Real life benefits of carbon wheels?

[vqdriver]

Dead sexy on the right bike, but it seems a lot of the advances are to get back to aluminum rim performance and weight benchmarks. I get the aero benefits at speed, but is there any day to day benefit for the typical rider? Think neighborhood streets with stop signs and long avenues but nothing epically epic.

[peanutgallery]

If you like creaky wheels with a really limited lifespan, buy em. Otherwise save your dinero. Aero is the only benefit, plan on them lasting less than 5000 miles

[FlashUNC]

Lol.

I love my Shamals, but Hyperons are head and shoulders better.

[adub]

About the same real life benefits of a carbon frame.

[kramnnim]

If you like creaky wheels with a really limited lifespan, buy em. Otherwise save your dinero. Aero is the only benefit, plan on them lasting less than 5000 miles

What? Maybe don't buy cheap carbon rims. My Enve rims have been perfectly fine for...I guess I haven't counted, but over 20,000 miles, and will likely be fine for another 20,000.

[benc]

They're fast. Borrow a pair or test out some loaners from your LBS. There will likely be naysayers around here but I suggest you make your own opinion.

I'm 5500 miles in on a pair if Chinese carbon clinchers. 200+\- miles a week of shotty intown Atlanta roads. When I ride other wheels, I miss my carbons. I'm a roadie racer with a 15# bike.

[R3awak3n]

maybe my alloy wheels are not as awesome but my enve wheels spin pretty fast and they are stiff. I do feel faster with them but could just be in my head.

braking sucks but I quite enjoy ridding carbon wheels

[vqdriver]

They're fast. Borrow a pair or test out some loaners from your LBS. There will likely be naysayers around here but I suggest you make your opinion

Yep. Im curious enough that i will eventually. But its good to have some expectations. thats not a cheap experiment either.

[R3awak3n]

there has been some really great prices on used carbon in the classifieds, great time to give it a try

[fogrider]

Dead sexy on the right bike, but it seems a lot of the advances are to get back to aluminum rim performance and weight benchmarks. I get the aero benefits at speed, but is there any day to day benefit for the typical rider? Think neighborhood streets with stop signs and long avenues but nothing epically epic.

during the week, I ride on alum rims, weekends, the carbon tubulars come out. and yes I notice the diff!

[beeatnik]

They're fast. Borrow a pair or test out some loaners from your LBS. There will likely be naysayers around here but I suggest you make your own opinion.

I'm 5500 miles in on a pair if Chinese carbon clinchers. 200+\- miles a week of shotty intown Atlanta roads. When I ride other wheels, I miss my carbons. I'm a roadie racer with a 15# bike.

They're fast if you're fast.

[martl]

If you like creaky wheels with a really limited lifespan, buy em. Otherwise save your dinero. Aero is the only benefit, plan on them lasting less than 5000 miles

You can testride my LWs and see if you can make them creak. Also look for any signs of wear other than cosmetic. - good luck with that.
They were made 1998, btw.

@original poster: there are about 50-100 people in the world which actually benefit from light, stiff wheels, those with a chance of winning an important race. For the rest of us, they are just candy. I like candy.

[witcombusa]

They make you faster by lightening your wallet... ;)

[benc]

My carbon clinchers were sub $400 from Baixaing Bike.

[Cicli]

If you like creaky wheels with a really limited lifespan, buy em. Otherwise save your dinero. Aero is the only benefit, plan on them lasting less than 5000 miles

My carbon clinchers were sub $400 from Baixaing Bike.

But are all wheels the same?
Me thinkith not.

[oldpotatoe]

You can testride my LWs and see if you can make them creak. Also look for any signs of wear other than cosmetic. - good luck with that.
They were made 1998, btw.

@original poster: there are about 50-100 people in the world which actually benefit from light, stiff wheels, those with a chance of winning an important race. For the rest of us, they are just candy. I like candy.

Reality, what a concept. The are light(tubular) and stiff and expensive to fix if you wack them. I think the tubular aspect is as or more important than the 'carbon' aspect tho. If you don't 'need' or want aero-ness..I kinda don't get all carbon clinchers. If ya want the carbon 'benefits', don't be a nancy and get tubulari. :o:o:o

[weisan]

I reckon that carbon is basically here to stay for the long haul. The products that are made of it will continue to "iterate and improve".

[ripvanrando]

If you like creaky wheels with a really limited lifespan, buy em. Otherwise save your dinero. Aero is the only benefit, plan on them lasting less than 5000 miles

Really?

I put nearly 5,000 miles on my FLO60 carbon front wheel.....in June.

It is fine.

[ripvanrando]

20-24H carbon wheels are lighter, more aero, stronger, and absorb bumpers better than 32H Alu box rims. Dealing with the special brake pads is a pain though as is all the scare tactics about blowing tubes on clincher versions

[tuscanyswe]

As a messenger i have some real insight into using carbon wheels as every day to day wheels with stop sign and red lights etc. I actually think the benefits feel bigger in this type of scenario then they do on long stretches of country side road. I can feel the ease the lighter carbon wheels accelerates with and how nimble they feel at lower speeds. Once up to speed i guess i know they are faster if aero but that effect is harder to feel imo.

I have been using carbon wheels for most days like 10 years now. My reynolds assault rims must have lasted 50000 km before i traded them. They were still in rather good shape. And these were ridden in northern climate even with snow for some days here and there.

[chiasticon]

they're certainly fun, I'll say that. do you need them? no. but neither do you need anything other than a steel frame with 105 on it. they can improve your enjoyment of a ride similar to the way upgrading to DuraAce or a stiff and light carbon frame would though.

I will agree with OldPotatoe and say that to get the most benefit, tubulars are the way to go; get the aero benefit and the weight benefit. carbon clinchers can be ok too, but I think there's a smaller sweet spot. I had 52mm deep carbon clinchers and they were awesome once you got up to speed or if you were in a fast group and wanted to close a gap or something. but getting them up to speed or up hills was less fun than standard weight alloy wheels; not awful, just less fun. I picked up a pair of zipp 202 FC's here that I'm pretty blown away by though. they feel like standard weight alloy clinchers spinning them up, and they still have that extra aero and stiffness once up to speed. it's not a huge difference, but it's enough to add a little extra something to the ride. and that extra something makes them really enjoyable.

anyway, point is the deeper wheels were great in a way, but ultimately not what I wanted for my style of riding and every day terrain. I'm liking the less deep ones better for just a bit of aero, less weight, and more stiffness. they just suit me better. so if you do demo some wheels, try to demo various ones.

[Gummee]

They're fast. Borrow a pair or test out some loaners from your LBS. There will likely be naysayers around here but I suggest you make your own opinion.

I'm 5500 miles in on a pair if Chinese carbon clinchers. 200+\- miles a week of shotty intown Atlanta roads. When I ride other wheels, I miss my carbons. I'm a roadie racer with a 15# bike.
We've had a few people renting wheels (303s, 808s) coming back saying either it didn't make a difference or they were actually slower.

First and foremost, you have to (get this!) PEDAL THE @#$% BIKE! The aero wheels are that last little bit of speed to help you hang on to the back of the pack or go OTF to win. They're not a panacea for not doing the intervals, etc. Wheels won't make you Cancellara, YOU make you Cancellara.

They certainly aren't a motor that will pedal the bike for you.

Real world? They'll get you about a gear harder (at speed) for the same effort. That's about it. Slower speeds = less benefit other than 'hey lookit me! I'm kewl!'

Having said that: I like em. I've got a few pair now.

...and ride whatcha want. If it makes you want to go ride your bike, it's a good thing.

M

[54ny77]

when i travel i borrow a bike from a pal that has 'em, and they're a heck of a lotta fun when going on terrain and at a pace that suits them (flattish/rolling). i'd call that sweet spot high teens+ mph.

otherwise, it's embarrassing when the road tilts up and i'm "that guy" grinding along at 6-7 mph with high zoot aero wheels.

one thing i'm not a fan of is the braking feel vs. alu. especially if wet/damp out. really takes some finessing/getting used to.

[Mr. Pink]

What? Maybe don't buy cheap carbon rims. My Enve rims have been perfectly fine for...I guess I haven't counted, but over 20,000 miles, and will likely be fine for another 20,000.


Sorry about that self made jinx. Good luck this weekend.

[AngryScientist]

Dead sexy on the right bike,

Just remember people pay big $$ for custom bike paint jobs too, which are all show and no go.

My point is that there is nothing wrong with buying wheels, or anything else simply because you like the way they look. There doesnt HAVE to be another advantage, aesthetics are important too.

[quauhnahuac]

i have owned many carbon clinchers but have since moved back to regular, high quality wheels for everyday riding. the biggest drawbacks for carbon are the psychological that they seem less sturdy with a higher pricetag to fix, and the braking performance with wet. even with magura rim brakes theyre still hard to deal with in the rain.

I do use them for road races and time trials for the aerodynamic advantage, not for crits though (see cons above).

[quauhnahuac]

I can feel the ease the lighter carbon wheels accelerates with and how nimble they feel at lower speeds.

what carbon wheels are you using? even 202s, some of the lightest carbon clincher wheels out there (sacrificing the aero advantage mostly) are nearing 1,400g, which is heavier (and much, much more expensive) than a pair of high quality wheels like DA C24s.

if you're taking 303s/404s, then there is a big gulf in weight.

[tuscanyswe]

what carbon wheels are you using? even 202s, some of the lightest carbon clincher wheels out there (sacrificing the aero advantage mostly) are nearing 1,400g, which is heavier (and much, much more expensive) than a pair of high quality wheels like DA C24s.

if you're taking 303s/404s, then there is a big gulf in weight.

I have had Lightweights ventoux tubs and standards tubs, 202 clinchers and tubs. 303 and 404s tubs. Reynolds 32s clinchers, Reynolds attacks clinchers, Reynolds assaults clinchers and tubs. Reynolds 46 tubs. Corima 32s and Corima 47s both tubs. Campagnolo hyperon tubs, Campagnolo 35s tubs. Fulcrum 35 tubs. Some asian carbon tubies. Enve 25s Enve 38s Enve 45s all tubies. Nimble horse fly and nimble fly tubs. I have probably forgotten one or 2 pairs but maybe thats for the better .) Im also currently building up some light-bicycle 25mm rims in clinchers with some tune hubs too..

I have and have had the need for approx ZERO carbon wheels but since I'm a sucker for carbon wheels (as seen) i can't help myself. The lighter ones do make a difference in how the bike feels as i said imo esp at lower speeds and accelerations or quick turns as one do in a city environment.

The sturdy bit about reynolds were a referene to my assault clinchers and they were not particularly light but not heavy either. If i remember correctly they were like 1480g or something similar but held up as good as any alu rim ever did for me.

[zap]

Dead sexy on the right bike, but it seems a lot of the advances are to get back to aluminum rim performance and weight benchmarks. I get the aero benefits at speed, but is there any day to day benefit for the typical rider? Think neighborhood streets with stop signs and long avenues but nothing epically epic.

Typical rider toodling around. No.

Experienced fast cyclist who's fiddled with lots of bits, can tell the difference between Campy/Shimano hubs and the rest, there are benefits to rolling on high quality carbon wheelsets.

Ride what makes you happy.........just don't be surprised if some skinny person on a mtb with wide knobbies kicks aerocarbon azz on your local wc ride.

[rando]

Just remember people pay big $$ for custom bike paint jobs too, which are all show and no go.

My point is that there is nothing wrong with buying wheels, or anything else simply because you like the way they look. There doesnt HAVE to be another advantage, aesthetics are important too.

The bigger picture is they need to be good wheels long before they fulfill any dreams of being faster or more efficient. In this regard the majority have put years of inconsistent manufacturing processes, dangerous failures, and neglected braking performance behind them.

One other thing. Full carbon clinchers don't melt their brake tracks (high UV + extended technical descent) and fail stupendously under normal conditions. What is debatable is their ability to produce enough friction along the bead and rim bed to resist the forces generated in an emergency maneuver. These are two very distinct issues that can both result in throwing the tire or popping a tube at very bad times.

[kramnnim]

Sorry about that self made jinx. Good luck this weekend.

:banana::banana:

[sandyrs]

Why do people who buy Dura Ace drivetrains and carbon-railed saddles wring their hands so much over carbon wheels? As said above, all are candy. Your Dura Ace nets you some grams over 105, and carbon wheels net you a few watts compared to Ksyriums, but neither's going to flatten Ventoux for you or make you able to keep up with a group that would otherwise drop you. Just buy what you want and decide for yourself if it's worth it after you have some km's on the gear yourself. The beauty of the internet is that you can find stuff used and sell it if you don't like it.

[Hermes_Alex]

These guys boiled the answer down pretty effectively last year, as far as carbon wheels go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdC3mrHcc8

[tuscanyswe]

These guys boiled the answer down pretty effectively last year, as far as carbon wheels go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdC3mrHcc8

dont really care much for those pseudo scientific research tests. Esp not when they seem like a big commercial for the manufacturer of the tested product.

[benb]

Real world benefit they can look super cool if the rider also looks the part. It's really easy to scoff at a middle aged guy 50lb overweight on a carbon bike with carbon wheels though.

Still the biggest thing that keeps me from considering them is braking performance. You always here folks here saying the right combo of wheels, calipers, and pads makes them stop OK but my real world experience is group riding and seeing guys with various carbon wheels have scary moments where they clearly have inferior braking performance. Not an uncommon experience for me to be in a group and something happens and the group needs to stop quickly (car pulls out) and the group separates into the guys on alloy wheels who stop quickly and the guys on carbon wheels who have to dodge all the alloy wheel riders cause they can't stop in the same distance. One group ride this summer we were on a ~40mph descent and a car pulled out of us.. all the guys on the alloy wheels stopped 50ft shy of the car, one of the guys on carbon stopped 3ft shy of the trunk of the car, and he was not in the front of the group. Scary stuff.

Dura Ace has no safety implications over 105 or Ultegra AFAICT. (Note I have no bikes with D/A or Record level components anyway)

[Hermes_Alex]

dont really care much for those pseudo scientific research tests. Esp not when they seem like a big commercial for the manufacturer of the tested product.

Well, the thread was asking about real-life benefits, and this was a bit more concerned with that question than the usual drag charts.

[spartanKid]

I can feel the ease the lighter carbon wheels accelerates with and how nimble they feel at lower speeds.

That's almost entirely placebo. The rotating weight thing is absolutely a myth.

Neglecting air resistance, for an 80 kg rider, accelerating from 10 mph to 20 mph in ten seconds, on a 2000 g wheelset vs a 1000 g wheelset, is a difference of 267 W vs 255 W.

This is of course neglecting air resistance.

[ripvanrando]

dont really care much for those pseudo scientific research tests. Esp not when they seem like a big commercial for the manufacturer of the tested product.

I don't use Zipp but I have a couple of 3-6 minutes stretches of road that I use all the time for intervals. My times are much faster using the aero carbon wheels. I thought the video was compelling.

I am always amused to see a top of the line bike, grouppo, and carbon hoops adorned with Gatorskins.

http://flocycling.blogspot.com/2016/04/flo-cycling-a2-wind-tunnel-tire-study.html

[tuscanyswe]

That's almost entirely placebo. The rotating weight thing is absolutely a myth.

Neglecting air resistance, for an 80 kg rider, accelerating from 10 mph to 20 mph in ten seconds, on a 2000 g wheelset vs a 1000 g wheelset, is a difference of 267 W vs 255 W.

This is of course neglecting air resistance.

Almost entirely placebo? You realize that almost all things related to cycling is almost placebo right?

Even when put into math its 15 or so watts for 10seconds and i do about 200 of those per day or something? It ads up. One thing i know is that they feel very different in a city environment than they do on the open road for me.

Id find it more likely for me to find the placebo effect on the open road at higher speed where i know they have a theoretical advantage but i dont.

[sandyrs]

one of the guys on carbon stopped 3ft shy of the trunk of the car, and he was not in the front of the group. Scary stuff.


I have no way of knowing whether or not this applied to the rider in question (or what wheels he was on) but decent carbon wheels can bring a rider who knows how to use the brakes on a bicycle correctly to a stop or skid easily. If you don't distribute your weight correctly when pulling the front brake, you won't stop as quickly, period. While carbon and alloy braking surfaces obviously do not behave identically, there is more to stopping well than rim material.

[sandyrs]

I am always amused to see a top of the line bike, grouppo, and carbon hoops adorned with Gatorskins.

I try not to be judgmental but this always gets me too. Nothing wrong with gatorskins per se, but putting them on a bike otherwise built around speed probably negates all of the benefits of the rest of the setup combined!

[benb]

Almost entirely placebo? You realize that almost all things related to cycling is almost placebo right?

Even when put into math its 15 or so watts for 10seconds and i do about 200 of those per day or something? It ads up. One thing i know is that they feel very different in a city environment than they do on the open road for me.

Id find it more likely for me to find the placebo effect on the open road at higher speed where i know they have a theoretical advantage but i dont.

He was talking about a 1000g weight difference in the wheels to get that 15w difference. What's the actual typical difference between high end alloy clinchers and most of the aero carbon offerings? It's not 1000g. If you go for the climbing specific super light carbon tubulars then you're losing some of the weight difference.

[rando]

Oh goodie!! I just knew the third page was finally going to see the aero truthers assume their defensive positions.

http://i.imgur.com/IwpdHIs.gif

[benb]

I have no way of knowing whether or not this applied to the rider in question (or what wheels he was on) but decent carbon wheels can bring a rider who knows how to use the brakes on a bicycle correctly to a stop or skid easily. If you don't distribute your weight correctly when pulling the front brake, you won't stop as quickly, period. While carbon and alloy braking surfaces obviously do not behave identically, there is more to stopping well than rim material.

For sure there are lots of things going on. I know how to stop well, lots of MTB and motorcycling experience. So that guy could have had poor technique. He could have not taken the time to get the right pads for his carbon rims. He could have had carbon rims that weren't as good as other carbon rims. All I'm saying is IRL my experience has been observing quite a few of these close calls. Enough to influence me away from spending an extra $1000 to get the carbon rims instead of the aluminum ones.

[ripvanrando]

I try not to be judgmental but this always gets me too. Nothing wrong with gatorskins per se, but putting them on a bike otherwise built around speed probably negates all of the benefits of the rest of the setup combined!

I agree. I try not to judge. Just because they are slow and painfully uncomfortable does not necessarily mean the owner is too lazy to fix a flat once in a while.

[ripvanrando]

I recently rode cross country with carbon front rims and aluminum rims on the rear. TRP 957 brakes. Mfg required pads up front on the carbon rims with Kool Stops on the rear. I found that the front carbon rims braked better in the rain in the mountains. I wondered why. I wondered if the rims were so hot that the rain just sizzled off them.

[tuscanyswe]

He was talking about a 1000g weight difference in the wheels to get that 15w difference. What's the actual typical difference between high end alloy clinchers and most of the aero carbon offerings? It's not 1000g. If you go for the climbing specific super light carbon tubulars then you're losing some of the weight difference.

My regular all day open pro standard wheels with city rubber vs my corima 32s tubes currently on the bike is likely around 800g difference or so.

Im saying all cycling related is more or less placebo.
Im saying i feel a larger difference on light carbon rims in the city than i do the aero effect on open roads. The difference may be bigger on the open road where the aero effects take place but I'm not picking up on that while I'm riding to the same degree.
Im saying there is no need to worry about durability for riding carbon tubies or clinchers in the city if you have a nice reliable set up to begin with.

[ripvanrando]

True that the extra speed can't be felt.

I was shocked to bag a couple KOMs on segments that I had ridden scores of times. With good tires that are narrower than the rim by around 5%, there is a speed benefit. Won't help my sorry ass up Ventoux or Galibier any faster for sure.

[FlashUNC]

These threads really are the best.

[flydhest]

Isn't 10 seconds a long time to get to 20 mph?

[benb]

My regular all day open pro standard wheels with city rubber vs my corima 32s tubes currently on the bike is likely around 800g difference or so.



Right maybe for your wheels. But there are alloy clinchers under $1000 that are within 200-300g of your Corimas and stuff at around $1100 that is closer to 150g difference.

Your corimas with 23s or 25s are probably 1000g lighter than the cheap Tiagra/Alex wheelset on my gravel bike with 38c file tread tires but that's a silly comparison.

[weisan]

That's almost entirely placebo. The rotating weight thing is absolutely a myth.

Neglecting air resistance, for an 80 kg rider, accelerating from 10 mph to 20 mph in ten seconds, on a 2000 g wheelset vs a 1000 g wheelset, is a difference of 267 W vs 255 W.

This is of course neglecting air resistance.

Spartan pal, you are absolutely right.

http://www.bicycling.com/sites/bicycling.com/files/zabel.jpg

[tuscanyswe]

Right maybe for your wheels. But there are alloy clinchers under $1000 that are within 200-300g of your Corimas and stuff at around $1100 that is closer to 150g difference.

Your corimas with 23s or 25s are probably 1000g lighter than the cheap Tiagra/Alex wheelset on my gravel bike with 38c file tread tires but that's a silly comparison.

I would think most ppl who ride in the city would have a similar wheelset as the one in my example. They weigh in close to 1800g. Campy hubs with open pros 32 spokes 3x. A very good and common wheelset. At least thats what most ppl around here ride in the city. Ad in skewers and heavier tires / tubes and the weight diff is there.

My corimas are really light but my point still stands.
I FEEL a larger difference in nice wheels in the city than i do on the open roads.
So to compare that to one of my carbon wheels dont seem to be silly at all from my point of view its pretty much exactly what the OP wanted opinions about the way i read his post.

[false_Aest]

If you like creaky wheels with a really limited lifespan, buy em. Otherwise save your dinero. Aero is the only benefit, plan on them lasting less than 5000 miles

I call bull****.

5000 miles means that I'm halfway through the lifespan of my new Boyds.
5000 miles means that on my highest-mileage years I'm going through 2.25 sets of wheels.
5000 miles means that clydesdales or those that do a lot of descending (this guy) would be out of a set of wheels even faster.

Creaking? BAH!

Hed, Bontrager, Reynolds, 2 sets of Boyds and Enve/Edge. I have yet to have a creak emanate from any CF hoops I've ridden. Bad quick releases, not lubing the skewer, improperly clamping the wheel in, valve rattling -- yeah. That's not the fault of the hoop though.

[drewskey]

200+\- miles a week of shotty intown Atlanta roads.

Brave soul right here riding in Atlanta.

[vqdriver]

wow. thought it was a simple question, just wanted to know what to expect from these when i satisfy the curiosity and buy a set.
i assumed that carbon wheels are established enough that they weren't so polarizing anymore.

let's focus on the braking then. all the other stuff, weight, "speed", sound, i can decide for myself if it's for me, but the braking is a function that just absolutely needs to be there. are we at the point that standard rim brakes (with whatever recommended pads) will work reasonably well? riding in populated areas, there can be lots of surprises some days.

[FlashUNC]

wow. thought it was a simple question, just wanted to know what to expect from these when i satisfy the curiosity and buy a set.
i assumed that carbon wheels are established enough that they weren't so polarizing anymore.

let's focus on the braking then. all the other stuff, weight, "speed", sound, i can decide for myself if it's for me, but the braking is a function that just absolutely needs to be there. are we at the point that standard rim brakes (with whatever recommended pads) will work reasonably well? riding in populated areas, there can be lots of surprises some days.

Fwiw, my Hyperons brake slightly worse than my Shamals, but it ain't by much. Still on par with a lot of alloy rims I've ridden, and that's down some rather funky descents here in the East Bay.

[tuscanyswe]

Many carbon rims still struggle when wet. In dry breaking is a non issue on carbon rims imo

[Hermes_Alex]

Yeah, braking when it's wet is something that has been improved upon but still isnt great - I get the impression that the proportion of people who actually ride in the rain is smaller than is supposed. In normal conditions, most don't bite quite as strongly as aluminum, but the power on tap is totally adequate, especially with newer models.

[carpediemracing]

let's focus on the braking then. all the other stuff, weight, "speed", sound, i can decide for myself if it's for me, but the braking is a function that just absolutely needs to be there. are we at the point that standard rim brakes (with whatever recommended pads) will work reasonably well? riding in populated areas, there can be lots of surprises some days.

I didn't weigh in on the previous stuff.

For braking the carbon rims I've used in the rain (Reynolds DV46 and Stinger 6) have been fine. There's an initial moment of nothing and then a lot of braking power. In fact when I was on aluminum rims I had two 100% panic moments on steep downhills in the rain where I was 100% on the brake levers and the bike wasn't slowing. It wasn't accelerating, it just wasn't slowing. Like being in a car sliding 5 mph on ice.

With carbon rims I'd drag the front brake regularly in the wet to keep them sort of primed if you will. I avoided using the rear brake because usually I was in a race and I didn't want people behind me to think I was braking.

My car used to be like that also. It had big brakes, aluminum center "hat" with steel rotors, grooved and cross drilled. They cooled down really well, I could brake really hard multiple times from higher speeds without any problems. Problem was that the rotors cooled too well in regular use. In the wet or in the cold I actually manually dragged the brakes when I could (so I'd lightly ride the brakes if it was clear behind me). In the rain the brake dragging made a huge difference, it would take maybe half a second of pressure before the brakes started to bite, with the "brake dragging" it would bite right away.

Koolstop salmon pads on carbon.

I don't even change pads between aluminum and carbon, haven't since 2010 or so. In 2008-2009 I had carbon clinchers and tubulars so no pad changes anyway, and before that I didn't change pads, was using carbon brake track tubulars since 1995? whenever Zipp 340s/440s came out.

[rando]

I recently rode cross country with carbon front rims and aluminum rims on the rear.

I for one have no interest in the low speed travails of a four wheeled recumbent rider. Failing a long winded explanation I'll conclude their was irreducible logic used in every other specification from stem to stern.

http://www.recumbentjournal.com/images/stories/news/2011-06/week-in-news/win-061111-fourwheeler.jpg


I wondered if the rims were so hot that the rain just sizzled off them.

Yes, that is most likely the part of this exaggerated tale you most embellished.

[ripvanrando]

II for one have no interest in the low speed travails of a four wheeled recumbent rider. Failing a long winded explanation I'll conclude their was irreducible logic used in every other specification from stem to stern.

http://www.recumbentjournal.com/images/stories/news/2011-06/week-in-news/win-061111-fourwheeler.jpg




Yes, that is most likely the part of this exaggerated tale you most embellished.
Maybe I need another latte on my break from today's ride because I don't understand what you are saying. I'm telling you that in the rain on high speed descents during the Transam bike race that my carbon rim braked better in the rain than the aluminum rimmed rear. Here is a photo at the top of a pass in Colorado where it rained on the descent that I took at more than forty mph. As you can see the front rim is carbon

[Waldo]

As I age and get fatter and slower, lightweight and aerodynamic carbon wheels allow me to chase my younger, fitter self. And my 40mm carbon Fulcrums seem to be worth up to 0.5mph of average speed on a three-hour ride, though some have suggested that I try harder while riding these wheels, which is OK too.

[summilux]

Fwiw, my Hyperons brake slightly worse than my Shamals, but it ain't by much.

But Hyperon braking gives you that "Coming out of lightspeed" sound that cannot be duplicated elsewhere

[Mark McM]

They're fast. Borrow a pair or test out some loaners from your LBS. There will likely be naysayers around here but I suggest you make your own opinion.

I'm 5500 miles in on a pair if Chinese carbon clinchers. 200+\- miles a week of shotty intown Atlanta roads. When I ride other wheels, I miss my carbons. I'm a roadie racer with a 15# bike.

I have a friend who is convinced that his new ceramic bearing bottom bracket makes him 2 mph faster. When I try to tell him that drag in all the bearings combined adds up to maybe 1% of the total drag (so even if all his bearings had zero drag he'd only go a fraction of a mph faster), he just won't hear of it. He knows those ceramic bearings make him faster, and that's all there is to it.

[rando]

I
Maybe I need another latte on my break from today's ride because I don't understand what you are saying. I'm telling you that in the rain on high speed descents during the Transam bike race that my carbon rim braked better in the rain than the aluminum rimmed rear. Here is a photo at the top of a pass in Colorado where it rained on the descent that I took at more than forty mph. As you can see the front rim is carbon

I'll play along like it's funnier if you have to explain it.

- 'rims' denoting multiple front and rear
- unposted but captioned photos claimed to be taken at a high rate of speed on a challenging descent. In the rain no less!
- seemingly unaware of the differences in stopping power between front and rear brakes. Particularly where said forces are even heavier in favor of the front brake (hint: going downhill)

[Mark McM]

As with anything else, there are pros and cons to carbon wheels. In particular, due to their different manufacturing processes, it is easier to produce carbon rims in aerodynamically efficient shapes than aluminum rims, and also to produce those shapes at a lighter weight. That has to balanced with their higher cost, less consistent braking, and greater tendency for heat sensitivity (particularly for carbon clinchers.

I do have a set of carbon/aluminum Flo 60 wheels, and here's is my use for them:

I'm still actively racing my bike, but now that I'm in my 50s I'm having a little more trouble keeping up with the younger guys. On the other hand, at this stage in life I have a little more earning power than some younger guys, so I can afford some more expensive wheels (although Flo wheels are on the inexpensive end for carbon wheels). I'm certain that the Flo wheels are faster than traditional aluminum rim wheels would be in the type of racing I do (primarily criteriums), but not by much. It is a matter of incremental improvement, and is only a small portion of the increment improvements I use.

Years ago, I raced on a steel framed bike with traditional wheels. In addition to the afore mentioned aero wheels, I now also race with aero frame bike (which even has aero drop bars), use low rolling resistance tires which have been matched to the aerowheels (Flo did a study of the best tires for their wheels), I use aero water bottles, and wear an aero road helmet and skinsuit. It is true that all of these add only marginal improvements. But when all of these things are added together, I figure I get a speed gain of about 1/2 to 2/3 of a mph (and the skinsuit and helmet are probably most of that).

When I'm not racing, I still ride a traditional steel bike with traditional aluminum rim wheels, with traditional bottles, etc. Do I notice the performance loss? Not really; I'm sure its there, but its small enough to not notice without a stop watch (or other competing racers). However, the traditional equipment does tend to be more practical for everyday riding.

[ripvanrando]

I'll play along like it's funnier if you have to explain it.

- 'rims' denoting multiple front and rear
- unposted but captioned photos claimed to be taken at a high rate of speed on a challenging descent. In the rain no less!
- seemingly unaware of the differences in stopping power between front and rear brakes. Particularly where said forces are even heavier in favor of the front brake (hint: going downhill)

You call me a liar (a slow one at that) and now you correct my grammar and make some more wild assumptions about how I determined the braking force was better on the carbon rims vs. aluminum rims. I noticed some grammatical errors on your post but let them slide.

You seemingly are unaware that the stopping power differential between front and rear is due to weight over the front wheel and the ease with which a real wheel can lock up is due to that weight shift. In heavy rain neither wheel can be locked on my rig, so, braking force comparison is only related to the forces at the rim and not whether the tires lock up. I could squeeze as hard and as long as I wished on the rear brake and the braking force was rather moderate but there was no way it was going to lock up. The front brake on the carbon rim would have an initial momentary take up (unless it had been used recently and I presume the heat buildup) and then the braking force was very good.....not quite as good as in the dry but darned good. Carbon rims get very hot to the point you will get burned if touch them after hard braking.

I have no idea why the picture did not post but you misconstrue the intend of the picture, it was to show a carbon rim front and aluminum rear. I thought this was what you wanted to see.

Since you are also a Randonneur and obviously a very fast one, lets met up. I had a goal of doing my full series in less than 50% of the allowed time but am finding I need a partner to do the 600K in under 20 hours. What do you say? I could use help and would be more than willing to help you out.

Others have also said carbon braking is pretty good in the rain. You can choose to believe or not.

Let me know if you want to do that 600K together.

[FlashUNC]

But Hyperon braking gives you that "Coming out of lightspeed" sound that cannot be duplicated elsewhere

The Boras are wayyyy better at that.

[false_Aest]

In before the lock.

[sg8357]

Why Carbon rims ?

Carbon rims are poor with rim brakes,
so you need disc brakes, cable discs are as bad
as cantilevers, so you need hydro discs,
the hydro mechanical shifters are clunky and uncomfortable,
so you need a electronic group with hydro shifting, your
frame isn't setup for disc brakes & electronic, so you need a new frame.

That is why carbon rims are the greatest thing in the cycling industry.

[weisan]

Looks like I will be jumping into the fray of carbon wheels pretty soon. A buddy that I ride with in our group rides had just upgraded his wife's bike with a new set of carbon wheels so he is offering her older set of Reynolds Assault for me to try them out. Will report back.

[rustychisel]

Looks like I will be jumping into the fray of carbon wheels pretty soon. A buddy that I ride with in our group rides had just upgraded his wife's bike with a new set of carbon wheels so he is offering her older set of Reynolds Assault for me to try them out. Will report back.

Yes, report back if you survive the experience... ;)

[sokyroadie]

I bought a like new new set of SLG Reynolds 32's tubular with basically new Vittoria high $$ tires for $500.00 from a forumite. The wheels weigh around 1150g - In my mind they transformed the ride of the Ti Serotta that I put them on. The bike just feels much quicker and livelier.

I have had several other sets of carbon tubulars and clinchers, some deeper and some shallower - I much prefer the shallower, lighter ones - YMMV.

Jeff

[oldpotatoe]

I have a friend who is convinced that his new ceramic bearing bottom bracket makes him 2 mph faster. When I try to tell him that drag in all the bearings combined adds up to maybe 1% of the total drag (so even if all his bearings had zero drag he'd only go a fraction of a mph faster), he just won't hear of it. He knows those ceramic bearings make him faster, and that's all there is to it.

We had a customer who was second or third at a local grand fondo..he came in and asked for a complete ceramic upgrade..BB, hubs, even pulleys, cuz he said he would have won if he had ceramic bearings..true story..we did and took his $..and replaced the pulleys after one wet ride.

[ripvanrando]

Older carbon rim resins had rather low TG (glass transition temperatures) and could "melt" under prolonged braking. Probably everyone knows but alternating front and then rear braking giving a few seconds "rest" can lower rim temperatures by 100F. I know that I have burned myself touching carbon rims that were heated from braking. Depending upon the resin, TG can be over 400F. Zipp measured 700F at the braking surface during simulated (extreme) testing.

I suspect these elevated temperatures during rainy, technical descents explains my observation that my Flo carbon rim braked much better than my HED aluminum rim with Kool Stop Salmon pads.

To those who doubt the performance advantage of using aero wheels with good tires, all I can say is my times have improved. I have gone from really slow to slow.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/02/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-hot-tires-rims-oman_361634

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/05/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-carbon-rims-vs-car-exhaust-short-vs-long-braking_286605

[sirskialot22]

Not to hijac the thread, but how about durability, specifically for disc wheel applications where brake track is not relevant? I've had quite a few dings and dents in my 450g aluminum "wider" 18-21mm ID, 30mm deep rims from a few different manufacturers, and am thinking carbon wheels may be a bit more durable here. Sure, it's likely that my tire pressure was too low when taking my cross bike in places it had no business going, but any thoughts one whether carbon rims are more durable than aluminum rims?
"

[oldpotatoe]

Not to hijac the thread, but how about durability, specifically for disc wheel applications where brake track is not relevant? I've had quite a few dings and dents in my 450g aluminum "wider" 18-21mm ID, 30mm deep rims from a few different manufacturers, and am thinking carbon wheels may be a bit more durable here. Sure, it's likely that my tire pressure was too low when taking my cross bike in places it had no business going, but any thoughts one whether carbon rims are more durable than aluminum rims?
"

They 'can' be but if you hit something hard enough, the carbon 'lip' will break/crush/splinter rather than bend(tubeless? No mas air in tire). Not going to fix that easily(at all?)..where there's a chance you can bend a aluminum sidewall around a little bit.

[dem]

I'm 3800 miles into abusing the living heck out of a set of light-bicycle carbon rims. They have 100s of chips scratches and dings, but nothing that looks more than cosmetic.

This is probably an example of the worst (I believe this was acquired when I had 60+ creek crossings to do, and I got tired of getting off the bike.. so I just ended up bombing into huge rocky creeks and seeing how far I could get!)