650B Wheelset Recommendation

[JasonF]

I have a '16 Moots Vamoots that allows has clearance for some 28's and I'd like to go bigger for on and off-road excursions - so I'm considering a 650B conversion. I've done the measurements and there is about 40-41mm clearance between the fork blades and at least that much at the seat and chain stays. Looks like a true 35c will work; obviously 40s and above will likely be a no-go. BB drop should be also be ok.

Before I start spending cash, quick question:

Are there any factory-built (or readily available) 650B wheelsets that play nicely with Campy 11? Assuming the 650B thing "sticks" with me, I'll then consider handbuilts.

Thanks all!

[CMiller]

Hey JasonF, no wheelset recommendations but from what I recall the vamoots has a pretty generous bottom bracket drop, Im not sure I'd feel comfortable only putting 650b x 35s on there, it'll lower it too far in my opinion.

Maybe keep the vamoots as super fast fun bike, and get another fatter 650b bike on the side? N+1!

[jdp211]

Going from 700x28 to 650x35 (if you can find 650b tires that narrow) will definitely have BB drop implications. 650x42 is roughly equal to 700x23, so figure 35 is another 3.5cm of drop (assuming tire measurements are accurate, 42-35=7 and so that's 3.5cm top and bottom, not factoring in the additional drop from your weight compressing the tire).

[JasonF]

Interesting, thanks for the info. Per Rivendell's site, my bb drop measurements are right at the limit so maybe it's not worth pushing.

[blakcloud]

Right at the limit means it will work, just don't pedal through corners. The drop is around 9 mm when going to a 38 mm tire.

On two occasions I have offered to have people come over and dry fit an extra pair of wheels that I have. Beats guess work. Maybe someone close to you will let you do something similar. On the 650 Google Group I think someone had a thread of people in different cities that volunteered their services for this very service. I am in Toronto so no help to you.

If anyone in Toronto needs to try, I have wheels with 42 and 38 mm tires, plus long reach brakes.

[drewellison]

Going from 700x28 to 650x35 (if you can find 650b tires that narrow) will definitely have BB drop implications. 650x42 is roughly equal to 700x23, so figure 35 is another 3.5cm of drop (assuming tire measurements are accurate, 42-35=7 and so that's 3.5cm top and bottom, not factoring in the additional drop from your weight compressing the tire).

I think you mean mm, not cm.

[jdp211]

I think you're 100% right. mm not cm

[oldpotatoe]

I have a '16 Moots Vamoots that allows has clearance for some 28's and I'd like to go bigger for on and off-road excursions - so I'm considering a 650B conversion. I've done the measurements and there is about 40-41mm clearance between the fork blades and at least that much at the seat and chain stays. Looks like a true 35c will work; obviously 40s and above will likely be a no-go. BB drop should be also be ok.

Before I start spending cash, quick question:

Are there any factory-built (or readily available) 650B wheelsets that play nicely with Campy 11? Assuming the 650B thing "sticks" with me, I'll then consider handbuilts.

Thanks all!

I can build you some 650b using Record, DT or Miche hubs laced to Velocity A23, rear OC drilling...pm if interested. About $440 for Miche.
There are no 'factory' 650b 'wheelsouttaboxes', AFAIK.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I wouldn't bother converting a 700c frame that has only 41mm between the fork blades, personally.

[summilux]

Ergott built me some nice 650B wheels with shiny WI hubs. I've had them for 4 years now and I like them a lot.

[MerckxMad]

I think that Velo Orange sells factory built 650B wheels with an interchangeable freehub.

[.RJ]

There are no 'factory' 650b 'wheelsouttaboxes', AFAIK.

Ritchey has some now.

http://ritcheylogic.com/wcs-vantage-275-650b-mountain-bike-wheels

[559Rando]

Isn't 11s pretty interchangeable between Campy 11s, Shimano 11s and SRAM 11s? That could help if you're not locked into an expensive Campy hub.

