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View Full Version : Stage 13 spoiler - deal?


Ray
07-15-2006, 12:05 PM
OK, clearly Phonak decided to let the jersey go. Nobody in that break was a threat for the overall, although Pereiro is the strongest climber of the five. In addition to letting it go, though, do you think Phonak and IB have a deal for Pereiro's team to help Floyd in the Alps in exchange for spending a couple of days in yellow? Oscar was there to help Valverde but that gig's up. Floyd and Oscar were teammates last year - any relevance at all?

-Ray

saab2000
07-15-2006, 12:07 PM
yup

good move by phonak

saab2000
07-15-2006, 12:09 PM
Very smart of Phonak not to expend too much energy today. It was a long, hot stage. They are clearly believing that Landis can win it all.

obtuse
07-15-2006, 12:49 PM
bad move by phonak. pereiro has placed in the top ten of the tour before and with the support of his team he could be trouble. he can climb; he can attack and he's not someone a team who could actually control things would have let get away.

obtuse

Fixed
07-15-2006, 01:08 PM
alls fair in love and war....not a good move
cheers

saab2000
07-15-2006, 01:19 PM
Obtuse and I disagree. But it is a gamble by Phonak. I still think letting Popovych gain that time yesterday was a worse mistake.

Ray
07-15-2006, 01:49 PM
bad move by phonak. pereiro has placed in the top ten of the tour before and with the support of his team he could be trouble. he can climb; he can attack and he's not someone a team who could actually control things would have let get away.

obtuse

He finished pretty high last year, but he was well down until he was allowed to go on that long break on the mountain stage Hincapie won and then in another break a couple days later that he won. I seriously doubt he's a danger. But of all the guys in today's break, he's clearly the one with the best chance to hang in the Alps, so I'd be surprised they let him go without some kind of agreement.

-Ray

catulle
07-15-2006, 03:06 PM
After today's half-hour difference between the lead guys and the peloton, I think at this stage it is all up grabs, atmo. The first 24 riders, up to Axel Merckx are only 10 minutes away from Pereiro. Just saying...

Elefantino
07-15-2006, 03:14 PM
Did you catch what Moreau was saying to the camera today?

"Merci, Phonak. Merci pour tout."

Which either means:

a) Everyone knew Phonak was going to give it up today, and Moreau was thankful for the day of relative rest, or
b) He was ticked at Phonak for not chasing.

I'm betting the former. The fix was in. Now Landis can ride with abandon in the Alps.

Ray
07-15-2006, 03:27 PM
Yeah, just saw Floyd's post-stage interview on VeloNews. He seemed profoundly un-concerned about giving up the jersey and pleased that his old team-mate was the one who got it. I think its a sweetheart deal. Oscar's team had nothing happening in this tour once Valverde went out. Now they get a couple of days in yellow, which they'd have never expected and their sponsor has got to be very happy with. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see IB riders working with Phonak in the Alps. If Oscar does really well the first day in the Alps and it looks like he has a real chance to win, I take it all back, but otherwise...

IIRC, there was a potentially touchy situation between Floyd and Oscar on Phonak last year that they handled very well. They were co-leaders, along with Botero. Floyd and Oscar finished 9-10 on GC but their positions flipped a few times in the last week with Pereiro going in breaks and then Floyd coming back on top in the final TT. I remember thinking there should be some real sniping back and forth between the two of them, but there never was and they seemed to work it together pretty well and encourage each other for the sake of the team. They probably have a lot of respect for each other and are happy to form an alliance that's in both of their interests anyway.

-Ray

Climb01742
07-15-2006, 05:00 PM
silly question: wonder if IB has a yellow paris carbon (like floyd's yellow BMC)? bet IB had one for valverde. wonder if pereiro and valverde ride the same size bike? :p

serious Q: can pereiro TT? no, right?

serious shoutout: way to go jens!! studly. though i think pereiro_sorta_had his eye on yellow, not the stage. still, jens rocked.

manet
07-15-2006, 05:06 PM
still, jens rocked.

jenstrong*











*atmo 4 cool

cs124
07-15-2006, 10:09 PM
phonak just pulled the second stupidest move of the tour...

