If y'all can complain about bike shops...

[Ti Designs]

I can complain about customers.

To be honest, I don't have that much to complain about, 'cept that they wait 'til the last minute. This weekend was the PMC - the world's largest charity ride, so I spent last week fitting people and working out problems before the ride. I had a police officer come in with a broken arm in a cast, wanting to do just the first and last 20 miles of the ride. We worked on getting his body weight on the pedals, then I modified a set of jammer bars (short aero bars that match the angle of his wrist in the cast) so he could cruise along without any weight on his hands. That was the first fitting I've done on someone wearing a gun... Anyway, the guy is tough as nails, it wouldn't surprise me if he rode the whole thing.

I got home on Friday night around 9:00pm thinking the PMC madness had ended. Then I hear from a guy I don't really know, who is affiliated with the Harvard cycling team, who was checking his bike before the big event and found the dropout on his Serotta was broken, as in not attached to the chainstay. He insists on bringing the bike over. He had asked around and I seem to have this reputation to be able to fix anything in my machine shop. I could do nothing to fix his broken frame, so I tried a little humor - "you see sonny, your frame is only mostly dead", which failed. He seemed to think that since he had raised $20K it should be an emergency on my part. Then he asked "what size is this bike?" pointing at my Serotta. I should have said no, but I'm not very good at that, so I spent the next few hours changing the fit of my bike to fit him.

We never discussed payment of any sort. What's that sort of thing worth? A pro level bike rental would be $300 for the weekend, to say nothing for the late night fitting services. I expect him to come to my shop when it's time to replace the bike - Wednesday morning??? Probably not, Belmont isn't the closest bike shop to him... Maybe he could return my bike right after the event - that would be nice. It's Monday morning, in an hour I get to coach a hill climbing session on my Tarmac which has a low gear of 44x21. My own fault for lending out my Serotta. It just seems odd, he knew how to get to my house on Friday night...

His only comment on social media about the whole thing was about his "replacement bike" being twitchy and only having 9 gears.

[rileystylee]

He sounds like a right :butt:

There seems to be a whole new generation of entitled, pushy, arrogant, narcissistic people out there these days.
What a cheek .
I bet he doesn't even say thanks.

[soulspinner]

He sounds like a right :butt:

There seems to be a whole new generation of entitled, pushy, arrogant, narcissistic people out there these days.
What a cheek .
I bet he doesn't even say thanks.

Its everywhere. The bums rush in need, when I get what I want see ya.

[numbskull]

You did the right thing, that's what counts.

That you are not getting any recognition for it is unfortunate........but pretty much the whole philosophy these fundraising rides work on. The guy soliciting the donations and doing the ride becomes the hero, the people footing the bill not so much.

[kittytrail]

isn't a customer someone who *pays* you for goods and/or service? :D

[oldpotatoe]

I can complain about customers.

To be honest, I don't have that much to complain about, 'cept that they wait 'til the last minute. This weekend was the PMC - the world's largest charity ride, so I spent last week fitting people and working out problems before the ride. I had a police officer come in with a broken arm in a cast, wanting to do just the first and last 20 miles of the ride. We worked on getting his body weight on the pedals, then I modified a set of jammer bars (short aero bars that match the angle of his wrist in the cast) so he could cruise along without any weight on his hands. That was the first fitting I've done on someone wearing a gun... Anyway, the guy is tough as nails, it wouldn't surprise me if he rode the whole thing.

I got home on Friday night around 9:00pm thinking the PMC madness had ended. Then I hear from a guy I don't really know, who is affiliated with the Harvard cycling team, who was checking his bike before the big event and found the dropout on his Serotta was broken, as in not attached to the chainstay. He insists on bringing the bike over. He had asked around and I seem to have this reputation to be able to fix anything in my machine shop. I could do nothing to fix his broken frame, so I tried a little humor - "you see sonny, your frame is only mostly dead", which failed. He seemed to think that since he had raised $20K it should be an emergency on my part. Then he asked "what size is this bike?" pointing at my Serotta. I should have said no, but I'm not very good at that, so I spent the next few hours changing the fit of my bike to fit him.

We never discussed payment of any sort. What's that sort of thing worth? A pro level bike rental would be $300 for the weekend, to say nothing for the late night fitting services. I expect him to come to my shop when it's time to replace the bike - Wednesday morning??? Probably not, Belmont isn't the closest bike shop to him... Maybe he could return my bike right after the event - that would be nice. It's Monday morning, in an hour I get to coach a hill climbing session on my Tarmac which has a low gear of 44x21. My own fault for lending out my Serotta. It just seems odd, he knew how to get to my house on Friday night...

His only comment on social media about the whole thing was about his "replacement bike" being twitchy and only having 9 gears.

Social media is a powerful thing. You can easily call him the butt-nugget he is w/o calling him a butt-nugget.

[Peter P.]

I hate to be cold, but it's your own fault for not standing up to the pushy guy.

But I think you already know that.

In hindsight, you could have billed his credit card for the "rental" and promised a refund if he returned the bike on Monday or somehow arranged a rental credit for the replacement of his broken Serotta.

Here's hoping you get your Serotta back in the same condition you lent it...

[weisan]

Ti pal may appear stubborn, even self-righteous at times but he's soft and mushy inside.

You did what you did because of who you are not because of who came knocking on your door at night.

You have done your part, now leave the rest to.....

[AngryScientist]

i would have charged him $100 bucks, run a pass over that dropout with a mig welder and wished him luck.

[numbskull]

Of course if the guy returns your bike later today with a sincere thank you and a gift certificate to a nice restaurant the whole tone of this thread could change.

[Ti Designs]

i would have charged him $100 bucks, run a pass over that dropout with a mig welder and wished him luck.

I thought about it, but I can't pretend to do the job. I have the Arc welder, I have the argon tank, I even have titanium weld rod left over from a Wald style basket I once made for a customer's Merlin Newsboy. It would mean tearing down the bike, setting something up to shield the weld and flood the area with argon, welding the dropout ( haven't welded anything in well over a year), built the bike back up - and it would still fail.