Is your Vamoots the disc model? There are more options in that world, I think.

If not, there aren't a lot of off the peg/readily available 650B rim-brake wheels. Velo Orange usually has some (although they go out of stock from time to time). QBP used to have a line, but that's going back a few years. Velocity and other do them, but on a special order basis, I think. You might do best to get some wheels via CL, eBay or the classifieds here. Riv might have a budget set, too. Otherwise, try your "usual" wheels sources like OP, Longleaf, etc.

For tires, please don't call 35mm 650B tires "35c" wide. ;-)

[JasonF]

Thanks for the replies. All 11sp systems are interchangeable so no worries there. The Vamoots is rim brake so I'll have to switch to Riv Silvers or the Tektro equivalent. I'm inclined to just have a set built up - if the experiment fails I can always move them along.

[Birddog]

Can somebody who has some 650 wheels tell me what the actual diameter is? I have an xc all road bike that I've been thinking about switching to 650. The cockpit dimensions are perfect but the BB drop is high (or short) as is the standover and it drives me nuts (no pun intended). If I could gain an inch or more in standover I might be a happier guy .

[ripvanrando]

I wouldn't bother converting a 700c frame that has only 41mm between the fork blades, personally.

Could you suggest a minimum distance between the fork blades? 44 mm?

I'm converting a 700C right now and it is hard to know how wide the tires will actually run and where the widest part of the tire will fall on the forks. I have 48mm just before the fork crown tanges begin and then I get 44.5 mm. It looks like the widest part of the tire will fall somewhere in that neighborhood. I have tons of room in the back and will probably buy one 42mm 650B tire to test fit up front and if it doesn't fly, 38 mm should work. I even thought I could file down the tange and touch it up but that would be criminal as the fork is mint despite being pretty old.

BTW....650B wheels are pretty much bespoken or roll your own.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Could you suggest a minimum distance between the fork blades? 44 mm?


My point was mostly that a true 38mm is the narrowest 650b tire I would bother using. So, yeah, 44mm between blades for 3mm on each side of a 38mm tire would be okay for me.

For determining the widest part of the tire I'd imagine it's close enough to add half the width of the tire to the bead seat of 584mm/2. So, the widest part of your 38mm tire should be around 311mm from the axle

[rccardr]

Would be interesting to have some precise measurements form someone who's done this. I'm getting a pair of A23 650B's done by OP and would like to have a better idea of what size tires will fit on the Pelizzoli. Right now it's got 700 X 32 Gravel Kings on it, which come very close to 32mm wide and 32mm from outer edge of rim to outer edge of tire. Would be nice if I could put 38's or even 40's on it. Nicer for rough gravel like Cino and L'Eroica.

[drewellison]

I found this blog on converting to 650b very helpful when I did mine.

http://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blogs/650blog/1771-650b-conversion-guidlines

[sandyrs]

Ritchey has some now.

http://ritcheylogic.com/wcs-vantage-275-650b-mountain-bike-wheels

Is there reason to believe these will take an eleven-speed road cassette?

[drewellison]

Could you suggest a minimum distance between the fork blades? 44 mm?

I'm converting a 700C right now and it is hard to know how wide the tires will actually run and where the widest part of the tire will fall on the forks. I have 48mm just before the fork crown tanges begin and then I get 44.5 mm. It looks like the widest part of the tire will fall somewhere in that neighborhood. I have tons of room in the back and will probably buy one 42mm 650B tire to test fit up front and if it doesn't fly, 38 mm should work. I even thought I could file down the tange and touch it up but that would be criminal as the fork is mint despite being pretty old.

BTW....650B wheels are pretty much bespoken or roll your own.

My fork blades have 42mm room where the 650b tire goes through. I went with a 38 Pacenti Pari-Moto tire on Soma Weymouth rims. I knew it would be tight, but they're 36 spoke wheels so I am pretty confident I can keep them true to avoid tire rub.

