The value of isolated leg training

[stephenmarklay]

What is your take?

[shovelhd]

My take is you overthink things too much.

There is value in certain situations, like leg imbalance, and if you are a track sprinter. Otherwise don't overthink training. It's pretty simple.

[Climb01742]

Single leg (and single arm, for that matter) are always useful. For imbalances. To activate core. And to decrease recruitment of other muscles to help the working leg/arm. A good case can be made to do as many single leg/arm exercises as possible.

[Peter P.]

I think the volume of work you would have to do to eliminate any left/right imbalances is way beyond what most cyclists could tolerate.

The only exception I could think of would be if it were necessary for rehabilitation.

[berserk87]

I think the volume of work you would have to do to eliminate any left/right imbalances is way beyond what most cyclists could tolerate.

The only exception I could think of would be if it were necessary for rehabilitation.

I was thinking the same thing. You would have to overload the weak leg by a significant amount (of volume) over the stronger leg. How much one-legged work can one really stand on the bike?

[SoCalSteve]

I think the volume of work you would have to do to eliminate any left/right imbalances is way beyond what most cyclists could tolerate.

The only exception I could think of would be if it were necessary for rehabilitation.

After my knee replacement surger( ( right knee ), part of my rehab was to get on a leg press machine and do right leg presses. Lots of right leg presses.

[MattTuck]

Cycling, perhaps more than most other sports, has a terrible feedback loop when it comes to a weak side. The automatic response from the body is to make up for the discrepancy with the stronger leg, and the result of this is that the stronger leg gets stronger and stronger. If you find yourself in this cycle, I'd say the only solution is isolated leg work (both single leg pedaling drills and PT type strength training), combined with extreme mindfulness of your pedal stroke.

The issue isn't so much that you're going to strengthen your weak leg up to the level of the strong leg by doing single leg squats, or something like that. But you can strengthen it enough so that it has a chance to last well into a ride before fatiguing. And if you can do that, and focus on the pedal stroke, it's going to be a net positive.

If you don't have an imbalance, I still think that isolated leg work can have its place, for getting good core activation, developing supporting musculature, and getting muscles to fail (fatigue) in ways that may not be observable when doing regular two legged exercises.

[stephenmarklay]

My take is you overthink things too much.

There is value in certain situations, like leg imbalance, and if you are a track sprinter. Otherwise don't overthink training. It's pretty simple.

I only ask as I am embarking on a trainer road program has days where single leg or single leg emphasis is part of the training. I have never really trained with one leg (enough to see a benefit) and wondered if this is really time well spent.

Yes I am guilty, I like to think.

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks you guys. I had never really thought of single leg training as anything more that a way to learn to have a smoother stroke.

You guys bring up some very good points that make me think that some SLT has value. If nothing more to evaluate of one side is underperforming.

Off the bike I have certainly done a lot of SLT for balance and saw some great benefit in building up the supporting muscles in my hip. This made my everyday movement way better.


Thanks again Paceliners.

[11.4]

Just saw this thread so I hope I'm not late in commenting.

Single leg training in the weight room has a lot of value. People think of cycling as a sport that employs both legs equally, but it actually is a sport where you use the left leg, then the right leg, then the left leg, ad infinitum. You're basically only as good as what one leg can do. Now that's simplifying matters a bit, because you do get to brace and support yourself with your saddle and both arms, plus you have the dynamics of a circular pedal stroke to consider. However, single leg weight room training can be very useful and not just to equalize leg strength. Few people really have equal individual leg strength, and even fewer after sixty miles of riding. You can watch major pros climbing steep col finishes in the various tours and see how they are off to one side consistently, favoring one leg over the other for power.

If you're talking about one-legged spinning or turbo workouts, it's a bit different. You can get some benefit there, but the dynamics of a pedal stroke are pretty complex and just taking one leg out of the equation unbalances a lot of what creates power on the other leg. You don't train one leg in isolation the same way you train it when it has a cooperative relationship with the other leg. I've worked with a lot of riders using Powercranks, one-legged fixed-gear drills, one-legged turbo drills, and so on, and because we always measure before and after performance and we isolate changes in training so we can identify what works or not, we never have seen a significant improvement for a rider from doing on-the-bike single-leg drills of any kind. That's about 60 elite level riders that we tried (and keep trying occasionally) to see if there's a way to make it work. We simply came to the realization that the two legs can benefit from strength improvement individually in the weight room, but on the bike they adopt this cooperative action that simply doesn't benefit (or even suffers) from single-leg or isolation drills.