I hate to be cold, but it's your own fault for not standing up to the pushy guy.

But I think you already know that.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No!

Just practicing...


The thing is, for every 10 entitled schmucks, there's that one person who gets it. To say "it's not my job" would exclude them to, which is the last thing I want to do.

[CampyorBust]

You went above and beyond the call of duty. The guy sounds like a Class A HBS weener schnitzel, I envision him as sockless in boat shoes and wearing seersucker shorts spewing all kinds of passive aggressive zingers with a poop eating grin on his face? Or maybe the type to fly to Dubai for tea and crumpets on daddy’s jet for the weekend. Sorry I just met fella just like this a little while ago saw him going for a KOM on Memorial drive on Sunday, no way in hell I would give him my bike especially late at night.

[chiasticon]

"you see sonny, your frame is only mostly dead"WELL DONE! :hello:

[tuxbailey]

This is for a good cause! /s

:)

[ripvanrando]

He was affiliated with the Harvard Cycling Team.

Would you have lent your Serotta to a Beaver or Jumbo?

In any case you are very generous.

[cmbicycles]

"you see sonny, your frame is only mostly dead"

Did you make him a chocolate covered magic pill or use the bellowscram?

[raygunner]

He was affiliated with the Harvard Cycling Team.


...and he only has ONE bike?!

I don't even know why Harvard even bothers to show up!

[beeatnik]

Harvard Cycling Team...haha.

[raygunner]

http://cdn1.bostonmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/simpsons1.jpg

[Ti Designs]

The problem with movie humor is that there are still a few people who haven't seen The Princess Bride. I was at a bike show where they had name tags - the ones that say "Hello, my name is" on the top. I wrote Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die! Some guy called security...

[guido]

I went into Belmont Wheelworks on Saturday to get a Jagwire in-line brake cable adjuster. No other shop closer to me had one in stock. I got a few extra bits and pieces to make it slightly more worth my time to drive 40 minutes into to town. Service was efficient and friendly. It's good to know you guys are there when we need you.

[sparky33]

Geez this is tough one...
charity ride entitlement and such is whole lot easier to tolerate when I see the mountains of money and crowds of people it brings to an important cause. Cheers to those who do the thankless work behind the scenes that makes this possible.

46+mm (http://www.pmc.org/) is a big number.

[jghall]

Guess I'd probably wait to see if he does you right. Maybe he'll mention something on social after the fact.

While you had every right to say no, or charge the guy, even overcharge the guy, being a charity event you committed like kind(charity). So hat's off to you.

[kittytrail]

Guess I'd probably wait to see if he does you right. Maybe he'll mention something on social after the fact.

he already did: "twitchy and only 9 gears". sounds like great endorsement to me, wiggly-metal-tubed frame and 7700 Dura-Ace make for a great bike! :cool:

[Climb01742]

This raises a fundamentally question about acts of kindness. Let's say you hold a door open for someone, or let another car go ahead of you in traffic...and the other person doesn't say thank you or give a little wave? Too often, I get pissed by the non-thank you, then I try to remember: was I being kind to be kind or to get a thank you? Not saying that kindness should not to acknowledged -- how hard is it to say thanks? -- but the important thing is, you were kind. The universe noticed even if the dude didn't.:rolleyes:

[FlashUNC]

This raises a fundamentally question about acts of kindness. Let's say you hold a door open for someone, or let another car go ahead of you in traffic...and the other person doesn't say thank you or give a little wave? Too often, I get pissed by the non-thank you, then I try to remember: was I being kind to be kind or to get a thank you? Not saying that kindness should not to acknowledged -- how hard is it to say thanks? -- but the important thing is, you were kind. The universe noticed even if the dude didn't.:rolleyes:

Worst case, there's always posting the story on a forum to get the validation one is so thirsty for.

[weisan]

The problem with movie humor is that there are still a few people who haven't seen The Princess Bride. I was at a bike show where they had name tags - the ones that say "Hello, my name is" on the top. I wrote Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die! Some guy called security...

Ti pal, I don't think they necessarily have a problem with your name or the tagline or the fact that you were trying to be humorous... It's only after they read it and look up again at your face, that they realized you are not kidding!

[Corso]

Pan Mass vet here. Great event, so feel good about what you did.

BUT…I would not have leant him your bike. How did his problem become yours?

If he was a friend, I could see it. But yeah, you have to live with that good deed you did right there...

[Ti Designs]

This raises a fundamentally question about acts of kindness. Let's say you hold a door open for someone, or let another car go ahead of you in traffic...and the other person doesn't say thank you or give a little wave? Too often, I get pissed by the non-thank you, then I try to remember: was I being kind to be kind or to get a thank you? Not saying that kindness should not to acknowledged -- how hard is it to say thanks? -- but the important thing is, you were kind. The universe noticed even if the dude didn't.:rolleyes:

It's not about the lending him the bike or the time it took to switch my bike to his position. I got very little sleep that night, worked a 9 hour shift the next day and felt tired the whole time, but I said very little about it 'cept when it comes time to replace the bike, he had better be shopping at Belmont. We had one agreement - he was to bring the bike back as soon as the PMC was over. I was pretty clear about needing the bike on Monday morning. I don't have the bike, haven't heard from him...

When you hold the door for someone, you don't expect them to slam the door shut behind them.

[Schmed]

I think you did the right thing and I would have probably done the same, in hopes that my good dead would have been appreciated.

So, you didn't get the appreciation you deserve, and there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. Which is nice.

[deechee]

I think you're crazy. I would never lend my Serotta to someone I don't know. But I understand. My LBS owner constantly has his personal bike in pieces in the shop because someone "NEEDS" a D/A crank or whatever. He'll just take his and lend it to a customer. Kudos to you.

I really hope the guy returns your bike asap. Otherwise I'd be calling the organizers and whoever recommended you to this guy and call the police. Maybe he's already on his way home. What a *.

[ColonelJLloyd]

No good deed. . . .

Sonofa. . . .

