True comparisons wanted: 26ers vs. 29ers

[Matthew]

I recently did an MTB race on my old trusty Moots Rigormootis 26er. I love this bike but kinda got my rear end handed to me at the event. Now to be fair, my time would have been good for 2nd place in the 30-34 group but in my old guy category I kinda got beat down!! Of course, there were lots of riders there on the new fangled equipment: 29ers with full suspension and disc brakes etc. It got me thinking, am I at a distinct disadvantage riding my old school 26er with V-brakes? I have it set up modern with a 1x10 and really enjoy riding this bike. I don't have any complaints but I have not ridden a newer bigger wheeled bike either so can't really compare the two. Now to acquire a new bike I would have to sell my Moots and maybe even a road bike to justify a new 27.5 or 29er. To be honest I would rather keep it as I don't ride off road too often but a new bike does sound enticing. Courses here in Michigan are typically on the more technical side with lots of singletrack. Some have a fair amount of climbing but nothing too crazy. So, for those that have ridden/raced both, what are your thoughts? Thanks for your time and input. Matthew

[rnhood]

29 is the way forward, and it appears more engineering innovation and evolvement are focused on this platform to a larger extent, although I am certainly no authority or expert. Just my opinion. I've popped an innertube twice on long descents with my mtb wth V-brakes. And, I get fade and funny noises during longer braking intervals (descending). But they are fine for most other mtb riding.

Your bike is fine and likely not the reason you are getting walked on. Just like with road bikes 9-speed is perfectly fine. Given the fact that you are not riding it too often, I would keep it and enjoy it. However, if you race and want to ride it more, then if it were me I'd get a 29'er in a heartbeat (especially if you have the finances). Don't waste your time compromising with a 27.5. Get the real thing, a 29.

[pdmtong]

V-Brakes? your bike is sellable but I bet you will not like the amount offered. join the club...my 2010 s-works stumpjumper FSR is worthless too.

while your bike is "fine" there have been light years worth of advances in frame geo, front and rear suspension, disc brakes, and drivetrain since then.

and, while you may only ride periodically, the enjoyment of riding will be much higher.

case in point. with discs you can now carry more speed into a section knowing you can immediately scrub said speed to change lines. now you are actually riding safer, and in more control.

[Gummee]

OP: if you have a buddy with 650b wheels and tires, toss em on the Moots to see if you have enough clearance.

May just work if you're not riding in the mud.

They'll roll better. Not quite as quickly as a 29er, but better than the 26ers on the bike now.

M

[kingpin75s]

Wheels do not make the biggest difference IMHO. Suspension does.

If I were in your position, and in some ways I AM, that is what I would focus on first and then consider wheel size second with respect to a new ride or not. I prefer hard tails or my Moots Rogue YBB and still ride a Serotta 26er steel hard tail with a whispy fork and V brakes too. All that said my buddy on his FS Pivot 26er always fares better than I in tough single track.

If you do not need feel you need full suspension then I do not believe just going to a 29er or 650b will make such a big difference. My ride times for trails I ride in the mid-west do not vary greatly from 26er to 650b to 29er and I ride all 3 sizes.

Just my opinion from someone who eschews FS bikes but understands their value on rocky and root filled trails like the NH100 the past 2 years. Rough...

[Matthew]

Thanks for the replies so far. I guess the best thing would be to try to demo one or borrow one from a buddy. Biggest issue is my buddies ride bikes larger than mine and the fit would likely be goofy. It may be more in my head too. Maybe they are simply faster than me! And there is a decent chance that the guy who won my class could have won it on my bike too.

[gdw]

Are you primarily a racer or do you also ride for fun?

[Matthew]

Primarily for fun. May race a few times or more a year.

[zank]

Are you at a disadvantage? Yes.
Should you buy a new bike? No.
Should you reconsider if trail riding becomes a bigger part of your life? Positively.

[peanutgallery]

The 29er wheel does the work for you as compared to a 26. It addresses bumps, logs rock whatever with an angle of attack that a 26 cannot compete with. Couple that with increased contact patch/tubeless and it makes life a lot easier with a lot less work in rough stuff. On a 29er you sit more nuetral and on a 26 you invest every fiber of your being into forward momentum as every bump, log ,rock you hit is attempting to send you backwards. I would take a 29er hard tail over any 26 full suspension bike, hands down. 29er full suspension is where its at though. Plush, fast and comfortable

With a 29er you will find it takes a bit more input to flick it around but you get used to it.

Throw in disc brakes with a clutch rear derailleur and you won't know how to act.

