Why no carbon?

[David Kirk]

I could be way wrong but in watching Le Tour it seems that most of the Campy guys are running Aluminum cranks. It also appears that they are using the old school tapered spindle stuff as opposed to Campy's fancy new integrated system.

Anyone know why this is?

Dave

[saab2000]

The Spanish rider de la Fuente had a carbon crank on his Scott. That's why he was in the Polka Dot jersey and the others weren't I guess.

I personally don't think there is any logical reason why they would use carbon or aluminum. I have both and can't feel a difference. But then again I am not riding the Tour.

As to why they are not using the new design, that is a better question IMHO, unless it is still being worked on or tested.

[Grant McLean]

I think Boonen rides 177.5's which only come in the alu version.

There are certainly plenty of guys riding the carbon ones too,
but i've yet to spot any of the '07 stuff.

I'm not really sure about "mostly" on alu, I believe most are on carbon,
with some notable exceptions.

g

campy sponsors:
DAVITAMON LOTTO
BOUYGUES-TELECOM
CAISSE D'ESPAGNE - ILLES BALEARS
LIQUIGAS
LAMPRE - FONDITAL
QUICKSTEP - INNERGETIC
SAUNIER DUVAL - PRODIR
AG2R PREVOYANCE
PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS

[Jason E]

Someone was riding the new crank in there the other day, but yeah, I noticed much moreof the square-taper then the new design... Maybe supply/size availability?

Also, using CA as an example, they seem to be using the traditional seatpost bikes, instead of the integrated seattube/seatpost. I wonder if this is for practicality in the event someone gets a flat or mechanical and needs to give up their bike. More chance of on the fly saddle adjustment?

[stevep]

As to why they are not using the new design, that is a better question IMHO, unless it is still being worked on or tested.

anyone remember the introduction of delta brakes? hope these cranks are well tested...maybe thats why no one is using them...they are not ready.

[Serpico]

...

Also, using CA as an example, they seem to be using the traditional seatpost bikes, instead of the integrated seattube/seatpost.

...

and Hushovd is the obvious exception, I wonder if they let one guy "showcase" the product simply for contrast purposes--to attract attention to the product

ie "Look at his seatpost, all the other guys on his team have regular ones--what is that bike?"

ie "Hey, one of the guys on Credit Agricole has a seat tube that runs clear up to his saddle--what is that bike? Do/will you guys carry that?"

just a thought

[Grant McLean]

Someone was riding the new crank in there the other day, but yeah, I noticed much moreof the square-taper then the new design... Maybe supply/size availability?

Also, using CA as an example, they seem to be using the traditional seatpost bikes, instead of the integrated seattube/seatpost. I wonder if this is for practicality in the event someone gets a flat or mechanical and needs to give up their bike. More chance of on the fly saddle adjustment?

I believe the equipment sponsors 'seed' their newest gear into the teams
to get some hype, without the massive expense of replacing every bike that's
only a few months old. Makes the "special" riders feel special, and gives the
weight weenies website something to write about.

I wouldn't take the message that something new isn't "ready" just because
every pro doesn't get the new stuff ahead of time. There's a lot of marketing
going on here.

g

[sspielman]

I think Boonen rides 177.5's which only come in the alu version.

There are certainly plenty of guys riding the carbon ones too,
but i've yet to spot any of the '07 stuff.

I'm not really sure about "mostly" on alu, I believe most are on carbon,
with some notable exceptions.

g

campy sponsors:
DAVITAMON LOTTO
BOUYGUES-TELECOM
CAISSE D'ESPAGNE - ILLES BALEARS
LIQUIGAS
LAMPRE - FONDITAL
QUICKSTEP - INNERGETIC
SAUNIER DUVAL - PRODIR
AG2R PREVOYANCE
PHONAK HEARING SYSTEMS

Campagnolo sponsors Bouygues Telecom, but does not supply their cranksets. Stronglight supplies the cranksets and BB's (and they are carbon for the road stages)

[Bill Bove]

anyone remember the introduction of delta brakes? hope these cranks are well tested...maybe thats why no one is using them...they are not ready.
I loved the Delta brakes and still have a pair of them. Have to be careful with them now though, they'ed crush a carbon rim.

I also saw one team riding the new carbon crank early on but not since. Carbon v. aluminum? Cost? A couple of top dogs get carbon, the lowly domestiques, hard to fit and those that simply prefer aluminum get aluminum?

[saab2000]

I think the new ones are simply not ready yet and they don't want any high profile failures.

That new crank will be spendy and they don't want people to think it is just a boutique product which can't stand the heat.

Also, my Record Delta brakes on my Grandis work fine. The biggest problem is the helacious screeching/squeeling which I can't really make go away no matter what I do. Seems to depend more on the phase of the moon and the temperature/dew point spread than any logical thing.