[Tickdoc]

Oh hell no. Never would I think he could ride mine. Nope. Pick one off the rack, dude. I'll fit you to it, but not mine.

[sparky33]

I was pretty clear about needing the bike on Monday morning. I don't have the bike, haven't heard from him...

That's pretty bad.

It's not like the PMC doesn't make it easy to get riders and bikes back home after the event. Really, at the end of the ride, a happy volunteer congratulates you and takes your bike and puts it on the return truck while you get some delicious food with friends. Bikes will be ready and waiting for pickup back at the start whenever riders come around to retrieve them. It could not be easier.

[Joel]

Not bringing the bike back immediately is really tacky.

There are those rare customers who need to be fired.

This may be one...

After you get your bike back!

[raygunner]

Can you swing a bag of doorknobs?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoQZrmUCMAEdzxe.jpg

[CampyorBust]

Can you swing a bag of doorknobs?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoQZrmUCMAEdzxe.jpg

That almost looks like it says something it doesn't, we wouldnt want that now? This one is much better...

http://static.tvfanatic.com/images/gallery/homer-the-vigilante-picture_250x200.jpg

OP seize the day and get your bike back! Hunt the weener down!

[bcroslin]

What a douche

There's several big triathlons throughout the year here in St Pete with St Anthony's being one of the biggest in the country and an Ironman qualifier. I make sure I have everything bike related sorted the week before St Anthony's because every triathlete a$$ clown waits till the last minute to bring their urine crusted bikes in because their bottom brackets are seized or some such other issue related to them not maintaining their bike. There's been times at my LBS where you can't even get to the service dept because of the bikes stacked up waiting to be serviced a few days before an event. There are dudes who will casually walk in the day before and get pissy because the service guys tell them they'll never get to their bike in time.

Bike shop mechanics don't get enough credit.

[batman1425]

I don't get it. When I was riding/racing with my college/graduate school cycling teams - if this happened to me or one of ours, there would be 10+ friends/teammates with bikes, frames, whatever you need in hours to help get them sorted. Folks would lend HT 29er's to roadies that wanted to try a MTB race weekend, pass aero wheels and kit around to the A's going to nationals for the TTT, hook someone up with a frame if they crashed theirs so they could keep racing for the season till they could start their summer jobs and make some cash for a replacement. I gave my cross bike to one of my teammates to use as a pit bike for cross nationals - he needed it too (horrible conditions), and ended up snapping the chain on mine! He replaced the chain, reset it to my fit, washed it up and gave me a 6-pack of beer. Because that's what teammates do for each other.

The fact that none of his "friends" on the harvard cycling club stepped up to help him speaks to why he had to come to your shop to beg and frames the behaivor you observed. Unfortunate that you had to deal with this guy - and I give you a lot of credit for not laughing in his face and showing him the door.

[redir]

He sounds like a right :butt:

There seems to be a whole new generation of entitled, pushy, arrogant, narcissistic people out there these days.
What a cheek .
I bet he doesn't even say thanks.

I'm not so sure the newest generation has a monopoly over those personality traits ;)

[mosca]

Bike shop mechanics don't get enough credit.
It seems like this goes here:

Bicycle Repair Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01xasUtlvw

[572cv]

Loaning the bike is one thing. An act of generosity.

Not returning someone elses' bike is another thing, at some point. Theft.

Perhaps he could be invited to donate to a charity of your choice, as a way to make amends.

You are good peeps. We're glad you are on the paceline.

[raygunner]

This wouldn't of happened if you were dealing with a Yalie.

[Ti Designs]

I don't get it. When I was riding/racing with my college/graduate school cycling teams - if this happened to me or one of ours, there would be 10+ friends/teammates with bikes, frames, whatever you need in hours to help get them sorted. Folks would lend HT 29er's to roadies that wanted to try a MTB race weekend, pass aero wheels and kit around to the A's going to nationals for the TTT, hook someone up with a frame if they crashed theirs so they could keep racing for the season till they could start their summer jobs and make some cash for a replacement. I gave my cross bike to one of my teammates to use as a pit bike for cross nationals - he needed it too (horrible conditions), and ended up snapping the chain on mine! He replaced the chain, reset it to my fit, washed it up and gave me a 6-pack of beer. Because that's what teammates do for each other.

The fact that none of his "friends" on the harvard cycling club stepped up to help him speaks to why he had to come to your shop to beg and frames the behaivor you observed. Unfortunate that you had to deal with this guy - and I give you a lot of credit for not laughing in his face and showing him the door.

What you describe is part of being on a team. When our women's team captain had her bike stolen, she had a number of bikes offered to her so she could continue to race. This guy isn't on the team, he's "affiliated" with the team, and he didn't come to my shop, he came to me for a reason. i have different skill sets than most people, keeping track of day to day details is beyond me, but building a jig to straighten a 7mm thick titanium dropout using a port-a-power ram is something could have done in my sleep. When people run into problems they can't otherwise solve, they come to my machine shop. He had a broken titanium dropout, less than 7 hours before the start of the PMC.

He's Harvard faculty, I spend a lot of time fighting with Harvard on behalf of the cycling team. Having more people on my side is to my advantage, so I did what I could to help him.

[sitzmark]

What you describe is part of being on a team. When our women's team captain had her bike stolen, she had a number of bikes offered to her so she could continue to race. This guy isn't on the team, he's "affiliated" with the team, and he didn't come to my shop, he came to me for a reason. i have different skill sets than most people, keeping track of day to day details is beyond me, but building a jig to straighten a 7mm thick titanium dropout using a port-a-power ram is something could have done in my sleep. When people run into problems they can't otherwise solve, they come to my machine shop. He had a broken titanium dropout, less than 7 hours before the start of the PMC.

He's Harvard faculty, I spend a lot of time fighting with Harvard on behalf of the cycling team. Having more people on my side is to my advantage, so I did what I could to help him.

He does recognize there is a quid pro quo for your generosity - yes?
Yes. One is expected and you should press with the same level of assertiveness as did he until the debt is repaid.

