OT Building own RC plane

[weisan]

My son has expressed to me several times in the past that he is very interested in building his own RC plane. Last night, we had this same conversation again and I thought I should honor his desire and help get him started. He's 14 and very good with his hands, has built forts, arrows, crossbows, robots etc, has a good head over his shoulder and love problem-solving.

So, without further ado, please help this father and son team get started on their first foray into the RC world. Thank you in advance!

[stackie]

I built RC planes in high school. Easy enough to do from a technical standpoint. We had RC club at school as one of our teachers was a fan.

Flying can be much more difficult. I'd recommend finding an experience pilot to help you guys get started. Otherwise, you will become experts as crash repair much faster than you become experts at piloting.

Buy big and slow. Easier to see in the air and gives some reaction time.

Put your contact info in plane. Maybe even a cheap locator. We lost one and got it back 6 months later.

Enjoy. It will be a great father son experience.

Jon

[seric]

My friends store sells "Flying Wings" which I believe can be crashed without too much damage for practice. This might be a good training tool to get going on the flying side.

[staggerwing]

It has been some time since I dabbled in the RC world, but today, most of the beginner stuff only has to be assembled, not built from a pile of balsa cutouts, glued, and covered.

With foam construction and strong electric motors, you too can be ready to destroy your first model in less than an hour. ;) Find a local RC group, visit on a Saturday, and ask questions.

To keep costs low, I never advanced to powered models. Was quite content dabbling with large, 2-channel gliders. Ten-minute flights on elastic latex tubing launch were common. Quite forgiving too, compared to a fast, powered model. Having flown real airplanes, it was quite a departure to fly an RC model. With a properly trimmed glider, letting loose of the controls would often fix minor mental lapses.

[saab2000]

If you don't nip this in the bud and do it with him he'll want to actually fly airplanes later in life and that's something I'd strongly recommend against!:roll eyes:

I've never done this but know people who do. I'd second the advice to join a club or visit one.

Also, there are tons of videos on YouTube.

Start small. These things will crash.

[austex]

Wei-pal, the Austin RC club has a flying field east of town, just north of Decker Lake - http://www.austinrc.org/pls/apex/f?p=RC5:SITES::::::

Maybe a visit out there some nice Saturday would net a contact or three for local instruction?

Tom

[benb]

Definitely find a club.. I used to be in a club about 8-9 years ago. Things have changed quite a bit from then, but also not so much.

Electric was coming up big around 2008 when I was involved and 2.4GHz spread spectrum radios were new and expensive and seemed be the future. Now that stuff is pretty well established and we have all the Quadrotor ("drone") stuff too.

I'm sure the gas stuff still has plenty of legs too, I see plenty of youtube videos of that stuff and most of that is still gas. (really 2 stroke nitromethane w/glo-plug engines.) Nitro is really really messy though. You end up having a side project to build your field toolkit which tends to be a specialized toolbox that carries your fuel, a moto battery for your starter, an electronics panel, etc.. and storage of tools and spare parts. (Lots of props) The flip side of electric is those batteries are pretty damn dangerous compared to fuel. You'd think a nitro airplane would be a bigger fire risk but it's not, and you need a lot of batteries to go fly all afternoon whereas a gallon of nitromethane fuel will last a season depending on the size of your plane.

Airplanes come in RTF, ARF, and Kit forms...

RTF = Ready to fly = might still be ~10 hours of labor in some cases? This usually means the engine and radio and everything are pre-installed. Plenty of planes are big enough you can't fit them in a car without some disassembly so you're still assembling and dissembling them every time you fly. You also need to go through and make sure everything the factory did actually works which explains there still being some work.

ARF = Almost ready to fly = Quite a bit more
Kit = Wood is cut and that's about it... hundreds of hours? I never actually got through one of these. Immense amount of time.

It is a time intensive hobby. Lots of work can get destroyed really fast. Join a club, go to a few meetings, and take their advice on what to buy to get started so that an instructor can teach you. This usually works by plugging the two radios together.. the instructor teaches you and can always take over to save your airplane. If you buy cheaper stuff below a certain level the radio hardware does not support training.

Worst thing to do is buy a "kit" and spend the possibly hundreds of hours of work to build the airplane mostly from scratch yourself then go fly it yourself without learning. Very good chance you destroy it in the first minute.

You can also buy PC simulators pretty cheap. Practice over the winter and destroy lots of planes while you learn how to not get disoriented controlling the plane when it's flying towards you.