[regularguy412]

Jsnipped--
If you're talking about one-legged spinning or turbo workouts, it's a bit different. You can get some benefit there, but the dynamics of a pedal stroke are pretty complex and just taking one leg out of the equation unbalances a lot of what creates power on the other leg. You don't train one leg in isolation the same way you train it when it has a cooperative relationship with the other leg. I've worked with a lot of riders using Powercranks, one-legged fixed-gear drills, one-legged turbo drills, and so on, and because we always measure before and after performance and we isolate changes in training so we can identify what works or not, we never have seen a significant improvement for a rider from doing on-the-bike single-leg drills of any kind. That's about 60 elite level riders that we tried (and keep trying occasionally) to see if there's a way to make it work. We simply came to the realization that the two legs can benefit from strength improvement individually in the weight room, but on the bike they adopt this cooperative action that simply doesn't benefit (or even suffers) from single-leg or isolation drills.

It's good to know that at least some testing of this theory confirms the conclusion I came to myself. I've tried (several times over the years) to do some specific one-leg drills on the trainer during the off-season. TBH, this training just felt, well,,, kinda 'weird'. I finally gave up on it; thinking the weirdness was due to my position on the bike. I like to have a fairly 'back' position -- like K(not)OPS at 3 o'clock,, but more like 3-4 cm behind the pedal spindle. This position just seems more natural to me and, I think, helps save my knees. (not gettin' any younger). You'd think that this position would sort of assist in getting one pedal over the top easier, but it just didn't seem that way to me.

I also like to try to keep my foot sort of flat when coming over the top of the stroke and the let my heel drop a little as I get through the power phase (1-5 o'clock). I'm not sure this method really contributes to a successfully more 'round' stroke. Yep. I'm more of a masher -- especially when climbing.

Mike in AR:beer:

[ericssonboi]

If you're talking about one-legged spinning or turbo workouts, it's a bit different. You can get some benefit there, but the dynamics of a pedal stroke are pretty complex and just taking one leg out of the equation unbalances a lot of what creates power on the other leg. You don't train one leg in isolation the same way you train it when it has a cooperative relationship with the other leg. I've worked with a lot of riders using Powercranks, one-legged fixed-gear drills, one-legged turbo drills, and so on, and because we always measure before and after performance and we isolate changes in training so we can identify what works or not, we never have seen a significant improvement for a rider from doing on-the-bike single-leg drills of any kind. That's about 60 elite level riders that we tried (and keep trying occasionally) to see if there's a way to make it work. We simply came to the realization that the two legs can benefit from strength improvement individually in the weight room, but on the bike they adopt this cooperative action that simply doesn't benefit (or even suffers) from single-leg or isolation drills.

11.4, are you saying based on your experience with the workout and training sessions with the powercranks, you didn't see significant increase in performance and power gains? In other words, is power cranks not as effective as it makes it out to be?

I have friends who have used it and swear by so I'm curious to see your input and analysis

[wallymann]

11.4, are you saying based on your experience with the workout and training sessions with the powercranks, you didn't see significant increase in performance and power gains? In other words, is power cranks not as effective as it makes it out to be?

I have friends who have used it and swear by so I'm curious to see your input and analysis

i used power-cranks when rehabbing from spinal disc surgery and nerve-root damage that affected my left leg's function.

for that sort of rehab work, power-cranks were great to get my legs working equally. i also picked up a stronger, more active pull up and push over the top on both sides which felt great when doing seated accelerations -- i felt like superman for those few initial pedal-strokes, like i could tear the BB spindle in half.

but i think the powercrank-induced change was excessive -- the amount of pull-up i developed was so great i was having comfort issues due to excessive sit-bone/perineal pressure! once i felt my pedalstroke has evened out, i deemed my rehab complete and sold them -- and the excessive pressure issues went away.

beyond a certain point, leg strength or a stronger pull-up will not make you a stronger cyclist. once you have established a smooth pedal-stroke, true improvements in cycling ability are based on ability to carry O2 to the legs and remove CO2 from the body and process more lactic acid. heart and lungs and cardio -- powercranks do nothing for those.