Congrats for doing your part for a very worthy cause.

[bikingshearer]

. . . The guy sounds like a Class A HBS weener schnitzel . . .

To be fair, the Law School produces its share of douche nozzles, too.

[dziehr]

You're a generous soul. Can't say I know the guilty presence, but I'll be keeping an eye out. That's some gall.

When it comes to cycling requests, "Do you think you could just . . .?" are dangerous first words.

[PeregrineA1]

First class dou*he.

I broke my MTB two days before an inaugural and epic local event in Raleigh. I was new to the area, but had been riding with the local group/club. There was also a fairly active local forum. I reached out on the forum to see if there was a bike available-no Turner parts available within the time frame. A complete stranger offered his back-up bike.

It fit and worked in the parking lot prior to the race. Within a mile of the start I had broken the chain and repaired it twice. At mile ~20, about as far from the start as one can get, the chain broke again and took the RD with it. I walked and hitch-hiked back to the start. Returned the bike with some cash, went home and ordered the parts for direct delivery to his home. Everyone happy.

Anything else....what this person has done... is unacceptable.

[gemship]

Wow Ti I just can't believe you would lend your bike.

Well you're generous and really kinda awesome for doing that. I mean your heart is in the right place but you are right you probably should of listened to and obeyed your inner voice.

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I hope it all works out and this fella appreciates your help.

[numbskull]

Seeing as you are so generous would you mind if I borrow your legs for D2R2?

[Ti Designs]

Seeing as you are so generous would you mind if I borrow your legs for D2R2?

I'll need them back by Monday...

[54ny77]

it's unfortunate that the $36 billion tax-free endowment couldn't help the guy out.

[Peter P.]

It's after 5:30PM on Monday and you STILL don't have your bike back?!

I can't wait to hear the end of this story. Please don't tell us your bike is gone forever.

[tuxbailey]

Do you have his address? Why not call him and drop by his door?

[paredown]

FWIW, I still hate the guy who "borrowed" one of our Campy wheels at the Arboretum Crit in Seattle in about 1973 (?'74) to stay in the race and did not return it after the race.

We were so broke trying to race back then I can remember killing myself for primes where they were giving away tires, never mind if it was actual cash--point being, the wheel was an important part of our kit, and there was no money to replace it.

I think the feeling is that we expect better from our fellow-cyclists, because so many of them are good folks, and then we're unreasonably disappointed when one turns out to be more like the average jerk.

[AngryScientist]

wait, you meant THIS monday?

[cmbicycles]

Show up at his class with a big pedal wrench, start shouting "hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you took my bicycle, prepare to..." but based on his earlier lack of humor you might end up with some 'splanin to do'

[Schmed]

I once leant one guy a clipless pedal and a different guy a wheel at the Leadville 100 (at about mile 45, where I was spectating).

- pedal guy tracked me down via some email list, got my address, sent me 4 pairs of the same pedal, all brand new. He was a Cannondale marketing guy.

- wheel guy found my truck at a hotel that night, left the wheel and a nice thank you note

I hope you get a similar level of appreciation.

[Ti Designs]

It's after 5:30PM on Monday and you STILL don't have your bike back?!

I can't wait to hear the end of this story. Please don't tell us your bike is gone forever.

When he needed help it was very important - he had raised over $20K for the cause, the world was counting on him to ride (not really). The need to get the bike back clearly didn't seem that important [to him].

This is in stark contrast to the other time I loaned out on of my bikes for a charity ride this year. A good customer wanted to do a charity ride on a tandem with a blind stoker who happened to be 5" taller and 40 pounds heavier. He needed something really stable, and I own a Ritchey Skyliner tandem - the easiest tandem to learn on. The first trip around the block was a little sketchy, but they learned how to ride the tandem and they finished the ride in style. Before the PMC, I needed to make some major changes to a customers bike, which they couldn't afford. Michael picked up the tab, no questions asked. For some people, what goes around comes around. Not so much for others...

I know a lot of people in the cycling community, I know he finished the ride, I know the bike was transported back, I have a pretty good idea who has my bike right now. That he couldn't be bothered to bring the bike back is his own problem, I can't imagine he has many friends.

[unterhausen]

sometimes you are better off if certain people are not your customer. Hope you get your bike back soon

[fuzzalow]

When he needed help it was very important - he had raised over $20K for the cause, the world was counting on him to ride (not really). The need to get the bike back clearly didn't seem that important [to him].

Well, use him for what he's good for, his importance clearly evidenced by his contacts with money. ;)

I know a lot of people in the cycling community, I know he finished the ride, I know the bike was transported back, I have a pretty good idea who has my bike right now. That he couldn't be bothered to bring the bike back is his own problem, I can't imagine he has many friends.

I have no way of knowing how his friendships reside. And neither do you. Sometimes guys like that don't do much in the way of friends but lotsa time & effort spent networking, runnin' in the right crowd and maintaining all the right appearances. Always needs a burn rate to match 'cos subtlety is for losers. Nuthin' wrong with livin' like that. Not for me though - I think you lose control of your life when you start thinkin' about what everybody else thinks.

He'll bring the bike back. He lost track because he's driven to go on the the next thing already. He, as an abstraction, probably appreciated what you had done in that very moment but that was then and he doesn't need you now. But from my perspective guys like this are useful - you just gotta know who and for what for.

[Schmed]

Sounds to me like the definition of a narcissist. No good relationship can come from that (aside from the monetary part that Fuzz implied!)

Well, use him for what he's good for, his importance clearly evidenced by his contacts with money. ;)



I have no way of knowing how his friendships reside. And neither do you. Sometimes guys like that don't do much in the way of friends but lotsa time & effort spent networking, runnin' in the right crowd and maintaining all the right appearances. Always needs a burn rate to match 'cos subtlety is for losers. Nuthin' wrong with livin' like that. Not for me though - I think you lose control of your life when you start thinkin' about what everybody else thinks.