It is a lot of fun. There are new options.. I don't have much anymore but I have a $50 4-channel helicopter that was a super high fun for dollar and I have a $100 drone with no automation that is really fun too. They are low time & $$ investments. But these are tiny and not easy to learn to fly with even if they are easier than a plane. For a plane you want to start with something with about a 5 foot wingspan for visibility and stability.

Joining a club helps you avoid being a dick and violating the FAA rules and endangering people too. There is a whole lot of that "being a dick and violating the rules" stuff going on with quad rotors these days. Just cause you don't risk your craft due to radio interference anymore doesn't mean you can just go fly anywhere anytime with anyone around.

[donevwil]

Kudos to you, I wish my dad and I had done this when I was young as it would have saved me a lot of money and frustration when I "grew up".

If you don't nip this in the bud and do it with him he'll want to actually fly airplanes later in life...

Truer words have never been written

... that's something I'd strongly recommend against.

Said you an my dad (career air traffic controller in Air Force and FAA).

[oldpotatoe]

I built RC planes in high school. Easy enough to do from a technical standpoint. We had RC club at school as one of our teachers was a fan.

Flying can be much more difficult. I'd recommend finding an experience pilot to help you guys get started. Otherwise, you will become experts as crash repair much faster than you become experts at piloting.

Buy big and slow. Easier to see in the air and gives some reaction time.

Put your contact info in plane. Maybe even a cheap locator. We lost one and got it back 6 months later.

Enjoy. It will be a great father son experience.

Jon

And when it's flying toward you, look over your shoulder otherwise really hard(for me) to turn it correct way.

[weisan]

Thank you thank you...everyone!

I read everything that you wrote here...word by word.

Thank you!

[oldpotatoe]

If you don't nip this in the bud and do it with him he'll want to actually fly airplanes later in life and that's something I'd strongly recommend against!:roll eyes:

I've never done this but know people who do. I'd second the advice to join a club or visit one.

Also, there are tons of videos on YouTube.

Start small. These things will crash.

What? Except for being a rich mans sport, getting a private ticket was something I was very proud of. Making noise out of avgas is great(and expensive!!) fun.

[saab2000]

What? Except for being a rich mans sport, getting a private ticket was something I was very proud of. Making noise out of avgas is great(and expensive!!) fun.

Private certificate yes. I generally recommend against it as a career though.

PS - Everyone who gets the private should get the instrument rating even if they'll never use it.

Sorry for the tangent... ;-)

[William]

Awesome Weisan-Pal! Sounds like a great father-son activity!


If you don't nip this in the bud and do it with him he'll want to actually fly airplanes later in life and that's something I'd strongly recommend against!:roll eyes:



I have a friend who flies for one of the majors...he often refers to himself as a "glorified bus driver". :)




William

[saab2000]

Awesome Weisan-Pal! Sounds like a great father-son activity!




I have a friend who flies for one of the majors...he often refers to himself as a "glorified bus driver". :)



Your friend is exactly right.

[RFC]

I have built a number of large balsam gliders and have always encouraged my sons to build and experiment. One of them built a fully functioning iron forge in the backyard out of a shop vac and an old charcoal grill.

The problem with building RC planes from scratch is that your son could spend 100 hours in construction and crash it in the first 30 seconds. Building is best done by those who have the skills to fly RC planes.

Better to give him one of the cheaper and more durable ready to fly planes to experiment and learn. We had two, which were crashed frequently and then disappeared beyond the horizon. As for building, get him a good glider kit and he will learn just as much.

[unterhausen]

I used to spend a lot of money at Steven's aero (http://www.stevensaero.com/) Lots of fun to build, and their smaller planes aren't too bad. It really hasn't increased my desire to fly full-size. I really learned to fly with a simulator. FMS is free, not sure of any of the other ones. At least FMS will teach you to fly towards yourself, which is the hard part. I can also recommend getting one of the small quadcopters. I have a blade nano QX 3d (https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Micro-Aerobatic-Quadcopter-Drone/dp/B00T3JIYES/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1475525031&sr=8-9&keywords=blade+nano+qx)which is very stable. The cheaper ones are not as easy to fly. I could see someone learning to fly with one of those. The advantage I see with a quadcopter is that it teaches you to do coordinated turns and throttle control that I never got with fixed wing models. Of course, you would have to unlearn tipping the nose forward to fly forward, but I feel like that's an easy adaptation

I was in aviation long enough. Many people that end up as pilots enter the field early in their lives before they know any better. It's amazing how many people I know that used to be military pilots and would never take an aviation job. My step brother was commercial for a while and quit. His dad was a career commercial pilot. Flying a model is fun, the quad pilots are trying to ruin it for all of us

[parco]

+ 1 to the PC simulators and +1 to finding a club. These two things can make learning to operate RC planes much easier. There are many kits for electric planes that are cheap and easy to repair . The time spent on a PC simulator will be well spent because it will save you hours of repair time when you actually start flying. This is a great activity for you to share with your son.

