Group Ride Issue

[Plum Hill]

Something has come up with our group rides. I'd like some opinions on the matter.

Background: group is mainly retireees; has group rides (designated time, downloadable cue sheets; designated leader; attendance sheets; insurance) at least four times a week; wide range of abilities (but mostly experienced); ages from early 60s to mid 80s (+ or-).
Group picked up a new rider last year. Said rider has special needs child, necessitating home arrival at set time. 8 AM starts work fine for him; 9 is iffy; 9:30 doesn't work.
Rider was overheard complaining to ride leader about upcoming ride change to 9 a few weeks ago.
Ride time changed to 9:30 in October. Rider countered by sending out mass email saying he was going to start an hour earlier and requested others to join him.

Two questions:
1) what are your general thoughts?
2) would said rider's gender play a role in your opinion?

Thanks.

[peanutgallery]

Time for him to find a new group ride

If you can make it work, welcome to join. If you can't, ride by yourself. Don't expect the world to revolve around you

Could care less on the gender

[paredown]

Not a gender issue, but a stupid issue--or maybe more kindly, a lack of social graces issue.

He should be pleased that your group adopted him, and that he had the pleasure of riding with a skilled group for the summer. Schedule change (for safety I'm assuming) and it no longer works for him, so he rides solo until the spring.

I am constantly amazed by people who think that they are the center of the known universe.

[ripvanrando]

Two questions:

1) what are your general thoughts?

Those who want to ride earlier should join this rider. Those who are ok with a later start should start later.

2) would said rider's gender play a role in your opinion?

Not unless the person changes their gender identity more than twice.

[weisan]

I ride regularly with a group of similar make up.

I would keep the communication line open, invite the rider out for coffee or something and have a friendly chat.

Every one of us have some kind of limitations, it will do us some good to extend some patience and grace to each other, because our turn will come sometime down the road...I can guarantee you that.

If he/she talks to the "leaders" and "organizers" first before he/she proposes the alternative time and get their "Ok", I will be fine with that. This is not some competition or snatch sales from competitors kinda deal. The dude has a life problem and he/she's trying to find a solution without giving up on his or her cycling passion, we should do what we can to help him/her...doesn't mean we will change our start time to suit him/her but I would have no problem with him/her trying to create or organize another group of riders who might face similar time crunch issue and actually prefer the earlier start time. We must allow riders to exercise some degree of autonomy and freedom or else the whole thing becomes restrictive and dominating which is counter to the values of cycling in the first place..at least to me.

Gender doesn't even factor in here.

Those are my thoughts.

[jdp211]

Good grief. Accommodate this person or let them start their own ride. You're not obligated to join. No one is. If an earlier time is more convenient then go. Or don't. But don't be insensitive to the needs of someone else because its inconvenient to you.

[carpediemracing]

Something has come up with our group rides. I'd like some opinions on the matter.

Background: group is mainly retireees; has group rides (designated time, downloadable cue sheets; designated leader; attendance sheets; insurance) at least four times a week; wide range of abilities (but mostly experienced); ages from early 60s to mid 80s (+ or-).
Group picked up a new rider last year. Said rider has special needs child, necessitating home arrival at set time. 8 AM starts work fine for him; 9 is iffy; 9:30 doesn't work.
Rider was overheard complaining to ride leader about upcoming ride change to 9 a few weeks ago.
Ride time changed to 9:30 in October. Rider countered by sending out mass email saying he was going to start an hour earlier and requested others to join him.

Two questions:
1) what are your general thoughts?
2) would said rider's gender play a role in your opinion?

Thanks.

Kudos to the rider for making sure they meet the needs of their special needs child.

I think it's not very nice to "poach" riders from a group ride, especially while complaining etc. Approached properly I think it would have been a non-issue. "As you know I have to be back by 10:30 AM to look after my child. The new start time of 9:30 is just too late for me to be a responsible parent. I need to ride at 8:30 AM. I'll be doing the same route as we normally do, if anyone is interested in joining me. Thanks for all the group rides and see you after the sun starts setting later!"

If the rider is whiny, etc, and brings up all sorts of other things then I can see how that would be cause for some bruised feelings. It's a passive aggressive thing to do.

Similarly it's best for the ride leader to not return that passive aggressive stuff.

Gender... I guess gender counts if the person can have a kid. If the person is a parent then that's all that matters.

[shovelhd]

I don't see the big deal. Let the person start their own ride. If your ride is strong it will survive.

[Joxster]

Ostricize the infidle and set their bars 3 degrees to the left and the saddle 3 degrees to the right. Post stories about them on internet forums and report them to the fashion police. Finally start the loop in the opposite direction, that'll teach them to mess with your group rides.

