compact crank part II

[telenick]

I'm in the process of the parts pick for a new bike. I know I'm going to stay with campy. I used to run 53/39 - 12/25.

I'm considering 50/36 - 11/23 for every day. Can you help me answer some questions?

Does 50/36 require the compact front derailleur that the 50/34 requires?
I thought 13/29 required a long cage rear derailleur. Is that right?
What is the step up from short/med/long cage.
Is it 11/23 - 12/25 - 13/29 respectively?

Can the 36 ring be swapped with a 34 ring without changing anything other parts?

Thanks for your input.

[Dave]

I'm in the process of the parts pick for a new bike. I know I'm going to stay with campy. I used to run 53/39 - 12/25.

I'm considering 50/36 - 11/23 for every day. Can you help me answer some questions?

Does 50/36 require the compact front derailleur that the 50/34 requires?
I thought 13/29 required a long cage rear derailleur. Is that right?
What is the step up from short/med/long cage.
Is it 11/23 - 12/25 - 13/29 respectively?

Can the 36 ring be swapped with a 34 ring without changing anything other parts?

Thanks for your input.

I don't get the point in switching from a 53/39, 12-25 to a 50/36, 11-23. The top gear is a tiny bit more, but the low is the same.

Yes you should use a compact FD, that's why Campy offers one.

As for which RD to use, it's all about wrap capacity not cog size. Campy used to say that the short cage only had a 27T wrap, but now says it works with a 50/34 and 12-25 which is a 29T wrap. The medium cage has a 36T wrap and will handle anything except a triple with a 13-29. The long cage should have an additional 3T of wrap (39T) to handle the 13-29. The long cage could also be used with a little ring smaller than 30. I use the medium cage with a 53/39/28, 12-25. It exceeds the maximum wrap by 2T, but no one would use the 28/12 or 28/13, so it doesn't matter.

Yes, you can swap a 34 for the 36 with no other changes. The chain length difference would only be 1/2 inch and you can only shorten a chain 1 inch at a time.

[Serotta PETE]

I have the 50/34 with 25 or 29 and use the compact fd and mid. cage rear/

Works great and yes MIKE at CYCLESPORT installed and selected based on my requirements.

Yeah I know it is shameless advertising but I love those guys. Some of my friends from NC swear by them also (aka SPOKES, TOM, MACK)

[telenick]

I don't get the point in switching from a 53/39, 12-25 to a 50/36, 11-23. The top gear is a tiny bit more, but the low is the same. ...snip



Thank you for your response Dave.

I'm contemplating the switch because 50 - 11 or 53 - 12 is all I need for top speed. I ride mostly in the Central Rockies. So, I spin out pretty fast on descents. The 50/36 (with the option to replace the 36 with a 34) will give me more flexibility for climbing even steeper grades than the usual 5% - 10% that we have around here. All I'd need to do is swap out cassettes and/or the 36 with a 34. Keeping 53/39 rings and moving to the extreme of a 13/29 cassette buys less than the afore mentioned.

Like I said, I'm only contemplating. I've never needed more than 39 - 25 for local rides. But the lure of European adventures and their steeper grades (12% - 20%) are making me think of the simplest solution to takle those grades without the cost and of buying all the equipment for a triple conversion ...not to mention the hassle of swapping back and forth from triple to double.

Is my logic flawed?
How do you calculate wrap?

Thanks again

...just noticed... you're from the CO Front Range... even better.

[Dave]

As long as you're willing to give up two top gears, then a 34/29 will give you the same low gear as a 30T triple with 25 or 26. A 50/13 is about the same as a 53/14. I wouldn't want to lose that much top gear myself. I spend most of my descending time pedaling pretty hard in a 53/13 or 53/12. I can spin a 53/12 up to 48 mph, so I rarely spin out. I'm sure there are roads steep enough to get into the fifties, but I haven't done any yet.

Since nearly all my rides include the mountains and I don't race, I prefer the triple. I've been using a 53/39/28, with a 12-25 but changed back to a 30T little ring this year, since I seldom used the 28/25.