[11.4]

11.4, are you saying based on your experience with the workout and training sessions with the powercranks, you didn't see significant increase in performance and power gains? In other words, is power cranks not as effective as it makes it out to be?

I have friends who have used it and swear by so I'm curious to see your input and analysis

We had a set of adjustable length Powercranks and used them with a total of 22 riders, working with two different coaches and two different fitters. Everyone who used them noted how weak they felt their pedal stroke was when they started, and felt that their pedaling strength had improved after only a week or so on the cranks. However, when we measured performance by ergo output and by measures such as time trial performances and track performance, we didn't find a statistically significant improvement. We did have riders who improved by, say, 4.6%, which is a meaningful improvement if one is talking about wattage, but there were as many other riders who actually deteriorated by that much. And the riders who improved on them didn't show the same improvement when they used the Powercranks next year -- in short, with limited testing it appears that you can get better or worse or stay the same and you don't necessarily have any control over how well they do for you.

We were particularly interested in seeing how they worked at different crank arm lengths (since you could change the pedal position to create a wide range of crank arm lengths). We saw no pattern of benefit (again, remember this isn't a huge sample, but it's a lot better than anecdotal data from single riders or the very limited results that Powercranks cites) for any crank length for any particular rider. This surprised us, actually, but was quite consistent.

The whole ankling thing was an artificial concept back in the 1950s and before and based on the riders that coaches thought could look elegant on the bike (if you've seen the movie, Moneyball, it's the same thing described there in baseball). When teams started becoming slightly analytic, they discovered that there was no particular significance or benefit for any particular pedal stroke to a particular rider. Some riders did have pedal stroke problems that needed to be fixed, but it wasn't a case that everyone needed a circular stroke or a raised heel or whatever else. And extensive internal testing, especially in the last few years on British pro road riders, has shown that they don't benefit from alteration of the pedal strokes that they've already developed. All of this tends to minimize the value of on-the-bike isolated leg training. Virtually every group and rider has concurred that off-the-bike isolated leg weight training has been beneficial. That's not been published but is the result of internal experimentation with multiple coaches, trainers, and kinesiologists on elite pro riders, both established pros and new prospects that were being screened for potential continental or farm team status.

Hope that helps.

[MattTuck]

A lot of good points here.

I think the first question is whether there is a pathology related to either leg strength balance or pedal stroke. As others have said, once you get to a certain level of strength, you cannot further strengthen your way to a KOM on a 45 minute climb.

There is an additional level to this debate, which I'll refer to as the "within normal limits" vs. "in extremis" conditions of cycling.

In extremis, the parts of the overall system that are weakest fail, and you have a cascade of failures as your body tries to adapt, and then the new weakest point fatigues and eventually fails. So even if you have a good pedal stroke when you're fresh, 2 or 3 hours into a hard ride, real deficiencies may become apparent.

[macaroon]

Pointless exercise. You cycle with two feet on the pedals, not one. Take one foot off the pedal and that alters everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception

[wasfast]

No strong opinion on the isolated leg training. I wondered about any difference when power meters came out with independent L/R power measurements. I'd be surprised if a regular, normal rider( not recovering from an injury) would have any significant difference between legs. Further if you do, would one legged drills really change that on the bike when riding?

[SoCalSteve]

No strong opinion on the isolated leg training. I wondered about any difference when power meters came out with independent L/R power measurements. I'd be surprised if a regular, normal rider( not recovering from an injury) would have any significant difference between legs. Further if you do, would one legged drills really change that on the bike when riding?

I've asked myself this question many times after my knee injury and replacement.

I have a set of Powertap P1 pedals that show the balance of left and right power. Since I am still rehabbing my knee and it's not even close to being 100% yet, I come up with anywhere between 52/53 ( left ) to 48/47% ( right ) power discrepancies between my injured ( right ) and non ( left ).

Should it be 50 to 50 in a perfect world?

Thanks!