[wallymann]

My son has expressed to me several times in the past that he is very interested in building his own RC plane. Last night, we had this same conversation again and I thought I should honor his desire and help get him started. He's 14 and very good with his hands, has built forts, arrows, crossbows, robots etc, has a good head over his shoulder and love problem-solving.

So, without further ado, please help this father and son team get started on their first foray into the RC world. Thank you in advance!

there are lots of easy-to-assemble foam-based RC aircraft, thats where you oughta start. inexpensive, pretty robust (relatively speaking), easy to fix.

also, plan on crashing. alot. flying a model aircraft is like balancing a ball on the end of your finger. a very gentle touch is required. flying an RC is nothing like "flying" in a video game (unless you're talking a high-fidelity flight-sim app).

lastly, as others have suggested...practice with high-fidelity flight-sim software. like i said, flying RC takes a very light touch.

[oldpotatoe]

Private certificate yes. I generally recommend against it as a career though.

PS - Everyone who gets the private should get the instrument rating even if they'll never use it.

Sorry for the tangent... ;-)

Get a private ticket, join the military(USN recommended:p), as soon as ya have 1500 hours, auto upgrade to commercial ticket and special instrument card(they still have that?...meant you could takeoff in zero-zero weather).

Agree 100% with instrument. If Kennedy had one he may not have crashed. VFR at night isn't VMC..

[weisan]

As always, the wealth of knowledge and information here is simply astounding, thanks all.

[bobswire]

You can buy pre made kits, kinda like buying a bike online then finish building it up. My adult son Brand flies RC planes, his main hobby. Here are two video's of planes he has flown. BTW the wingspan of the prop is over 4ft and the jet is 4 ft in length.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPprwc5slfE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow0998yH3IA&feature=youtu.be

[Jaq]

Get a private ticket, join the military(USN recommended:p), as soon as ya have 1500 hours, auto upgrade to commercial ticket and special instrument card(they still have that?...meant you could takeoff in zero-zero weather).

Agree 100% with instrument. If Kennedy had one he may not have crashed. VFR at night isn't VMC..

Always surprises me how many pilots stop at their private ticket. Heck, I'm surprised how few pilots undergo actual spin training. I couldn't wait to strap on a 'chute and chuck an Aerobat around the sky with my instructor.

As to R/C...

Haven't done it in years, but back then, I loved gliders; specifically slope-scale warbirds like these (http://leadingedgegliders.com/eppGliders/). They're elegant, fast, fun. That they depend on a good breeze rushing up a local hill or cliff makes them a little closer to mother nature. I imagine Austin has some lovely spots to fly in the Hill country.

Good luck and have fun. My dad and I did.

[jlyon]

Small planes may be easier and quicker to build but when it comes to flying a bigger lumbering model is much easier to learn to fly.

I built models with my dad for several years and we made some with 10+ foot wingspans and a chainsaw engine.

Good times.

[Walter]

Many clubs have a club trainer you can rent for instruction. That way you can start learning without the wait to build. You can also see if it is for you.

I flew control line a lot many years ago: both stunt and combat. More recently I wanted to try RC. I went to the local club, got some lessons , and rented their trainer for it all.

I just could not see the plane enough to feel comfortable. Building them is very cool, flying can be stressful and difficult. I would echo what others have said...you will crash a lot of your handiwork. When I flew control line combat I totalled a lot of planes. However, they were simple to build and waaaaay cheaper than an RC plane.

Look at the great videos posted here to get an idea of how hard it is to see the planes in the air...then imagine when there are 4 or 5 in the air at the same time.

[Louis]

I think in the past the progression would be 1) Control Line, 2) Free flight, and finally 3) Radio controlled.

These days it looks like kids just go directly to quad drones, without any real building necessary, unless you want to customize them.

Just for the record, if it can't do wing-borne (fixed wing) flight then it isn't a real aircraft...

I always thought model sailplanes were very cool. So elegant. Somewhere in my parents' house I have model Schweizer that I never got around to building.

http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/1/3/0/a1124967-207-model%20glider%20ASW%2021%20064.jpg?d=1168033289

[cetuximab]

I had so much fun building a balsa plane, covering with fabric, installing radio control and motor.

I was 14 and would have destroyed it without good advice.

I was referred to retired gentleman who had flown RC planes for years, he showed me how to start the motor, trim the controls, and how to do flybys, land, and take off.

It made all the difference.

[merlinmurph]

Some repetition here, but still good advice.

A club would live to help out a kid that wants to fly. They'll have a good plane and a buddy box so he can share control with an experienced pilot

Flight simulator, worth its weight in gold, mostly when the plane flies towards you

I love flying gliders, both thermal and slope flying. My favorite is DLG - discus launch glider - where you just throw it up in the air. Kids want power, though.

Don't even think of building a balsa model and flying it until you are actually a decent pilot. There are great foamie electrics that are pretty resilient.

Good luck,
Murph

[Louis]

Flight simulator, worth its weight in gold, mostly when the plane flies towards you

This is probably considered cheating, but do any RC control boxes have a switch one could flip to indicate if the model is flying toward or away from you?

That way you could always use the same inputs and the system could reverse the inputs to the rudder and ailerons (if you had any) to compensate for your "backwards" inputs.

[unterhausen]

you still have to go through the transition between directions. Simulators will get you past that problem. I know very few people go through the whole buddy box thing any more, I didn't. I never felt my local club was particularly good for anything. There is only one guy that belonged to it that I would feel bad about telling that. I felt I wasn't welcome because I didn't have a noisy old gas trainer. Things probably have changed, and a lot of clubs were never like that.

There are lots of foamies where the airframe itself costs less than $20. You can get servos motor, batteries, charger and radios from Hobbyking for less than $200.

Quadcopters are great, and they are a lot of fun to fly. Thus the popularity. Not that I don't appreciate other kinds of flying. Most of my planes are fixed wing, and that's what I like flying the best. But I can take my little quad out into the backyard and have a good time for quite a while. No packing up the car and finding a field. I wouldn't fly a full-sized quad at my house, too many neighbors with shotguns

There were a couple of glider pilots that flew at the local school. They would always land when I started to fly, I'm not that bad, I swear.

[oldpotatoe]

Always surprises me how many pilots stop at their private ticket. Heck, I'm surprised how few pilots undergo actual spin training. I couldn't wait to strap on a 'chute and chuck an Aerobat around the sky with my instructor.



When I was training for my private ticket and freebie 172/182 upgrade..my instructor and I went out and spun the 150 and 172..quite fun..don't know if that's done anymore.

[Plum Hill]

Weisan said his son was interested in building an R/C plane, and you guys have him flying for Lufthansa.
Let's back up.
Does he want to build one or fly one?
Has he built something "simple" like a plastic or wood airplane kit? Forts, arrows, and crossbows ain't the same.
Walk before you run.

[staggerwing]

Did a couple, single turn spins in the 152 at the end of my private check ride. No, it absolutely was not a requirement. Check ride pilot was, Bill Hogan, one of the local Hogan aviation "clan", and good friend of my fathers. He thought it was a useful exercise, and it was. Although with enough altitude, it has been shown most of the high wing Cessnas will recover on their own if one simply takes their hands off of the controls.

The whole Hogan family was deeply immersed in SW Ohio aviation, owning an airport, running industrial freight in beat up DC-3's and Beech 18's, and flying just about anything with wings. Bill's father used to have a rare P-51H (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/who/case/45), and they were big into Waco's. Got a wonderful ride from Joe Hogan in their highly modified 1929 Taperwing. Only had 225HP originally, but they thought it would be more fun with 450HP. Tricky beast to land with a narrow gear. The only working instruments in the plane where the magnetic compass, slip gauge, and tach.

My father was also involved in SW Ohio general aviation for 60 years, although as an FBO. He also had his A&P ticket with AI sign off. He never flew. The city closed the airport in 2012, diverting most of the 100million to a downtown streetcar project, and dad passed two years later. Good memories.

As noted, playing with aircraft, of almost any size, can be quite addictive, and pocket draining.

[weisan]

Weisan said his son was interested in building an R/C plane, and you guys have him flying for Lufthansa.
Let's back up.
Does he want to build one or fly one?
Has he built something "simple" like a plastic or wood airplane kit? Forts, arrows, and crossbows ain't the same.
Walk before you run.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

My son and I had more conversations yesterday....he's more keen on the "building" part than he is on the "flying" part of the equation. We are talking about this little chap who asked me when he was 10 whether we can have a mini metal foundry in our backyard so he can make his own swords or sumthin'...and I said, "Hell no!"...no, I didn't use the "H" word, I just gently reminded him the fire hazard and the potential danger to his younger siblings running around the house. :o

It's all good...I appreciate the wide ranging information and knowledge.

[staggerwing]

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

My son and I had more conversations yesterday....he's more keen on the "building" part than he is on the "flying" part of the equation. We are talking about this little chap who asked me when he was 10 whether we can have a mini metal foundry in our backyard so he can make his own swords or sumthin'...and I said, "Hell no!"...no, I didn't use the "H" word, I just gently reminded him the fire hazard and the potential danger to his younger siblings running around the house. :o

It's all good...I appreciate the wide ranging information and knowledge.

If he really wants to build something, a traditional balsa free-flight (glider or rubber band motor powered) would be a fun, easy, inexpensive place to start.

For example, a Cessna 180 (http://brodak.com/rubber-power-free-flight-kits-accessories-1/rubber-power-kits/cessna-180.html), or any of these Guillows (http://www.acsupplyco.com/aerospace/guillows/600series.htm) models. I'm 51, and had Guillows models when I was a kid.

An old hollow core door on saw horses makes a great work surface. Typically, you throw a 2' x 4' piece of ceiling tile on the table, backside up, lay your plans across the tile, cover with a sheet of wax paper, and start building. Push pins into the tile hold your balsa pieces in place until the glue dries. Although, with modern cyanoacrylates, and kicker, that only takes a few seconds per joint.

[weisan]

stagger pal, can I just give him your number to call?
:D

[Jaq]

When I was training for my private ticket and freebie 172/182 upgrade..my instructor and I went out and spun the 150 and 172..quite fun..don't know if that's done anymore.

I don't think it's required. I think now you just have to take a plane to the edge of a stall and learn to recognize the signals.

As to models...

I built this about 15 years ago as a gift; came back to me a few months ago for a little maintenance. It's a Guillows Liberator. It's purely a static model. The only mods I made were to toss all the plastic parts and build all the cowling, wheels, turrets & guns from wood.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8128/30078487696_f7f8622c16_c.jpg

[RFC]

Small planes may be easier and quicker to build but when it comes to flying a bigger lumbering model is much easier to learn to fly.

I built models with my dad for several years and we made some with 10+ foot wingspans and a chainsaw engine.

Good times.

I've seen video of really big models, like WWII bombers with two chainsaw engines. There is a model company that is/was based in Des Moines, IA and would put on an annual model air show with fantastic stuff.

[bobdenver1961]

I've been doing some research on beginner RC Planes.

This seems to be the one that is very recommended. It has a beginner/intermediate/expert switch. There is a panic button that levels out the plane. Pretty much crash free!

https://www.amazon.com/flite-Apprentice-Beginner-Airplane-Technology/dp/B00CYHZFHK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

[unterhausen]

some of the Stevens Aero kits look good after you build them. They have smaller ones too. Setting them up to fly is also interesting. I guess you can build a batch of static models with the same amount of money it takes to get a flyable plane built

[CSKeller]

A lot of great info here...as always!

I fly model sailplanes (gliders to all those unfamiliar with the term).
I have been flying models mainly sailplanes off and on for more than 20 years. I have also been on the U.S. F3J Soaring Team (as a helper, not as a pilot) on four separate occasions (2006 in Martin Slovakia, 2010 in Dole France, 2012 in Johannesburg South Africa and just this year in Vipava Slovenia http://www.teamusaf3j.com/?page_id=1829).

From my experience, finding a club for help and advice is crucial. It prevents you from buying the wrong things or redoing things because you did it wrong. I have also found that powered (motors and engines) rc clubs were 'less friendly' than an electric and soaring club. I found the best, friendliest and most helpful people in the model soaring clubs in Colorado Springs and Denver.

All of the ARF and RTF 'kits' are convenient and help one get into the air quickly but don't bring much in the satisfaction, accomplishment and learning departments. Nothing can compare to the feeling you get when you build a model piece by piece and finally get it balanced and set up then see it fly and fly well! You also learn so much about math, science and physics when you build a flying model from plans.

A simulator is great for practice and very helpful and fun on those rainy or windy days when you can't fly. Stevens Aero has great models and is a good place but you could also try Mountain Models http://www.mountainmodels.com/product_info.php?products_id=178

Hope this helps! Enjoy this wonderful opportunity with your son and keep us posted. Weisan, feel free to pm me if you have any questions!

[jds108]

If your son moves forward with construction, I'll suggest that you have him wear some kind of glasses during construction.

Why? Because in the stupidity of my youth, I built a RC plane. While holding two pieces of wood apart that wanted to sit against each other, I dropped super glue in the joint. My fingers slipped, the super glue splashed, and I ended up with a drop glued to my cornea. An ER doc scraped it off. That was an altogether unpleasant experience.

[weisan]

Thanks for the kind offer, CS pal!