White Industries VBC Crankset not compatible with Campagnolo...

[Mzilliox]

I was chatting to White Industries about their new and older cranks, and explained what i was after. this was their response:

"Hi Matt,
I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you. My main concern is with the Campy drivetrain. The cranks were designed around a Shimano / SRAM drivetrain so my concern is that the expected smooth shifting from the tooth profile design would not meet your expectations with the Campy drivetrain.
Best
Lynette"

not saying this is a bad thing really, its actually quite honest, but wow, basically saying they did not design their cranks to be used with Campagnolo. I find this interesting.

[AngryScientist]

it may not be "optimized", but any rings that will shift with shimano will shift with a campy drivetrain. all a FD does is move the chain from one position to another. the ramps/pins in the chainrings are what determine smoothness of shifting, and given the same width chain and same approximate FD throw, there shouldnt be much difference in shifting at all.

[guido]

Talk to Compass. Their Rene Herse Crank is working with Campy 11speed according to several sources I've heard from and hinted at broadly in several recent BQ issues...

[Steve in SLO]

I am with Angry. I don't see how a chainring would shift differently with different FD brands, unless the plate shapes foul up the ramps/pins somehow.

[Mzilliox]

Talk to Compass. Their Rene Hearse Crank is working with Campy 11speed according to several sources I've heard from and hinted at broadly in several recent BQ issues...

i have one of the Herse cranks, and its out of alignment or something, even though its virtually new. but may try it on another bike just to make sure. but the small ring rubbed the chainstay on my weigle in one spot, so i pulled it. it could be my crap wrench skills, but a Campagnolo crank works just fine.

that being said, the herse crank is a classic looking silver crank, the WI VBC is a modern looking black crank, huge difference.;)

[Mzilliox]

I am with Angry. I don't see how a chainring would shift differently with different FD brands, unless the plate shapes foul up the ramps/pins somehow.

I think we all know this combo can work, as many have used it before. I am only sharing the email i got direct form the source. they apparently aren't actually in the business of selling their stuff, as I am trying to buy 2 of their cranksets. they do not want to sell them to me because I favor Italian engineering it seems.

[austex]

Talk to Compass. Their Rene Hearse Crank ...

Great! ANOTHER bike category - road, cross, gravel...now I have to have a funeral bike??

[guido]

It's for your last ride...

[AJosiahK]

first off, Lynette is awesome....

second... WI 2x drive trains arent the best shifting up front in my experience. Ive set up ALOT of bikes with these cranks due to clients wanting low gears made available with WI and Hearse cranks etc. All levels of sram, (not etap) and all levels of Shim as well, including Di2. 9 - 11 spd too.

Ive not seen as good of performance from the Hearse cranks/rings. But keep in mind Im looking for 100% 10/10, not ~8

Best I could get is around a 8 out of 10.

Their large rings lack the quantity of pins and ramps that Shim and Sram build into their rings. . .

Per Campy, Ive never done one... but would expect it to work fine enough with a good front mech. Which campy does well.

Id say give it a try

[R3awak3n]

I think they are actually being honest. They have not tried it and so they don't want to tell you it works when it works but might not be optimal.

I can tell you that it works fine, seen it on a few bikes and have tried it on my own bike. I think they used to say that it does not work with 11 speed too and I have running 11 speed right now without any problems.

[slowpoke]

It's for your last ride...

A solution to our N+1 problems.

[kingpin75s]

I think they used to say that it does not work with 11 speed too and I have running 11 speed right now without any problems.

They redesigned their chain rings in the last couple of years and the new ones with the more visible logos work better with 11 as I understand it. As such, I bought out the end stock of the old rings that work better with my 9 speed drive trains and have none of that flashy logo-ing ;)

[kingpin75s]

WI 2x drive trains arent the best shifting up front in my experience.

Probably a fair statement (overall) as 34/50 shifts (as an example) with SRAM Rival shifters can be some effort from my experience setting these cranks up for myself and many others.

I personally run these with a 12 tooth difference up front with Dura Ace bar end shifters on multiple bikes, both road and mountain, and have exceptional shifting. Fast and crisp.

YMMV.

[ColonelJLloyd]

This is making me feel better about going with SRAM XX 42/28 over the VBC. I literally have the best front shifting on this bike I have ever experienced.

[eBAUMANN]

i would not let that stop me from building a bike with em...might not be "optimized" for campy but itll work.

if you are lookin at VBC cranks its probably because you want to run some wacky ring combo as well, which will probably shift like donkey balls anyways compared to the traditional ring pairs we are accustomed to.

