How much wheels-tires transform your ride and how I learned to enjoy Aluminum again

[keppler]

Ten years ago, when I first got into road biking, this aluminum Basso Zer was my first bike. It fit my budget, and having little knowledge of what it was (or could be) I rode it, but grudgingly, as it was stiff and not fun to ride for long stints. I was very keen on ditching it, but never got around to it.

I got a carbon one later, then steel, but after learning about how much wheels and tires make the ride quality, I came back to this one and tried it again.

This time with custom Ambrosio Nemesis tubular wheels with Vittoria Corsa CX 25's (with latex inner tubes) tubular tires. For clinchers I have Mavic Open Pro wheels shod with Veloflex Corsa 25's and butyl tubes, and they ride quite well also.

And now...I ride it all the time! It rides as nicely as my other two bikes, but with a far more ferocious surge on climbs and sprints that the other two bikes don't have. I have a whole new appreciation for a well built aluminum frame. The other two bikes sit quietly in storage.

So if you have an older frame you never quite enjoyed riding, this could bring it back to life.

[weisan]

keepler pal, I am glad you got reunited with your first wife...er...I mean, first bike.

Check this thread out:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=181504

[Ralph]

I agree. I believe wheels and tires (and air pressure) have more to do with ride quality than frame material.

[sonicCows]

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[Tickdoc]

I agree and the ones that won me over were campy neutrons. Light and fast they just roll like butter.

Timely post as I am waiting on a tubular set of ambrosios :beer:

Beautiful bike, btw.

[ultraman6970]

If the geometry is the right one, the fit is the right one... an aluminum frame kicks butt big time, happy you found new love for that basso.

I have an aluminum ride i need to love again somehow, tried to sell it several times and nobody wants it :) so gonna have to learn to love that bike again.

[ultraman6970]

I have a set of tubulars neutrons and the wheels are just awesome, in a matter of fact I thought they were going to be spagetti noodles with my weight, nothing, I cant feel anything wrong with the wheels. Years ago I had a set of ventos, spaguetti big time.


I agree and the ones that won me over were campy neutrons. Light and fast they just roll like butter.

Timely post as I am waiting on a tubular set of ambrosios :beer:

Beautiful bike, btw.

[Peter P.]

Well written.

I normally wouldn't believe a wheel/tire swap could change a bike's ride qualities so much, but after reading your short but convincing post, I find myself questioning my beliefs. I may have to find out for myself.

[martl]

Ten years ago, when I first got into road biking, this aluminum Basso Zer was my first bike. It fit my budget, and having little knowledge of what it was (or could be) I rode it, but grudgingly, as it was stiff and not fun to ride for long stints. I was very keen on ditching it, but never got around to it.

I got a carbon one later, then steel, but after learning about how much wheels and tires make the ride quality, I came back to this one and tried it again.

This time with custom Ambrosio Nemesis tubular wheels with Vittoria Corsa CX 25's (with latex inner tubes) tubular tires. For clinchers I have Mavic Open Pro wheels shod with Veloflex Corsa 25's and butyl tubes, and they ride quite well also.

And now...I ride it all the time! It rides as nicely as my other two bikes, but with a far more ferocious surge on climbs and sprints that the other two bikes don't have. I have a whole new appreciation for a well built aluminum frame. The other two bikes sit quietly in storage.

So if you have an older frame you never quite enjoyed riding, this could bring it back to life.

"Oversized Aluminum frames are too stiff to enjoy" has replaced "my frame got soft so i had to get a new one" as the top cycling myth of all times.

I have ridden a Principia aluminum frame, which was once a stiffness/weight-king, for 20 years now. Over that period, I had 3 different forks, 2 different saddles and 3-4 different wheelsets on it. Each of those components changed the way it rode very noticeably. The frame is the smallest part in that equation.
I think i could always tell in a blindtest whether i was on my AX Lightness saddle or on my Lightweights with the Veloflexes, but whether i'm on a "harsh" Aluminum bike or on a lugged steel frame? nope, not because of the ride comfort. Maybe from the BB response, if i focus very hard on it.