He'll bring the bike back. He lost track because he's driven to go on the the next thing already. He, as an abstraction, probably appreciated what you had done in that very moment but that was then and he doesn't need you now. But from my perspective guys like this are useful - you just gotta know who and for what for.

[beeatnik]

The East Coast is so weird.

[sitzmark]

When he needed help it was very important - he had raised over $20K for the cause, the world was counting on him to ride (not really). The need to get the bike back clearly didn't seem that important [to him].

Context means a lot here. You've already indicated he approached you via a connection with HCT and not the shop.

So either he approached you on a personal level as a fellow Harvard cycling team "affiliate"/supporter, throwing himself on your mercy in his emergency (and you capitulated out of the goodness of your heart) OR

he approached you as a customer of your independent business and pressured/demanded a repair to his bike that had monetary value if you successfully provided a fix. You did not provide a fix, but you did provide a solution. Therefore, (re)payment is due for your services.

Lots of shades of grey, but it boils down to one of those two basic scenarios. At least your interpretation of why you turned over your personal bike in the transaction.

If you did it as a personal favor, it is not unreasonable to ask for one in return. Don't be afraid to ask him for (and expect) an equally generous effort when you need help with a Harvard team issue. If you perceived him as a customer - DO NOT hesitate to send him an invoice for bicycle rental. He may never pay, but the message will be clear.

[weisan]

The East Coast is so weird.

No, mate...the ENTIRE WORLD is so weird. :rolleyes::D

[Tickdoc]

The East Coast is so weird.

No kidding.

So sorry to see you w/out your bike right now. It's not like you loaned out a base level trek. Geez, I would think at the very least some "from one serotta owner to another" decency would prevail.

I would be combing the city trying to get you bike back to you, and have at least a sixer of ipa hanging from the top tube for such a Generous loan.

Good on you for your generosity, we need more of that, but this d'bag needs to hold up his end and quick.

I hope to see an update soon with a happy ending here. It's not even my bike and I've been pissed about this all day.:crap:

[54ny77]

Oh yeah? I've got two words for you (or maybe it's one word ?): Thorfinn-Sassquatch!

http://images.cyclingtips.com/content/uploads/2016/03/Screen-Shot-2016-03-22-at-11.09.01-AM.png

;) :D

The East Coast is so weird.

[oldpotatoe]

So it's Monday evening, didja ever get your bike back? Did he say thanks?

[kitsnob]

Here's a line we use in our business:

Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part! :p

[Bruce K]

A couple of years ago at the 200 on100. (VT), I was driving support for our club.

A rider from a different group was struggling right off the line. Turns out the nitwit bought Look Delta cleats for Keo pedals and had mounted them the night before the ride.

I gave him a set of brand new correct cleats and sent him on his way with him promising to meet his wife at the lunch stop and get me the money.

We never saw him again....

BK

[F150]

Tuesday fast approaching

[Ti Designs]

All it right in the world, and what goes around comes around.

His department head is also a client of mine, a supporter of Harvard cycling, and one of the people who suggested he come see me. The problem is being resolved...

[unterhausen]

that's a little ridiculous to have to talk to the department head. There are some borderline narcissists in our department, but they all would have brought the bike back on Sunday without management assist.

[acoffin]

Thank goodness. I am sure there is a lesson for him in this somewhere. Here's to a safe recovery!:beer:

[soulspinner]

The East Coast is so weird.

That's what we say about the west coast. :rolleyes:

[kittytrail]

Thank goodness. I am sure there is a lesson for him in this somewhere. Here's to a safe recovery!:beer:

entitlement is good enough of a reason for some. :rolleyes:


last time i did that a friend bought a pair of almost brand new training tubies wheels from a local racer to whom i had loaned them a couple weeks before when he had his wheels stolen from his car before a race. big club too, less academic credentials than Harvard but with a proper UCI continental team. called to thank him for having the wheels back to me and asked that he kindly reimburse his buyer. friend got his money back and the wheels too. no ragrets. :D

no difference between cyclists and rest of the world when it comes to honesty or lack thereof. :no:

[weisan]

I think it would be good to clarify on a few things...coz I think it's easy to confuse the issues and lead folks to draw the wrong conclusions.

Take the Harvard, Affiliation, Bike Shops, Faculty Member, Charity Event out of the equation, we are left with:

A guy who is caught in a bind happened to know someone who know someone that can take care of the problem. He contacted that person and out of desperation, drove straight to his house in the middle of the night. The kind Samaritan tried to help but realized there's really not much he can do. The guy in distress got creative, again, out of desperation, asked if he can borrow the other person's bike. The kind Samaritan, being who he is, reluctantly agreed with the caveat that the bike be returned promptly upon completion of the event. Basically, the guy who came knocking in the middle of the night got what he came for. The guy who received the surprise visit, did everything he could to help and MORE, mind you, without expecting a whole lot in return, at least not at the time because his focus was in helping the customer. The guy who got what he came for, went for the ride and completed it successfully, thanks to the kind Samaritan. But he did NOT fulfill his part of the bargain in returning the bike promptly.

So where does that leave us....

A broken promise.
An unappreciative customer or at least one who doesn't know how to show it at the most elementary level by returning the bike promptly, hopefully all cleaned up and in the same condition it was found.

A frustrated, albeit kind Samaritan who despite going above and beyond his call of duty did not get his bike back on time to fulfill his other commitments, thereby letting other people down (which is the LAST thing he wants to do), nor did he receive any compensation or appreciation for what he did.

Can I maybe just say this?

This scenario has happened to me more than once, actually probably more than a handful of times...it's not something new. It has everything to do with the fact that we are dealing with people at the end of the day. People are...hmmm...what can I say...comes in all shapes and forms.

I want to say this directly to Ti pal:
My friend, if we are going to stick to our guns, and live by our values and principles, be prepared to be disappointed or be taken advantage of. That shouldn't change our positions or who we are. The latter has nothing to do with the former. The first part is OUR human decision and our personal choice, and the second part is the OTHER person's response and their personal choice.

You do what you can and leave it at that.
In the end, personally, I believe everything will work their way out...they always do.

[OtayBW]

My friend, if we are going to stick to our guns, and live by our values and principles, be prepared to be disappointed or be taken advantage of. That shouldn't change our positions or who we are. You do what you can and leave it at that.I hear what you're saying, but with all due respect, the only way to live out the full consciousness of your convictions (to quote Thomas Merton) is to become a monk. Everything else is some compromise and we as humans understandably do not always act so well, nor do we always respond to injustice with grace and courtesy. I'm not sure it would have been so easy to take the high road had I been the samaritan - not sure I would have wanted to, either....

[ripvanrando]

Maybe the Professor is having the antiquated 9 speed ripped off to return the Serotta properly decked out in 11S?

These quid pro quo kind of exchanges often sour for the good Samaritan side of the deal.

The bike would not have been lent to an MIT or Tufts or BU professor or one of their cycling team affiliates. The Department head has some clout that one party used while the other hoped to leverage said clout for his team's benefit in the future. Charity get $20,000. Harvard Cycling Coach wins some political chits for future use. All is good in the world (East Coast-wise)

It is only Tuesday, what is the big deal? He probably thinks you have tons of bikes. Its not like there are hills around Boston that a 44x21 can't handle. He's a Harvard prof, he's probably down the Vineyard for the week. Chill.

Did you try to contact him directly? Going to the boss after two days seems a bit twitchy. Do you really think you won't get your bike back?

[weisan]

I hear what you're saying, but with all due respect, the only way to live out the full consciousness of your convictions (to quote Thomas Merton) is to become a monk. Everything else is some compromise and we as humans understandably do not always act so well, nor do we always respond to injustice with grace and courtesy. I'm not sure it would have been so easy to take the high road had I been the samaritan - not sure I would have wanted to, either....

Otay pal, I understand what you are saying, in practice it's hard and I have made my share of U-turns, hesitations and compromises, that's why I am not a monk. I am not advocating sainthoods or perfection....just looking at the big picture and longer-term.

[Joxster]

You win some, you lose some.

I'm forever lending out kit to young riders, friends and shop staff. I've stuff back that's been knackered (Record cranks with the pedals in the wrong sides) I know of a rider who has sold one of my frames and now avoids me all the time, it was the bike I rode at the Olympics. I've had team mates borrow track wheels and return them without the record track nuts. There is still a rider who is still using one of my frames 8yrs later and is very proud of it, he emails me when ever he wins and sends me an update of how he is getting on. Because of this I will keep lending my stuff out to up and coming riders, the ones that abuse my generosity will burn in hell :D :D :D

[peanutgallery]

My uncle Freddie will fix the situation for a thousand dollars...plus gas money to drive his Lincoln to the job

Think rainy night in Lyndhurst:)

In all seriousness, I can empathize. Last fall I loaned a reba off a bike of mine to a guy that broke his fork the day or so before a local event. Haven't heard from him since, but the joke is on him as was an 80mm fork with QR. In the crap around here that passes for a trail he should be pretty miserable by now

[oldpotatoe]

My uncle Freddie will fix the situation for a thousand dollars...plus gas money to drive his Lincoln to the job

Think rainy night in Lyndhurst:)

In all seriousness, I can empathize. Last fall I loaned a reba off a bike of mine to a guy that broke his fork the day or so before a local event. Haven't heard from him since, but the joke is on him as was an 80mm fork with QR. In the crap around here that passes for a trail he should be pretty miserable by now

No good deed goes unpunished. As a shop, we have gone out of our way many times..on a lot of things that cost me $ as well. MOST are very humble and appreciative but a few...wow, it's all about them...and we try to fire them when it happens. As in, 'no I won't do the work..remember when I lent you a bike and you brought it back dirty and broken..and then blamed it on me?'..type thing.

[tuxbailey]

All it right in the world, and what goes around comes around.

His department head is also a client of mine, a supporter of Harvard cycling, and one of the people who suggested he come see me. The problem is being resolved...

Let me guess, his department head is also a member of this forum :)

That dude better buys a bike from you.

[staggerwing]

It is only Tuesday, what is the big deal? He probably thinks you have tons of bikes. Its not like there are hills around Boston that a 44x21 can't handle. He's a Harvard prof, he's probably down the Vineyard for the week. Chill.

The "big deal" is that the original transaction had the perfectly reasonable stipulation the bike be returned such that the lender could complete an obligation on Monday. Recipient of the 11th hour save, for whatever reason, abused this kindness, by neither returning the bike on time, nor making contact to indicate an issue.

There is nothing quite like being kicked hard in the undercarriage for doing something nice. It makes it harder to open up in the future.

[ripvanrando]

The "big deal" is that the original transaction had the perfectly reasonable stipulation the bike be returned such that the lender could complete an obligation on Monday. Recipient of the 11th hour save, for whatever reason, abused this kindness, by neither returning the bike on time, nor making contact to indicate an issue.

There is nothing quite like being kicked hard in the undercarriage for doing something nice. It makes it harder to open up in the future.

OP's post does not say that.

He says he has a lesson to give. Later he says he has to use a 44x21 on another bike for the lesson. I don't see the big deal, yet.

[FlashUNC]

The "big deal" is that the original transaction had the perfectly reasonable stipulation the bike be returned such that the lender could complete an obligation on Monday. Recipient of the 11th hour save, for whatever reason, abused this kindness, by neither returning the bike on time, nor making contact to indicate an issue.

There is nothing quite like being kicked hard in the undercarriage for doing something nice. It makes it harder to open up in the future.

A related rule I live by: Never loan out your primary ride, to anyone.

[deechee]

I think this thread will only end when we see a photo of you and your bike re-united!

[weisan]

A related rule I live by: Never loan out your primary ride, to anyone.

I actually agree with that...unless it's the absolute last resort, which in this case, is far from it. I can see myself having a hard time saying no and will probably respond the same way if the same thing happened to me...I think, a lesson for both Ti and myself...in certain situations, we just have to say "no".

[54ny77]

couldnt the guy have just rented a bike?

sheesh.