[stephenmarklay]

Just saw this thread so I hope I'm not late in commenting.

Single leg training in the weight room has a lot of value. People think of cycling as a sport that employs both legs equally, but it actually is a sport where you use the left leg, then the right leg, then the left leg, ad infinitum. You're basically only as good as what one leg can do. Now that's simplifying matters a bit, because you do get to brace and support yourself with your saddle and both arms, plus you have the dynamics of a circular pedal stroke to consider. However, single leg weight room training can be very useful and not just to equalize leg strength. Few people really have equal individual leg strength, and even fewer after sixty miles of riding. You can watch major pros climbing steep col finishes in the various tours and see how they are off to one side consistently, favoring one leg over the other for power.

If you're talking about one-legged spinning or turbo workouts, it's a bit different. You can get some benefit there, but the dynamics of a pedal stroke are pretty complex and just taking one leg out of the equation unbalances a lot of what creates power on the other leg. You don't train one leg in isolation the same way you train it when it has a cooperative relationship with the other leg. I've worked with a lot of riders using Powercranks, one-legged fixed-gear drills, one-legged turbo drills, and so on, and because we always measure before and after performance and we isolate changes in training so we can identify what works or not, we never have seen a significant improvement for a rider from doing on-the-bike single-leg drills of any kind. That's about 60 elite level riders that we tried (and keep trying occasionally) to see if there's a way to make it work. We simply came to the realization that the two legs can benefit from strength improvement individually in the weight room, but on the bike they adopt this cooperative action that simply doesn't benefit (or even suffers) from single-leg or isolation drills.


Thanks so much. That was my gut feeling on it. I think I will just do spin ups and search for a better pedal stroke with both legs on the trainer.

[Ti Designs]

Single leg training in the weight room has a lot of value....

If you're talking about one-legged spinning or turbo workouts, it's a bit different...


So which one does this count as?

I've done a lot of work in the weight room, I've also noticed that there was a long adaptation time from my strength training 'til I could use that on the bike. Since then I've spent some time adapting the strength training to the direction of force and range of motion used on the bike. The machine I had a hard time with was the leg extension machine 'cause the pivot is aligned with the knee, while on the bike the pivot is the bottom bracket - it's not the same motion.

As power is the sum of all the force vectors around the pedal stroke * cadence, it makes sense to see where and how the force vectors are generated. Unlike a trainer, at any given point in the pedal stroke that machine requires force to move the pedal forward - there's no system of inertia, but there is a constant load. To move the pedal at any point requires force in the right direction. Limiting the range of motion allows me to isolate one large muscle group along with the supporting or stabilizing muscles.

[11.4]

I've asked myself this question many times after my knee injury and replacement.

I have a set of Powertap P1 pedals that show the balance of left and right power. Since I am still rehabbing my knee and it's not even close to being 100% yet, I come up with anywhere between 52/53 ( left ) to 48/47% ( right ) power discrepancies between my injured ( right ) and non ( left ).

Should it be 50 to 50 in a perfect world?

Thanks!

Should it be 50/50? There's no particular reason it should be symmetric because the whole rest of one's body is rarely if ever symmetric. Anything in torso strength, hip alignment, any past injuries, spurs, scarring, adhesions, or whatever, can all cause imbalances. The power distribution is an outcome, not a goal. Think of it as what you have if you have dealt with all the historical adaptations your body has gone through due to injury or whatever, and if it happens to be 50/50, that's at best just the mean of a pretty wide distribution. Now if your balance is 20/80, I'd say it's different. But if you are even 40/60, I'd be happy with it and optimize output without trying to jimmy with that balance because you are trying to change one reading and not the actual power you put out. Make sense?

[stephenmarklay]

So which one does this count as?

I've done a lot of work in the weight room, I've also noticed that there was a long adaptation time from my strength training 'til I could use that on the bike. Since then I've spent some time adapting the strength training to the direction of force and range of motion used on the bike. The machine I had a hard time with was the leg extension machine 'cause the pivot is aligned with the knee, while on the bike the pivot is the bottom bracket - it's not the same motion.