...the stupidest, of course, being mcewen burning Davitamon matches chasing the previous day's break because oscar was within, what, 300 points of the green jersey... :crap:

Grant McLean
07-15-2006, 11:11 PM
Anyone hear why Robbie Hunter and Nic Jalabert finished a couple of minutes
behind the main field today?
Couldn't they get eliminated for being outside the time cut?
That'd be something for phonak!

g

Marcusaurelius
07-16-2006, 12:04 AM
OK, clearly Phonak decided to let the jersey go. Nobody in that break was a threat for the overall, although Pereiro is the strongest climber of the five. In addition to letting it go, though, do you think Phonak and IB have a deal for Pereiro's team to help Floyd in the Alps in exchange for spending a couple of days in yellow? Oscar was there to help Valverde but that gig's up. Floyd and Oscar were teammates last year - any relevance at all?

-Ray

I believe Pereiro lost 28 minutes in the last mountain stages so he's not much of a threat to win the tour. I don't see much point in killing your team on a brutally hot to please your vanity with the yellow jersey. It was a smart move by Phonak.

goonster
07-16-2006, 12:18 AM
Pereiro is not a podium threat. C'mon folks . . .

By the way, I'm pretty sure that this is the international symbol for "half an hour, bishes!"

http://www2.canoe.com/archives/sports/nouvelles/media/2006/07/20060715-142209-g.jpg

gasman
07-16-2006, 12:24 AM
I love Jens Voigt-he reminds me of the old joke...

How many ADD kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?








Wanna go ride bikes ?

I agree with Goonster and Saab.
Not that I know shiite.

Steelman
07-16-2006, 12:53 AM
bad move by phonak. pereiro has placed in the top ten of the tour before and with the support of his team he could be trouble. he can climb; he can attack and he's not someone a team who could actually control things would have let get away.

obtuse


Since he could finish top 10, I would argue that Pereiro is more of a threat to the other riders in the top ten such as Kloden, Rogers, and Moreau. T Mobile and AGR-2 stand to loose alot more than Phonak if things play out as expected.

Climb01742
07-16-2006, 06:27 AM
how big of a wiener was moreau to b!itch that phonak wasn't pulling the break back? dude, put your boys on the front if you wanna save you top10 or #1 french rider placing. from my seat in the peanut gallery, phonak looked smart.

and i'll risk showing my ignorance yet again... come the alps, with george, ace and martinez riding for him, i say popo_could_podium. along with robobank, who else has stronger support riders? plus, johan ain't as dumb as t-mobile's DS. podium: floyd, dennie, popo. there, i said it. let my stupidity shine! :D

Ray
07-16-2006, 06:55 AM
and i'll risk showing my ignorance yet again... come the alps, with george, ace and martinez riding for him, i say popo_could_podium. along with robobank, who else has stronger support riders? plus, johan ain't as dumb as t-mobile's DS. podium: floyd, dennie, popo. there, i said it. let my stupidity shine! :D
According to a short interview/article with Ballan (the guy Friere wouldn't work with the other day to chase down Popo), the rumor behind that is that Disco and Rabobank cut a deal that Friere wouldn't contest the stage against Popo in exchange for Disco working with Rabobank for Menchov in the Alps. Who knows if it's true, but if it is, Floyd surely better line up some additional help from IB or someone who can help.

I know less about any of this stuff than probably anyone here, but I'm endlessly fascinated by it. More interesting than baseball, imho, and baseball can be pretty damn interesting.

-Ray

spiderlake
07-16-2006, 07:40 AM
http://www.sundayherald.com/56702

Interesting speculation about LA going to France. The article goes into the "feud" between Floyd and Lance, an attempt at reconciliation and then speculation about LA's true motive for visiting the tour. Interesting article but no idea how much is true.

1centaur
07-16-2006, 09:25 AM
If Phonak had been as strong as prior Disco teams, letting Pereiro get the MJ would have been stupid because it would change the odds a little. Phonak is weak and this move admits that (but saves them energy, the best they could hope for), but neither that non-shocking news nor Pereiro's previous peloton-granted success really changes much, IMO. Rabobank is strong enough without Caisse D'Epargne or Disco to give Menchov a legitimate shot, and Landis is not as programmed as Armstrong to need the Disco non-isolation formula. He can just close his eyes and go with Disco :) He's experienced enough not to crack and not to go in the red zone. He'll ride steady and hard and if it's good enough it's good enough.

This year, unless Menchov raises his game, it should be good enough.

obtuse
07-16-2006, 12:31 PM
watch for sastre in the alps. if he attacks and vaires his tempo, no one least of all landis will be able to hang. carlos is the potential spoiler here. landis needs a steady hard pace; if that's disrupted by continued attacks by the likes of sastre or even someone like rujano; the race is going to open up alot.

i still see pereiro and menchov in it to the end.

obtuse

Fixed
07-16-2006, 12:42 PM
menchov is a beast..I agree different climbing pace will hurt floyd... he can't jump out off the saddle

Climb01742
07-16-2006, 01:23 PM
knowing that hard accelerations hurt floyd's hip, will teams/riders use that tactic in the alps? i'm not sure telling folks about his hip was so smart.