[donevwil]

I'm running a newer "revised" VBC with 42-28 on Gen 1 Campy 10. Shifts very well, better I'd say than the SRAM crank it replaced even if the spacing between the rings appears to be slightly larger.

MTB 2x cranks are certainly an option if you can live with the wide Q-factor and limited/no 180mm options. Not everyone can (I can't) so it's VBC or nothing.

[kingpin75s]

This is making me feel better about going with SRAM XX 42/28 over the VBC. I literally have the best front shifting on this bike I have ever experienced.

Although I generally run a 12 tooth gap with VBC cranks for day to day setups, I do switch from a 32/44 to a 28/42 for rides like the Almanzo 100 and have had very good shifting. The 12 tooth gap is admittedly better though IMHO.

[Mzilliox]

I was thinking of getting a 48-34 setup and a 52-38, 14 pins between instead of 12. and trust me, i appreciate the honesty from them, Lynette has been awesome. I am not knocking White Industries in any way, only passing on the info. I'll probably try one, if it doesn't work, ill find something else.im sure someone will use it.

[R3awak3n]

I was thinking of getting a 48-34 setup and a 52-38, 14 pins between instead of 12. and trust me, i appreciate the honesty from them, Lynette has been awesome. I am not knocking White Industries in any way, only passing on the info. I'll probably try one, if it doesn't work, ill find something else.im sure someone will use it.

Do you just like the look of them? I like the way they look too but I would probably not be running them if I wanted close to compact gearing. I mean, why the 48t? over the 50t?

[verbs4us]

Running WI vbc 11 speed, 50-38 with campy drive train and all is kosher. Works as good as or better than all Campy. WI BB is rock solid. The main reason I chose WI was for the low Q.

[thirdgenbird]

I have probably seen more WI cranks teamed up with campag than I have with SRAM or shimano. As others have said, I wouldn't expect it to shift as good as a campag crank but it's probably comparable to the same crank with shimano.

[donevwil]

Running WI vbc 11 speed, 50-38 with campy drive train and all is kosher. Works as good as or better than all Campy. WI BB is rock solid. The main reason I chose WI was for the low Q.

I'm curious how you achieved a lower Q with the VBC, short BB spindle? Campy Ultra Torque cranks are 145.5 and a VBC with recommended 113mm BB is 150.

[oldpotatoe]

I was chatting to White Industries about their new and older cranks, and explained what i was after. this was their response:

"Hi Matt,
I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you. My main concern is with the Campy drivetrain. The cranks were designed around a Shimano / SRAM drivetrain so my concern is that the expected smooth shifting from the tooth profile design would not meet your expectations with the Campy drivetrain.
Best
Lynette"

not saying this is a bad thing really, its actually quite honest, but wow, basically saying they did not design their cranks to be used with Campagnolo. I find this interesting.

Not really true either..with anything but Athena Powershift type stuff..it'll work fine and dandy. I have put Campag shifters/ders on rigs that had everything from a old, 1986 SuperRecord crank to shimano 8 and 9s and it works fine.

[bicycletricycle]

shimano, sram and campy have a lot of intellectual property in this area. An all campy, all SRAM or all Shimano drivetrain will ALMOST always work better than a hybrid.

If you need the ultra super fastest quickest best lightning front shifts the VBC or RH cranks probably aren't for you. If you just need it to shift in time for the upcoming hill I would not worry about it.

[phoenix]

Digging this one up from 4 years ago. I wanted to chime in with this thread as it just seemed appropriate. However, if the powers that be would like to keep this Campagnolo specific just message me and I’ll start a new thread.

I have a White Industries VBC 48/32 crankset with a White Industries square taper bb with a 113 spindle shifted by a SRAM Force 22 (Yaw) front derailleur. When shifting, my chain is wanting to wedge between the big ring and little ring. It’s happening when dropping the chain down to the small ring from the big ring. The spacers used between teh rings are wide enough to where the chain doesn’t get caught so to speak, it will just ride in between until I shift back up to the big ring. It is fairly sporadic and doesn’t seem to matter too much where I am in the cassette. I need to shift mindfully down into the small ring or I may find the chain between the two rings. FWIW, I read here and there that shifting on the VBC isn’t always as smooth as some may expect, especially if accustomed to modern 11 speed drivetrains.

The chain is proper length, the front derailleur is adjusted “properly”, cables and housing are good, drivetrain has around 550 miles total. I checked the chainring bolts as well as the lockring securing the chainrings to the crank arm, double checked torque on crank arm to make sure it was on the spindle properly, tried another Red 22 chain and double checked that the small ring is oriented properly (which I believe it is). I have tried adjusting the height as well as the rotational angle of the front derailleur, all while trying to not negate the Yaw function. I have the small marked lines on the fore and aft of the derailleur cage aligned properly over the big ring, and height is appropriate. I have used this derailleur for years and has always performed flawlessly. The common denominator here is the VBC crankset, and my own wrenching skills? I’ve set up lots of front derailleurs (Yaw and non) and haven’t had this happen to where I wasn’t able to adjust it out in one way or another. What am I missing?

