calling all stem police out of retirement:

[swoop]

ewwwwwwwww. i mean, i know it's more mechanically sound to do it all track style like this... and 150mm of spacers would look mp. is it just me or did you go soft too?

c'mon floydypants. flip it and just bend over more.

[pdxmech13]

I have been looking for a picture too show his stem angle.
It looks to be a little different cockpit than on stage 11.

[Big Dan]

Ugly, but sexy................ :p

[Avispa]

Ugly, but sexy................ :p

I say, Sexy but UGLY!!!!

But Swoop! The stem is still long, so no need to be alarmed! :eek:

A.

[swoop]

Ugly, but sexy................ :p

down my way the phrase is, 'hot but not'

[bcm119]

I think The Hip prevents him from riding in a more efficient position, thus the funnybike.

[coylifut]

it's all part of that "is he dorky or is he hip" thang that Floyd sports.

[Avispa]

Maybe besides the tilted up stem and goatee, we will see unshaved legs!!!

That will be the ultimate Geek winning the Tour!

:p :p :p

[Ray]

If you're IN the Tour de France, you don't have to listen to the stem police. If you're LEADING the Tour de France, you become the frickin' stem police.

I have one bike with an up-jutter and one that's pert' near level. Now I'm gonna have to flip the level one so it juts! And they're both too short.

-Ray

[Climb01742]

at least the bike ain't green or red anymore. that yellow is kinda cool. bbdave must be salivating over that baby. :p

[Fat Robert]

i think 15mm of spacer would look purtier

but it really doesn't matter what i think

go floyd


(if floyd makes it cool i'm riding a bike with a 15cm tall ht and flipping a 150 to the sky)

[Bill Bove]

Ah, but what about those gaybars :confused: I guess he's not planning on riding in the drops while he's sportin' the yellow. Sit up and let the little people enjoy seeing you go by... :confused:

[saab2000]

If you're IN the Tour de France, you don't have to listen to the stem police. If you're LEADING the Tour de France, you become the frickin' stem police.

-Ray

Word

[The Spider]

photo angle counts for so much too...

it may not be as dorky as it looks...from a level photo shot.

[landshark_98]

you guys crack me up. Be thankful you don't have my dimensions and be faced with the question of either a 66-68 cm top tube and corresponding head tube length in order to get the no spacers, negative stem rise look (and that's with 10 cm of seat to bar drop) or accept the utterly uncool but very functional, and in an engineering way elegant fact of spacers and/or a positive rise stem.
Ride what works.

[swoop]

um. irony. tdf yellow jersey wearer is on that bike. he's either having hip or back problems. calling it out is what we call.. ironic. that's why i posted it.

that being said... a bicycle at it's highest form is sculpture. the hi-rise stem ruins the line.

okeeeeee?

....
i likes to ride them, but i likes to look at them too. i can't think of any other piece of industrial design that evokes as much emotion and still refers to the relationship between the human animal and the machine.
....

i'm willing to bet that mr. landisimmo is the only guy with a number ending in the numeral 1 (in the tdf) with a flipped stem right now. :banana:

[Ray]

that being said... a bicycle at it's highest form is sculpture. the hi-rise stem ruins the line.

This doesn't apply here, because the BMC bikes have reasonably flat top tubes, but I kind of like the look of upjutting stems on compact frames. Comes pretty close to matching the line of the upjutting top tube and sort of works aesthetically to me.

-Ray

[scrooge]

you guys crack me up. Be thankful you don't have my dimensions and be faced with the question of either a 66-68 cm top tube and corresponding head tube length in order to get the no spacers, negative stem rise look (and that's with 10 cm of seat to bar drop) or accept the utterly uncool but very functional, and in an engineering way elegant fact of spacers and/or a positive rise stem.
Ride what works.


Sounds interesting. Do you have pictures?

[93legendti]

you guys crack me up. Be thankful you don't have my dimensions and be faced with the question of either a 66-68 cm top tube and corresponding head tube length in order to get the no spacers, negative stem rise look (and that's with 10 cm of seat to bar drop) or accept the utterly uncool but very functional, and in an engineering way elegant fact of spacers and/or a positive rise stem.
Ride what works.


