Black Berthoud saddle dye bleeding

[sfhbike]

I've ridden on my Berthoud Aravis for about 600 miles now and it shows no signs of letting up with the dye bleeding. I know to some degree this is normal with leather saddles, but I believe this is far beyond what is typical. I don't know if this is a "feature" of Berthoud's natural dyes or whether I have an exceptionally bad batch of dye on my saddle. I never had this issue with a black Brooks Team Pro saddle I owned.

Because I commute on this bike, I have to wear shorts and change at work, or put a t-shirt or cover over the saddle. Anyone have advice (besides cover it, wear shorts, live with it or other sarcastic remarks) on how to expedite this process, make it stop, clean it off, etc.? I'd like to be able to commute without turning my clothing black. I love this saddle and its really a bummer.

Last night, I took some Gliptone ph balanced leather soap to it. I then wiped it clean; it took off a little dye and left it dull, as if the top shiny layer had long worn off. I then applied more Berthoud saddle treatment, but noticed that it really caused the dye to start coming off again, so I washed everything off again and am going to leave the saddle dry for a while and see what happens. Any treatments just seem to take dye off.

I should mention that prior to this, the only treatment I applied was the Berthoud saddle treatment underside and top when I first opened the box (with a little bit of hair dryer to help it absorb into the leather). I followed that with a layer of Nikwax aqueous wax leather waterproofing, which if you watch this production video at minute 8:55 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0OeHK6sVEw#t=08m55s), is exactly what they apply as a final treatment/sealant. (I've used the same method with my Brooks saddles and proofide and it works great.)

Here's a pic of my light colored shorts after a week of riding in them, maybe 4-5 13-mile round trip commutes. No rain (SoCal in the summer and a drought). Minimal sweat since I'm wearing shorts on top of wool underwear and the commute is only 6.5 miles max each way:
https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8276/29069781555_f720aee79a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LhNehg)

[fiamme red]

I have no suggestions other than black shorts. I've ridden my Berthoud in light-colored pants, but only for short distances.

[sfhbike]

I have no suggestions other than black shorts. I've ridden my Berthoud in light-colored pants, but only for short distances.

Did you have any issues for short distances? How many miles?

[R3awak3n]

I wish I could be of help as I have a berthoud, but I do not own any light colored shorts or pants.

[Tickdoc]

My Berthoud is light and my shorts are dark as well.

Vinegar perhaps? I know it sets Dye in cloth, not sure if it would work on leather.

Have you reached out to Berthoud?

[fiamme red]

Did you have any issues for short distances? How many miles?I've only ridden up to about two or three miles on it at a time in regular clothes, and have never had any dye run off on my pants.

Maybe the Berthoud saddle conditioner is what is staining your shorts?

[merckx]

Shout it out. Really.

I would also consider purchasing a tan-coloured Berty, and punt the black one.

[Hilltopperny]

I've only ridden up to about two or three miles on it at a time in regular clothes, and have never had any dye run off on my pants.

Maybe the Berthoud saddle conditioner is what is staining your shorts?
This! I have never treated my Berthoud saddle and have never had an issue with bleeding. I ride it with regular and cycling specific clothing. I was under the impression that these saddles are pre treated and I didn't need a saddle conditioner for mine.

[charliedid]

I'd scrub it (really well) with saddle soap or that ph soap you mentioned and leave it alone for a few weeks or more and just ride it. Search Resoleing or something like that. We used it in a leather class I took t seal the edge of a belt dyed black.

[ripvanrando]

My tan Berthoud bleeds but I have so many different oils and fats on it that who knows. I don't use the factory approved oils. If I wear a pair of casual tan shorts for a little spin down to the ice cream store, the seats of the shorts get dirty. I am not sure if my B17 does the same. I just wear my black cycling shorts now to avoid that stain. I never clean the saddle so I would expect there to be a ton of grunge ground into the leather.

[sfhbike]

Have you reached out to Berthoud?

I've emailed them through their site last week, but no response yet. I also emailed my seller (French canadian distributor of GB saddles) who claims he talked to Berthoud recently and was told this was normal (the literature that came with the saddle does expressly say it will bleed on light clothing, but this seems over the top to me).

Maybe the Berthoud saddle conditioner is what is staining your shorts?

Well, the conditioner itself is long gone from the surface. I do think it played a role in lifting dye from the saddle though. The staining is definitely black dye not an oily stain.

Shout it out. Really.

Ha, for a second I thought you meant to Shout out my saddle. Glad I didn't try that. I have indeed been getting the stains out of any pants/shorts with Shout.

This! I have never treated my Berthoud saddle and have never had an issue with bleeding. I ride it with regular and cycling specific clothing. I was under the impression that these saddles are pre treated and I didn't need a saddle conditioner for mine.

It's black? All leather saddles should be treated occasionally to restore/protect. I think an untreated saddle will dry out and crack over time if not treated once a year or so depending on conditions. This is especially true when you are stressing the leather during break in to get it to stretch out (you want to get the fibers to stretch rather than tear into shape). I think during the tanning process lots of oils are removed. GB applies a light waterproof coat (as in the video I linked to above), but they don't treat the saddle. That is why they provide their proprietary saddle goop. But I do think these treatments are not playing well with their dye, which might explain why you aren't seeing any bleeding and I am. I might have overdone it on my first treatment.

I'd scrub it (really well) with saddle soap or that ph soap you mentioned and leave it alone for a few weeks or more and just ride it. Search Resoleing or something like that. We used it in a leather class I took t seal the edge of a belt dyed black.

Yes, I've been reading about Resolene, Tan Cote, and similar acrylic top coats that are sometimes used to seal leather (horse saddles, holsters, etc.). If all else fails and this thing keeps bleeding after months of riding, I plan to go that route.

I did do the leather wash this weekend and I thought it was helping slightly since less seemed to come off when buffing (I can literally buff for 15 minutes at a time and it will just keep coming off, to the point that I feel like I'll eventually rub all the color off). I thought it might have improved, but here is a pic of a white t-shirt that I rode on as a saddle cover for just 13 miles around town yesterday. This was after several of the PH-neutral leather soap washes and then dried for about 18 hours or so before riding :help::
https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8172/29190798332_976d0a505e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Ltutmq)

[Hilltopperny]

Mine is a black galibier, but I've only had it for about a year. I have multiple other leather saddles that I treat regularly, but when I purchased the Berthoud I thought I read that it was pre treated and not to proof hide or treat right away. I have multiple bikes and the Berthoud has roughly 1,000 miles on it, so I haven't experienced any long term stretching or drying out yet. It also stays in the house when not being ridden.

[sfhbike]

Mine is a black galibier, but I've only had it for about a year. I have multiple other leather saddles that I treat regularly, but when I purchased the Berthoud I thought I read that it was pre treated and not to proof hide or treat right away. I have multiple bikes and the Berthoud has roughly 1,000 miles on it, so I haven't experienced any long term stretching or drying out yet. It also stays in the house when not being ridden.

Hmm. I know there was a strong warning not to "oil" their saddles. But I think they meant not to use oil-based products, only their saddle wax. I'll look at the instructions when I get home and post them up to (can't find any copies online).

[charliedid]

I think you are on the right track. I'd wash it again in a day or two. I think reapplying the dressing is just pulling the dye out but I believe you came that conclusion already. 🤓

[verbs4us]

Let me know when the problem becomes intolerable and I'll be happy to take the saddle off your hands ;)

[sfhbike]

Let me know when the problem becomes intolerable and I'll be happy to take the saddle off your hands ;)

$200 takes it! Not a bad price for Ti Aravis partially broken in.

It's a beauty, but I'll be happy when this stage of break in is over.

[sfhbike]

Buffed the saddle a bunch more tonight. But the surface is matte, almost waxy, and I can't get it to buff to a shine at all (if I run my hand or a cloth over it, I can see a faint "smudge"). It just keeps giving off tons of dye rather than buffing. Its almost like it has tons of greasy saddle treatment on it, but it hasn't had any product applied to it since multiple washes with that soap. I'm not sure what to make of this because that aspect is relatively new. Could it be the Gliptone soap? "Glycerin enriched, pH balanced to the pH of fine leather. Cleans safely and thoroughly. Restores the natural beauty and resiliency of leather without removing the natural oils. Preserves strength and durability."

Just going to leave it alone and ride for a few more days...

These are the instructions that came in the box with my saddle. They explicitly warn about light colored clothing, against "oil-based" treatments, etc:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8306/29331019865_bf3191a786_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LFT9k4)Berthoud Saddle Instructions (https://flic.kr/p/LFT9k4)

[velofinds]

I've learned the hard way that any sort of riding - even light commuting or errand-running - in light-colored trousers or shorts is generally inadvisable as I find that they will eventually stain despite precautionary measures. To me, it's just not worth it. But if you absolutely must do it, then I've had decent experience with the Brooks Cambium in Natural. (Slate may also be okay, though I can't speak from personal experience.)

[sfhbike]

Latest saddle experiments: The Gliptone leather cleaner stuff seemed to leave too much conditioner or residue on the saddle, which seemed to only aggravate the situation and felt like the surface of the saddle was never fully dry and would not buff to a shine.

I went back to the drawing board and pulled out some Kiwi saddle soap. Lots more dye came off than with the Gliptone soap as I washed, and I could see some areas with lighter discoloration where the top layer of dye was mostly gone (I don't care at this point since I just want to get the thing to stop bleeding). I kept wiping it until very little dye was coming off. It also dried much more nicely than the Gliptone with more of a normal smooth dry surface that didn't feel waxy or tacky (like how the saddle is when new).

Then to seal it and protect it again, I gave it a Sno Seal treatment with lots of hair dryer and several layers of Sno Seal until it wouldn't absorb anymore (per the instructions). I chose Sno Seal because it is only beeswax with a carrier solvent that evaporates off after application; no oils or conditioners that might soften the saddle or lift the dye--it was made to protect leather mountaineering boots *without* softening them and that seems similar to what I want for my saddle. I then let it dry overnight. In the morning I buffed off the Sno Seal, very little dye came off with the wax, but after that nothing.

We'll see how it deals with normal riding conditions, sweat, etc. But I'm hopeful I at least expedited the process a bit.