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View Full Version : Cyril Dessel: greedy or stupid?


gone
07-18-2006, 03:50 PM
Recap: Toward the end of stage 10, Mercado and Dessel were in a break miles ahead and Dessel already had the yellow and polka dot jerseys. About 10k short of the finish, Mercado asks if Dessel is going to let him win the stage and Dessel says "No". Mercado stops trading pulls and spanks him in the sprint. Had Mercado kept working (i.e., had Dessel let him win the stage), they would probably have gained an additional couple of minutes which would have kept Dessel in the yellow jersey for 4, possibly 5 more days (he did a pretty decent ride up A d'H).

So is he stupid, greedy, or both?

saab2000
07-18-2006, 03:54 PM
He gambled and lost. So what?

Oh, and why do people make ridiculous comments about being French? It's the effin' Tour de FRANCE!!!!

swoop
07-18-2006, 03:59 PM
Recap: Toward the end of stage 10, Mercado and Dessel were in a break miles ahead and Dessel already had the yellow and polka dot jerseys. About 10k short of the finish, Mercado asks if Dessel is going to let him win the stage and Dessel says "No". Mercado stops trading pulls and spanks him in the sprint. Had Mercado kept working (i.e., had Dessel let him win the stage), they would probably have gained an additional couple of minutes which would have kept Dessel in the yellow jersey for 4, possibly 5 more days (he did a pretty decent ride up A d'H).

So is he stupid, greedy, or both?

it was a tactical mistake made on the bike in an unusual situation. it's called racing. it's hard to look at the big and small pictures while in a break. radios to the ds don't always work and he didn't know that a jersey was a given.
that being said.. it might have cost him an extra day in the jersey. he's hanging tough...
it's easy putting it all together from the couch.. but not so easy from the bike.

that being said.. if he was in contact with the ds.. there is no telling how much of a gap was agreed upon between them and phonak.

GoJavs
07-18-2006, 04:01 PM
If you've got one chance to win a stage in the TDF (and you are going to end up with the yellow jersey even for a day) why in the world would you give that up? :)

JohnS
07-18-2006, 04:13 PM
If you've got one chance to win a stage in the TDF (and you are going to end up with the yellow jersey even for a day) why in the world would you give that up? :)To get a bigger time gap?

J.Greene
07-18-2006, 04:18 PM
Recap: Toward the end of stage 10, Mercado and Dessel were in a break miles ahead and Dessel already had the yellow and polka dot jerseys. About 10k short of the finish, Mercado asks if Dessel is going to let him win the stage and Dessel says "No". Mercado stops trading pulls and spanks him in the sprint. Had Mercado kept working (i.e., had Dessel let him win the stage), they would probably have gained an additional couple of minutes which would have kept Dessel in the yellow jersey for 4, possibly 5 more days (he did a pretty decent ride up A d'H).

So is he stupid, greedy, or both?

I think that came down to an honorable sprint. On TV it looked like Dessel did more work(as he should if he was going to get yellow). I think it is cool to see two pros go to the line, and have the stronger man win.

JG

BumbleBeeDave
07-18-2006, 04:21 PM
. . . that Dessel was thinking that way. It was an undreamed-of gift for him or his team to end up in yellow. I read nothing ANYWHERE before the Tour giving AG2R any chance. I don't imagine Dessel--or probably his DS--were thinking as far ahead as this. I can also understand Dessel's desire to get the stage win, too. If you look at the final sprint TV coverage, you can see it almost paid off. He was gaining on Mercado when they crossed the line. If the course had been 10 meters longer or he had reacted a split-second faster to Mercado''s going, he would have had him.

BBD

gone
07-18-2006, 04:39 PM
. . . that Dessel was thinking that way. It was an undreamed-of gift for him or his team to end up in yellow. I read nothing ANYWHERE before the Tour giving AG2R any chance. I don't imagine Dessel--or probably his DS--were thinking as far ahead as this. I can also understand Dessel's desire to get the stage win, too. If you look at the final sprint TV coverage, you can see it almost paid off. He was gaining on Mercado when they crossed the line. If the course had been 10 meters longer or he had reacted a split-second faster to Mercado''s going, he would have had him.

BBD
You could be right of course. However, judging from the number of times the team car was up next to him after he was virtual MJ, it sure seems like they knew the score. It also appeared they (or at least the DS) had time to consider the trade-off of a (possible) stage win and 1 day in yellow versus a Voekler-like hanging on to the MJ for several days across the flats, having it on Bastille day, and maybe even keeping it in the first Alpine stage.