As power is the sum of all the force vectors around the pedal stroke * cadence, it makes sense to see where and how the force vectors are generated. Unlike a trainer, at any given point in the pedal stroke that machine requires force to move the pedal forward - there's no system of inertia, but there is a constant load. To move the pedal at any point requires force in the right direction. Limiting the range of motion allows me to isolate one large muscle group along with the supporting or stabilizing muscles.


Cool. I have used my Spin bike with a ton for tension to do sets like am squatting. No good way to quantify it like you can. I still do it a bit actually.

[ericssonboi]

Thanks for the valuable feedback 11.4 and others within the thread :hello:

[Ti Designs]

I have used my Spin bike with a ton for tension to do sets like am squatting. No good way to quantify it like you can. I still do it a bit actually.

One of the issues I have with teaching pedal stroke goes directly to your original question, what is the value of isolated leg training. Like any other type of training, the value is tied to how well it's done - practice only makes perfect if you practice perfectly. That machine pointed that out very clearly.

When I first got on the machine I found I couldn't move the pedal over the top smoothly with a heavy load. It wasn't a lack of strength, it felt more like my body couldn't generate force in the right direction. I tested a few other cyclists and they all showed the same thing. It turns out to be a reciprocal inhibition (your body's refusal to fire opposing muscle groups) between the vastus lateralis and the rectus femoris. The vastus lateralis is the large quad muscle which supplies the force, the rectus femoris is a hip flexor which allows you to move your foot forward. The problem is they both use the patella as a leverage point, so they don't both fire at the same time. What I found using the machine is that I could generate the upward component of the force vector or I could generate the forward component of the force vector, but not both at the same time. Getting the pedal stroke right meant switching hip flexors from the rectus femoris to the iliopsoas.

The first step in learning how to do something is understanding the components. The rectus femoris has an attachment point at the patella, so you can feel the tension by placing your fingers just above your kneecap while lifting your foot in front of you. The iliopsoas is a pair of muscles that lift the femur, you can activate them by letting your foot hang while lifting your knee. It's the difference between lifting from the foot or lifting from the knee. The problem is most cyclists understand pedaling as generating force at the pedal. Since I don't have a fleet of those machines, the best I can do in teaching pedal stroke is to isolate the movement by having having clients use ankle weights to learn how to activate the iliopsoas, then use that within the one leg pedal stroke drills.

[11.4]

One of the issues I have with teaching pedal stroke goes directly to your original question, what is the value of isolated leg training. Like any other type of training, the value is tied to how well it's done - practice only makes perfect if you practice perfectly. That machine pointed that out very clearly.

When I first got on the machine I found I couldn't move the pedal over the top smoothly with a heavy load. It wasn't a lack of strength, it felt more like my body couldn't generate force in the right direction. I tested a few other cyclists and they all showed the same thing. It turns out to be a reciprocal inhibition (your body's refusal to fire opposing muscle groups) between the vastus lateralis and the rectus femoris. The vastus lateralis is the large quad muscle which supplies the force, the rectus femoris is a hip flexor which allows you to move your foot forward. The problem is they both use the patella as a leverage point, so they don't both fire at the same time. What I found using the machine is that I could generate the upward component of the force vector or I could generate the forward component of the force vector, but not both at the same time. Getting the pedal stroke right meant switching hip flexors from the rectus femoris to the iliopsoas.

The first step in learning how to do something is understanding the components. The rectus femoris has an attachment point at the patella, so you can feel the tension by placing your fingers just above your kneecap while lifting your foot in front of you. The iliopsoas is a pair of muscles that lift the femur, you can activate them by letting your foot hang while lifting your knee. It's the difference between lifting from the foot or lifting from the knee. The problem is most cyclists understand pedaling as generating force at the pedal. Since I don't have a fleet of those machines, the best I can do in teaching pedal stroke is to isolate the movement by having having clients use ankle weights to learn how to activate the iliopsoas, then use that within the one leg pedal stroke drills.

However, the psoas major can't deliver anywhere near the same force, and because it's the primary contributor in the illiopsoas complex, and because it attaches to the lumbar spine, it's also a primary contributor to low back pain and to feedback inhibition related to spinal instability (aka core fitness). This is a nice theoretical solution and might work for some road riders not performing at very high wattages, but it probably won't solve the problem if you're trying to put out high watts. This approach forces you out of the saddle more (which changes the whole geometry of the hip flexor system), which doesn't solve the problem for high power in-the-saddle riding.

Part of the issue here lies in trying to solve a problem that, after a fashion, doesn't really exist. It's theoretically true that you can bring the foot over the top of the pedal stroke and thereby reduce the resistance it would otherwise create for the other leg, but that's just the system. Everyone basically has the same curse and it's the basic aspect of trying to fit a circular operating path to a human limb that's not really designed for a circular operating path. I race large offshore sailboats a lot and can tell you that every grinder I have working on a big racing winch has exactly the same problem with their upper extremities. You want a stroke like a speedskater has, but your foot is locked into a pedal that is taking it on a journey your foot fundamentally doesn't want. Ever seen those bikes that have a design more like a stair stepper? Outlawed by the UCI, right? They can manage more power in the hands of a pro rider than your basic crank arms ever can. The point is ... you can't eliminate an intrinsic limitation of the design of the bike. I'd think more about fixing the bike than fixing the pedal stroke, because the problem lies with how the bike is designed and how it fails to match up to the power generation profile of your legs.

Try doing some heavy deadlifts, where you are using your hips and not your quads or your lower back to do the lift, and you'll see part of the solution. To apply heavy power you want to be able to shift your hips forward during the pedal stroke so you change the angle of attack on the pedals. It makes it easier to drag your pedal over the top of the crank arm rotation and increases the arc over which you generate meaningful power. Until you can move your hips back and forth with each pedal stroke (half stroke, actually, because you have to reposition for each leg) you can't use your power effectively. If you can't move your hips, your alternate solution is to build much more power in the legs. After all, much of the shortcoming we're discussing here comes about because we're trying to pedal with woefully inadequate leg strength (and I'm saying this about a word championship sprinter as much as someone posting on the "how old are you" thread in this forum right now). So your two choices: work on increasing power significantly, or be prepared to pedal more out of the saddle so you can adjust your hip position as you ride.

TiDesign's premise that you have to be able to break a movement down into separate components is good for understanding movements but not for building strength or speed. It isolates individual actions without accounting for the interactions among different actions at play in the lower extremities.

[unterhausen]

I think it's a really useful skill. For example, I hyper-extended my knee on a 400k brevet, and with 20 miles to go I couldn't push with my right leg at all. I got off the bike and started walking when I realized I only need one leg to ride, so that's how I finished. Only bad thing is that the saddle sores on my left side were a thing to behold. It's also useful if your NDS crank arm falls off, but let's not talk about that.

As far as actual ability to ride a bike faster, symmetry seems like a good thing. Are one legged drills the one true path to symmetry? I'll never find out.

[11.4]

I think it's a really useful skill. For example, I hyper-extended my knee on a 400k brevet, and with 20 miles to go I couldn't push with my right leg at all. I got off the bike and started walking when I realized I only need one leg to ride, so that's how I finished. Only bad thing is that the saddle sores on my left side were a thing to behold. It's also useful if your NDS crank arm falls off, but let's not talk about that.

As far as actual ability to ride a bike faster, symmetry seems like a good thing. Are one legged drills the one true path to symmetry? I'll never find out.

Then there was the case of the dog attack outside Austin, Texas. The big gangly dog chewed off most of my left calf. Bits of bone and shreds of flesh remaining. But I had the other leg and was able, one-legged, to complete the full ride and stay with my riding companions. Woot woot.

[11.4]

I think it's a really useful skill. For example, I hyper-extended my knee on a 400k brevet, and with 20 miles to go I couldn't push with my right leg at all. I got off the bike and started walking when I realized I only need one leg to ride, so that's how I finished. Only bad thing is that the saddle sores on my left side were a thing to behold. It's also useful if your NDS crank arm falls off, but let's not talk about that.

As far as actual ability to ride a bike faster, symmetry seems like a good thing. Are one legged drills the one true path to symmetry? I'll never find out.

Well, let's get real here. You really need a solution to the drive side crank. What kind of prepper are you, anyway? Ride the top tube and kick your way home? You haven't begun to talk about saddle sores yet.

