Richard Sachs Article

[2LeftCleats]

Just read the interview with RS in Bicycling magazine. I know he tends to be a polarizing individual in this forum, but he comes across atmo as dedicated to perfecting his art. The interviewer is a bit farther from perfection.

[Elefantino]

I've never understood why he is viewed as "polarizing."

The man is a master craftsman. Would that we all could be as such.

[Schmed]

Just read the interview with RS in Bicycling magazine. I know he tends to be a polarizing individual in this forum, but he comes across atmo as dedicated to perfecting his art. The interviewer is a bit farther from perfection.

I just read the article tonight.....

> Yes - the interviewer came across as a bit odd. Maybe even a fan-boy.
> Makes me really want to try one of his bikes, but I know nothing about custom bikes or why his are so expensive and worth the very long wait
> It's probably a good lesson for kids - if you truly want to do something, and are willing to sacrifice and take risks, you can do it!
> The other articles about small craftsman building unique (and expensive) bells, hats, seats, make me daydream about doing something like that myself. If I only had some skills....

[weisan]

In the world of cycling and bikes fanatics, framebuilders are treated almost like "celebrities and politicians" - put under the spotlight and public scrutiny. I don't think that's fair but I don't get to define the "rules." I suspect if we apply the same "standards" and expectations we impose on them to ourselves, most of us will wither and die on the spot or at least cringe and get disgusted. As a personal appeal to my pals, please relax a bit and treat our framebuilder friends with the same dignity and respect as you would like to be treated. In the same token, resist from putting them on the pedestal, they are just like us, hit them and they feel pain, kiss them and they feel loved.

[Ken Robb]

I didn't read the article. RS is really good at what he does. He knows it. If you don't know it he thinks that's your problem. He has more orders than he can fill so he doesn't have to, in his opinion, suffer fools gladly. I have ridden borrowed RS bikes twice and they rode wonderfully and looked beautiful with his classice red/white paint by JB. By the time I knew how good his bikes were aI was too old to get to the end of his wait-list.

You MAY be able to get a bike as good elsewhere but you won't find a better bike. We both like small dogs with big personalities and our wives are smarter and more capable than we are so I think we understand each other a little bit.

[Peter P.]

I read the article. I guess I need someone to translate it for me.

[mcteague]

I read the article. I guess I need someone to translate it for me.

Yeah. I view frame building as more of a learned skill than some form of Zen artistry. I think I would rather read an interview with Dave Kirk or Tom Kellogg. RS does appear a bit too "out there" for me, but maybe that is his brand.

Tim

[dancinkozmo]

I read the article. I guess I need someone to translate it for me.

haha !

[mike mcdermid]

I actually like the guy, some of his views are bang on point

[Tony T]

The interview was horrendous.
(I'm not referring to the rs answers, I'm referring to the way bm edited the interview)

[572cv]

I value tremendously the individuals who follow their passion, their muse, and create or innovate in ways that delight or challenge the rest of us. They are the leading edge in a way, and it is not a smooth edge. It can be jagged, and unsettling, but can lead to amazing things or just inspiration.

The set of interviews in Bicycling, as a whole, was a great reach by the magazine in a way. While readers can easily find flaws with the pieces, as pieces of a whole they remind the readership of the creative niches in this wonderful sport. I thought that one of the quotes from the interview of Ellie Lum captured an aspect of this which is significant:

" We spend most of our lives seeing things only in their finished state. But so much happens in between. I want to help people see the full picture of how a product gets made" - Ellie Lum

I have this notion that the presence of and opportunity for 'makers' in our country is at the heart of what has given pride and strength to the democracy. My hat is off to all the makers in these Bicycling profiles, and to our pal e-richie, chapeau!

[redir]

Is that in the latest one? I think I saw it in my mail box but I usually treat that mag as spam.

[Tony T]

yes, the one with 2017 best new bikes on the cover.

[hoonjr]

What I love about Richard Sachs is that I don't think he's compromised anything despite reaching the pinnacle of his profession. I'd bet he spends the same amount of time hand filing his custom lugs for each and every bike he's ever built and will build. I love that if you remain true to your craft and to your ethos the world will eventually recognize and admire you. I'm no fanboy, hell I refuse to ride anything not plastic aka crabon fibber but I love the long game and appreciate his deep history in this world.

[rwsaunders]

Like any successful purveyor of an upscale product, RS has done a super job of developing, growing and maintaining his brand awareness in the market through a number of outlets and staying true to his customer/client base. You can't doubt his commitment to the framebuilding industry and the sport either. I'd ride one.

[mg2ride]

I've never understood why he is viewed as "polarizing."



ATMO, He is not polarizing. It's the fanboys that make the subject polarizing.

I don't get the magazine and the article does not seem to be available online (for free anyway).

I guess, I will have to wait for Sachs to post it on his website.

[weisan]

BTW, I have heard this repeated a couple of times here and elsewhere: how Ritchie pal has successfully cultivated a brand or image. Honestly, I don't even know what you guys are talkin' about.

Er....yes, please go ahead and put the burden on me, I am not as well-connected and well-informed as the rest of you, maybe I am not even part of the target demographics, which is entirely possible, and it's ok with me. :D

[bikingshearer]

Polarizing? News to me. He builds very nice frames. He has lots of knowledge. He has lots of opinions. He shares both.

My one and only interaction with RS came at the last NAHBS to be held in San Jose (2007?). It was Sunday afternoon, the show was winding down, and he was getting started on packing up. I was admiring his handiwork, but did not want to bother him because I knew I was purely in "Looky-Lou" mode. He came over and said hello and asked if I had any questions. I told him I didn't want to take him away from what he was doing because I was not in the market for a frame but was just enjoying what he had on display. He had other things to do, and I made it clear that he absolutely did not have to spend any time with me, but he did anyway. Classy.

We had a very pleasant chat for a few minutes, and went our separate ways.

[mg2ride]

Polarizing? News to me. He builds very nice frames. He has lots of knowledge. He has lots of opinions. He shares both.

My one and only interaction with RS came at the last NAHBS to be held in San Jose (2007?). It was Sunday afternoon, the show was winding down, and he was getting started on packing up. I was admiring his handiwork, but did not want to bother him because I knew I was purely in "Looky-Lou" mode. He came over and said hello and asked if I had any questions. I told him I didn't want to take him away from what he was doing because I was not in the market for a frame but was just enjoying what he had on display. He had other things to do, and I made it clear that he absolutely did not have to spend any time with me, but he did anyway. Classy.

We had a very pleasant chat for a few minutes, and went our separate ways.

Very cool story. I had the same experience with a used car salesman one time.

[Louis]

My interactions with him in person (NAHBS Indy) and online (open forum and via PM) have also been quite pleasant and enjoyable. Not sure what all the negative fuss is about him.

[RoadWhale]

Very cool story. I had the same experience with a used car salesman one time.

If you've had more than one conversation with a used car salesman in your life, then you realize how special your interaction was.

[Tony T]

Like any successful purveyor of an upscale product, RS has done a super job of developing, growing and maintaining his brand awareness in the market through a number of outlets and staying true to his customer/client base. You can't doubt his commitment to the framebuilding industry and the sport either. I'd ride one.

What good is brand awareness if you can't buy the brand?

[sailorboy]

If nothing else, a good take home message from this article or any number of others I've read about Richard over the years, is believe in yourself.

I've found myself envious of his position as I compare to my own professional life. I guess working as a physical therapist, the equivalent would be completely dedicating yourself to one niche of the profession, to the point that you become so well-known for expertise in that specialty that you could walk away from 3rd party payment and insist only on fee-for-service for what you do. Some surgeons and MDs work this way as well.

There are some out there that can do it; can walk away from all the BS that comes with dealing with insurance companies to get paid and keep your practice running, but most of us are not so fortunate.

The Japan connection speaks to me as well. I recall being smitten with the work ethic and pride I saw while living over there. The crew manager at a honda dealership service bay bowed profusely and apologized because I brought in my 12 year-old car with a blown head gasket. They left me with the impression that they bore the responsibility for their product wearing out, and fixed it for a fraction what you pay over here.

He's a role model to me in his relentless dedication to always improve. And yea, he makes nice bikes.

[Peter P.]

... I don't think he's compromised anything despite reaching the pinnacle of his profession. I'd bet he spends the same amount of time hand filing his custom lugs for each and every bike he's ever built and will build...

I don't mean to pick nits but there is a part of his frame he's compromised on.

He used to use tabbed front and rear dropouts, and would file them to beautiful curved points where they enter the tubes.

He has since designed and uses a faux-filed dropout with the same finished edge. Although look closely and you can see the difference in the profile. Now he merely cuts the tube square at the end and brazes it in, no laborious filing necessary.

I thought it was a brilliant idea which would save labor and increase output. But output volume was never a requirement for him. I could understand creating the dropout for other framebuilders, but to use in his own work kind of takes away some of what makes his frames appealing; I really marveled at how he formed the junction between those dropouts and the tubes.

[sailorboy]

Yeah. I view frame building as more of a learned skill than some form of Zen artistry. I think I would rather read an interview with Dave Kirk or Tom Kellogg. RS does appear a bit too "out there" for me, but maybe that is his brand.

Tim

See below

The interview was horrendous.
(I'm not referring to the rs answers, I'm referring to the way bm edited the interview)

I think it has to be said that we can only judge the interview while considering it was edited by someone else.

For those who focus on him sounding 'out there' I think it helps if you have met and spoken to him in person. This same basic interview has been done multiple times before, so I also think it is hard to keep telling the same story over and over and make it interesting for people.

[dustyrider]

BTW, I have heard this repeated a couple of times here and elsewhere: how Ritchie pal has successfully cultivated a brand or image. Honestly, I don't even know what you guys are talkin' about.

Er....yes, please go ahead and put the burden on me, I am not as well-connected and well-informed as the rest of you, maybe I am not even part of the target demographics, which is entirely possible, and it's ok with me. :D

You and me both Weisan-pal. I hadn't heard of Richard Sachs until I joined this forum, and even then I figured it was an ancient bike builder of yester year. The filagree lug work coupled with the exclusivity of their used prices made my ignorance seem logical. They were always red, too! Which is not even in my top ten favorite colors.
Then threads like these popped up. People love or hate them was a common generalization except they turn up used a lot, so I would say that broad generalization isn't true. People must love them, hate them and think of them like any other bike. No surprise there!
Later on, I figured out the e-Ritchie connection sort of, never was sure about the polarizing brand persona because spoiler alert somewhere I read you can't order a new Sachs anymore...oops. I've never even googled it...gasp. Maybe one day; winter is coming after all!

[rwsaunders]

What good is brand awareness if you can't buy the brand?

Just because the frame queue is closed, that doesn't mean that one can't purchase and enjoy RS designed and sourced tubing, lugs, forks, other framebuilding supplies and swag. I'd venture to say that RS brand awareness and industry experience sure helps to move these products within the framebuilding community, as well as with the end users. I'd venture to say that brand awareness in this case helps to attract sponsors which help to support a CX team as well.

[bikingshearer]

Very cool story. I had the same experience with a used car salesman one time.

Was that piece of snark really necessary?

[Louis]

Was that piece of snark really necessary?

It says more about mg2ride than it does about Sachs.

[ERK55]

That would seem to be the case.

[mg2ride]

Was that piece of snark really necessary?

I seems just a necessary as your story of how he was kind enough to speak to you one time.

Although I should be thanking you for making my original point for me. The issue is never with Sachs, it's with people who feel honored by his presence.

[weisan]

It may seem like a good idea at the time but....cynicism kills the soul....eventually.

[mg2ride]

It may seem like a good idea at the time but....cynicism kills the soul....eventually.

I'm sure if I understood how that applies, I would agree.

[oldpotatoe]

It may seem like a good idea at the time but....cynicism kills the soul....eventually.

Then you need a Campag bike..you cynic!!;););) Find your inner Italian.

[William]

Then you need a Campag bike..you cynic!!;););) Find your inner Italian.

Break Free Weisan-pal! :)




William

[weisan]

Break Free Weisan-pal! :)




William
I have, William pal.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ff/d6/fc/ffd6fce6b8ddb72798849e2c19326b96.jpg

[fuzzalow]

I read many of these responses and I am saddened by how little regard many seem to have for themselves when confronted by the presence of artifice.

[weisan]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6f/70/b9/6f70b96569b5b841cceaedd66fb0429a.jpg

[redir]

Shucks I forgot to bring the mag into work today to read at lunch time.

I think I can relate to RS in a way since I build guitars, a very specialized craft in an age of cheap but very nice and good quality factory imports.

If you can make it in a small old world craft business you must be doing something right. You do not get to the highest level of the craft, and have the clients to support it, if you are simply good at marketing for example. That might last a little while but will soon come to an abrupt end.

Gee I wonder if RS is a guitar player. I'd love to have one of his CX bikes. :beer:

[ergott]

Shucks I forgot to bring the mag into work today to read at lunch time.

I think I can relate to RS in a way since I build guitars, a very specialized craft in an age of cheap but very nice and good quality factory imports.

If you can make it in a small old world craft business you must be doing something right. You do not get to the highest level of the craft, and have the clients to support it, if you are simply good at marketing for example. That might last a little while but will soon come to an abrupt end.

Gee I wonder if RS is a guitar player. I'd love to have one of his CX bikes. :beer:

I play bass if you need wheels;-)

[Chris]

I've intentionally stayed out of this because, well, it seems like everyone has made up their minds about someone who most don't know and have never had an interaction with other than reading some posts on the internet. I'm sure that mg2ride isn't the person that he comes across here, so I am going to give him a little leeway and not judge someone based on their internet persona. This is the mistake a lot of people have done here. Hopefully, despite the cloak of anonymity this provides you, some of you will eventually come to realize that there is an actual human being behind the internet moniker.

I tell this story from time to time. Just like bikingshearer, I met Richard at a NAHBS. It was at the end of the day and he was closing up. He was very welcoming. Once I told him my screen name on here, he said, "Oh yeah, your from Oklahoma" Then he remembered what I do for a living. I was pretty impressed just by the memory. We talked a little bit and then I left him to pack up his display. Sometime later some tornadoes ripped through the town were I live. A few hours later I get a message from Richard asking if my family and I were okay. He's touched base periodically through the years during times like that. It's always been an appreciated gesture.

Through the years, Richard has done more to promote cycling and sponsor young riders than dare I say anyone else on this board has. Look at the list of guys who got their start with Richard. I think Richard is a good person. Richard is succinct generally. To some that can come across as abrupt. He's lived his life the way he wants to and if that is threatening to some, then so be it, but the person, Richard Sachs, does not deserve the vitriol thrown his way at times.

If some of you had mothers, they didn't do a good job of teaching you some of the things you should know as adults. If you grew up in an orphanage or raised by wolves then I give you a pass.

[FlashUNC]

It may seem like a good idea at the time but....cynicism kills the soul....eventually.

Everything dies eventually. You, me, snails, microbes, star systems, even the universe itself.

[El Chaba]

I like Richard Sachs....He has strong opinions on certain things...Sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't, but I certainly don't think any less of him for disagreeing on something every once in a while...The sport/business needs about 1000 more just like him....

[cw05]

I've intentionally stayed out of this because, well, it seems like everyone has made up their minds about someone who most don't know and have never had an interaction with other than reading some posts on the internet. I'm sure that mg2ride isn't the person that he comes across here, so I am going to give him a little leeway and not judge someone based on their internet persona. This is the mistake a lot of people have done here. Hopefully, despite the cloak of anonymity this provides you, some of you will eventually come to realize that there is an actual human being behind the internet moniker.

I tell this story from time to time. Just like bikingshearer, I met Richard at a NAHBS. It was at the end of the day and he was closing up. He was very welcoming. Once I told him my screen name on here, he said, "Oh yeah, your from Oklahoma" Then he remembered what I do for a living. I was pretty impressed just by the memory. We talked a little bit and then I left him to pack up his display. Sometime later some tornadoes ripped through the town were I live. A few hours later I get a message from Richard asking if my family and I were okay. He's touched base periodically through the years during times like that. It's always been an appreciated gesture.

Through the years, Richard has done more to promote cycling and sponsor young riders than dare I say anyone else on this board has. Look at the list of guys who got their start with Richard. I think Richard is a good person. Richard is succinct generally. To some that can come across as abrupt. He's lived his life the way he wants to and if that is threatening to some, then so be it, but the person, Richard Sachs, does not deserve the vitriol thrown his way at times.

If some of you had mothers, they didn't do a good job of teaching you some of the things you should know as adults. If you grew up in an orphanage or raised by wolves then I give you a pass.
Nicely stated!

[weisan]

Everything dies eventually. You, me, snails, microbes, star systems, even the universe itself.

Flash pal, you have to say it with a certain voice...

http://www.lyricsmode.com/i/bpictures/big/14262.jpg

[sailorboy]

I'm sure if I understood how that applies, I would agree.

Well, you seem intelligent enough to know how it applies, but in the interest of putting it down in 1s and 0s, it's your short, trollish responses in this thread that don't add much to the discourse (cynicism). We got it at your first post, you don't see the reason to show him any deference. Some who respect and/or admire Richard may feel the desire to share a note about their experiences with him, others may take it a step further and feel the need to call you out on your repeated remarks. It's a free country and all that so have at it.

[mg2ride]

Well, you seem intelligent enough to know how it applies, but in the interest of putting it down in 1s and 0s, it's your short, trollish responses in this thread that don't add much to the discourse (cynicism). We got it at your first post, you don't see the reason to show him any deference. Some who respect and/or admire Richard may feel the desire to share a note about their experiences with him, others may take it a step further and feel the need to call you out on your repeated remarks. It's a free country and all that so have at it.

And there lies the part I just don't comprehend.

As it turns out I have had almost the same experience with Richard. I met him at a bike show and he was open, polite and free with his time although it was clear I was not in the market. Years ago he helped me track down some info about a tube set used on a bike I had that was build by someone else.

My comments in this particular thread are more in his defense than any kind of attack.

Why does there seem to be a need for some people (Likely just few) to come running to his defense in every singe thread his name is mentioned.

I truly do not understand. I suspect it is one of the main reasons he has stepped back his online presence.

[malcolm]

And there lies the part I just don't comprehend.

As it turns out I have had almost the same experience with Richard. I met him at a bike show and he was open, polite and free with his time although it was clear I was not in the market. Years ago he helped me track down some info about a tube set used on a bike I had that was build by someone else.

My comments in this particular thread are more in his defense than any kind of attack.

Why does there seem to be a need for some people (Likely just few) to come running to his defense in every singe thread his name is mentioned.

I truly do not understand. I suspect it is one of the main reasons he has stepped back his online presence.

Post (original two) seemed negative to me and apparently everyone else that read it. I think petty would pretty much sum it up. You talk about fan boys yet every time one of these threads pop up you chime in. If they bother you so much don't read and certainly don't post.

[sailorboy]

And there lies the part I just don't comprehend.

As it turns out I have had almost the same experience with Richard. I met him at a bike show and he was open, polite and free with his time although it was clear I was not in the market. Years ago he helped me track down some info about a tube set used on a bike I had that was build by someone else.

My comments in this particular thread are more in his defense than any kind of attack.

Why does there seem to be a need for some people (Likely just few) to come running to his defense in every singe thread his name is mentioned.

I truly do not understand. I suspect it is one of the main reasons he has stepped back his online presence.

"Fanboys"

and

"Used car salesman"

both posts where you used these terms came across as inflammatory to me, certainly not complimentary to anyone. Especially in the context of one or two-liners. Feel free to elaborate to anyone still reading if you'd like, but I'm disengaging now as I've said all I feel I need.

[weisan]

My "free" copy of the Bicycling magazine just showed up this morning at the kitchen countertop, I guess my son went and checked mail late last night after I had gone to bed.

And I just made it through reading the whole article a minute ago.

The article is written by Bill Strickland, the editor-in-chief of the magazine.
It recounts the interview Bill had with Richard Sachs.

I have a hard time following the article especially at the first part where the author is trying to paint some background about his subject. It was hard to tell who's actually doing the talking, was it Bill Strickland (BS) or Richard Sachs (RS). I was able to finally settled down when the article started to fall back on the standard format in an interview with:

BS: blah blah blah

RS: blah blah blah

If this is a form of communication, and the goal is to communicate clearly and to help the readers learn or gain new information or further their understanding of the subject matter (framebuilding or the framebuilder himself), I think the author of this article can do a better job. I have seen this happened before in the past where the editor-in-chiefs themselves took some liberty and risk with their own work or writing, and they ended up producing something of sub-par quality or one that they would never allow to see the light of day if it's something that came from their own staff members. I think that's a shame because it doesn't have to be that way.

What I gleaned from this article mostly is the difficult task of describing what one has learned or mastered through a long arduous process of self-discovery, trials and errors, and personal revelations. It's a process or experience that is almost impossible to live vicariously through another person. One has "to walk through the gauntlet" yourselves to fully understand, nobody can do it for you...I mean we can, but it won't be the same.

I read a book titled "Siddartha" when I was 14. A bunch of people, scholars, teachers, brahmins, heard that the Indian prince Siddartha has achieved enlightenment and they all came from afar to try and understand what exactly he has come to realize or learn, to get answers to the big mystery or question(s). Through their endless questioning and clarifying with the Buddha, it became clear after a while that they were going around and around in circles, some became even more confused than when they started, that the discourse is not going anywhere. Eventually, one by one, they all picked up their mats, took a bow to the Buddha, thanked him for his time, and left feeling disappointed and dejected. Buddha was saddened by the sight as well. I remembered my young heart was moved as well, and I started to cry. It was sad.

(deep breath)

I think St. Fransis of Assisi had similar thoughts as well when he said,
"Preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words..."

[beeatnik]

^Bill Strickland is the Guy Talese of bicycle writing. I like his style (although I don't believe there is much nobility in suffering on a bicycle).

[AllanVarcoe]

I don't mean to pick nits but there is a part of his frame he's compromised on.

He used to use tabbed front and rear dropouts, and would file them to beautiful curved points where they enter the tubes.

He has since designed and uses a faux-filed dropout with the same finished edge. Although look closely and you can see the difference in the profile. Now he merely cuts the tube square at the end and brazes it in, no laborious filing necessary.

I thought it was a brilliant idea which would save labor and increase output. But output volume was never a requirement for him. I could understand creating the dropout for other framebuilders, but to use in his own work kind of takes away some of what makes his frames appealing; I really marveled at how he formed the junction between those dropouts and the tubes.

I think it's more to save himself than anything else. As a guy who tinkers in the garage with building my own frames a lot of filing can wear on your wrists/carpel tunnel.

[FlashUNC]

^Bill Strickland is the Guy Talese of bicycle writing. I like his style (although I don't believe there is much nobility in suffering on a bicycle).

*Gay

[572cv]

My "free" copy of the Bicycling magazine just showed up this morning ........
What I gleaned from this article mostly is the difficult task of describing what one has learned or mastered through a long arduous process of self-discovery, trials and errors, and personal revelations. It's a process or experience that is almost impossible to live vicariously through another person. One has "to walk through the gauntlet" yourselves to fully understand, nobody can do it for you...I mean we can, but it won't be the same.

I read a book titled "Siddartha" when I was 14. A bunch of people, scholars, teachers, brahmins, heard that the Indian prince Siddartha has achieved enlightenment and they all came from afar to try and understand what exactly he has come to realize or learn, to get answers to the big mystery or question(s). Through their endless questioning and clarifying with the Buddha, it became clear after a while that they were going around and around in circles, some became even more confused than when they started, that the discourse is not going anywhere. Eventually, one by one, they all picked up their mats, took a bow to the Buddha, thanked him for his time, and left feeling disappointed and dejected. Buddha was saddened by the sight as well. I remembered my young heart was moved as well, and I started to cry. It was sad.

(deep breath)

I think St. Fransis of Assisi had similar thoughts as well when he said,
"Preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words..."

Thanks Weisan-pal for making a concerted effort to raise this discussion up to a higher level. It is so easy to get lost in the weeds on the internet, and a topic veers off into self destruction, defensiveness or attacks. There are really bright people on the Paceline, offering warm and thoughtful advice on all kinds of things, particularly those things they know well themselves.

I'd rather be considering the 40,000 ft view you just offered, not just on this , but on a lot of topics. Change and improvement come when twists in the path can be considered clearly.

[redir]

I play bass if you need wheels;-)

Ah well perhaps we should talk :)

I've made a couple electric bass's in the past. A 5 string that a band mate of mine bought from me years ago and a four that I keep for myself. Actually now that I think of it my band mate borrowed that one a while back too.

[bikingshearer]

I seems just a necessary as your story of how he was kind enough to speak to you one time.

Although I should be thanking you for making my original point for me. The issue is never with Sachs, it's with people who feel honored by his presence.

I was about to draft a substantive response, but you simply aren't worth it. People who create strawmen to be knocked down - especially with gratuitous insults - rarely, if ever, are.

[JLNK]

I have a RS frameset. The quotes copied and pasted below are from an interview with the Rivendell Reader in 2003 that is posted on RS's website. I have included them below as I think they help to explain the feel of the RS frame I have. It is the whole package of how the rearend feels, the frontend and steering feel, the resilience from both ends but with wonderful steering in the front and resilience in the back but with no flex in the bottom bracket when standing in a big gear - the overal comfort of the bike - the whole package.

"My front wheel bases are longer than most, my trail measurements are less than most, my centers of gravity are lower than most, my chainstays are longer than most. Across the board, you know, my set-backs are longer than most (his seat tube angles are shallower — Ed.). Modern frame design has, unfortunately, become Americanized. By that I mean I think fine bicycle making as far as the design goes reached its zenith before the bike boom. That doesn’t mean improvements haven’t occurred, but if you look at racing bikes up through maybe the middle of the 70s — but no newer than that — most of them were comfortably designed, they allow the rider to finish races, they were more stable. And since then, things have changed."

"Well, the bike has to be forgiving and resilient so it can be ridden comfortably. I don’t know what stiffness is. My notion is that when a rider feels what he thinks is a lack of it (stiffness) it’s really the result of a poorly designed or constructed bike. I think the assembly methods also contribute to how the bike feels, and it’s not simply the tube’s gauge or cross section."

Obviously a RS frame is not of interest for everyone but if you have a chance to ride one I suggest you try it.

[redir]

Finally got around to reading the article. I liked it. I think it did a fine enough job in showing RS's mindset. And I can totally relate to it. The author even mentioned that RS gathered inspiration from Luthiers. That's what I can relate too. There are very similar things I can imagine in building a bike as there is in building a guitar. In fact the markets share similar things as well. Factory production has gotten so good now that you can buy a $500 guitar that will do everything you ever need and your audience won't notice a difference at all.

But if you want to buy a bike or an instrument from a maker who oversaw every single part of it's creation and strive for exacting details, because as a craftsman you are always seeking to get better with every iteration, that no one will ever notice and in the end created an imperfect object then you will have a certain sense of satisfaction being a part of that experience.

Sure I can ride a Chinese carbon bike or play a Chinese solid wood guitar and be just as competitive in the field or sound stellar on stage and the far majority of the people out there will be happy with that as they should be because it's good quality stuff. But buying something that was handmade with such details is more than just buying a tool to do a job it's buying into the art of it as well.

If you have about an hours worth of time watch this video of a master craftsman at his work. Every chisel stroke is done with the intensity of perfection. I'm sure that he even admits that the guitar he built in the end was not perfect but no one will notice it and someone will have paid a good deal of money to find out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAeXskZHC2o&feature=youtu.be

[OtayBW]

I read a book titled "Siddartha" when I was 14. A bunch of people, scholars, teachers, brahmins, heard that the Indian prince Siddartha has achieved enlightenment and they all came from afar to try and understand what exactly he has come to realize or learn, to get answers to the big mystery or question(s). Through their endless questioning and clarifying with the Buddha, it became clear after a while that they were going around and around in circles, some became even more confused than when they started, that the discourse is not going anywhere. Eventually, one by one, they all picked up their mats, took a bow to the Buddha, thanked him for his time, and left feeling disappointed and dejected. Buddha was saddened by the sight as well. I remembered my young heart was moved as well, and I started to cry. It was sad.

(deep breath)

Later in the (larger) story, the Buddha gives his first 'sermon', simply by holding up a flower, offering direct communication of the Truth, the Dharma - whatever you may choose to call it. Only Mahkashapa 'got it' and responded with a smile, thus affecting a long lineage of 'transmission outside the scriptures'.

[livingminimal]

I think it's more to save himself than anything else. As a guy who tinkers in the garage with building my own frames a lot of filing can wear on your wrists/carpel tunnel.

Yep. Ask the 30 year old frame builders walking around that already have tendonitis from filing. There's more than one.

Now think about making lugged bicycle frames without much of a pause for almost 40 years.

[hellvetica]

Threads like these make me enjoy riding my RS so much more.

http://images.wisegeek.com/thank-you.jpg

[Corso]

The people who “defend” RS online tend to be the people who have actually MET and SPOKEN to him.

I use “defend”, as he does not need anyone defending him at all.

I’ve met him. I’ve spoken to him. He’s a nice person. I love his bikes. Someday I hope to have one.
That’s all.

[bcroslin]

Just read the piece on the plane. A little too navel-gazy for me but interesting nonetheless. Btw - Joe Pug who shot the images for the piece is not only a killer photographer but also no slouch on a road bike.

[shovelhd]

I got to read it thanks to USA Cycling. I thought it was really well done.

[fiamme red]

For those (like me) who don't get a paper copy of Bicycling, here's the link to the article: http://www.bicycling.com/culture/people/the-universes-most-enigmatic-frame-builder.

"Editor's Note: This is an extended version of an interview first published in the October 2016 print edition of Bicycling."