GoJavs
07-16-2006, 06:40 PM
is a 'podium threat'. He has finished 10th the last two years. BTW - what did Floyd finish last year? 9th? In any event, I don't think it's a good move at all. This guy can ride. Keep in mind, he was Hincapie's breakaway companion last year thru the toughest stage of that tour. Hincapie beat Pereiro on the line for that sprint (after sitting on his slipstream for the last couple of K's) and was annointed as the second coming of Lance!!! Pereiro lost that sprint and now he's a chump? :crap:

Fixed
07-16-2006, 06:42 PM
he's no chump he could be the champ
cheers

saab2000
07-16-2006, 06:44 PM
i'm not sure telling folks about his hip was so smart.

I believe his hip will be replaced and hurts, but I also believe that it is probably not as bad as everyone is led to believe. He can still race.

Still, I believe jerk when he says Sastre is a wild card here.

I also think letting Popovych get all that time back was a mistake.

Still hard to say about yesterday. But I thought it was telling that nobody wanted to help Phonak. I wonder what that is all about.

Still, it is the most interesting Tour in a long time with lots of potential winners whereas the past few years it was already finished by now.

Ray
07-16-2006, 07:56 PM
http://www.sundayherald.com/56702

Interesting speculation about LA going to France. The article goes into the "feud" between Floyd and Lance, an attempt at reconciliation and then speculation about LA's true motive for visiting the tour. Interesting article but no idea how much is true.
We obviously don't know if this is true, but that's the second source I've seen for the idea that Disco and Rabobank have a deal - I never would have thought of it in terms of Lance STILL trying to screw Floyd, but it makes a bit of sense. Lance still owns a chunk of that team and can probably influence it quite a bit. If it is true, it moves Lance way past the "single minded obsessive champion" who could be an a$$hole in the service of getting the job done to just pure friggin' A$$HOLE. At least in my mind. And if its true, I wish Disco nothing but pain and suffering with no more stage wins. Not that we'll ever really know.

GO FLOYD.

-Ray

atmo
07-16-2006, 08:21 PM
We obviously don't know if this is true, but that's the second source I've seen for the idea that Disco and Rabobank have a deal - I never would have thought of it in terms of Lance STILL trying to screw Floyd, but it makes a bit of sense. Lance still owns a chunk of that team and can probably influence it quite a bit. If it is true, it moves Lance way past the "single minded obsessive champion" who could be an a$$hole in the service of getting the job done to just pure friggin' A$$HOLE. At least in my mind. And if its true, I wish Disco nothing but pain and suffering with no more stage wins. Not that we'll ever really know.

GO FLOYD.

-Ray
it must have something to do with the initials atmo.

Big Dan
07-16-2006, 08:36 PM
Nah , not Lance........... :no:

goonster
07-16-2006, 09:38 PM
Pereiro lost that sprint and now he's a chump?

He's not a chump. He's a spanish Jens Voigt, maybe. Heck, Floyd even called him a "friend of ours" (anybody else's ears prick up at that?).

Keep in mind that his high GC standing last year came courtesy of not one but two breakaways. Face it, that means the teams weren't marking him as a GC threat.

The Tour is won by consistently staying with, and gaining time on, the other GC rivals on the big climbs. Pereiro is out of his depth there. He was down twenty-six minutes at Pla de Beret. Part of a cunning plan? I think not.

Agreed on Sastre. We'll have to see how he performs under this kind of pressure, but since he's so high on GC, things could get very interesting if he lights the afterburners.

I also still think that Phonak are not quite the chumps everybody makes them out to be. They've still got some numbers and nothing has really been asked of them yet. Guys like Perdiguero, Merckx et al still have some matches left to burn, sez I.

Apparently Big George isn't taking his sunglasses off for interviews anymore. Heh. All these years it seemed like Bruyneel and the team could do no wrong. Them days be over.

Go Floyd. :beer:

GoJavs
07-16-2006, 09:54 PM
Now, how about his 10th place two years ago? How many breakaways got him into THAT position? That boy can climb, he won the Classique de Alpes in 2004.... :)

GoJavs
07-19-2006, 11:48 AM
Now, how about his 10th place two years ago? How many breakaways got him into THAT position? That boy can climb, he won the Classique de Alpes in 2004.... :)

-----

Like I said, that boy can climb. :)