[pasadena]

I have all three. 26, 27.5 and 29er

I don't notice much difference between a 26 and 27.5/650B.
29er is good if you're tall and/or on a rigid or hardtail.
It's better at absorbing the terrain.

The disadvantage of the 29er is on tight switchbacks. The wheels want to 'flop over' easier.
26 is more agile, and faster in the tight stuff.

Honestly, I feel like the 27.5 is not enough a difference to change from 26.
Maybe 27.5 will become the new 26, and 26 will die? Dunno.

[zank]

When you do reconsider *wink wink* put 27plus on your list to demo. So. Much. Fun.

[Tony]

The 29er wheel does the work for you as compared to a 26. It addresses bumps, logs rock whatever with an angle of attack that a 26 cannot compete with. Couple that with increased contact patch/tubeless and it makes life a lot easier with a lot less work in rough stuff. On a 29er you sit more nuetral and on a 26 you invest every fiber of your being into forward momentum as every bump, log ,rock you hit is attempting to send you backwards. I would take a 29er hard tail over any 26 full suspension bike, hands down. 29er full suspension is where its at though. Plush, fast and comfortable

With a 29er you will find it takes a bit more input to flick it around but you get used to it.

Throw in disc brakes with a clutch rear derailleur and you won't know how to act.

This.
If your planning on racing demo a 29er hardtail, ti if its in your budget.

[ofcounsel]

Are you at a disadvantage? Yes.
Should you buy a new bike? No.
Should you reconsider if trail riding becomes a bigger part of your life? Positively.

This......

Yes, you're clearly at a disadvantage with your equipment. And, no... you shouldn't buy new equipment if doing so means you'll have to get rid of other bikes you still really like. But, as stated by zank... if you start getting into it more, then for sure. swap out your bike for a modern 29er or 27.5

[JAGI410]

You don't need to buy a new bike, you need to demo/ride some new bikes. Then do some soul searching.

[Gummee]

This.
If your planning on racing demo a 29er hardtail, ti if its in your budget.

...or a soft tail

M

[Lund]

29er is good if you're tall and/or on a rigid or hardtail.

The disadvantage of the 29er is on tight switchbacks. The wheels want to 'flop over' easier.
26 is more agile, and faster in the tight stuff.



I agree with this this sentiment. As a shorter person, 5' 6", I prefer 26" for jumps (lighter) and super tight maneuvers. My 29er seems like too much bike for me at times and I feel like it kinda makes me lazy; as in, I will just roll over an obstacle instead of working on my technique or choosing a better line.

Wheels do not make the biggest difference IMHO. Suspension does.


Also, in agreeance here- suspension is a HUGE factor! rigid v. hardtail v. soft-tail v. full sus. are all very different in terms of feel, price, maintenance, ect...

The disc vs. rim brakes comparison is a whole other conversation. My 2¢- is it is easier for me to wrench on rim brakes, so they are on everything except my 29er, which I need help with bleeding/ maintaining. Discs works great IF they are properly setup and maintained.

I think 26" is cheaper and works just fine. I suspect they will make a comeback, or everyone will ditch their old bikes and parts and I will be able to build up something ridiculously nice on a budget :D.

[CNY rider]

I agree with this this sentiment. As a shorter person, 5' 6", I prefer 26" for jumps (lighter) and super tight maneuvers. My 29er seems like too much bike for me at times and I feel like it kinda makes me lazy; as in, I will just roll over an obstacle instead of working on my technique or choosing a better line.



.

I'm the same height as you and this is exactly how I feel about my Pugsley which I use for mountain biking.

[Peter P.]

While I can't offer a "true comparison" I can concur with this advice: Try to find a demo or rental bike and try for yourself.

It's my personal observation that it isn't the tech that makes you fast, it's YOU that makes you fast.

As an aside, it's said 29er's are slower uphill due to the larger diameter of the wheels and their increased polar moment of inertia. That's a fancy way of saying there's extra weight in the larger diameter rims and tires which makes it more difficult to gain and keep speed going uphill. Just sayin'.

[peanutgallery]

The 29er makes things easier, if you're a terrible bike handler that won't change. So you're right there. A 29er actually climbs better than a 26 in the woods due to the increased traction. You will easily scale sections that a 26 will leave you walking, the increased traction is very noticeable. The wheel weight you get used to once its spun up, even on a 650 plus

The handling of a 29er is different than a 26, not worse. You have to pay a little more attention as to where the front wheel is going to be versus the rear in the tight stuff. After a while it's second nature

While I can't offer a "true comparison I can concur with this advice: Try to find a demo or rental bike and try for yourself.

