could this tour be clean?

[Fixed]

bro do you think the french have scared the boys straight ?
cheers

[Cary Ford]

Absolutely not.

[bostondrunk]

Absolutely not.
ditto

[Climb01742]

i do wonder about this: the tour goes into spain this year. could part of the teams' and the tour's motivation for "suspending" suspected riders before the tour started be that spanish authorities warned...once you enter spain, we're busting or holding for questioning any riders mentioned in connection with Fuentes? did the tour want to avoid seeing jan in cuffs or in the back of a police car, or team hotels raided at midnight?

my gut is, spain would have done something on spanish soil had the tour not acted. and it wouldn't have been pretty TV.

[Ginger]

But the tour hasn't acted...has it.

the teams did.

I suspect it is cleaner than previous years, but plan to see some late night hotel raids...

[Too Tall]

G-d love you, a true optimist. My world for an honest man. YOU dat man, man :)

Scared straight. chuckle.

[BBB]

The doctor at the centre of this scandal has said more of his 'patients' are currently riding in the TdF. And presumably this guy was not the only one offering 'treatment' to pro cyclists in Europe? So no, not clean, but maybe cleaner.

[Ray]

Naaahhh. It's a few guys cleaner. I'll believe ANY tour is clean when the ghost of Anquetil comes to me and tells me it is.

-Ray

[Too Tall]

Anybody thinking "Spa Holiday" in Italy next March? It's a buyers market :)

[obtuse]

bro do you think the french have scared the boys straight ?
cheers


you wouldn't think so but explain jimmy caspar winning anything much less a field sprint? that guy has finished behind me in a race for christ's sake. they're cleaner than normal imho bro.

obtuse

[saab2000]

It'll only be clean when it becomes cool to be clean and uncool to be anything else. Last time I had any contact with some dudes over there, about 3 years ago, it was still a joke and the smirks were all over the place.

If this sport is going to be clean, what is happening now is exactly what needs to happen.

I don't know if the big dogs Ullrich and/or Basso are guilty or not. But as long as the big dogs can do what they want without fear there will never be any change.

Now that really big name riders are falling there will be fear among the rest. Only fear of complete banishment and financial ruin will ever change anything. And then only when it becomes unacceptable within the peloton to be on anything stronger than an asperin.

So there.

[atmo]

I'll believe ANY tour is clean when the ghost of Anquetil comes to me and tells me it is.

-Ray
cuz -
can you get to luz ardidan and chalk this
on the macadam by next thursday atmo?

[Archibald]

I'll believe ANY tour is clean when the ghost of Anquetil comes to me and tells me it is.

-Ray
"Anquetil never hid that he took drugs - a common practice at the time - and in a debate with a government minister on French television said that only a fool would imagine it was possible to ride Bordeaux-Paris on just water. Anquetil argued that professional riders were workers and had the same right to treat their pains as, say, a geography teacher. It was an argument many found increasingly hard to support as more riders were reported to have died or suffered health problems through drug-related incidents."

More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Anquetil

Sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it? Anquetil would more likely tell you that drug use is justified. 1957 or 2007, as long as there is big money to be made in pro cycling, there will be drugs & cheating. It's a shame and it degrades the accomplishments of those who race clean but its reality is unavoidable. Until all drugs are made with a marker to signal their use, we'll never know if those who ride and win are clean or not. In other words, it's not going to happen in our lifetimes.

[keno]

If I'm the tooth fairy.

"When I consider life, 'tis all a cheat;
Yet, fool'd with hope, men favor the deceit;
Trust on, and think tomorrow will repay.
Tomorrow's falser than the former day."

John Dryden 1631-1700

keno

[Ray]

"Anquetil never hid that he took drugs
Exactly - he's the only one I'd trust enough to believe it if he told me it was clean. And he isn't talking, but I think his talking again is FAR more likely than seeing a truly clean Tour.

cuz -
can you get to luz ardidan and chalk this
on the macadam by next thursday atmo?
If we start taking a collection now...

-Ray

[victoryfactory]

you wouldn't think so but explain jimmy caspar winning anything much less a field sprint? that guy has finished behind me in a race for christ's sake. they're cleaner than normal imho bro.

obtuse

So, has it come to this?
If a guy has a good day and wins in a surprise, he must be doping?
I guess it's hard to disagree with this cynical approach.
But it's sad. It can't be good for the "sport".
I wonder how many well heeled corporate sponsors will bail this season?
(I think Phonak has already announced)
I wonder if the lack of sponsor $$ will ultimately be the end of big time
pro cycling, and if a cleaner, smaller, version will rise from the ashes?