Or, put another way:
...whether you like threaded or threadless, there is no need
for all these head tubes to come up to the bottom of the
business end of a stem. where were you all in the pre-90s
when folks had some quill showing yo? nobody was ranting
about head tubes needin' watering so as to grow up higher.
or-were-they?!

[atmo]

Or, put another way:

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE
...whether you like threaded or threadless, there is no need
for all these head tubes to come up to the bottom of the
business end of a stem. where were you all in the pre-90s
when folks had some quill showing yo? nobody was ranting
about head tubes needin' watering so as to grow up higher.
or-were-they?!
-----------------------------
agreed atmo

[93legendti]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE
...whether you like threaded or threadless, there is no need
for all these head tubes to come up to the bottom of the
business end of a stem. where were you all in the pre-90s
when folks had some quill showing yo? nobody was ranting
about head tubes needin' watering so as to grow up higher.
or-were-they?!
-----------------------------
agreed atmo
That e-RICHIE spoke bibles of truth... :)

http://www.richardsachs.com/signaturered.html

[Fixed]

he does what he's got
to
cheers

[obtuse]

same thing happened to armstrong. his position evolved into an ugly upright one. neither of'em need to be low; they never ride into the wind. with armstrong his attacking and power position was never a low and long jens voigt style stretch; it was always a fast cadence out of the saddle jump in which the aerodynamics make little difference.

the whole point of a team focused around one rider in a grand tour is to make the leader as comfortable as possible; for floyd this involves gay bars and a stem put on the bike the wrong way. whatever; there's no accounting for taste.

obutse

[Fat Robert]

ok

this is a real response (literal reader comfort zone).

we should all know that position is contingent upon application. a racer, for the most part, needs to be as low as comfort will allow. a tourist doesn't. even amongst racers, however, there is considerable variation, given the build and skills of the racer. sprinters are as long low as they can get, and if you can develop the core strength and flexibility to get there, you'll see why -- better power and bike handling in a sprint. climbers -- particulary the spanish ones, if you look at them -- often have a fairly upright position, because they don't spend time in the wind and they're concerned about how they can generate power with the hoods and the tops as their primary positions. stage racers are somewhere in between, with a tendency towards a more upright climber position.

floyd rides fairly upright for a pro, but he's a gc guy. he may have limited hip flexion. he has a background as a mtb racer, and his setup has always had a little less saddle setback and a higher bar placement than most roadies (look at his old treks).

flipping the stem make engineering sense, and is thus a form of beauty, although not the Form (we won't get into the question of how the Manicheans would put the flipped stem on the continuum of Good and Evil in the world). i think it looks awful. bike stems are meant to be level. maybe -10. -6 if you like stem brands that begin with "O" (ok...apologies to the literal reader...i can't stay serious. deal with it).



it works for floyd for a number of reasons, about which we can only speculate. it is, nonetheless, ugly. floyd is not ugly. what floyd does on his bike is not ugly. however, the beauty that is floyd does not negate the ugliness that is his tinker-toy whacked out all angles and bends bike. it is a simple enthymeme: there is no canon of taste in the uci rules which states that stems must be flipped downwards -- therefore, the ugliness of floyd's bike is perfectly legitimate.

please do not take the existence of floyd's bike as evidence of the beauty of flipped stems. it is, like three-legged dogs, siamese twin gerbils, and my own bike riding skills, simply further evidence of the need for grotesque abberations from the otherwise harmonious unity of the creator's infinitely wise design. they are the flaws which allow understanding of the perfection of the greater whole.

as you were....

[Avispa]

Please have a talk with DBRK.... He is a great guy to discuss these topics with! By the way, I like what you just said, so WORD! for ya!

[coylifut]

Yo Fat, basically what you are saying is that stem angle has nothing to do with how fast you are (or are not) and everything to do with looks. Makes sense to me.

[landshark_98]

This morning as I was riding our custom Erickson tandem, with its sloping top tube (to accomodate a 6' 3" captain and 5' 3" stoker), 90 degree quill stem (at least its 14cm!), that carves, like a knife through butter, the road in Tuscany from Sassetta to Suvereto the the Hampsten's describe as the official UNESCO world heritage "World's Best Ride", and that old men throughout Tuscany came up admiringly murmuring, "bella bici" and that Glenn chose as an exhibit bike for the Seattle Expo; and I was thinking, gosh, this is one "ugly" bicycle according to some design parameters held as gospel by some on this forum. Sloping top tube and rising stem. THE HORROR.