It's my personal observation that it isn't the tech that makes you fast, it's YOU that makes you fast.

As an aside, it's said 29er's are slower uphill due to the larger diameter of the wheels and their increased polar moment of inertia. That's a fancy way of saying there's extra weight in the larger diameter rims and tires which makes it more difficult to gain and keep speed going uphill. Just sayin'.

[zank]

I agree with Peter. You make you fast. There is a reason Myette crushes everyone on his 29er SS with noodly 9 mm QRs and straight steerer. The dude is an absolute beast.

Having spent 7 years on 29 and the last 3 on 27, 27 is the sweet spot for me for 2.25-2.35" tires. I was able to get some line options back that I couldn't hit on 29. You get a lot of the "roll over ability" that 29 offers, but more agility in the tight stuff. That said, I've also worked really hard on improving my cornering and technical riding. I'm in the woods 3-5 days a week. So as my riding has evolved, my equipment has too. I really don't miss anything about 29.

27plus is a game changer. I think it discredits the idea that tire and rim weight make a massive difference in how fast you can ride. Traction and a conforming tire (i.e. cushion) seem to trump weight. How do I know? Riders are going faster on plus. The clock doesn't lie. I think there are parallels to 650Bx42 becoming more and more popular on the road-ish bikes. Smaller diameter rim, bigger volume tire, happier and faster riders. IMHO of course.

[tele]

I agree with Peter. You make you fast. There is a reason Myette crushes everyone on his 29er SS with noodly 9 mm QRs and straight steerer. The dude is an absolute beast.

Having spent 7 years on 29 and the last 3 on 27, 27 is the sweet spot for me for 2.25-2.35" tires. I was able to get some line options back that I couldn't hit on 29. You get a lot of the "roll over ability" that 29 offers, but more agility in the tight stuff. That said, I've also worked really hard on improving my cornering and technical riding. I'm in the woods 3-5 days a week. So as my riding has evolved, my equipment has too. I really don't miss anything about 29.

27plus is a game changer. I think it discredits the idea that tire and rim weight make a massive difference in how fast you can ride. Traction and a conforming tire (i.e. cushion) seem to trump weight. How do I know? Riders are going faster on plus. The clock doesn't lie. I think there are parallels to 650Bx42 becoming more and more popular on the road-ish bikes. Smaller diameter rim, bigger volume tire, happier and faster riders. IMHO of course.

Mike has hit the nail on the head, its about the engine.

HOWEVER, I have been riding a 27++, 3.8" tires, and the rollover ability, traction, comfort, increased cornering ability is amazing. I'm not the best mtb'er by any stretch but I can ride more tech with confidence. Also I can out descend and carry more speed now than my buds on 29ers or 26".
Game changed for me!

[benb]

Don't discount bike fit.. a roadie influenced MTB fit is not doing anyone any favors. An easy thing to do on your current bike is to shorten up your stem... it will probably increase your ability to handle technical stuff quite a bit.

My mountain bike is old, but not as old as the OPs.. I bought it in 2004 I think, from the same shop I had bought a road bike that year.. they put me in a pretty aggressive/forward position. It took me years to get a clue but lowering the saddle a bit, raising the bars a lot, shortening the stem, etc.. pay huge dividends.

Also get out of the saddle as much as you can. (Aggressive roadie style positions make this hard.)

Frankly though really good disc brakes are the biggest technical bit IMO. I kind of got an education on this around 2005 or so watching MTB downhill nationals in person.. in practice I remember seeing guys coming down the mountain at insane speeds and stopping on a dime when they made a mistake. It makes a huge difference to be able to easily stop whenever and wherever you want in control.

I am having this fantasy lately where I switch to not riding any bikes with drop bars. Get rid of my fast roadie, convert my gravel bike to a Jones bar, and either leave my MTB alone get a new MTB, maybe 27.5+. Just not really wanting to spend any more money this year.

[TBLS]

Agree with reco to demo bikes. I just moved from an ancient s works 26 hard tail, v brakes, etc...old school long and narrow set up.

New 27.5 is taking me time to adjust to....higher, bars 5" wider, discs are solid. Not ready to judge better/worse, just different

If ever on the east side of mi you can try my 27.5 if a large fits

[Hilltopperny]

At 5'8" I used to love my 26" mountain bikes. They are just faster handling than the 29ers IMO and I didn't feel I was too high off of the ground. I recently bought a 29+ in a size small (surly ecr) and it may be a little smaller frame, but the 29+ platform is fun and versatile for the kind of riding I do. I know the ecr isn't a strictly mountain frame, but its replacing my other mountain bikes and rolls over everything that I used to have to be more technical on with a 26er and I don't feel as if I am too high off of the ground. Big tires are nice for slop and rough stuff even without the suspension.

[oldpotatoe]

Primarily for fun. May race a few times or more a year.

Moots can upgrade that rig to discs, new front sus, and I'll bet a 27.5 wheelset will fit..

[Matthew]

Frame already has disc tabs. Previous owner had it done with a refurbish job prior to selling. It looks brand new even though it's a 2002. I think I am just going to keep it. It's a great bike and I really enjoy riding it. And I can't justify selling it really, and I don't want to let go of any of my current road bikes. And it's a Moots. A bike I have lusted after for decades. Think I will ride it til the wheels fall off!! If it holds me back a bit in my races, so be it I guess. Thanks for all of the valuable input, I really appreciate it. This place is awesome! Matt

[Richard]

Put a relatively high end fork and some xt disc brakes on it and you'll feel like you have a new bike. And it will fly.

[ptourkin]

OP: if you have a buddy with 650b wheels and tires, toss em on the Moots to see if you have enough clearance.

May just work if you're not riding in the mud.

They'll roll better. Not quite as quickly as a 29er, but better than the 26ers on the bike now.

M

Gonna have a rough time finding mtb 650b with rim brake surface but if you already have disc tabs, at least disc wheels will give you an idea if it will work.

[benb]

Isn't it a stretch to think the 650b wheels/tires that you could throw on with disc wheels on a bike intended for 26" would be better than the 26" options? We're not talking about an actual 27.5" frame so if you went to 650b wouldn't you have to use a really narrow/small tire?

In any case whether it's switching to 26" disc wheels/tires or trying 650b disc wheels/tires, if the frame has the disc mounts and fits well that's the obvious path regardless of the wheel choice.

[CampyorBust]

I toss my small Pugsley around like it’s a rag doll, the whole 29ers handle not so well thing never rang true for me, except for once on the Stumpjumper evo, that thing sasasucked on so many levels. Its all about the geo.

I am not very tall and will be going 29er in addition to my 27.5 when I get the chance, until then I have learned to pick up my front wheel more often and pedal harder. Full squish is nice very nice and if you have the means…

26 are over for me, and I say this as I am in the process of building one up for ****s and giggles. Fully rigid, I want to give it the beans and see if it can match a 27.5 full squishah carbon destroyer.

Your bike sounds like its a tad bit long in the tooth, but hey Sabertooths are bad ass. If it can fit 27.5 that is awesome and you lucked out. A new bike is always nice, your race results sounds very promising and a new bike would boost your results three fold. That new bike honeymoon is like crack, if you ration it, it can last forevah!

[gdw]

Out of of shape or have a bad day? Buy a new bike or two, preferably the same as mine, and all will be okay. Gotta love the Paceline.:banana:

[Matthew]

Don't think I am out of shape! Maybe it was just a bad day. A guy I raced at a different venue last October beat me by a little over two minutes. Last October I got him by almost five. Gonna stick with what I have and know. I like my positioning on this bike and don't want to tweak anything. If I get a chance to throw a leg over a new one and like it, maybe I will take the plunge then.

[malcolm]

I own all three. Turner flux 26er, custom Ti 27.5 hardtail and a Pivot mach429. I disagree with those that have said they couldn't tell the difference between 26 and 27.5 for me it was huge. I've only got a few months on the 29er and overall I think I like it better but I think it's mostly full sus and not wheel size.

I'm not sure maybe Zanc or somebody can confirm but the geo or something seems to have changed with the full sus 29er compared to the early ones which I hated. They seem to handle better now than I remember back then. I almost can't feel the difference in wheel size on my 29er except in improved roll over. I did go with a larger frame and shorter stem than I would have historically have used so maybe that's part of it.

I'll also add that I don't think I'm significantly faster on one over the other. My routine 18 mile loop times are all pretty close and more dependent on how much I'm ridding than what I'm ridding.

[zank]

Yes, the geometry has changed quite drastically. Very slack HT angles, long top tubes, short stems, and very wide bars now rule the roost. We steer with our hips now, much like alpine skiing. Add dropper posts into the mix, and you find traction that never existed in the past.

[MikeD]

Have you gone tubeless yet? How about wider bars and shorter stem?

[Matthew]

Not riding tubeless and really don't want to change my position on the bike. I did ride my buddy's 29er in a parking lot a couple times. Has a short stem. Found the position to be very weird. Honestly I don't know how he finds that bike comfortable at all. I felt way too upright on it.