Wrap is just the chainring difference plus the cog difference. For a 50/34 with a 13-29, you get a wrap of 16 + 16 = 32, so you definitely need a medium cage.

[telenick]

Thanks Dave. I'm still contemplating ...but now armed with more data.

[Bradford]

I live in Dave's neighborhood, so my rides are not nearly as hilly as yours out in the mountains, but I’m with him about the triple. I had a triple on my last bike (as well as triples on my touring bike and tandem), but switched to a double since in came on my Legend. Now, after moving out to Colorado, I’m going to switch back to a triple. I just need to decide if I’m going to stick with 9 speed or move up to 10.

I’ve heard all the arguments against triples, but I don’t buy any of them. The only one that makes any sense to me is the wider Q, but as a bigger rider, I prefer the wider Q, it seems more natural to me. Considering I’ve been riding triples since the early 90’s, I’ve had plenty of experience, and I definitely prefer a triple over a double when the hills are significant. I just ride it as a double until I need a bail out, and then pop down to the small ring when I need it. For long climbs, it is great to be able to use the small ring. Now if I could only figure out to do about the lack of oxygen out here, I’d be all set.

Now for OT stuff:

Telenick ; I loved the picture of your wife you posted in my last thread. My wife wouldn’t let me take any pictures of her when she was pregnant, even though I told her how great she looked. I wanted to get one of us on the tandem when she was 7 months pregnant, but she wouldn’t budge.

Dave: What do you ride? I haven’t been out on the bike that much lately, but I’ll look for you on the road. I’ll either be on my Legend with matt decals or my red IF touring bike. Once my wife gets back on her feet, you might see us on the red Co-Motion tandem.

[ctric]

Upgraded to a compact Record Carbon crankset with the compact derailluer. I bought the 50/34 set but also picked up a 36 ring. When I switched to the 34 to the 36, I notliced small chips in the "anti friction coating" on the large ring.

Called Campy USA. They said the problem was parts compatibility. The 50/34 large ring is different from the 50/36 large ring (also different part numbers). Difference is the ramp position. I bought a new 50/34 large ring and have had no problems for about 800 miles.

I am not 100% sure if the coating was defective or if in fact there is a difference in the ramps. I should have compared the two large rings.

[Dave]

Dave: What do you ride? I haven’t been out on the bike that much lately, but I’ll look for you on the road. I’ll either be on my Legend with matt decals or my red IF touring bike. Once my wife gets back on her feet, you might see us on the red Co-Motion tandem.[/QUOTE]


I've got two LOOK frames, a red/black 461 (Jalabert edition) and a new 585 in the red/red special edition color. Can't say eough good things about the 585.

Most of my rides are up Deer Creek Canyon Road, toward Conifer. Occasionally I'll drive to Evergreen and ride Squaw Pass or start in Idaho Springs and ride Mt Evans. I may try Evans next week. The race up Evans is next Saturday, but I won't be there.

[Dave]

What I see in my future is 53/39/30 with the 13-29, unless they come out with an 11 cog setup in the next few years. I'll give up the 53/12 top gear, but have even more low gear in the little ring. If I'm not in the mountains, my gearing will be a 13-26 (9 speed), using only the 53/39. A turn of the FD's limit screw can lock out access to the little ring. With a triple, the middle ring and largest cog is usually off limits due to the extreme chainline. The exception might be with bikes having pretty long chainstays (41.5-42cm or longer). Many triple users don't realize that the middle ring on a triple is located nearly as far to the right as the big ring on a double. Others just ignore this fact an ride a chainline that's essentially the same as the big ring and largest cog on a double. I may slip into this chainline briefly, but only on rare occastions.

Right now, I'm essentially running a 12-23 (9 speed) when I'm out of the mountains. Even at 53 years old, it's usually enough low gear for hills. The only time I use the little ring out of the mountains is during the last couple of miles as I approach my home. By that time, I'm tired and sometimes just crawl up the last hills near my house.