Myself, I think its one beautiful bicycle, but not just because of how it looks. It is beautiful, like all my bikes(which span the possibilities: spacers, no spacers, neg. 10, positive 10, zero degree stems, level top tubes, sloping top tubes) because they bring joy to my life when I am on them. The most beautiful bike I saw today was the old Schwinn with ballon tires and high rise bars being ridden along by a woman who had to be in her 70s, smiling for all to see, thrilled to be out on a beautiful day crossing the Willamette river. The beauty of that bike, and to me all bikes, is the joy and happiness they allow us to experience.

For me, no bike that achieves this for its rider deserves the adjective ugly, dorky, gay or any other derogatory term. A bike without a rider may be a beautiful, aesthetic object, but for me it only becomes a bicycle when joined with a rider. Like fine wine, it is only truly lovely when it is experienced.

[swoop]

I like 3 legged dogs. always wanted one.

[Onno]

Everyone who thinks his bike is ugly needs to read this article in today's Times magazine. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/16/magazine/16landis.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

It explains in detail how serious his hip problem is and how much pain he's in. It makes you wonder a great deal about how he can ride at all, though the article tries to explain this, and how he's apparently able to produce about 35% more power this year than last.

My guess is that sitting higher reduces the hip pain, which makes us sound like dorks for complaining about how it looks.

[swoop]

My guess is that sitting higher reduces the hip pain, which makes us sound like dorks for complaining about how it looks.

we look like whale penises (look it up.. dork) for stating the obvious?

[CNY rider]

This morning as I was riding our custom Erickson tandem, with its sloping top tube (to accomodate a 6' 3" captain and 5' 3" stoker), 90 degree quill stem (at least its 14cm!), that carves, like a knife through butter, the road in Tuscany from Sassetta to Suvereto the the Hampsten's describe as the official UNESCO world heritage "World's Best Ride", and that old men throughout Tuscany came up admiringly murmuring, "bella bici" and that Glenn chose as an exhibit bike for the Seattle Expo; and I was thinking, gosh, this is one "ugly" bicycle according to some design parameters held as gospel by some on this forum. Sloping top tube and rising stem. THE HORROR.

Myself, I think its one beautiful bicycle, but not just because of how it looks. It is beautiful, like all my bikes(which span the possibilities: spacers, no spacers, neg. 10, positive 10, zero degree stems, level top tubes, sloping top tubes) because they bring joy to my life when I am on them. The most beautiful bike I saw today was the old Schwinn with ballon tires and high rise bars being ridden along by a woman who had to be in her 70s, smiling for all to see, thrilled to be out on a beautiful day crossing the Willamette river. The beauty of that bike, and to me all bikes, is the joy and happiness they allow us to experience.

For me, no bike that achieves this for its rider deserves the adjective ugly, dorky, gay or any other derogatory term. A bike without a rider may be a beautiful, aesthetic object, but for me it only becomes a bicycle when joined with a rider. Like fine wine, it is only truly lovely when it is experienced.

Thank you. Excellent post.
I think many people would enjoy life more if they stopped worrying so much about what others think about them and their possesions. I know it's done wonders for me.

[manet]

I like 3 legged dogs. always wanted one.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.contactmusic.com/images/artist/sandrabullockap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/bullock%2520adopts%2520three-legged%2520dog&h=150&w=150&sz=7&hl=en&start=17&tbnid=V_-3F75Kb9UydM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthree%2Blegged%2Bdog%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

[atmo]

.

[oracle]

^


thats so sexy i could cry.

[atmo]

^


thats so sexy i could cry.
.

[oracle]

^

thanks, that helps

[swoop]

I think many people would enjoy life more if they stopped worrying so much about what others think about them and their possesions. I know it's done wonders for me.
cheese is good for you.

[manet]

^


thats so sexy i could cry.

cry, cry, cry...

[oracle]

cry, cry, cry...

thanks, now i need more kleenex..

[dgauthier]

c'mon floydypants. flip it and just bend over more.