[Grant McLean]

[QUOTE=saab2000]I think the new ones are simply not ready yet and they don't want any high profile failures.
That new crank will be spendy and they don't want people to think it is just a boutique product which can't stand the heat. [QUOTE]

Or maybe the new campy isn't here yet because it's for 2007?

Not "ready" implies it still needs to be 'de-bugged', which i don't think is the
case. Campy is saying October delivery for the '07 stuff. My guess is that
they have still been making the '06 versions until recently, and haven't
switched over all their production for delivery this early.
No conspiricy theories here.

Anyone want to start guessing what's wrong with Sram becuase no one is
riding it yet?

g

[saab2000]

Or maybe the new campy isn't here yet because it's for 2007?

Not "ready" implies it still needs to be 'de-bugged', which i don't think is the
case. Campy is saying October delivery for the '07 stuff. My guess is that
they have still been making the '06 versions until recently, and haven't
switched over all their production for delivery this early.
No conspiricy theories here.

Anyone want to start guessing what's wrong with Sram becuase no one is
riding it yet?

g

No conspiracies here either. I am just thinking that sometimes they and Shimano have rolled out next year's stuff at the Tour. Doesn't seem to be the case here.

[stevep]

the initial batch of delta brakes all rusted out in the giro, destroyed.
introduced, removed and back to the drawing board.
every team switched them out in the middle of the race that season.
they failed to use stainless innards on the fool things.
they dont want another one of those..where boonens starts the stage w/ a new crank and finishes on his spare bike...and every team takes them off during the night and replaces them w/ aluminum.
might look badly

[Jason E]

I believe the equipment sponsors 'seed' their newest gear into the teams
to get some hype, without the massive expense of replacing every bike that's
only a few months old. Makes the "special" riders feel special, and gives the
weight weenies website something to write about.

I wouldn't take the message that something new isn't "ready" just because
every pro doesn't get the new stuff ahead of time. There's a lot of marketing
going on here.

g

It was not anyone special that was riding it. I'm not implying that they are not ready, just that the container ship from Tiawan may not have arrived on time to supply everyone. :rolleyes:

I also doubt it's an effort to save money, this is THE showcase.

[atmo]

the initial batch of delta brakes all rusted out in the giro, destroyed.
i have an n.o.s. set here in stock (http://www.campyonly.com/history/delta_prototypes.html) atmo.

[dave thompson]

I think the Delta brakes are truly exquisite. I wish I had the knowledge on how to set them up and maintain them properly, I'd have a set on my Sachs.

[Matt Barkley]

you'll still see sprinters more often on the Alu cranks - also the riders can source smoother better quality low drag bearings with those super-antiquated square-tapered BBs..... Mountain stages will showcase the single use lightweight stuff - stuff we are supposed to by and ride all season... Ha!:) Carbon cranks are fine now, just interesting to see guys still choosing alu for strength reasons - Boonen ould still ride alus if 177.5s were available in carbon. - :beer: -matt

[mflaherty37]

Maybe they need to get weight over 7kilos?

[bostondrunk]

I prefer the aluminum cranks as I tend to flex the carbon version too much..

[catulle]

Maybe the inventories of the current product are too high still, and they want to let retailers dump some of the stuff before buying the new line. I´ve already seen some significant discounted offers of the regular Record CF components. Also, they may be expecting Shimano to launch their electronic thingy soon so they want to hustle with their new line, atmo.

[catulle]

I prefer the aluminum cranks as I tend to flex the carbon version too much..

I have a friend locally who feels the same way. He's been local national champion several times and has raced in Europe so whatever he says is way beyond the scope of my experience, atmo.

[swoop]

i'm willing to bet it's just as likely that campy just gave them aluminum cranks... rather than the carbon.. and the only motivation was that it costs campy less to do so... and the consumer demand is for carbon so they go to the consumers.
in general these things aren't as dissected as you might believe...and up close you'd be surpirsed at what you see component wise... i'm willing to bet there are guys running worn out cogs (csc notoriously had a problem with old cogs last year, and older bits). it's just not always what you think.. atmo.
....
i've got a buddy there this year with a press pass.. i'll ask him to snoop around. all i've heard so far is that thor's look is gorgeous in real life, that horner is feeling fine after he got banged up, and that the little facial punching match between climbers was resolved wihtout anyone getting thrown out (he's got the whole arguement on tape).

ps.. i doubt anyone here is actually flexing either crankset (unless you are a very large man).... i believe your sincerety and that it feels like you are.. but i doubt you're putting out enough watts to do so in any way that would hurt your sprint.... and if you are.. we need to talk about your future racing kilo... atmo squared.