What stays the same is the response in the BB, though even that is influenced by lateral stiffness of the rear wheel, and your position on the bike, which can also be varied/ Seatpost setback, stem length, handlebar height. But if those two parameters are ok with you, the bike is ok.

I think i could make *any* stock frame either a plush or a harsh ride, using contemporary parts.

[Little Bill]

Friends have shown me the light with PSI and I think that is a close cousin to wheels and tires. When I took 15 psi out of my previous pressure, the feel was so much nicer. Then nicer tires / wheels made me question frame relevance.

[keppler]

To answer some questions:

The original wheels and tires on the Basso were Campy Vento and Vittoria Rubino clinchers. Now back then I knew little about bike stuff, so I'd pump them up to 110 psi, and that was on those 19mm rims and narrower tires. The ride was only tolerable on smooth roads, otherwise teeth rattled. Later bought cheaper tires and the ride was horrendous, so sold them to a friend. Things improved a bit when I put on Conti 4000s tires, better ride quality and grip.

Over the years I've played around with better tires (Continental 4000s), then different tire pressures, always inching towards what could be a great ride, but never quite was.

The carbon bike blew all that away, it rode great no matter what wheels/tires I had on it, very supple yet performed great for hours. But then I noticed when I put Campy Eurus wheels on it (23mm 4000s tires), they were stiff! Suddenly I had a cushy riding frame but stiff tires. It still rides great, but there is a difference with these wheels. I tried the Eurus on the Basso, that's when I understood what this frame could do. It was stiff, but exploded on climbs and sprints, it felt like a race bike; always ready to go.

I later learned about the Nemesis tubulars, and put those on the Basso. I couldn't believe the change in ride quality. Suddenly this stiff aluminum frame was ridable. But I never felt comfortable riding tubulars all the time, so I played around with clinchers to get close.

The closest I've come to that tubular feel is with Vittoria Open Pave EVO CG III clinchers with latex tubes on the Mavic Open Pro wheels. Only issue is I've had lousy luck with latex tubes, mostly I either get flats early on or they just fail. They rode as close to a tubular feel, but due to the poor reliability I went back to butyl. The ride got a bit rougher, but more reliable.

The best clincher/butyl tube setup I have now is the Veloflex Corsa 25 tires on the Open Pro wheels. The rubber is stickier, it grips better and rides more supple than the Vittoria Evo tires did. But, whereas the Conti 4000s 25s install 'big', the Vittoria 25 was smaller, and the Veloflex are even smaller. They're shallow and more square on the clincher rim (19mm), so they look more like a tubular than the Conti's do. And they perform better.

My next thing will be to put the Veloflex 25 on my Pacenti 24mm wide rims. The Basso is an older frame, never meant to have 27mm wide tires. I put the Pacentis on the back with the current Conti 4000s 25 (which measure 27), and couldn't fit them in. I had to deflate the tires to fit the wheel in.

There's a tad of space on either side and they will work, as long as the tire that goes on them is shallow and square, which the Veloflex seems to be. With this setup I could run 80 or 85 psi front, 90/95 rear, which will make the already good ride even better. On the Mavics I currently run 90/95psi, I weigh just under 200 lbs.

As for bike fit; don't waste your time getting a generic fit or letting a store do it for $60. I wasted years with this run and it was a waste of time. I finally went to a Pro fitter last month, and it made an enormous difference. Yes it was $$, but a month later every single ache and pain I've endured (because I thought it was just me) is gone! I'm setup on the bike correctly and can now really wring out every last ounce of fitness and power this bike can dish out.

I spent 5 hours with the guy, and we went over everything from flexibility, riding style, shoes, problem areas, etc. I had another friend who had minor aches go as well, she can now dish out power on her bike she never knew was possible, and no more aches.

I know bike stores would like to offer a good fit, but a Pro fitter is light years ahead of what they can do, and they can focus on key problem areas like feet, saddle, body position, etc.

[DfCas]

Expensive tires are the cheapest upgrade I have ever made to my bikes. No more low end tires for me.