[chiasticon]

geez. it's just a bike ride.

if the time works for them, cool. if not, also cool.

as long as nobody's a jerk and rides, whatever.

[FlashUNC]

If you want to ride earlier ride earlier. If you don't, don't.

It ain't rocket science.

[sandyrs]

Why would gender play a role here? Because said rider is male and people wouldn't expect him to have to contribute to child care? What year is it? I really hope I'm reading this wrong.

[jruhlen1980]

When I can't make the group ride time I ride by myself. Not sure what the issue is? Are there people who feel like they can't ride by themselves? Do they also drive their bike to the start point?

[sitzmark]

...
Two questions:
1) what are your general thoughts?
2) would said rider's gender play a role in your opinion?


1) The rides sound like they are organized as part of a (semi) membership affiliation - designated ride leaders, attendance records, INSURANCE, etc. The conflicted rider should negotiate options for adding a "sanctioned" earlier ride (or extended course) that complies with all club/group requirements. If all agree that is not possible, then conflicted rider is free to announce s/he will be riding earlier if anyone wants to join. Both the conflicted rider and the "club" leaders should make clear the alternate ride does/does not provide club/group safety and insurance protections.

2) No

[earlfoss]

Tell him (or her) to STFU and do the work to organize their own group ride if it's that important to that person.

Everyone thinks they're special.... and they're not. Factoring gender into how you handle this is not necessary.

[guido]

Another example of why I generally ride alone.

[MattTuck]

I don't see what the problem is.

I have no idea on the tone of the email, or anything. But the actions you describe seem within normal limits.

Group (well within their rights) decided to change start-times.

[Brief aside: we have a group here that does a ride leaving on Wednesday at 5:30. As days have gotten shorter, they stopped it for the season a few weeks ago. I'd have been open to an earlier start time, say 4:00 to extend the group's rides into October. But that interferes with people's jobs, and makes the whole thing much more complicated. I guess what I'm saying is, whether they stopped the rides, or moved them to 4:00, it would have the same impact on someone who has to work until 5pm on Wednesdays.]

Rider sent email saying, "Hey, unfortunately, I can't do the new start time. But I'm going to go an hour earlier, if anyone wants to join me." Implicit in here is the possibility that other riders besides him may be inconvenienced by the new time, and prefer the original schedule.

Again, nothing wrong with it from my perspective. Of course, he should not represent his earlier ride as being officially part of the club. It is just a casual non-affiliated ride.

[berserk87]

Folks have to ride when it works for them. As Wei-San stated, we all have life things going on that dictate our ride schedules.

And group rides are a choice, not a need.

I am perfectly happy riding alone if my needs will not be accommodated by the group. And I generally have a good idea of a group's agenda before the ride - as not to force my will upon the group, I don't show up if the ride is something that doesn't suit me.

There are guys on my team that try and arm-twist a group of 10 others to accommodate the times that they can ride. If it's an occasional thing it's no big deal. The problem is that it is always that same two guys that do this and it gets old, when it goes against the grain of what the 10 others want. The group has grown weary of it and no longer bends over backward for these dudes. It's a very nice group, but after years of this behavior, well, you know.

In these cases, I bear in mind that they need us more than we need them. As noted, I can easily go out alone on a ride and be happy. Cycling is my hobby, my passion and my stress relief. I try to accommodate others but nowhere does it say that I need to be charitable at all times with regard to group rides. If accommodations and other what-nots make it too much of a hassle, I tend to gravitate to what will make it fun for me.

[kevinvc]

I agree with what seems to be the majority that the rider's request seems to have been delivered in a socially awkward way, especially as the newcomer to an established group. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to try to change their plans to accommodate him/her.

But I would like to add one possible bit of perspective. I don't know anything about this individual or their family's situation, but raising a special needs child can be extremely difficult. It can be a huge stress on the family structure and marriage. Because of the amount of care that can be required and social stigma, it is often extremely isolating. A lot of parents in this situation have few opportunities to escape and focus on themselves, even for a few hours.

If the rider in your story is in this type of situation, I would imagine finding the group was a godsend. This may be close to their only regular chance to participate in an activity they like and socialize with others. Having that go away could be a really big deal. In their mind, they may be making a simple request that could have a huge positive impact on their life if successful and be an emotional blow if not.

This is all supposition and I have no idea if it's applicable in this case. But I would suggest that nobody knows everyone else's whole story and a little patience in the face of what seems like a selfish move doesn't cost anything. I think it's unfortunate how easily some are in condemning and dismissing this person out of hand with such little information. To me, the responses of "ride at 8:30 or 9:30, whichever you prefer" directly address the OP's question without inserting judgement.

[sitzmark]

...To me, the responses of "ride at 8:30 or 9:30, whichever you prefer" directly address the OP's question without inserting judgement.