I’m curious if anyone else has experienced this while setting up the VBC crankset. I’m open to suggestions, as I would really like the shifting to be thoughtless as can be. Maybe it won’t be?

[nalax]

Digging this one up from 4 years ago. I wanted to chime in with this thread as it just seemed appropriate. However, if the powers that be would like to keep this Campagnolo specific just message me and I’ll start a new thread.

I have a White Industries VBC 48/32 crankset with a White Industries square taper bb with a 113 spindle shifted by a SRAM Force 22 (Yaw) front derailleur. When shifting, my chain is wanting to wedge between the big ring and little ring. It’s happening when dropping the chain down to the small ring from the big ring. The spacers used between teh rings are wide enough to where the chain doesn’t get caught so to speak, it will just ride in between until I shift back up to the big ring. It is fairly sporadic and doesn’t seem to matter too much where I am in the cassette. I need to shift mindfully down into the small ring or I may find the chain between the two rings. FWIW, I read here and there that shifting on the VBC isn’t always as smooth as some may expect, especially if accustomed to modern 11 speed drivetrains.

The chain is proper length, the front derailleur is adjusted “properly”, cables and housing are good, drivetrain has around 550 miles total. I checked the chainring bolts as well as the lockring securing the chainrings to the crank arm, double checked torque on crank arm to make sure it was on the spindle properly, tried another Red 22 chain and double checked that the small ring is oriented properly (which I believe it is). I have tried adjusting the height as well as the rotational angle of the front derailleur, all while trying to not negate the Yaw function. I have the small marked lines on the fore and aft of the derailleur cage aligned properly over the big ring, and height is appropriate. I have used this derailleur for years and has always performed flawlessly. The common denominator here is the VBC crankset, and my own wrenching skills? I’ve set up lots of front derailleurs (Yaw and non) and haven’t had this happen to where I wasn’t able to adjust it out in one way or another. What am I missing?

I’m curious if anyone else has experienced this while setting up the VBC crankset. I’m open to suggestions, as I would really like the shifting to be thoughtless as can be. Maybe it won’t be?


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200604/825c5a31468f844423505b2b9636d6d0.jpg
Gunnar Crosshairs with VBC 44/28, UN72 68x107 bb, KMC 11 spd chain, old Veloce FD shifts well for me. Centaur RD and shifters work great with a 105 11-32 cassette. I have not run a Campy crank so I can’t compare. This is a recent set-up so I’ll see how it works out long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[phoenix]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200604/825c5a31468f844423505b2b9636d6d0.jpg
Gunnar Crosshairs with VBC 44/28, UN72 68x107 bb, KMC 11 spd chain, old Veloce FD shifts well for me. Centaur RD and shifters work great with a 105 11-32 cassette. I have not run a Campy crank so I can’t compare. This is a recent set-up so I’ll see how it works out long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very cool! Shifts from big to small, and back are no problem? Chain not getting hung up from time to time between the rings? Looking forward to your thoughts on your setup once you’ve ridden it some.

Nobody else experiencing shifting woes with the VBC?

[Waldo62]

Until about five months ago, I was on bikes with 33 and 34-tooth small chainrings. Then I started to ride a lot more -- cutting out the commute to work and not having to get the kids to school helped -- regained my fitness, and am perfectly happy on 39-tooth (Campagnolo) chainrings again, even in the hilly East Bay. Moral -- ride more bigger chainrings, eh?

[zzy]

tbqh it doesn't work that great with shimano either

I’m curious if anyone else has experienced this while setting up the VBC crankset. I’m open to suggestions, as I would really like the shifting to be thoughtless as can be. Maybe it won’t be?

I can confirm this. Mine is quite worn where the spacers have hard edges that catch the chain and prevent clean shifting.

[phoenix]

tbqh it doesn't work that great with shimano either


I can confirm this. Mine is quite worn where the spacers have hard edges that catch the chain and prevent clean shifting.

It doesn’t work well with Shimano, SRAM and it’s “not compatible” with Campy (which we all know is not true). Apparently they had pans of redesigning their rings, but pretty sure the Covid pandemic put that on hold.

I went as far as flipping the orientation of the small ring, which didn’t seem to help at all. I’m really at a loss here. Only thing I can conjure up at this point is trying different spindle lengths.