[atmo]

i'm willing to bet it's just as likely that campy just gave them aluminum cranks... rather than the carbon.. and the only motivation was that it costs campy less to do so... and the consumer demand is for carbon so they go to the consumers.
in general these things aren't as dissected as you might believe...and up close you'd be surpirsed at what you see component wise... i'm willing to bet there are guys running worn out cogs (csc notoriously had a problem with old cogs last year, and older bits). it's just not always what you think.. atmo.


atmo, all points above are 100% accurate based
on my involvement with the sport and with the
sponsoring segment (i.e., those who make the
decisions) of the industry.

[Kirk Pacenti]

atmo, all points above are 100% accurate based
on my involvement with the sport and with the
sponsoring segment (i.e., those who make the
decisions) of the industry.

Wouldn't it be ironic if all the "consumers" saw the pro's using alum. parts and started demanding alu. It will never happen, just sayin' it'd be ironic. :p

fwiw, I think the 2003/2004 Record/Chorus all aluminum stuff is the best looking and working I have used. But I have given up trying to spec what "looks" good to me, and now just use whatever is readily available. 2007 Record, here I come, ugly black finish, cranks, brakes, and all.

[atmo]

Wouldn't it be ironic if all the "consumers" saw the pro's using alum. parts and started demanding alu. It will never happen, just sayin' it'd be ironic. :p

fwiw, I think the 2003/2004 Record/Chorus all aluminum stuff is the best looking and working I have used. But I have given up trying to spec what "looks" good to me, and now just use whatever is readily available. 2007 Record, here I come, ugly black finish, cranks, brakes, and all.
all that matters in the peloton is that the brand is exploited,
not the part itself. marketing is a many layered task, and if
the pros win on the brand, the suits will find a way to leverage
the components.
funny about the color thing; i'm an all-black guy. i think of
silver as being so 90s. i don't care what the material is. if
record was black anodized rather than cf, i'd like it all the
same atmo. goth-issimo.

[Bradford]

i think of
silver as being so 90s.

I agree, just like steel frames...so 90s. :D

[atmo]

I agree, just like steel frames...so 90s. :D
can i get the pfizer riser (https://www.viagra.com/index.asp?source=google&HBX_PK=s_viagra&HBX_OU=50&o=12644685|27147512|0) please atmo?

[Johny]

I agree, just like steel frames...so 90s. :D

No, so 70s.

[Grant McLean]

I agree, just like steel frames...so 90s. :D

1890's ?

ha ha he he

g

[autoloclys]

I think is kind of funny how materials get sort of type-cast by both riders and Manufacturers in this sport. The comments are typically "alu is stiffest but harsh, Carbon is lightest but sketchy, steel is real but vintage". If one wanted to build a carbon crankset and aim for stiffness instead of lightness it would likely weight similar or slightly lighter than alu. Steel frames, expescially with the new 951 can be nearly as light as the high zoot black frames, and alum or Ti can go for weight as well (ghisallo anyone) Im not saying its bad, just that its a shame that materials are used for only one thing.

Want it lighter, replace some of the parts with carbon, but not the imprtant ones because no-one will trust it

want it stiffer, make it aluminum even if hincapie can snap an al steerer in paris-roubaix

maybe the marketing works TOO well.

ive personally done a lot of work with composites and think the reason many riders are suspicious of carbon parts is that SOP with carbon is to use it for weight loss, which leads to super light parts getting overloaded and failing. I have built frames for olympic track riders who have commented on it being the stiffest frame theyve riden, but the tubes and frame were designed to be stiff, not light.

the biggest reason aL is so common is because its cheap to manufacture, stiffness comes from it being a soft metal that must be overbuilt to be durable.

It doesnt have to carbon for weight, al for stiff, steel for ride, but the stereo types mean thats what we expect and thats what manufacturers give us.

that silly snake keeps eating its TAIL!

[atmo]

Steel frames, expescially with the new 951 can be nearly as light as the high zoot black frames<cut>


tawk to e-RICHEI amto.

[Jason E]

Will you be dabbling in the Black Magic known as 951?

[Grant McLean]

Will you be dabbling in the Black Magic known as 951?

that stuff is for high temp. weldin' no?

g

[Jason E]

I am sure there are far more informed people on this board then myself when it comes to this. I read a little here and there, including talking a little to someone at IF about it, but any attempts at answering questions about it would be beyond me, so I will not try.

Since I do not understand it, I declare it witch-craft....

Or should I refer to it as a product of Intelligent Design? Hmmmm.....

:D

[erty65]

http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfPr/$file/1.jpg http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfPr/$file/5.jpg http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfSt2/$file/1.jpg http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfSt3/$file/4.jpg http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfSt3/$file/5.jpg http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfSt3/$file/14.jpg http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfSt5/$file/6.jpg http://grahamwatson.com/gw/imagedocs.nsf/images/06tdfSt5/$file/9.jpg

[Jason E]

That was worth it just for the pics!