[bobswire]

Not riding tubeless and really don't want to change my position on the bike. I did ride my buddy's 29er in a parking lot a couple times. Has a short stem. Found the position to be very weird. Honestly I don't know how he finds that bike comfortable at all. I felt way too upright on it.

That was always my problem with 29ers, felt like I was sitting on a bobber with monkey bars. The good thing about them is you can do pull ups for cross training. :)

http://i65.tinypic.com/9sypg7.jpg

[MikeD]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FoEdy_Vy_V4

[SpeedyChix]

Ride trails similar to you. I'm at what I'd consider the short end of the spectrum for a good 29er fit at 5'6". Have ridden 26, 26FS, 27.5, 29, 29FS, mullet 26"x4" front and a 27.5x2.3 rear (some of the benefits of "plus" tires).

What I'm riding now
27.5 hardtail = faster rollup to speed, great for tighter/twister courses, flickable like the 26". The flickable nature of the 27.5 is a huge plus for me.
29FS = roll over is great, carries momentum, open flowing courses, comfortablePower output needed for me to roll 29 on twisty stuff or climbs that are too long for a punchy style make light wheels key.

Based on "spirited" rides with others, 27.5+ (3"ish tire width) they are crushing all of us in the twisty stuff. Traction is amazing. Rollup is more like a 29" wheel.

If you can handle the weight of the wheels, get in some test rides on the 27.5+
Things are in flux on many design fronts right now, but the Scott 27.5+ is worth a look.

Sounds like you're sorting out the ratio of want:need. Want is a huge push when it comes to a new to us bike ; )

[zank]

Just don't try to set up a modern bike with a 90s style position. It won't be fun.

[malcolm]

Not riding tubeless and really don't want to change my position on the bike. I did ride my buddy's 29er in a parking lot a couple times. Has a short stem. Found the position to be very weird. Honestly I don't know how he finds that bike comfortable at all. I felt way too upright on it.

I can't imagine riding a mtn bike with tubes in the tires. Tubeless allows you to run pressures and obtain traction you can't even dream about with tubes, irrespective of wheel size tubeless only makes everything better.

[Matthew]

Wheels on my bike are not tubeless compatible. Got them here on the forum. They are really nice wheels, just too old for that technology. I need to find a riding buddy that is similar in size and give their bike a go on the terrain I normally ride. Then I could judge for myself. Local shops don't really have a demo program so that route will be tough to do. Thanks for chiming in Speedychix! You know exactly what the trails are like in our state and I appreciate your input. By the way, are you doing Pando September 24th.? Pretty sure I am.

[peanutgallery]

Slashed a front tire this week and rode a tube for a few days until I had the time to get a new one that I could tubeless. Front of my bike felt like it was filled with rocks. Been a while and I couldn't stand it

I can't imagine riding a mtn bike with tubes in the tires. Tubeless allows you to run pressures and obtain traction you can't even dream about with tubes, irrespective of wheel size tubeless only makes everything better.

[malcolm]

Slashed a front tire this week and rode a tube for a few days until I had the time to get a new one that I could tubeless. Front of my bike felt like it was filled with rocks. Been a while and I couldn't stand it

I hear you. I rented a 27.5 top of the line carbon giant with xtr components in park city a couple years ago and it was tubed. I asked and the mechanic said at the time all rentals were tubed. As nice as park city was the bike just never felt right and I gained a new appreciation for tubless. Tubeless mtn for me has been one of the biggest differences I've ever felt in my lifetime of cycling.

[Mshue]

27plus is a game changer. I think it discredits the idea that tire and rim weight make a massive difference in how fast you can ride. Traction and a conforming tire (i.e. cushion) seem to trump weight. How do I know? Riders are going faster on plus. The clock doesn't lie. I think there are parallels to 650Bx42 becoming more and more popular on the road-ish bikes. Smaller diameter rim, bigger volume tire, happier and faster riders. IMHO of course.

I think this is spot on. A little over a week ago I chanced upon an Ibis demo day at John Muir in the Southern Kettles in Wisconsin. I had hoped to demo a Ripley to compare it to the rental full suspension 29er that I had spent the previous hour on, but the Ripley was already out so I rode the Mojo 3 all carbon full suspension 27.5+. Wow! Game changer indeed! I was comfortable on the bike from the first pedal stroke and substantially faster as my riding companion could attest (that just means he didn't have to wait as long for me as usual). The big round tire profile inspired confidence and had grip for days. It might be the most fun I've ever had on a bike.