But you are slowly finding enlightenment, grasshopper. Get off the bike, as you did, start doing pistol squats on the good leg (pistol squats fix everything, in case you haven't gathered by now), and pretty soon you'll leap back into your saddle and you'll be able to crank the big ring and your 11 on one leg all the way back into town.

[wasfast]

Should it be 50/50? There's no particular reason it should be symmetric because the whole rest of one's body is rarely if ever symmetric. Anything in torso strength, hip alignment, any past injuries, spurs, scarring, adhesions, or whatever, can all cause imbalances. The power distribution is an outcome, not a goal. Think of it as what you have if you have dealt with all the historical adaptations your body has gone through due to injury or whatever, and if it happens to be 50/50, that's at best just the mean of a pretty wide distribution. Now if your balance is 20/80, I'd say it's different. But if you are even 40/60, I'd be happy with it and optimize output without trying to jimmy with that balance because you are trying to change one reading and not the actual power you put out. Make sense?

I asked myself the same question relative to the L/R power (force) measurement when it became available. The numbers I've heard some guys quote is usually very close but not quite to 50/50. More like 48/52. Optimizing that feels like a diminishing returns exercise. The real world benefit seems very small, if any.

[unterhausen]

Then there was the case of the dog attack outside Austin, Texas. The big gangly dog chewed off most of my left calf. Bits of bone and shreds of flesh remaining. But I had the other leg and was able, one-legged, to complete the full ride and stay with my riding companions. Woot woot.

if they were really your friends, they would have dropped you. I find that misery doesn't love company. The funny thing about my one-legged brevet is that I didn't finish last. A rider fell asleep behind a gas station and came in an hour behind me. Ruined my perfect record of being DFL on all the rides in that series that year. I once knew a cyclist that only had one working leg. He rode across the U.S., so riding 20 miles one-legged is not exactly a distance record.

[stephenmarklay]

It is funny that I posted this and now I think possibley we are just a bit too pedantic about the topic.

To this guy there is value. It is everything actually. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30295759

[JStonebarger]

Arnie Baker used to make a different argument for heavier, 60 rpm ILTs -- that by exercising one leg at a time you can exhaust the leg muscles without cardio being a limiting factor. I don't know if I believe that or not, but 60 rpm in a moderately heavy gear is definitely a workout.

[stephenmarklay]

Arnie Baker used to make a different argument for heavier, 60 rpm ILTs -- that by exercising one leg at a time you can exhaust the leg muscles without cardio being a limiting factor. I don't know if I believe that or not, but 60 rpm in a moderately heavy gear is definitely a workout.

I like to do low RPM 40-50 with both legs. Not to exhaustion but to focus on smoothness.

[11.4]

Interesting observations. A couple years ago we were working with a lower extremity amputee (mid thigh). Otherwise a very fit athlete. For him, all workouts were one-legged and this whole isolated leg training issue was very relevant to him. He tried the Powercranks but didn't benefit from them. I put him on both road and track bikes to see how he did when the bike motion pushed his foot over the top of the pedal stroke. He turned out to be a superb para-triathlete and responded extremely well to an extensive weights program, both for time trials and on the track. Building strength was the key to his performance -- he basically didn't have enough real strength when he started.

Now if you look at Froome going up a mountainside, he's turning any gear at a cadence that anyone on here probably couldn't match, even for the time it would take one to go anaerobic. I've watched him get on a bike on a steep incline and simply pedal away. So he's dealing with a basic level of strength (power, if you will) that lets him do things with his legs that the rest of us can't. Our answer, for our own instances, is probably to build strength. And even if we don't match the strength improvements at 11 o'clock that we have at 3 o'clock, we're still going to be able to move the pedals through without causing an actual detriment to our speed. Does that make sense? It certainly did for this para-cyclist.

[regularguy412]

I like to do low RPM 40-50 with both legs. Not to exhaustion but to focus on smoothness.

I just recently started doing this again -- one session per week -- about 5 miles worth as part of a longer 20-30 mile ride --in the 53 x 12 or 13. Up minor inclines, seated, and focusing on power as much as I can all around the pedal stroke. I've only done two of these sessions now and I can already feel a difference when cruising on the flats or wanting to close a gap.

Mike in AR:beer: