Wash Your Bottles!

[oddsaabs]

And here's why: http://www.treadmillreviews.net/water-bottle-germs-revealed/

[cmbicycles]

Its a seemingly alarming study until you see the last paragraph of how they tested them. I'm sure if I didn't wash my bottles after a week of use (they don't specify how frequent the use was) they would be pretty gross... nothing outside of common sense here except that certain containers are more prone to collect germs.

[CNY rider]

Based on this and the other junk that poses for science on these inter webs it's an absolute miracle that any of us are still alive.
And yet we are.

[dzxc]

tbh I don't wash my bottles too often, especially if I'm just using water in them and not a sports drink, so for me at least the testing is accurate. Maybe I'm just atypical and gross though.

[saab2000]

Every ride.

I'm still a knuckle dragging curmudgeon who neither owns nor knows how to operate a dish washer. They just get washed with the rest of my dishes.

Would anyone reuse plates or bowls?

Didn't think so. :D

[regularguy412]

Based on this and the other junk that poses for science on these inter webs it's an absolute miracle that any of us are still alive.
And yet we are.

The human body is an amazing thing.

But per the findings in the article, I use my bottles only ONCE and then they get a 3 hour bath in the dishwasher with the bleach-filled soapy hot water.

This method has worked for me for many years.

Just gotta have enough bottles to go with for a few days at a time.

Mike in AR:beer:

[ripvanrando]

How did I make it across country with unwashed, yucky bottles. I never felt better and I was a filthy thing.

If they had speciated the "germs", they would have found that they matched the saliva of the host's mouth. Isn't a water bottle a bit of a closed system?

I'm generally more concerned about what the gram negatives on my hands but I also take probiotics and eat a lot of cultured foodsm, so, the bad actors have a lot of competition.

We are all just one big germ. Isn't that where mitochondria came from...?

[bicycletricycle]

I use my bottle every day, don't wash it that often, I only put water in it. I'm sure it's crawling with little buddies. I don't think my bottle is making me sick because I would be permanently sick.

I feel fine.

[bicycletricycle]

I would re use a plate that just got water on it.


Every ride.

I'm still a knuckle dragging curmudgeon who neither owns nor knows how to operate a dish washer. They just get washed with the rest of my dishes.

Would anyone reuse plates or bowls?

Didn't think so. :D

[Dead Man]

Yea, I was already pretty sure my bottles were covered in bacteria. I assume that's where the odor comes from

[Joxster]

If there's nothing growing in the bottle, it gets a quick rinse and used. If there's something growing it gets a rinse and scoosh with hot water and then used, any chewy bits get spat out. The same thing happens with my camelback

[sokyroadie]

If there's nothing growing in the bottle, it gets a quick rinse and used. If there's something growing it gets a rinse and scoosh with hot water and then used, any chewy bits get spat out. The same thing happens with my camelback

+100
The same procedure I use:banana:

Jeff

[cmbicycles]

I would re use a plate that just got water on it.



Would you reuse the plate if you had licked the water off it? ;)

[bicycletricycle]

Would you reuse the plate if you had licked the water off it? ;)

probably. my mouth is full of my saliva, im not afraid of it.

[ripvanrando]

Every ride.


Would anyone reuse plates or bowls?

Didn't think so. :D

I just came back from a ride and my bottles won't be washed.

I took left over salmon out from the fridge and ate off the dirty plate.

I'm reusing the plate for my sauerkraut that I am sure is teaming with germs.

I take the health of my gut very seriously.

[soulspinner]

I just came back from a ride and my bottles won't be washed.

I took left over salmon out from the fridge and ate off the dirty plate.

I'm reusing the plate for my sauerkraut that I am sure is teaming with germs.

I take the health of my gut very seriously.

:eek:

[F150]

Just returned from a ride with son, and at the halfway mark topped off our bottles. He noted a bunch of crap in the bottom of his; no such crud in mine (both Camelback Podium Chill if that matters). He routinely empties/rinses at tap/dries, I do not. Perhaps its the residual chlorine from the tap water that helps keep mine free of critters. I also don't slobber all over the spout, habit learned from years of MTB riding on trails shared with horses. Prefer to squirt from a wee distance.

I'm with Rip, 5 1/2 weeks riding in the Rockies and didn't wash my bottle once. Still standing 30 yrs later.

[regularguy412]

I just came back from a ride and my bottles won't be washed.

I took left over salmon out from the fridge and ate off the dirty plate.

I'm reusing the plate for my sauerkraut that I am sure is teaming with germs.

I take the health of my gut very seriously.

The sauerkraut has its own set of probiotics. So it may be a +/- thing where the kraut is helping to defeat the 'baddies'.

Mike in AR:beer :)

[ripvanrando]

:eek:

I'm much more concerned with chlorinated water, antibiotic contaminated meat, contaminated food at restaurants than the flora from my mouth. I might wash my bottles once per week.

The healthy gut is somewhat like the turf at a good golf course, the weeds (bad germs) have no chance. Antibiotics or chlorine will not only destroy that balance but can impact your overall physical and mental health.

[ripvanrando]

The sauerkraut has its own set of probiotics. So it may be a +/- thing where the kraut is helping to defeat the 'baddies'.

Mike in AR:beer :)

Maybe.

I've the had the "germs" in my stools speciated. No baddies in there.

:D

[bcroslin]

I love the camelback bottles but the first thing I do is pull the blue membrane out of the jet valve on top and that way I can rinse the valve out easily. Do that and no more mold.

[Tickdoc]

I wash mine on the top rack of the dishwasher after every ride. I'm no germaphobe But I don't like seeing mold in bottles.

I do feel that we are too clean in general, and that it is affecting our gut.

I'm a say no to hand sanitizer guy, despite my wife's disapproval.

Just got back from Italy and noticed in general it is a gluten rich diet full of fresh fruit and vegetables, combined with old meats. The health of the average person there was markedly better than the slubs I see living around me.

[Joxster]

Just got back from Italy and noticed in general it is a gluten rich diet full of fresh fruit and vegetables, combined with old meats. The health of the average person there was markedly better than the slubs I see living around me.

Best diet around, the Mediterranean diet. Loads of meat, salads, cheese, wine, coffee and cigarettes. They all live to about 200 and not a mobility scooter insight.

[purpurite]

My wife always says, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger."









My response always is, "what if it kills you?"


Our bodies develop antibodies to most nasty things on our hands and mouths. After having kids, and watching the things they touch, I'm not fretting much about the stuff on my water bottles. The kids aren't dead or sick, and I see where they put their hands, so whatever. The sky isn't falling and we're not all dying of bacterial infections.

Throw the bottles in the dishwasher after every use or two, soak them in a 5-gallon bucket of water with a 1/4 cup of bleach in it every couple of months, and then buy 3 or 4 new bottles every year. They are disposable, so I don't worry about them too much.

Geesh, let's find more things to make everyone worry about. I think there needs to be clickbait warnings now on every internet article. Or we should just shut the computers off and go riding more.

[kevinvc]

I rinse mine out every few days if I'm just using water. Just a quick rinse and hand wipe the mouthpiece. They get put in the dishwasher if I use energy drink. If they start looking like a petri dish (why the stupid dimples on Polar bottles?!) I'll use a denture cleaner tablet.

Honestly, I'd be more concerned about leaching chemicals from them if I ran them in a hot dishwasher too often, but that's just my personal non-science backed opinion. One of these days I'll probably switch to stainless steel.

[numbskull]

Humans have been eating bacteria for millions of years. We are "designed" for it. Indeed evidence is developing that the increased incidence of some modern illnesses (such as asthma and other allergies) is related to insufficient microbial exposure as children brought on by too much hygiene.

[Seramount]

Humans have been eating bacteria for millions of years. We are "designed" for it. Indeed evidence is developing that the increased incidence of some modern illnesses (such as asthma and other allergies) is related to insufficient microbial exposure as children brought on by too much hygiene.

my mother was a clean-fanatic...she loved her bleach and rubber gloves.

may explain why both my sis and I were severe asthmatics as kids.

I'm pretty casual about bottles, will throw them in the DW once every 3 months or so...not really worried about 'germs'...

[yarg]

I only use water not sports drinks and have never washed a bottle in 30 years of riding. I only rinse before I fill, not a problem .

[jmal]

Depends on the water where you live. I never used to do any more than rinse and occasionally wash in the dishwasher. My current water supply is alive with mold. The toilet will begin to grow mold in a couple of days. On a ride today I noticed my bottle had mold in it and I had just pulled it from the dishwasher, and it only sees water.

[Joxster]

Depends on the water where you live. I never used to do any more than rinse and occasionally wash in the dishwasher. My current water supply is alive with mold. The toilet will begin to grow mold in a couple of days. On a ride today I noticed my bottle had mold in it and I had just pulled it from the dishwasher, and it only sees water.

Moldy water?? Where the hell do you live? How do you have Internet and electricity?? Is that banjos we hear in the background :eek: :eek:

[Cicli]

Depends on the water where you live. I never used to do any more than rinse and occasionally wash in the dishwasher. My current water supply is alive with mold. The toilet will begin to grow mold in a couple of days. On a ride today I noticed my bottle had mold in it and I had just pulled it from the dishwasher, and it only sees water.

Michigan?
Nevermind, that was lead.

[F150]

Depends on the water where you live. I never used to do any more than rinse and occasionally wash in the dishwasher. My current water supply is alive with mold. The toilet will begin to grow mold in a couple of days. On a ride today I noticed my bottle had mold in it and I had just pulled it from the dishwasher, and it only sees water.

Unlikely, even if you are on well water (unless your septic field is over the well; yes, it happens). Sounds like you have a moisture problem, not a potable water supply problem. Propane heat? Water in crawl space? Bath exhaust fans exhausting outdoors or into attic? Gutters clogged, downspouts not directing water away from foundation? Wood siding not adequately sealed or painted? All of these can contribute to very unhealthy indoor air quality conditions. Sorry, environmental engineer by day.

Now's as good a time as any to figure it out.

[Seramount]

Depends on the water where you live. I never used to do any more than rinse and occasionally wash in the dishwasher. My current water supply is alive with mold. The toilet will begin to grow mold in a couple of days. On a ride today I noticed my bottle had mold in it and I had just pulled it from the dishwasher, and it only sees water.

this is interesting to me as I work for a state regulatory agency in the public drinking water section.

water that is 'alive with mold' is not something that is a common complaint.

mold is a fungus, water supplies are typically concerned with bacterial contamination...

please elaborate...

[Jaq]

On a related note. A lawyer doing a study for Yale worked with some researchers on reusable bags. The went to San Fran and test random bags. 20 percent had E. coli. So you use recyclables and run the risk. You wash the. And then you've just used the resources you were supposed to save. By using reusable bags. The also found that, after eliminating other causes, reusable a were responsible for something like 15 deaths in 2011. That makes reusable bags officially a serial killer.

[jmal]

Unlikely, even if you are on well water (unless your septic field is over the well; yes, it happens). Sounds like you have a moisture problem, not a potable water supply problem. Propane heat? Water in crawl space? Bath exhaust fans exhausting outdoors or into attic? Gutters clogged, downspouts not directing water away from foundation? Wood siding not adequately sealed or painted? All of these can contribute to very unhealthy indoor air quality conditions. Sorry, environmental engineer by day.

Now's as good a time as any to figure it out.

I live in a "luxury" apartment, but everyone in town has the same issues. Friends with houses and in other apartments all experience the same problem.

[jmal]

this is interesting to me as I work for a state regulatory agency in the public drinking water section.

water that is 'alive with mold' is not something that is a common complaint.

mold is a fungus, water supplies are typically concerned with bacterial contamination...

please elaborate...

I'm not sure I can elaborate. Mold may be the incorrect term, but it is definitely fungus. Toilets, showers, sinks, the cat's water bowl--they all grow stuff very quickly. As mentioned above, this is not unique to my place. Everyone has the same experience here. It doesn't seem to be a health concern though. I've only been here a few years, but I know many that have live here for decades with no apparent ill consequences.

[Joxster]

Is it an atmospheric thing??? Do you use aircon? Put two samples out one indoor and one outdoor and see which one turns first, that might give a clue to where to start looking

[ripvanrando]

Public water supplies in my state are not tested for mold.

I'd like to understand why not.

[dustyrider]

I hope no one ever looks closely at a toothbrush...:eek:

[unterhausen]

Public water supplies in my state are not tested for mold.

I'd like to understand why not.

the mafia is dumping industrial waste into your groundwater, I doubt that mold is your biggest problem

[Seramount]

Public water supplies in my state are not tested for mold. I'd like to understand why not.

as I mentioned in a previous post, I'm a compliance officer in the public drinking water section for a state regulatory agency and a former certified mold remediation specialist, so maybe I can help answer your Q...

state DW programs typically follow regulations of the federal Safe Drinking Water Act. water is tested for a variety of contaminants (microorganism, inorganics, organics, radionuclides, disinfection by-products, etc etc.) at various stages of the source approval process and also once online as active supply points.

bottom line is, there is a cost/benefit factor for what constituents are tested for and how often the testing occurs.

once approved sources are delivering water to a public water system, the first-line of defense for public health is testing for coliform bacteria. total coliform are ubiquitous in the environment and cause no harm to humans. they are simply used as an 'indicator' of water quality. if none are found, the water is considered safe to consume. if total coliform are detected, a secondary analysis for the specific pathogenic organism E. coli is performed.

depending on circumstances, a source with positive coliform results indicates the possibility for an acute health risk and a need for additional disinfection and possibly a boil water notice.

other contaminants tend to be chronic health risks...drinking water with elevated inorganic content may take years or decades to produce an effect, so testing is done at much less frequent intervals.

costs are a MAJOR consideration in testing.

private well owners frequently contact our office saying they want to have their water tested...when asked 'tested for what?,' they reply 'EVERYTHING'...um, ok. a full suite of analyses for herbicides, pesticides, gasoline-range organics, dioxins, etc etc can easily cost several thousand dollars.

in comparison, coliform bacteria sampling is easily performed by water system operators and lab testing is ~$20-30.

as far as mold...the most common route of exposure to mold spores is via inhalation, not ingestion. back in the days of the Great Mold Scare, I inspected numerous residences that were infested with various types of mold growth (including the dreaded killer black mold - Stachybotrys). however, not everyone has a sensitivity to mold. many occupants reported NO health problems, even with entire walls covered in black mold. it's like allergies, exposure to various pollens may or may not produce a response.

there are ~100K types of mold, and lab methods to detect them vary widely, so, without definitive health protection benefits, the costs to test would be seriously burdensome to water systems.

so, this is getting way too long and isn't touching on all kinds of issues involved in testing procedures, but hopefully it helps explain a few things.

[cinema]

I don't even wash the pan i use to make eggs every morning, just add some more oil and fry it up. The worst thing I ever got, however, was mono from a shared water bottle.

In general I'm super liberal about surface cleanliness. Every time I walk down the aisle of ralphs, where they have those little candy vats that you pull the lever on, I check the grates for gummy worms and eat them straight out of there. Absolutely filthy. I think it comes from working food service as a youngin, I eventually began to accept that most things aren't clean and no one thinks twice, and yet here we are.

[ripvanrando]

the mafia is dumping industrial waste into your groundwater, I doubt that mold is your biggest problem

I have problems. Lots of problems.

:help:

[F150]

Jmal,

Sorry you are having this issue. The "luxury" apartment, assuming hi-rise, may have a central HVAC system that is contributing to the issues you experience. Of course, all the locations you mention (showers, toilets, cat's water bowl) all have the necessary ingredients for mold growth (air, moisture, nutrients); I just doubt it is coming thru the potable water system. Human and pet dander, drywall paper, wallpaper glue = all-you-can-eat buffet. I don't wish to lessen your opinion of your cat, so just leave your coffee travel mug (no sugar, no creamer) with a little coffee remaining sitting to the side of your desk for a week then pop the top. You may be surprised to find mold, but you shouldn't. Mold is ubiquitous...I'd be more concerned with Legionella (bacteria) in larger ventilation systems and water supplies with lots of dead ends, opportunities for stagnant water.

If you knew how many mold spores are floating around outdoors, you'd never leave the house. And as Seramount indicated, there are but a handful of molds that are known to cause adverse reactions in certain individuals.

[dpk501]

just soak it in vodka:beer:

[F150]

Public water supplies in my state are not tested for mold.

I'd like to understand why not.