If people really were bothered by the doping, they could solve the problem
by putting pressure on sponsors, no $$ no teams. Less $$ means less races,
shorter races, less pressure on the riders, etc.

Just a thought.

VF


VF

[Fixed]

bro i 'm kinda of dumb but i think ob. ment it the other way around
cheers

[Too Tall]

.

[Avispa]

...It's a few guys cleaner. I'll believe ANY tour [or Giro, or Vuelta, or Classic] is clean when the ghost of Anquetil comes to me and tells me it is.

Ray my man! This is so well said that I may have to use your words for my next signature on the forum!

Now, guys, we are all thinking/talking about this Puerto thing with the Fuentes' list... Can you think what a gold mine would have been to have Ferrari's list? I think the whole damn sport would have been cancelled for a year if we knew this one!

No, wait, the Tour de Finger Lakes and the Serotta Owners Event would still be held :D :D

[zeroking17]

<snip>Now, guys, we are all thinking/talking about this Puerto thing with the Fuentes' list... Can you think what a gold mine would have been to have Ferrari's list? I think the whole damn sport would have been cancelled for a year if we knew this one!



Is Max Testa still involved with American pro cycling? He was very visible as team doctor for 7-11, but I've kind of lost track of him lately. Does he work with Discovery riders?


.

[victoryfactory]

Fixed;

ok, i get it now

VF

[ada@prorider.or]

Is Max Testa still involved with American pro cycling? He was very visible as team doctor for 7-11, but I've kind of lost track of him lately. Does he work with Discovery riders?

.

testa i heard they decleared him a saint in reno!

[swoop]

Is Max Testa still involved with American pro cycling? He was very visible as team doctor for 7-11, but I've kind of lost track of him lately. Does he work with Discovery riders?


.


max is levi's coach. he is very active but has a very small 99% elite clientelle (one of which is a team mate of mine). you woudln't believe how precise his workouts are.. to the second to the watt with the funkiest intervals you've ever seen.

he's a smart dude. i was in the car coming back from a race (mclane pacific).. and my teammate was a little bummed out and max gave him this gem: 'a cat 2 race is in many ways harder than a pro race because you aren't racing against a few other teams.. every guy in the race is a team unto himself. it's like rcing against a 120 teams'. that's the best description of category racing i've ever heard.

[Elefantino]

Now there's a dustup because, at least according to one report, Leipheimer stayed at the same hotel as Michele Ferrari last year in Tenerife.

[atmo]

Now there's a dustup because, at least according to one report, Leipheimer stayed at the same hotel as Michele Ferrari last year in Tenerife.

ferrari is levi's, er, hairdresser atmo.

[swoop]

we'll, levi would never... i mean there might be one or two bad apples.. but to suggest that doping is endemic to the sport would be silly.
i once stayed in the same hotel as anna nicole smith... does that mean i have traces of 'trimspa baby' and pain killers in me blood. (read again and slur all the words).
contest time!
who have you stayed in the same hotel with and what's it done to you?

[Too Tall]

Can't name names...however ear plugs du rigor' .

"Roy, yew kewit beatin' tha dawg git in herenow".

Texas :rolleyes: Thin walls :rolleyes: I'll never be the same.

[MartyE]

. . .
i once stayed in the same hotel as anna nicole smith... does that mean i have traces of 'trimspa baby' and pain killers in me blood. (read again and slur all the words).



So you're the baby's father? is that what you're telling us or is it
Levi is the baby's father?

[swoop]

worse.. cary ford.. or whatever is his pseudonym here.. has convinced his 4 year old daughter that i am levi. (there is a striking and unfortuneate resemblence but i am still in denial about the hairline and well.. odessa is hot even if she likes animals too much).

so when the tour is on tv... i get mad love. that is disturbing.

[obtuse]

So, has it come to this?
If a guy has a good day and wins in a surprise, he must be doping?
I guess it's hard to disagree with this cynical approach.
But it's sad. It can't be good for the "sport".
I wonder how many well heeled corporate sponsors will bail this season?
(I think Phonak has already announced)
I wonder if the lack of sponsor $$ will ultimately be the end of big time
pro cycling, and if a cleaner, smaller, version will rise from the ashes?

If people really were bothered by the doping, they could solve the problem
by putting pressure on sponsors, no $$ no teams. Less $$ means less races,
shorter races, less pressure on the riders, etc.

Just a thought.

VF


VF

i'm saying caspar wouldn't have won if the big guys weren't riding just a bit scared.

obtuse

[rpm]

It probably means nothing, but the average speed in this year's tour is lower than those of recent years. The lower speeds haven't meant duller races. If everybody rode clean, the race would be slower, but there would be plenty of action, just as it was with Indy and Nascar when they restricted speeds.