I guess my point is that is you can get by with a 39/23 as your low gear out of the mountains, the triple is a simple solution to avoiding the chainring change.

[bob the nailer]

I have a campy record compact 50/34 with 11-23 cassette for riding at home(oklahoma). when i go to mountains(i e triple bypass) i switch the cassette to 12-25, easier than changing the front ring i think. love it both ways.

[Serotta PETE]

What I see in my future is 53/39/30 with the 13-29, unless they come out with an 11 cog setup in the next few years. I'll give up the 53/12 top gear, but have even more low gear in the little ring. If I'm not in the mountains, my gearing will be a 13-26 (9 speed), using only the 53/39. A turn of the FD's limit screw can lock out access to the little ring. With a triple, the middle ring and largest cog is usually off limits due to the extreme chainline. The exception might be with bikes having pretty long chainstays (41.5-42cm or longer). Many triple users don't realize that the middle ring on a triple is located nearly as far to the right as the big ring on a double. Others just ignore this fact an ride a chainline that's essentially the same as the big ring and largest cog on a double. I may slip into this chainline briefly, but only on rare occastions.

Right now, I'm essentially running a 12-23 (9 speed) when I'm out of the mountains. Even at 53 years old, it's usually enough low gear for hills. The only time I use the little ring out of the mountains is during the last couple of miles as I approach my home. By that time, I'm tired and sometimes just crawl up the last hills near my house.

I guess my point is that is you can get by with a 39/23 as your low gear out of the mountains, the triple is a simple solution to avoiding the chainring change.

I have a triple and really like it. Around here I use the double (outer 2 rings) and in western part of the state the inner (3rd) ring is great. As to weight disadvantage, I just drink my bottle of red instead of carry it in pack....

:beer: Then it equals out. Mr Flydhest taught me this. :beer:

[Climb01742]

I've got two LOOK frames, a red/black 461 (Jalabert edition) and a new 585 in the red/red special edition color. Can't say eough good things about the 585.

dave, i'd be curious about your impressions of the 585. thanks!

[Dave]

I really like it, although the 461/555 geometry is is a tad shorter in reach (5mm) and better suits my short torso. I decided to use one size shorter stem on the 585 and move the saddle back a bit, compared to my 461. Climbs great and descends as well as anything I've ridden. My first impression was that it has bit stiffer ride, but after logging about 1000 miles on it, I don't find it objectionable. I ride stiff Ksyrium wheels and only weigh 135, so a too-stiff frame is something I watch out for. The finish on the special edtion red/red model is one of the best I've seen.

A sold a Cervelo R3 due to it's overly stiff ride, too short chainstays, too little steering trail and too short front-center. Other than climbing well, there wasn't a thing I liked about that frame.

[TriJim]

FWIW --
I'm running an FSA 50/34 with a "normal" DA front derailleur. Rarely will drop the chain on downshifts -- maybe twice a year. 12/27 on the rear.
34/27 and 60-70 rpm provides a comfortable 5-6 mph for long climbs -- in France last week or a 13% near Heidelberg earlier today. YMMV. Good Luck. :beer:

[Marcusaurelius]

I'm in the process of the parts pick for a new bike. I know I'm going to stay with campy. I used to run 53/39 - 12/25.

I'm considering 50/36 - 11/23 for every day. Can you help me answer some questions?

Does 50/36 require the compact front derailleur that the 50/34 requires?
I thought 13/29 required a long cage rear derailleur. Is that right?
What is the step up from short/med/long cage.
Is it 11/23 - 12/25 - 13/29 respectively?

Can the 36 ring be swapped with a 34 ring without changing anything other parts?

Thanks for your input.


50/36 chainrings work great the a standard front derailleur. The crank shifts the same as 53/39 combination. You would use the 13/29 with a medium cage with a double crank, the long cage derailleur is for a triple crank with a 13-29 cassette.

[bob the nailer]

Glad to hear you say that about the 585 dave. i originally wanted a 585, then switched to the R3, then switched back when the waiting time for the r3 was too long. My 585 is carbon black, rides like a dream, climbs like a scared rabbit.