experience. If you do get into a BS engineering program make sure to try to do as much internship work as possible with local companies. I would suggest not working too much while you're in school and missing out on field related opportunities like I did when I was in school for ME. Also beware of the drafting thing because there are a lot of people out there that are basically cad/solidwork slaves and they don't make that much money. As far as people without degrees getting hired they may be a mechanical designer at first and can possibly move up in a company, however that seems to just be the old way and anymore employers mostly expect a degree, if not, you will be taking technician pay for salaried engineer work which means you will be working overtime releasing parts and making drawings and making the same money or less than guys on a shop floor that build things and mostly don't have the stress of working at home and being overtasked. This is just what I've seen but I don't know much still. I am a robotics/mechanical/electrical technician with a BSME and while I enjoy my job and the stress is low, I make less than an actual mechanical engineer. I am currently just waiting for the right opportunity in the bike or space flight industry to switch jobs, learning as much as I can.

Good luck.

[unterhausen]

for some reason, the students have decided that ME is the place to be right now. I would suggest another field. But as others have said, the people that do hiring seem to be box checkers, so I'm not sure how you are going to get into any sort of technical field without being able to check enough of the boxes they want checked.

[tigoat]

It would be difficult to switch over to mechanical or electrical engineering field from your religion degree at this point in time unless you go back to study engineering. Mechanical CAD drafting used to be a specialized field but nowadays most kids out of high school can do solid modeling and 2D drafting so there is no much demand for it. Circuit board layout and design would probably a better field than mechanical CAD drafting. I would stay away from mechanical engineering if possible as it is so common with a lot of competition. If I had to do it all over again, then my first choice would be to study computer science and become a coder and get a job at Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. I also would get into the healthcare field as a second choice. Good luck.

[estilley]

There are a lot of courses for the undergrad degrees.

With my math-Econ undergrad major I had already taken all the required math courses for ME before starting the post-bac program. With just the engineering courses it's still taking me four years. But I'm working a decent amount, best to take longer and be debt free on the way out. In terms of the workload, I'm still in the early stages, but it seems really easy so far. But I did go to a very rigorous undergrad institution that prepared me well.

It's a big decision, make sure it's what you actually want to do.

Cheers!


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[blantonator]

I'm a computer engineer and do system engineer, digital design, and pcb design. I think to run this route you really need an engineering degree. Drafters don't and experience software guys don't.

[CDollarsign]

I'm an Aerospace Engineer working in propulsion with a BS ME and MS AE. I know for a fact that you couldn't enter this realm without a bachelors degree. I used to do HVAC design and there were many engineers without degrees, but they were all old and have been working in that field forever (not much engineering going on...).

If I were you I would get into computer science. Being able to code is extremely valuable. At my company, you see more postings for software engineers than anything with the push for data and predictive analytics.

[sonicCows]

*

[Ralph]

As an old retired stock broker reading this (BS Finance and Economics and Masters in Commercial Science), it's obvious to me the paths that are the most rewarding going forward with best chance for success are the ones that are the most difficult to prepare for. As always....no free lunch.

[bigbill]

I work as a Process Engineer in high speed manufacturing. My background is nuclear engineering with a BS and a career in the Navy before retiring and doing this. I recruit ME, EE, IE, and CE for the company at a select group of colleges. I look for full time and co-ops, depending on what we need. A 3.0 GPA is typically the cutoff unless there is considerable experience to back it up. To apply to just about any company for an engineering role requires a degree in engineering. I'm technically a EE, but I'm not in that role. When I get a stack of resumes I do my first sort based on basic requirements (degree, GPA if a new hire, and experience). If any one of those is missing, it goes in the turn-down pile, won't even get another look.

As others have mentioned, a good field is mechanical-electrical tech. You can get this 2 year certification from community colleges. If you want to work in a certain area, the CC curriculum is usually tailored to the companies in the area. We're constantly looking for these techs and here in small town Texas, we start them at $25 an hour. Technicians are in demand and can't be replaced by a person at a terminal in India or other technical savvy country. \

If you do go the college route to get your engineering degree, make sure it's an accredited college of engineering. Touch base with HR for the companies where you'd like to work and ask them where they recruit.