With tire wiggle, the clearance goes down to about 1 mm on one side. There's no room for wide fenders (still using my narrow-ish 700c fenders which cover the whole width of the 38 tire and a little bit more). 1mm clearance is too close for comfort, so I wouldn't want to go on a week long deep-in-the-woods-out-of-communication type of ride. I'm thinking about filing down the fork tangs to give me a skosh more room.

Just another data point.

[mhespenheide]

Ritchey has some now.

http://ritcheylogic.com/wcs-vantage-275-650b-mountain-bike-wheels

Those are technically 650b, but are set up with 135mm spacing at the rear dropout and look like they might be disc-brake only. It might be better to refer to them at 27.5 wheels to distinguish them from 650b road wheels.

Like OP, I'm not familiar with any pre-built 650b road wheels with 130mm rear spacing and rims that are built for rim brakes. There used to be a seller on eBay who had some very cheap prebuilt 650b road wheels, but I haven't seen them for a couple of years.

If I were building up a custom frame today with the intention of riding 650b on the road, I might well go with 135mm spacing on the rear and disc brakes -- the mountain-style wheels are so much more prevalent than road-style.

[ripvanrando]

My fork blades have 42mm room where the 650b tire goes through. I went with a 38 Pacenti Pari-Moto tire on Soma Weymouth rims. I knew it would be tight, but they're 36 spoke wheels so I am pretty confident I can keep them true to avoid tire rub.

With tire wiggle, the clearance goes down to about 1 mm on one side. There's no room for wide fenders (still using my narrow-ish 700c fenders which cover the whole width of the 38 tire and a little bit more). 1mm clearance is too close for comfort, so I wouldn't want to go on a week long deep-in-the-woods-out-of-communication type of ride. I'm thinking about filing down the fork tangs to give me a skosh more room.

Just another data point.

Thank you. I took 584 divided by 2 to get the radius and added half the tire width. It came to it looks like my fork tang is going to be just above the fat part of the tire. If so, I the blades are 49 mm apart there. Even if I can only get 38mm AND fenders, I'll be happy.

[drewellison]

Thank you. I took 584 divided by 2 to get the radius and added half the tire width. It came to it looks like my fork tang is going to be just above the fat part of the tire. If so, I the blades are 49 mm apart there. Even if I can only get 38mm AND fenders, I'll be happy.

According to this blog ... http://www.bikeman.com/bikeman-blogs/650blog/1771-650b-conversion-guidlines

"The widest part of a 650x38B tire is located 320mm from the axle center".

If you've got 5.5mm on either side of the tire, that should give you enough room for wide fenders and a little tire wiggle, too. That sounds good to me. I wish I had that much room.

[559Rando]

Those are technically 650b, but are set up with 135mm spacing at the rear dropout and look like they might be disc-brake only. It might be better to refer to them at 27.5 wheels to distinguish them from 650b road wheels.

Like OP, I'm not familiar with any pre-built 650b road wheels with 130mm rear spacing and rims that are built for rim brakes. There used to be a seller on eBay who had some very cheap prebuilt 650b road wheels, but I haven't seen them for a couple of years.

If I were building up a custom frame today with the intention of riding 650b on the road, I might well go with 135mm spacing on the rear and disc brakes -- the mountain-style wheels are so much more prevalent than road-style.

I think the 27.5" name should go away ;-) But maybe the helps.

Pre-built/in-stock are available from Velo Orange, Rivendell and Soma/Merry pretty much all the time.

The eBay seller was "uglyrm" and still has some, I believe.

And/or try posting a Wanted ad here or on your local Craigslist, iBOB, etc.

[.RJ]

Those are technically 650b, but are set up with 135mm spacing at the rear dropout and look like they might be disc-brake only. It might be better to refer to them at 27.5 wheels to distinguish them from 650b road wheels.


Yep, that's probably smart. I'm looking at adding another frame in the house later this year, but it'll be disc brake so thats why I had those on my radar.