[numbskull]

couldnt the guy have just rented a bike?

sheesh.

Well ya, but it was late and who was he going to get to pay for it?

[54ny77]

i haven't read all the responses but it kinda boggles the mind that the guy who is the subject of this thread didn't have a pal he could call up and say hey, can i borrow a bike, any bike that at least can be pedaled reasonably?

i mean, i've borrowed bikes up & down the size spectrum from pals when traveling/visiting, and offered the same when they visit me. for one ride you can make most anything work within reason, +/- a couple cm.

Well ya, but it was late and who was he going to get to pay for it?

[pdmtong]

It is the OPs choice to loan his Serotta.

Why was the borrower not called / contacted by the OP to either reconfirm the return time or affirm it was on its way back?

Unfortunately when a circumstance has the potential to affect ones self it is our responsibility to ensure that circumstance manifests favorably. It shouldn't be this way but it is. People often say things and have the best intentions but I find myself constantly having to follow up to make sure what I expect is going to happen is in fact going to happen.

I might have missed this but the OP calls the guy's boss but not the guy himself?

[54ny77]

mommy mommy johnny pulled my hair wahhhhhh!


I might have missed this but the OP calls the guy's boss but not the guy himself?

[sitzmark]

couldnt the guy have just rented a bike?

sheesh.

Not at 9 or 10pm at night and make the 5-6am ride start. Depends on where he was starting the two-day ride - if Sturbridge he had a 1 hour car ride to get to the event start. Very structured event - not a loop or out and back, but a point to point ride ... 100+ miles day one, 80 miles day two.

There is no requirement that he ride to receive the donations he raised. Obviously donors expected him to ride, but the event is not a pledge per mile fund raiser.

The good news is that $34 million dollars was raised for cancer research and treatment and the donation window is still open. In the end it will all work out - TI will have his bike back and "rider H" will probably (hopefully) learn not to wait until last minute to check his bike out for next year's PMC. Doubt there's another loaner in his future from TI.

[unterhausen]

you guys are making me feel guilty for that one time I borrowed some wheels 43 years ago.

[jr59]

I think I will wait to see how this is resolved, before passing judgment.

[weisan]

you guys are making me feel guilty for that one time I borrowed some wheels 43 years ago.

unter pal, do this for penance and you will fine...

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/7c7cd7040bf3420894bca850ab7bec8b/mortification-needles-embedded-flesh-penance-kavadi-symbolic-of-lords-f3fxxg.jpg

[guido]

unter pal, do this for penance and you will fine...

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/7c7cd7040bf3420894bca850ab7bec8b/mortification-needles-embedded-flesh-penance-kavadi-symbolic-of-lords-f3fxxg.jpg

Twice.

[vqdriver]

couldnt the guy have just rented a bike?

sheesh.

yep. or just miss the ride. too bad for him, but a busted frame is on him for missing.




I might have missed this but the OP calls the guy's boss but not the guy himself?

i think the guy's dept head is who the op is acquainted with, not the rider. that would be the common contact.

[cmbicycles]

you guys are making me feel guilty for that one time I borrowed some wheels 43 years ago.
You only need to feel guilty if you still have those wheels.

[unterhausen]

I gave them back with a flatted tire

[weisan]

I gave them back with a flatted tire

Ok for that...just this will do.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vYr7CwImtRg/hqdefault.jpg

[AngryScientist]

meanwhile on the wacky.college.professors.com forum:

"I just wanted to borrow a damn bike and this guy kept telling me i dont know how to pedal and that i should fall on the pedals - what a nutjob"

:beer:

[SpokeValley]

i haven't read all the responses but it kinda boggles the mind that the guy who is the subject of this thread didn't have a pal he could call up and say hey, can i borrow a bike, any bike that at least can be pedaled reasonably?

i mean, i've borrowed bikes up & down the size spectrum from pals when traveling/visiting, and offered the same when they visit me. for one ride you can make most anything work within reason, +/- a couple cm.

And, what kind of self respecting cyclist only has ONE bike?? :rolleyes:

[unterhausen]

And, what kind of self respecting cyclist only has ONE bike?? :rolleyes:

this has been the shocking part of this thread, and I have to say that it's no wonder the guy doesn't have any friends he can borrow a bike from.

[ripvanrando]

If the good Professor doesn't return the ride by EOB tomorrow, I'm inclined to think he is a douche bag but I'm holding out that he will show up with something in his hand to redeem himself.

The thing is we "serious" cyclists have many bikes, we know the rules, and understand the solemn nature of loaning one's primary ride. The Prof is clueless apparently.

[Ti Designs]

Did you try to contact him directly? Going to the boss after two days seems a bit twitchy. Do you really think you won't get your bike back?

I tried to contact the guy with my bike a number of times in a number of ways, as he had done with me on Friday night. Nothing. I didn't contact his department head, he contacted me after asking the guy with the broken dropout what had happened over the weekend.

Maybe the Professor is having the antiquated 9 speed ripped off to return the Serotta properly decked out in 11S?

I never said he's a professor - that was your assumption, and going from 9-speed Dura-Ace to 11-speed anything is a downgrade in my book.

The bike would not have been lent to an MIT or Tufts or BU professor or one of their cycling team affiliates.

I can think of a couple of BU professors who would disagree with that statement.

Its not like there are hills around Boston that a 44x21 can't handle.

On this we agree...



the only way to live out the full consciousness of your convictions (to quote Thomas Merton) is to become a monk.

My life isn't far from that. My life is cycling, coaching and fitting, I earn just enough to pay my mortgage and put food on the table, but I also don't spend money like most people. I have no sense of direction at all, so I've never gone on a vacation on my own and my 25 year old car hasn't reached 50K miles yet. I don't need or even want the latest cycling equipment - it's not about the bike.