It does logistically. But should something happen and people start looking for someone to blame/sue, all will wish the relationship(s) between club and riders is clearly spelled out ... including (especially) the parent with the conflict who is "organizing" a ride of his/her own. This typically won't be the first thing on anyone's mind until it is.

[John H.]

I would not change the ride time based on one riders needs-
Let them ride on their own- also, put out an email that does not mention this rider but does remind others that the original ride time is "the" time.

[Ralph]

When I can't make the group ride time I ride by myself. Not sure what the issue is? Are there people who feel like they can't ride by themselves? Do they also drive their bike to the start point?

My view. I ride with a group of mostly retirees during the week also. If I either can't or don't want to do what they plan to do when they want to do it....I go out by myself. No big deal. We're a fairly steady group that has been riding together a long time....but we're not organized at tight as the poster. That sounds like being in the army or something.

[Hindmost]

...group rides (designated time, downloadable cue sheets; designated leader; attendance sheets; insurance)...

This is important. It says a lot about participants' expectations around responsibility and accountability. These issues need to be made clear for the "second ride."

Once upon a time when I was a 20-something and rode with the like, no one gave a @#$% about this stuff.

[beeatnik]

Midwest is so weird.

[raygunner]

Midwest is so weird.



Well, Chicago is getting a Rapha store. Say goodbye to being a flyover city!

[berserk87]

Midwest is so weird.

Yeah. It's the melting pot for all of the castoff behavior from both coasts, and the south.

[christian]

Well, Chicago is getting a Rapha store. Say goodbye to being a flyover city!Time to move.

[Dead Man]

Here's what I would do: absolutely nothing.

Then I'd have a tasty bourbon, neat.

Why even bother? It'll all work itself out.

[biker72]

This is just a ride, not a Syrian peace treaty. :D
The ride starts at 8. If you can make it...fine. No negotiation required.

[merlincustom1]

General thoughts: designated ride leader and insurance seems like overkill. A bunch of folks should just show up and ride. Whoever wants to go at 8, 9, or 9:30 goes then.

Gender: Whogas?

[ripvanrando]

General thoughts: designated ride leader and insurance seems like overkill. A bunch of folks should just show up and ride. Whoever wants to go at 8, 9, or 9:30 goes then.

Gender: Whogas?

To say nothing about the Release form that each rider has to sign each ride and then the signup sheet with two contacts with phone numbers just in case. 30 riders. One pen.

[buckfifty]

Not sure of the etiquette to poach riders from an already established group ride. Somewhat done in poor taste. There's always going to be a group ride that can fit his schedule/needs, I think it was asking a lot and selfish to change just to fit his schedule.

[unterhausen]

I think someone should assure this person that the ride schedule always changes this time of year and it's not a personal slight. They seem emotionally invested in the ride.

[vqdriver]

I agree with what seems to be the majority that the rider's request seems to have been delivered in a socially awkward way, especially as the newcomer to an established group. I don't think anyone should feel obligated to try to change their plans to accommodate him/her.

But I would like to add one possible bit of perspective. I don't know anything about this individual or their family's situation, but raising a special needs child can be extremely difficult. It can be a huge stress on the family structure and marriage. Because of the amount of care that can be required and social stigma, it is often extremely isolating. A lot of parents in this situation have few opportunities to escape and focus on themselves, even for a few hours.

If the rider in your story is in this type of situation, I would imagine finding the group was a godsend. This may be close to their only regular chance to participate in an activity they like and socialize with others. Having that go away could be a really big deal. In their mind, they may be making a simple request that could have a huge positive impact on their life if successful and be an emotional blow if not.

.

Empathy? Understanding? For a complete stranger? On the internet? Whaaaaaa???

[rustychisel]

Protocol wise, sending out a group email crossed a line. They should be told to pull their head in.

Had one of these on a group I belong to. Effed it up completely, claimed he was God's gift to competitive cyclists, started sending emails about training, tactics, diet (!!!) then changed the group ride conditions such that Saturday mornings became 7am to 11am hard riding 'cause he was always 'in training' for some dick pulling exercise.

Now, I and several others don't mind a hard ride, but we needed to be home by 10am to get on with the weekend, not to mention other obligations. A four hour hills ride was not on the menu. This guy effed it completely by being an insensitive egoist and split the group in two. Hope you don't have one of him/her.

[Ti Designs]

It's the death of good group rides, I've seen it happen far too many times in the 3 decades I've been in the Boston area. Good group rides are based on a set time and reputation of the ride. That time may change during the year, but that has to be well known. Any good group ride is based on a bunch of regulars, a number of riders who know about the ride and do it once in a while, and guests who somehow heard about it. Changing the ride times based on individual needs doesn't allow that to happen.

Nobody has asked the typical Jon Lovitz question - Is she hot?