Oh, and why do people make ridiculous comments about being French? I didn't invent the phrase "gallic arrogance". It seems to me that if you and your breakaway partner are both working pretty much equally and you know you've already won some important prizes and the (possibly) calmer head in the team car has had 10k or so to think about it that not giving up the stage in favor of gaining more time on the GC is either a little greedy or stupid.

Waldo
07-18-2006, 07:26 PM
Is that 10k of distance or amount of money in his wallet to spend on Mercado :bike: ?

sevencyclist
07-18-2006, 08:27 PM
But he is certainly French. :)

No one ever claim Eddy Mercks was stupid for winning stages while still going for color jerseys.

As for greed, a few more seconds was not going to be of any long term benefit, while being a winner of a stage has long lasting meaning.

Imagine years from now

Dessel, wearer of yellow jersey in 2006 Tour de France for 5 days, announces he will retire.

vs

Dessel, wearer of yellow jersey in 2006 Tour de France for a day and winner of a 2006 Tour de France stage, announces he will retire.

I would rather take the latter. So, he gambled and will have the following:

Dessel, wearer of yellow jersey in 2006 Tour de France for a days, announces he will retire.

GoJavs
07-18-2006, 08:30 PM
To get a bigger time gap?

------

Again, how could Dessel know that things were going to turn out like they did? He had one chance to get a stage AND the yellow and he took it. He wasn't a GC guy. He was an opportunistic guy on a break at that point.

gone
07-18-2006, 10:21 PM
------

Again, how could Dessel know that things were going to turn out like they did? He had one chance to get a stage AND the yellow and he took it. He wasn't a GC guy. He was an opportunistic guy on a break at that point.
Without looking it up, name the guy who won the stage the day Voeckler got the MJ. Didn't think so.

I'm not being deliberately argumentative (though I normally am) but if I'm the sponsor I'd much prefer a frenchmen in the MJ for 5 days, up on the podium in my colors, gladhanding Hinault, doing the interviews, worldwide TV, hero to the french for having the jersey on Bastille Day, etc., etc., than one day in yellow (and maybe a stage win) then back to the anonymity of the peloton. Granted, Dessel was in the heat of battle and probably felt like he had good legs and after all how many opportunities do you have to win a stage in the TDF? But the time gap to the peleton began going down pretty quickly when Mercado stopped working and an argument could be made that having 3 or 4 minutes going into the flats might allow you to keep the jersey for a while. I wouldn't expect Dessel to consider that but the DS probably did, or at least should have since keeping the sponsor happy is job #1 for them. Who knows, maybe that's exactly what he did. There are no certainties in bike racing and he may have thought they might not be able to hang onto the jersey no matter how long the time gap so go for the opportunity in front of you.

GoJavs
07-18-2006, 10:59 PM
Without looking it up, name the guy who won the stage the day Voeckler got the MJ. Didn't think so...

...There are no certainties in bike racing and he may have thought they might not be able to hang onto the jersey no matter how long the time gap so go for the opportunity in front of you.

So, you are agreeing with me? I'm confused... :confused:

BTW - no, I can't recall who won the stage when Voeckler got the yellow, but I can name you the starting lineup for the 1984 Chicago Cubs! :banana:

Jason E
07-18-2006, 11:06 PM
At that point, with or without Mercado, he had yellow.

Now, why, exactly, after being in a break all day with the intent of a stage win would/should he give that up?

There is no reason not to try since trying will not have any impact on getting the MJ.

Perhaps Mercado should not have been so selfish to think he was entitled since his breakaway companion was getting the MJ. Perhaps Mercado should have worked equally and earned it instead of bellyaching about "fairness" in this situation.

There is working together in a break, and there is going for the stage win. At some point one of these ends and the other begins for everyone involved.

gone
07-18-2006, 11:11 PM
So, you are agreeing with me? I'm confused... :confused:

BTW - no, I can't recall who won the stage when Voeckler got the yellow, but I can name you the starting lineup for the 1984 Chicago Cubs! :banana:
Oh, a Cubs fan. You really know how to suffer :)

No, I'm not agreeing with you. It's certainly possible that all things considered the DS thought it was the right thing to do but based on everything I saw, it still looks like either a stupid or greedy move to go for the stage win. But ***DIK. As swoop said, I am (and, as far as I know, all of you are) making the call from the couch. Isn't that part of what makes watching the tour fun?

Big Dan
07-18-2006, 11:13 PM
I really don't remember the name of who won the stage when Voeckler got yellow, but I'm sure he is referred to as "former TDF stage winner".....
Dessel wasn't going to keep yellow too long just for getting 30-60 seconds extra. :no: