School me: New Shimano Outboard BB's

[Robbos]

A thoroughly uninteresting question, but I just installed a new 6800 BB on my bike and I was surprised how Shimano has made the BB so much smaller that the outboard BB on my 10 speed Shimano crankset. To the point that the standard outboard BB tool requires a plastic insert. Has Shimano made the bearings smaller? Is there any difference from your experience in these newer BB's vs the 10 speed gen ones?

[Dead Man]

I'm not super stoked about it myself.. I'd never worn out a DA BB until 9000, and I just replaced one after like 4200-4500 miles.. Drive side was totally shot to crap

It's a cheap part and easy to replace part and has always been considered a "wear part," so it's not a big deal.. But still. DA bearing are supposed to be an upgrade. Onward and upward, shimano! No steps back

[Cicli]

I'm not super stoked about it myself.. I'd never worn out a DA BB until 9000, and I just replaced one after like 4200-4500 miles.. Drive side was totally shot to crap

It's a cheap part and easy to replace part and has always been considered a "wear part," so it's not a big deal.. But still. DA bearing are supposed to be an upgrade. Onward and upward, shimano! No steps back

Yeah, the DA seals are a downgrade though. Less drag? Looser seals.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm not super stoked about it myself.. I'd never worn out a DA BB until 9000, and I just replaced one after like 4200-4500 miles.. Drive side was totally shot to crap

It's a cheap part and easy to replace part and has always been considered a "wear part," so it's not a big deal.. But still. DA bearing are supposed to be an upgrade. Onward and upward, shimano! No steps back

Who knows why shimano does what they do. When shimano went to a cart bearing HS in the early 90s....and made a ton of forks obsolete...who knows?

[tv_vt]

I've heard some nice things about Hawk Racing bottom brackets lately. They make one to replace threaded outboard Shimano bb's.

Anyone out there running one and care to comment on their performance?

[saab2000]

Who knows why shimano does what they do. When shimano went to a cart bearing HS in the early 90s....and made a ton of forks obsolete...who knows?

How did this make forks obsolete? I had two bikes basically saved by these Shimano headsets. I had a Grandis and a Peugeot that basically ate headsets for lunch. They never aligned properly, even after a proper facing job, and would invariably pit the races.

Got Shimano cartridge headsets and the problem was solved forever for both frames. Brilliant design IMHO.

Regarding the BBs, I'd wager it's all about saving grams. There's no other logical reason. Not that saving a gram or two is logical, but that's all I can think of. I have 9000 groupsets with the smaller bearing. Then I got a 5800 and it uses the 6800 BB bearing I believe and requires a slightly different installation tool. The only possible reason for this would be that the 9000 is a tiny bit lighter by virtue of it being a tiny bit smaller.

[oldpotatoe]

How did this make forks obsolete? I had two bikes basically saved by these Shimano headsets. I had a Grandis and a Peugeot that basically ate headsets for lunch. They never aligned properly, even after a proper facing job, and would invariably pit the races.

Got Shimano cartridge headsets and the problem was solved forever for both frames. Brilliant design IMHO.

Regarding the BBs, I'd wager it's all about saving grams. There's no other logical reason. Not that saving a gram or two is logical, but that's all I can think of. I have 9000 groupsets with the smaller bearing. Then I got a 5800 and it uses the 6800 BB bearing I believe and requires a slightly different installation tool. The only possible reason for this would be that the 9000 is a tiny bit lighter by virtue of it being a tiny bit smaller.

Stack height went from 33mm ish to 39...if you had no spacers in your headset...new cart bearing HS wouldn't fit. Saw this all the time in early 90s in Morgul-Bismark.

[saab2000]

Stack height went from 33mm ish to 39...if you had no spacers in your headset...new cart bearing HS wouldn't fit. Saw this all the time in early 90s in Morgul-Bismark.

That may have been a problem. It didn't cause any issues for me.

The funny thing is that I have three bikes with Campagnolo headsets now and they are all perfect after thousands of miles. No pitting or any signs of wear at all. Of course, I think all three bikes are built to a much higher level of precision than the Peugeot and Grandis.....

[Robbos]

Huh, that's rather unfortunate. I was hoping Shimano added some special pixy dust to be able to make a smaller BB that runs longer. But appearently not, votes seem to be in for built-in crapulence as the reason.
On a very small positive note, the new bb looks nicer on my old steel frame.

[kittytrail]

Huh, that's rather unfortunate. I was hoping Shimano added some special pixy dust to be able to make a smaller BB that runs longer. But appearently not, votes seem to be in for built-in crapulence as the reason.
On a very small positive note, the new bb looks nicer on my old steel frame.

not sure if crapulence might be the primary reason, more likely all the online clamoring about the older ones being way too heavier according to weight-obsessed 'tards/journos/bike sites reporting on how heavy any part is first and then slamming all those obese components in meaningless comparisons charts. much like how those ceramic bearings roll so much smoother and longer when the wheel/bb/headset is in your hands. bad move from Shimano except maybe for sub-110 lbs smooth pedalers. :(

[saab2000]

On a very small positive note, the new bb looks nicer on my old steel frame.

This is definitely true. I looked at my Pacenti today with this Ultegra BB and it doesn't look bad at all.

We'll see about the durability but so far, so good.

[kramnnim]

When you buy one of these BBs, do they come with the shim/insert?

[Dead Man]

When you buy one of these BBs, do they come with the shim/insert?

Yes.. They do. And you usually mangle the one that comes with it up enough that you don't really wanna reuse it again, so good that you get a new one with every BB

[kramnnim]

Awesome.

I wonder how much smaller the individual balls are...

[Cicli]

Yes.. They do. And you usually mangle the one that comes with it up enough that you don't really wanna reuse it again, so good that you get a new one with every BB

The best solution.

http://www.abbeybiketools.com/collections/tools/products/dual-sided-bottom-bracket-socket

[peanutgallery]

Wasn't the campy standard 41 mm back then:) Thats the measurement I always used for every headset back then


Stack height went from 33mm ish to 39...if you had no spacers in your headset...new cart bearing HS wouldn't fit. Saw this all the time in early 90s in Morgul-Bismark.

[regularguy412]

Back on topic,, sorta:

Here's my .02 on the best outboard BB for Shimano:

[pdonk]

Explains why when I bought a new bottom bracket and the required tool last week, they did not work together.

Yes the plastic adapter is crap. New Park tool, new bottom bracket and it still slipped.

[Ronsonic]

The best solution.

http://www.abbeybiketools.com/collections/tools/products/dual-sided-bottom-bracket-socket

Great thinking in that one. Love that stuff.

[cd_davis]

Thanks, just ordered the Abbey tool, good find.

[RowanB]

Explains why when I bought a new bottom bracket and the required tool last week, they did not work together.

Yes the plastic adapter is crap. New Park tool, new bottom bracket and it still slipped.

Sounds about right. You can make the park tool work if you're very careful, but it's not a great design. I think the abbey tool with the central spindle looks much better.

[ColonelJLloyd]

In a perfect world my shop would have all the Abbey tools hanging neatly. It would also be clean enough to, you know. . . walk around in without great risk of minor injury.

[oldpotatoe]

Explains why when I bought a new bottom bracket and the required tool last week, they did not work together.

Yes the plastic adapter is crap. New Park tool, new bottom bracket and it still slipped.

As an aside, gonna build some wheels, front is a 15mm TA XT hub...needs adjustment outta the box BUT uses 22mm cone wrenches...I have lotsa cone wrenches but 22mm??? Just ordered 2....probably use them again in a year or so:cool:

[ColonelJLloyd]

As an aside, gonna build some wheels, front is a 15mm TA XT hub...needs adjustment outta the box BUT uses 22mm cone wrenches...I have lotsa cone wrenches but 22mm??? Just ordered 2....probably use them again in a year or so:cool:

Eeee. I guess that's the only way you can have your thru axles and loose ball bearings. Convertible end caps just make so much damn sense to me.

[KidWok]

Are the new smaller BB's reverse compatible? Are the older ones forward compatible?

Tai

[RowanB]

Are the new smaller BB's reverse compatible? Are the older ones forward compatible?

Tai

Yes and yes, apart from the aforementioned tool insert.

[avalonracing]

The Park Tool part for the new BB fits so well it is pretty much impossible to gouge the BB during installation and removal.

It may wear out fast but it is very inexpensive and it you have to replace it every season or two it might not be a bad than as it will make you give your bike a good teardown.

Finally ANYTHING is better than noisy integrated BBs. This BB is quiet!

[d_douglas]

somewhat off topic, but can I use an SLX M675 BB on a road crankset? Just curious...

[pdonk]

Sounds about right. You can make the park tool work if you're very careful, but it's not a great design. I think the abbey tool with the central spindle looks much better.

I did not realize the standard changed or I would have ordered the right tool. I'll likely donate the tool to the tool library by my place as I won't be needing it for awhile.

[oldpotatoe]

somewhat off topic, but can I use an SLX M675 BB on a road crankset? Just curious...

I don't think so. These are designed to be used on a 73mm shell and if you have a 68mm shell, use spacers on the LH and RH side..and for cranks with longer spindles. But road BBs are cross compatible..ala, use say a 6600/6700 on a 9000 crank, type thing.

[benb]

That Abbey BB socket looks awesome.. it's expensive but I'd be tempted to order one as you must be able to use it with a proper torque wrench. I have the older Shimano tool that just looks like an open wrench and I guess I have not gotten one of these new BBs yet. I haven't had major issues with the tool I have but it never escapes me that the BB has a torque value written right on it and the Shimano tool precludes me from being able to use a torque wrench.

Not a big deal.. I only have one bike with this style BB right now and I put SRAM on it. The SRAM GXP BBs are compatible with the older Shimano outboard BBs so my tool works fine.

I still have an ancient Octalink V1 BB on my mountain bike, the XT flavor. It's about 15 years old and still working fine, it even predates that frame, though I am worried if it ever dies I won't be able to get it out. These new ones are much easier to work on but it's not like the old ones were necessarily bad.

[Robbos]

Personally I had no problems getting the new bb in place using the plastic adapter that inserts into the Park tool. When I eventually do kill this BB, I was looking at Wheels Manufacturings replacements. Anyone have any experience with them? From what I understand you can replace just the bearings, and they are a lot cheaper than Phils BB's.
http://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/threaded-bb/bsa-threaded-bottom-brackets/standard-bottom-bracket-with-steel-bearings-for-24mm-cranks-shimano-gray.html