Lots of assumptions here, but:

Inhalation volume while riding: 2 liters/breath
Breaths per minute: 30 bpm
Assumed outdoor spore count: 2500 spores/cubic meter
Inhaled spores per hour of riding: 2x30x60x2500/1000L/cm = 9,000 spores

How many of these spores you then expire during exhalation, I dunno. But I'd say a sizable number would likely make it past the hairs in the nasal passages and remain in the lungs. Safe to say we've all inhaled quite a few mold spores this season, and (hopefully) we're all still standing. Again, only certain molds have been shown to have an adverse health effect on certain individuals. I've been in a room black with Stachybotrys and had a reaction that felt like being in an Andre the Giant choke hold. Left the room and 5 minutes later felt no ill effect. A less than empirical answer to your "why not" question.

In comparison, the Maximum Contaminant Level Goal for coliform bacteria in drinking water is zero (0) counts per liter. Lead action level is 15 parts per billion. These are contaminants with documented health effects for all humans.

I don't know what might constitute a median value for mold spores per liter of water, perhaps Seramount does. I think you'd drown yourself first before you could ingest 9,000 mold spores from a public water supply. The chlorine used to control bacteria also controls molds.

BTW, 6 liters is a lethal dose of water for 50% of 165 lb humans (LD50). Hydrate (with caution!)

[batman1425]

CFU/area and gram stain (positive/negative/rod/cocci, etc) data alone are not predictive of risk. Your gut has trillions of bacteria in it, Gram positive, negative, rods, bacilli, cocci, spirochetes, coccobacili, etc. In otherwise healthy people, the VAST majority are not what we call pathogens - or things that can make you sick. If they were, fecal microbial transplants wouldn't be an option. You have to frame the context of the sample to assess risk.

Like in the food industry where CFU/area is used to inspect areas that are regularly used to processes/prepare raw proteins (chicken, beef, pork, etc). Materials that almost ubiquitously contain pathogenic organisms at loads high enough to make you sick - raw chicken, beef, etc. Any bacterial contamination on those surfaces has a high likelihood of originating from a dangerous source - so general CFU/area is a good indication of: "hey we should really clean those surfaces".

Lets apply that logic to water bottles. It was clean when you started using it. The water you put in it was potable and probably came from a clean municipal source, a filter in your fridge, etc. You're the only one drinking from it. So the majority of the bugs in there are from the water, and your mouth. Neither of which made you sick to begin with. Is there a chance that something that could make you sick snuck in there between washes AND grew to a high enough concentration to make you sick? Sure, but its a low risk. Especially if just used for water and set out to dry in between uses. Bacteria don't grow well in plain water and really don't like dry surfaces. Sugary drink - yea, probably should wash it, or at least rinse it out well with hot water. Is it a good idea to clean bottles regularly? Yep. I toss them in the dishwasher after a ride and grab a couple new ones the next ride to avoid accumulating a big pile of dirty ones. Have I gone a week or more using the same bottle? Yep, and I'm still here.

These are largely scare tactics that use BS science frequently to push "antimicrobial" products on consumers - which in my opinion, pose a much greater risk to the public than reusing your water bottle.

[batman1425]

In comparison, the Maximum Contaminant Level Goal for coliform bacteria in drinking water is zero (0) counts per liter. Lead action level is 15 parts per billion. These are contaminants with documented health effects for all humans.)

Coliforms are used in screening because they are an indicator organism for waste water contamination in the drinking supply. Even water with a zero coliform count is NOT sterile, I assure you. Plenty of otherwise harmeless bacteria in there.

[F150]

Agreed re: sterile. No more than any water being marketed as "pure". Just a layman's attempt to reassure Rip that there are bigger and badder things in our natural environment than a few mold spores (viable or not).

Coworker just lost his father-in-law after a failed fecal transplant. Terrible way to go.

Bugs can be your friend...

[Dead Man]

Coworker just lost his father-in-law after a failed fecal transplant. Terrible way to go.

Bugs can be your friend...

Hopefully not because of the fecal transplant?

[F150]

Hopefully not because of the fecal transplant?

Correct, his passing was NOT due to the transplant effort. The transplant was intended to reestablish the gastrointestinal bacteria lost following prescribed antibiotic, as I understand it.