As if any of us would be riding *at all* with a femur like Floyd's. Didjya ever think the stem might have been revised to alleviate the constant, searing, mind-numbing pain? Which still isn't enough to stop him from being a contender in the Tour de effin' France? Huh? Didjya? ;)

[swoop]

As if any of us would be riding *at all* with a femur like Floyd's. Didjya ever think the stem might have been revised to alleviate the constant, searing, mind-numbing pain? Which still isn't enough to stop him from being a contender in the Tour de effin' France? Huh? Didjya? ;)

jeeez... no i never thought about that. wow thanks for the insight. i change my mind.. it looks cool. really rad. what was i thinking?

this post shouldn't be read by the humorless, sensitive, or the overly concrete.. it will confuse and dazzle you.

*thumbs up.

oy veyissimo. all said with love...

[atmo]

i'm willing to bet that mr. landisimmo is the only guy with a number ending in the numeral 1 (in the tdf) with a flipped stem right now. :banana:
a trend begins.
this just in atmo -

[obtuse]

^


thats so sexy i could cry.


are you a member of the fan club too?

obtuse

[swoop]

on a personal note... the farther away my hands are from the front axle (on a vertical plane).. the more disconnected i feel from the bike. the bike stops feeling like an extension of me and more like this thing i have to steer.
know what i mean?


yes, im sure floyzilla has somehow overcome this while in searing hip pain and leading the tdf.

[dgauthier]

jeeez... no i never thought about that. wow thanks for the insight. i change my mind.. it looks cool. really rad. what was i thinking?

this post shouldn't be read by the humorless, sensitive, or the overly concrete.. it will confuse and dazzle you.

*thumbs up.

oy veyissimo. all said with love...

Well, that's better. Oh, and a whale penis is a "dorca" . . . also sometimes referred to as a "free willy".

[Fat Robert]

its called mad handling skills, swoopster

i know how we can solve a big forum problem

literal = black

verbal irony = blue

irony of situation = green

hyperbole = red

understatement = purple

we could go on...a color-coded concordance to the personas of forum posters...that will prevent readings from being 3mm off...yeah...that's it....

[oracle]

are you a member of the fan club too?

obtuse

erm... huh? nice hat

[swoop]

its called mad handling skills, swoopster

i know how we can solve a big forum problem

literal = black

verbal irony = blue

irony of situation = green

hyperbole = red

understatement = purple

we could go on...a color-coded concordance to the personas of forum posters...that will prevent readings from being 3mm off...yeah...that's it....

works for me.. i thought calling mr.landis 'floydypants' was like.. very blue.

[atmo]

verbal irony is the new aloof atmo.

[CNY rider]

its called mad handling skills, swoopster

i know how we can solve a big forum problem

literal = black

verbal irony = blue

irony of situation = green

hyperbole = red

understatement = purple

we could go on...a color-coded concordance to the personas of forum posters...that will prevent readings from being 3mm off...yeah...that's it....

Thanks, that would really help the rest of us dullards catch up with your keen intellect.

I hate it when an interesting thread gets taken over by such sophisticates and I just can't keep up. Now the rest of us might stand a chance!

[swoop]

be nice boys..this is a feel good post about a lil upside down stem on a bikey wikey. none of this matters... good times.

[Fat Robert]

word swoop


that entire post was ironic, cny. the assertion that someone could somehow "read" 3mm (please recall the way "3mm" has been used over the past month or two on the forum) off is absurd. a color coded posting style is equally ridiculous.

its all good

[Ginger]

are you a member of the fan club too?
obtuse

Now that's something I feel strongly about. Trucker caps should have only a logo and one line of text - no more than two lines of text without a logo.

[landshark_98]

Having re-read the original post, I can now appreciate the irony. Perhaps its ironic that I agree that a neg. rise stem looks aesthetically better; all things being equal. But with an 84.25 cm bottom bracket to seat height, I would need a rather larger frame to get to that fistful of post rule. And in my mind frames larger than 62-64 pose their own functional and aesthetic issues.

But I think the point that this thread illustrates is that, like e-mail, posts to a forum that are meant to be ironic or funny, unless wonderfully illustrated like e-richie's posts, are ripe for misinterpretation. And like the old helmut wars on rbr.com, the forum fashion rule posts generate quite a stir (check out how many have read this thread).

Many of us read these quickly, early or late in the day, don't know the authors, have little context for the post, and hence miss subtle ironic or humorous twists. And belated explanations maybe sincere or they may be hollow; again, the anonymous nature of this method of communication lacks the traditional clues that tune us in to a person's true intentions.

What I think, as shown by enough threads on this forum to give credibility to this thought, is that when one expresses their opinion in a manner that is less than polite - dorky, gay, fredly etc., you engage in ad hominim attack, not disagreement over a fair topic, and you are running a real risk, whether you intend to or not, being disrespectful of someone elses decision's, possessions, etc. Some people take offense. Me, I don't care, much - a little or I wouldn't have read this at all. But I run an environmental non profit lawfirm in the heart of timber company in the Pac. NW, that was run off the U of O campus for suing over timber sales. Hell half of the region hates me, so a few more adverse opionions re my tastes or possession's is really just a little more water off the back of a duck.

But in too many years as a lawyer I have learned the dangers of ill-conceived, seemingly "harmless" written communication. If you don't want folks getting their panties in a bunch, don't diss their bikes and decisions. Obviously the folks on this forum are a passionate bunch when it comes to bikes. My rule, don't put in writing what you wouldn't say to a person's face. And there are some things your better off not dissing in front of me: my mother, my wife, my dog. My bikes - you're probably safe, but you never know when those Irish-Italian genetics are going to pull up and do a Zindane.

Peace and enjoy the ride. Be thankful we can.

[swoop]

this was about a 100degree riser stem. a picture of a dude's bike in the tdf that rocks his stem like most of the guys here who never race. it's not to embarrass or humiliate anyone.. its to have a giggle at a stem.

giggles are for fun. have some fun with us. everyone is invited. stem police included.

stems are people too?

[landshark_98]

my post was not directed towards you personally; it was a generic observation; as I stated, after re-reading your original post, I saw you what you were driving at; good on you.

Others jumped on the bandwagon in a less sporting tone; the same tone observed on a lot of these threads. I'm having fun, more importantly I learn alot on this forum; I just think some folks could either be a bit more polite or less sensitive when others react to remarks that frankly smack more of the high school locker room than adult conversation. Maybe that puts me in the the polite police.

[coylifut]

it's more like junior high around here

[swoop]

and for my final salute to this thread i'd like to stir the pot this way:

i wish my campy record had dura ace shaped hoods. there, i said it. i just couldn't carry it around in my head any more.

*sigh*
am i this alone in the world? do you feel me?

[MikeM]

I agree that Floydis' stem looks MP, but I have to agree it's sometimes necessary - I thing I've noticed this year in the tour is that more and more riders are starting to ride bikes with "odd" stems. I guess as we move into the carbon, non lugged era, where bikes are made in 6 sizes, people have to start finding inelegant ways to get around their fit issues.

[atmo]

<snipped>...people have to start finding inelegant ways to get around their fit issues.
.

[pdxmech13]

post of the day

Thanks for the laugh :banana:

[Big Dan]

I think Eddy is trying to talk to him about the stem!!!!!!!!!!

[davids]

and for my final salute to this thread i'd like to stir the pot this way:

i wish my campy record had dura ace shaped hoods. there, i said it. i just couldn't carry it around in my head any more.

*sigh*
am i this alone in the world? do you feel me?
I spent the weekend riding my bike with 'old' Ultegra. This morning, I got on my bike with 'new' Ultegra. Man, I like those new hoods.

Or maybe it's that the weekend bike has a +6 stem, and today's has a regulation -6?

When the bike looks better, I feel better, atmo.

[coylifut]

*** is Eddy riding? No. It can't be.

[swoop]

my buddy is interviewing floyd today for his film (actually right now this second). i'm texting him right now to give floyd cr8p about his stem... letting him know that the message boards are in crisis over the thing. i was a little more vulgar in my text.

[BoulderGeek]

my buddy is interviewing floyd today for his film (actually right now this second). i'm texting him right now to give floyd cr8p about his stem... letting him know that the message boards are in crisis over the thing. i was a little more vulgar in my text.

Now, _that_ is the definition of "connected!'

Tell FL that Ephrata, PA and the Red Rose Cycling Club says he should get that jersey back. And the Yellow SLC01 looks better than the red.