When I started working at Wheelworks I started riding with John Allis, the closest thing to a cycling monk I'll ever know. John stepped down from being the best american bike racer of his generation and started coaching new riders because it was the right thing to do. He coached the Harvard cycling team for 30 years, never asked for a dime. The world is a better place because of John Allis, and it has nothing to do with his racing career. He coached me for 25 of those years, I had no idea when I started working at Wheelworks that I was the luckiest cyclist ever, but I was. When John retired I took over as coach of the team, it wasn't in question and I never asked for a salary. For a few years Harvard did charge me $370/year for access to their athletic facilities, but someone took care of that. I simply do what I can to produce the best cyclists, there are no constraints. Most of the time the results are very positive, I'll give you two examples:

One of my riders wanted to race, she showed up at the indoor sessions, she showed up all winter long for the rides, but her only bike was a touring bike. Specialized had given me an Allez frame to do Mt Washington, but I found I climbed better on my Serotta. I built the bike up with older Ultegra and fitted it to her. She wound up being a very good sprinter and a driving force behind the growth of the team. More to the point, she's a good friend and someone I could always count on. The cost of a bike seems insignificant.

A number of years ago a rider came to me for a fitting. He had back problems and knee problems, but he also came to me with cycling goals. I fitted him and said that we really should go for a ride to see what really happens on the road. We did just that, we worked on climbing and technique on the bike. I never charged him for the coaching time. He's now a part of my coaching program, and I get to take part in his ever expanding cycling goals (for a guy with no sense of direction, that's huge).

Once in a while I take a chance and it doesn't work out. I have my bike back, I'm out a few hours of work - big deal.

[Schmed]

I have my bike back.

Finally - good news! Good on you for your generosity. :beer:

[vqdriver]

ti designs - you did it right. you were put on the spot by a pushy someone who knew someone. late at night, at home. in that moment, you opted to be generous. nothing wrong with that.

glad you got your ride back.

[Corso]

Once in a while I take a chance and it doesn't work out. I have my bike back, I'm out a few hours of work - big deal.

Huh? Big deal? Ti, you were the one who posted the original complaint about the guy, after 8 pages of comments, it’s no big deal?

I think it is. it speaks to a generation of kids who have little concern about keeping a promise, an appointment, or his word. “it’s all about me” seems to be part of the younger generations fiber.

Yes, he appeared to have raised money for the event, but unfortunately, I’ve met riders who thought the PanMass was about THEM (Looks at my kit, Look at my bike, Look at all the Freds, Look at what I raised, Look how fast I can ride) not the cause of fighting cancer.

Glad you have your bike back, and I hope he learned something from this…But I doubt it.

[deechee]

I think it is. it speaks to a generation of kids who have little concern about keeping a promise, an appointment, or his word. “it’s all about me” seems to be part of the younger generations fiber.


Seriously? I doubt a "kid" knows what a Serotta is.

[OtayBW]

My life isn't far from that. My life is cycling, coaching and fitting, I earn just enough to pay my mortgage and put food on the table, but I also don't spend money like most people. I have no sense of direction at all, so I've never gone on a vacation on my own and my 25 year old car hasn't reached 50K miles yet. I don't need or even want the latest cycling equipment - it's not about the bike.

When I started working at Wheelworks I started riding with John Allis, the closest thing to a cycling monk I'll ever know. John stepped down from being the best american bike racer of his generation and started coaching new riders because it was the right thing to do. He coached the Harvard cycling team for 30 years, never asked for a dime. The world is a better place because of John Allis, and it has nothing to do with his racing career. He coached me for 25 of those years, I had no idea when I started working at Wheelworks that I was the luckiest cyclist ever, but I was. When John retired I took over as coach of the team, it wasn't in question and I never asked for a salary. For a few years Harvard did charge me $370/year for access to their athletic facilities, but someone took care of that. I simply do what I can to produce the best cyclists, there are no constraints. Most of the time the results are very positive, I'll give you two examples:

One of my riders wanted to race, she showed up at the indoor sessions, she showed up all winter long for the rides, but her only bike was a touring bike. Specialized had given me an Allez frame to do Mt Washington, but I found I climbed better on my Serotta. I built the bike up with older Ultegra and fitted it to her. She wound up being a very good sprinter and a driving force behind the growth of the team. More to the point, she's a good friend and someone I could always count on. The cost of a bike seems insignificant.

A number of years ago a rider came to me for a fitting. He had back problems and knee problems, but he also came to me with cycling goals. I fitted him and said that we really should go for a ride to see what really happens on the road. We did just that, we worked on climbing and technique on the bike. I never charged him for the coaching time. He's now a part of my coaching program, and I get to take part in his ever expanding cycling goals (for a guy with no sense of direction, that's huge).

Once in a while I take a chance and it doesn't work out. I have my bike back, I'm out a few hours of work - big deal.Well - it's good that you were kind enough to make the gesture, and good that you have this perspective....

[jfowler]

Man, can't really believe this dude treated you that way. He should have at the very least given you a shout out!

[pdmtong]

Once in a while I take a chance and it doesn't work out. I have my bike back, I'm out a few hours of work - big deal.

Huh? Big deal? Ti, you were the one who posted the original complaint about the guy, after 8 pages of comments, it’s no big deal?

Apparently it's a big deal until it's not. Would be good to save this perspective for next time someone takes their time returning a bike.

[beeatnik]

Can someone tell me what this thread was about?

[vqdriver]

Can someone tell me what this thread was about?

pokemon go

[beeatnik]

^I knew it!

[Corso]

Luckily a happy ending, and not one ending with a new thread:

Title: Just scored a sweet Serotta on Craigs-bay!

[Ti Designs]

I think it is. it speaks to a generation of kids who have little concern about keeping a promise, an appointment, or his word. “it’s all about me” seems to be part of the younger generations fiber.

Generation selfie...

The guy who borrowed my bike is a lab PI - he runs the lab, sets up experiment schedules, signs off on research published by the lab, and in the past had something to say about the racing schedules of a few of my riders. His values are different than most, he viewed that whole thing as "got past that problem, let's move on". Rethinking it, it's what I should have expected from someone in his position. I still can't see him as someone who makes frequent use of a selfie stick.

[weisan]

Same with this thread, I think it has run its useful course.

[Waldo]

....