[fa63]

As others have mentioned, a good field is mechanical-electrical tech. You can get this 2 year certification from community colleges. If you want to work in a certain area, the CC curriculum is usually tailored to the companies in the area. We're constantly looking for these techs and here in small town Texas, we start them at $25 an hour. Technicians are in demand and can't be replaced by a person at a terminal in India or other technical savvy country. \


Similar situation here in Atlanta with regards to EE-ME techs, and I am sure in many other parts of the country as well. The ones at my wife's company (electrical engineering) make very good money, though frequent travel is part of the deal.

[mtechnica]

Big bill are you saying you won't consider resumes where the gpa isn't mentioned? Do most people put their gpa in their resume or is it only fresh grads?

[mg2ride]

M.E. here. Been a Gov't employee my entire career but work very closely with A&E firms and large construction companies that employ engineers. I researched this same question a couple a years ago as my youngest was graduating H.S.

The overwhelming response was that he would need a 4 year technical degree to have any chance and that draftsman just don't make that much.

My youngest tried an Engineering Technology program but is/was struggling with that. It is effectively a non calculus based 4 year engineering program. You can get hired as a engineer with that degree as long as you have already passes your E.I.T.

He decided to accept an HVAC apprenticeship with a DOD agency. He will start at 30K and end up at 45-50K in 4 years with an associates degree. Not great but not a bad start for a 20 y/o. His opportunities will be almost limitless from there. He can stay a HVAC tech with the Gov't and expect to make 50-60K a year with OT, he can apply for Engineer Tech jobs within the Gov't that will pay 60-70K per year.

If big money was what he was looking for he could venture into the private industry world. Industrial sales would earn him engineering pay.


I have seen a couple of fields that are only going to grow and you can break into them at the ground (mechanic) level.

Fire Protection - Maybe as a sprinkler tech but certainly as a alarm tech.

Mobility equipment for Disabled people - Everything from mobility equipped vans to the mobility chairs. (Not the scooters you see on TV for old people). For the truly disabled that have decent medical insurance, this equipment is often covered.

[mike mcdermid]

do it , one piece of advice, if i could have my time again however

Bioengineering or adaptive engineering for disabilities would be two avenues i would look at, they have brought me more joy in the limited time i have had to design and make products, than an entire career of defence and Motorsport.

Basically you will trade human satisfaction for the cash rich industries but hell if i could do the last 25 years again ......

i stopped working (basically retired at 40 ) but make these now https://www.instagram.com/p/BJXx6ZBBJ_m/?taken-by=mmc_engineer as a hobby

decide if you want to be a hobby engineer and make stuff in your shed, some people can change the world and never having had a qualification, or a proffessional engineer, don't get me wrong when you see Le mans or people you know from F1 on TV you get a hankering to go back, but then you remember sometimes having walked that path to chose a different one.

[unterhausen]

Big bill are you saying you won't consider resumes where the gpa isn't mentioned? Do most people put their gpa in their resume or is it only fresh grads?

you would hope nobody would expect to see GPA for someone with experience. I taught a design class in spring semester. I was impressed by how many of the students had internships/coop experience. I think it really hurt the people that didn't have it. I'm trying to emphasize that for my son, but he's math/physics/Spanish major, so I'm not sure what he would do.

One thing that one of my favorite professors told me still sticks with me. Time spent in school is time wasted. Yeah, I said it. If you can figure out how to do something you want to do without school, that is your best bet. I wish I had let the Air Force send me off for my Ph.D. They only give you 3 years after a masters degree. I spent over 6 years. It was a bit ridiculous.

[Peter B]

to echo the above, currently we look at people with Masters type degrees for "pure" engineering work. Figure out what part of engineering you'd like, certainly the "cloud economy" (I'm in data center power) is one of the bright spots, not hampered by commodity pricing/reliance on public $$ (like infrastructure or renewables).

I started as an EE but now have moved toward a pure technology role after sales/marketing/management path over the last couple decades.

There's certainly (I'm in Phila, though not unique nationally) a cool program with the electrical contractor's union IBEW and NECA the contractors association, where they pay you and you end up with a degree (though an associates) while learning the trade with employment benefits.

Some of the most successful people I know are in the "trades" and have moved into mgt / ownership roles. They have trouble finding qualified people in general, and I see opportunity for smart technically oriented folks like you seem to be.

As for the Solidworks/CAD stuff, there's currently opportunity for what's called "lean construction" using BIM (REVIT, what's called 4D CAD, including the time/project management aspect) type modeling for construction projects, one of our clients in San Jose has something like 150 engineers on staff just for turning out the models for this approach. As the old time-y electrical guys (GE, ABB, EATON, Schneider, Siemens) catch up, they'll need to hire folks directly for this as well, though with IT stuff, I'm guessing that it'll be "globally sourced" while the construction part will have to remain more local as a general statement.

I'm an MEP guy for a large west coast GC, specializing primarily in healthcare. My early background was as a field journeyman electrician. I now typically lead the BIM team to develop the trade coordination model, scrub designs for cross-compatibility, functionality and code-compliance, review all submittals and RFIs and manage the installation, startup, testing, balancing and commissioning of the technical trade systems. With 36 years experience my skills are in demand and the pay is competitive.

Bay Area tradesmen can clear six figures comfortably and get to work with interesting and sophisticated systems. And so while a multi-year degree is useful one can do quite well in this industry without one given sufficient innate intelligence, curiosity and self-motivation. And given the right region and program you can be paid to learn and end up with money in the bank rather than six figures of college debt.

[Louis]

If I were you I would get into computer science. Being able to code is extremely valuable. At my company, you see more postings for software engineers than anything with the push for data and predictive analytics.

+1

"Regular" programming (e.g. C, C++, Fortran) if you want to work for "old-tech" companies or companies that do data crunching, and web-related languages (e.g. Java) if you want to work for "new-tech" companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages

[shovelhd]

Java is old school for the web today. It's nodeJS, Go, stuff like that.

[Louis]

Java is old school for the web today. It's nodeJS, Go, stuff like that.

I stand corrected. (I know very little about what's going on behind the scenes on the Interwebs.)

[shovelhd]

Java is still very useful for heavy lifting, but it requires an application server. Cloud apps get around this by bundling the app server in a container and scale the whole thing. The more modern languages don't require this and scale well.

Back to the OP. As a hiring manager, GPA only mattered to me for college recruiting, both for internships and college hires. After your first job, it doesn't mean much to me. Experience and fit are everything.

[45K10]

I worked as an electrician 3rd shift while I went to engineering school. The pay is good but most days I wished I had stayed an electrician.

Worst part about engineering are the engineers

[Louis]

worst part about engineering is dealing with the irrational non-engineers

ftfy

[hollowgram5]

ftfy
🍻🍻 my thoughts as well!

[45K10]

ftfy

See what I mean

[Louis]

See what I mean

;)

I didn't want to disappoint you.

[bigbill]

Big bill are you saying you won't consider resumes where the gpa isn't mentioned? Do most people put their gpa in their resume or is it only fresh grads?

GPA for new hires, a new hire is a future or recent grad. Experienced hires have experience and don't need to list a GPA.

[bigbill]

you would hope nobody would expect to see GPA for someone with experience. I taught a design class in spring semester. I was impressed by how many of the students had internships/coop experience. I think it really hurt the people that didn't have it. I'm trying to emphasize that for my son, but he's math/physics/Spanish major, so I'm not sure what he would do.

One thing that one of my favorite professors told me still sticks with me. Time spent in school is time wasted. Yeah, I said it. If you can figure out how to do something you want to do without school, that is your best bet. I wish I had let the Air Force send me off for my Ph.D. They only give you 3 years after a masters degree. I spent over 6 years. It was a bit ridiculous.

I would hope people could read and comprehend my post. New hire is a recent grad, the only experience is a GPA and intern/co-ops.

[KeithNorCal]

Lots of good comments already. Here's my CV. I have a BSEE, worked as a software engineer for 17 years, moved into finance for a decade or so, bought a restaurant and worked 80-100 hours per week for 4 years while simultaneously getting my MBA, restaurant burned down, insurance company is trying to screw us, still have a small financial advisory practice.

Don't do anything just for money. The conventional wisdom is "do what you love and the money will follow." The truth is that it's difficult to do something you don't love and be happy in the long term. Another truth is that if you do something you love, the money doesn't always follow. There are plenty of smart, honest, hardworking people who pursue their passions and don't succeed financially. But if they enjoy what they do, then kudos for them regardless.

A true "engineering" position will generally require a bachelor's, if not a master's. I've known some brilliant people who became very senior level managers at huge companies (e.g., Apple, Adobe) without even having a bachelor's degree. Those people are truly brilliant and the exception to the rule. Don't expect that kind of success, even with a degree.

Lastly, follow your heart. Take the advice that makes sense to you, and ignore the rest. None of us have a lock on wisdom.

[Mikej]

+1

"Regular" programming (e.g. C, C++, Fortran) if you want to work for "old-tech" companies or companies that do data crunching, and web-related languages (e.g. Java) if you want to work for "new-tech" companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages

I know coders are in demand, but I would feel leery of an occupation that can be "internetted" from overseas. RF is where I think I would try to break into

[ojingoh]

I'd invest some time talking to people who love what they do and can keep humble and hardworking at it before I got more education. Talk to more than a few engineers, programmers, managers, entrepreneurs, salespersons.

I presume you're young enough where gaining a year of experience in something and going to find something more interesting is not going to hurt your professionally. I think being the outsider looking in is a privileged position- take your time and ask good questions.

[matthewhelmuth]

Wow! Thanks everyone for the abundant responses. i was a little overwhelmed by the diversity of responses, but I'll offer some reflections, add some specifics about my background and pseudo-plan, and go from there.

One of my friends in the narrow pool of engineering-type friends I have noted in an early conversation that there would be the camp of people who will say I need a degree no matter what, and there would be a camp who said there are work-arounds to a degree. It was interesting to watch that play out in this thread.

I particularly appreciated the note regarding informational interviewing. That's what I've been doing with acquaintances, a few of whom have been very generous in connecting me to their own professional networks. I'll be making a move to San Diego soon, and so abandoning some of that networking advantage, but I suspect I'll be able to build it back up through family and friends there.

A few specific responses:


I would like you, if you wish, to give me a better idea of what context you're using to declare the below statement about having an aptitude in mathematics. In short, engineering maths is per my experience only superficially to do with numbers, a lot more to do with symbols/theorems.

As for "getting into the field without a degree", my first reaction is utter skepticism. However, feel free to disambiguate what you mean by "getting into the field".

After reading through the responses here, I feel silly saying it, but I excelled in mathematics in high school. I never got into calculus because I made a shift toward the humanities, but I'm at a point where I've realized the humanities can't very well support a family.

To disambiguate my plan I'll respond to another post.


U=I think it is the right move to get your foot in the door with a good company who will let you do some work and pay to earn a higher degree. all the "big" engineering firms will hire draftsman (or whatever they call them) to do drawings, which is not a degreed job. you will need some training in mechanical design and CAD. it's a good entry level position and can get you a feel for working with an engineering/design team, and potentially allow you to pursue a higher education while you work.

where do you live, and what do you actually want to do? if you've got the right attitude and are flexible, anything is possible.

My plan to this point has been to teach myself Altium and do PCB layout. I was thinking to buy a computer, license the program, and take a few electronics courses at a community college to develop a baseline understanding. Simultaneously I'd plan to work through a few high quality textbooks at home in mathematics and introductory electronics.

My "realistic" plan to have going at the same time is to apply to my local electrical apprenticeship program. The reason I'd work on the home-training stuff is that the apprenticeship application process is very drawn out and there's a chance that the PCB layout route could result in a marketable skill in a shorter time period.

As I noted before, we're moving to San Diego mid November, and I'm hoping to build networks through my in-laws' church and through group rides.

I'll have time for all of this because we're biting the bullet and moving in with the in-laws for a time. I'll have about 9 months to either get another dead-end job and wait for the apprenticeship thing to pull through, or sit at a computer at home and try to develop a skill that interests me and might lead somewhere.

There's the long version of my thinking. Thanks again for all the responses!

[TunaAndBikes]

I'm a Mech Eng intern right now, finishing my B.eng soon.
I've heard a lot of my friend say that their degree isn't very useful. However, the 4 year of school learns to think and hae an edge regarding what you do as opposed to doing resolving Navier-Stokes every week (hahaha!).
As so many other say; engineering is so vast you can do pretty much any field.

I've been in the market recently and from what i've lived, without having any education or valuable experience it's hard to get taken seriously.

PM me if you have any questions!

Edit: I also agree that i often think that if i did have to do it again i would go into computer science. Truth is in most tech firms theres a mech eng to suplly into heat dissipation/smd/fans and other mechanical parts. I dont regret my choice as i couldnt see myself in anything else than mech eng. You know yourself best and you're still young. Think about it hard and commit to whatever your choice is.

[OtayBW]

...I have noted in an early conversation that there would be the camp of people who will say I need a degree no matter what, and there would be a camp who said there are work-arounds to a degree.
I don't think you'll necessarily need a degree to get in the door somewhere, but you'll very likely come in at a higher level, have better understanding of the field and aptitude for tackling more difficult and diverse problems, and have better advancement opportunities with the degree. No PE without a degree. In many places, you might not even make the short list without a degree. So, something to think about...

I can't say that I'm entirely clear on what you're looking for, however: on one hand, you're looking to 'get into [the engineering] field without holding a degree', and on the other, sounds like you're looking to get into a journeyman electrician program. Both sound like good pursuits, but I think you'll probably need to come to some kind of decision and set a course....

GL

[humboldt]

I'm a licensed Civil Engineer and I love it. I mostly work on the construction side, designing and building wastewater and water treatment plants.

I think the idea of getting into drafting is a good one. I do my own drafting for small projects but pay a drafter to assist on the larger projects. She charges $60/hr but is an independent contractor so pays her own insurance, rent, health care, etc. So probably makes around $20-25 per hour which is about what I'd pay a drafter if we had one on staff. But it's a great way to get started in the industry.

[arazate]

My Dad is an ME and my brother is a CE. My undergrad was international business and economics, with and MBA in International Business; I started off in the railroad/metro business through an internship. Surrounded by EE's and ME's; it rubbed off on me.

Moved into aviation, and now the oil and gas business. Deal with engineers on on a daily business; I'm the only non-engineer. I bring to the table business development and international sales; also well versed in thermodynamics and heat transfer.

Sales and supply chain are ways of getting into the engineering field. Once you are in, you can work on 'expanding' your horizons.

[marciero]

As a mathematics professor my background includes research in mathematics of signal processing (as a branch of electrical engineering) and work with professional engineers-mostly DOD contractors, though that was a long time ago. I've also taught ugrad engineering math, and am currently developing a data science BS degree program. Here are some thoughts based on my investigations and discussions with employers, mostly around data science.

The technology employers I've spoken with in fact largely want some of the same competencies that a liberal arts education is designed to provide-critical thinking is mentioned over and over. Also problem solving. Yes, those are nebulous terms, but describe the ability to think through and apprehend an entire problem, bring to bear different or creative approaches, recognize where additional expertise is needed, etc. That said, to get foot in the door you would need some basic computing skills like "language-agnostic" algorithm design, and some basic coding. The idea is that learning the syntax and functionality of different languages is not a big deal if you know how languages work and can think logically. Many employees use frameworks, systems, or languages that they expect to have to train a new employee to use anyway.

So you need not discount your humanities background if you go in a data analytics direction, especially since it is used increasingly in all fields. Some basic competencies like Excel and SQL would open up some possibilities I would think. Going the engineering route would be very different.

"Coding" is increasingly becoming more of a commodity in that lots of employers are outsourcing that, often overseas. That said, there are good jobs available for those with ability to code, along with some of the above skills.

Examples of specific languages that go a long way in data science are Python, SQL, R; the latter for statistics, It's possible to get competencies with these in "MOOC" type online courses, such as those from Coursera, often free or at very low cost. The attrition rates for these courses are very high though. The vast majority of students dont complete them.

There are also some intensive "boot camp"-type programs, either on-site or blended online. The one below is from a reputable company and appears to be quite good. It is expensive ($14,000 for 12 weeks). You would be much more likely to succeed with such a program if you have some mathematics and/or computer science background, and/or have very strong math aptitude and are very motivated.
https://generalassemb.ly/education/data-science-immersive

I agree that talking to others, networking, and spending time to research jobs and careers is a good idea. Good luck with your search!