I run one of their R30 cranks on another (Shimano) bike and the shifting is flawless. Different q factors, but pretty sure the two cranksets use the same chainrings.

[jtbadge]

The R30 stuff definitely uses different rings, as the 30mm spindle is larger than the opening at the center of the square taper VBC rings. No idea how they differ otherwise.

[phoenix]

The R30 stuff definitely uses different rings, as the 30mm spindle is larger than the opening at the center of the square taper VBC rings. No idea how they differ otherwise.

Yeah, I think you’re right, I stand corrected. Still begs the question of why one set can shift so well, and the other, well, yeah... Makes me wonder what the VBC was really optimized for?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Makes me wonder what the VBC was really optimized for?

The whole idea sorta suggests it wasn't "optimized" for any specific configuration at all, right? If it were they'd sell paired rings I'd think.

[Andy340]

White Industries are very helpful in general and may just be managing expectations ie it will not shift perfectly.

Square taper vbc works well for me and I am happy to trade some perfection in shifting to get a 46/28 on the front.

[phoenix]

White Industries are very helpful in general and may just be managing expectations ie it will not shift perfectly.

Square taper vbc works well for me and I am happy to trade some perfection in shifting to get a 46/28 on the front.

Fair enough. My only beef is going back and forth from ring to ring. It is what it is I suppose.

[phoenix]

White Industries are very helpful in general and may just be managing expectations ie it will not shift perfectly.

Why go through the R&D and not come out with something that shifts beautifully every time? I can’t wrap my head around charging a premium price for a product that work pretty well most of the time, for some people. I’m not trying to bash WI at all. I love them and their products. I just don’t get putting a product out to market that isn’t even optimized for 1 platform.

[jtbadge]

This crank has been out for ages, maybe it shifted better with, like, 9 speed? Wider chain, and all

[ColonelJLloyd]

Why go through the R&D and not come out with something that shifts beautifully every time? I can’t wrap my head around charging a premium price for a product that work pretty well most of the time, for some people. I’m not trying to bash WI at all. I love them and their products. I just don’t get putting a product out to market that isn’t even optimized for 1 platform.

Because that is the nature of an "all the possible combos" system. You can't buy a Shimano, SRAM, or Campagnolo crankset in any number of chainring combinations. They have done the design and testing and the results are specific combos that shift very well because they have ramps and pins to lift and drop the chain to achieve this. This is why there is only one correct orientation for each ring in these modern chainring combos.

[phoenix]

This crank has been out for ages, maybe it shifter better with, like, 9 speed? Wider chain, and all


That’s totally what I was thinking as well. Has to be. 9 and 10 are probably the sweet spot for best overall shifting.


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[phoenix]

Because that is the nature of an "all the possible combos" system. You can't buy a Shimano, SRAM, or Campagnolo crankset in any number of chainring combinations. They have done the design and testing and the results are specific combos that shift very well because they have ramps and pins to lift and drop the chain to achieve this. This is why there is only one correct orientation for each ring in these modern chainring combos.


You’re absolutely right. I think I just needed to hear a few voices of reason. I think my expectations were a bit higher than what the rings were designed to offer.


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[jtakeda]

interesting. I have the R30s with sram 11 sp that work beautifully and was planning the G30 with a campy build. i guess I'll see what happens

[phoenix]

interesting. I have the R30s with sram 11 sp that work beautifully and was planning the G30 with a campy build. i guess I'll see what happens
Interesting indeed. 68mm bb shell? Do you recall what spindle length you’re running?

[Black Dog]

Perhaps it's your FD. Something to do with the yaw design that does not throw the chain down fast enough or far enough to land on the teeth of the small ring and not the gap.

[R3awak3n]

I had these with campy and they shifted fine, not spetacular but fine. At the time there was not a lot of crank choices but plenty out there now and specially when absolute black now makes sub compact rings for 5 bolt cranks.

As far is the issue, I remember this happening once in a while, the 11 speed chain fell in btw the rings, tbh I do not remember how I fixed it but remember adjusting the FD until it stoped doing it

[phoenix]

Perhaps it's your FD. Something to do with the yaw design that does not throw the chain down fast enough or far enough to land on the teeth of the small ring and not the gap.

That’s what I was thinking as well.

I had these with campy and they shifted fine, not spetacular but fine. At the time there was not a lot of crank choices but plenty out there now and specially when absolute black now makes sub compact rings for 5 bolt cranks.

As far is the issue, I remember this happening once in a while, the 11 speed chain fell in btw the rings, tbh I do not remember how I fixed it but remember adjusting the FD until it stoped doing it

I may look into those Absolute Black sub compact rings. 48/32 in a 110? Now we’re talking!