BB30A: worst bottom bracket standard or worstest?

[bcroslin]

I'm riding a new CAAD12 with a BB30A bottom bracket and Shimano 6800 cranks and of course after a few weeks of riding the BB is creaking like crazy. I'm running the Wheels Manu BB30A adapter kit which is a really inelegant solution. I had the same issue with my Evo and ran a Praxis conversion kit and the creaks disappeared.

As of right now there is no BB30A conversion kit that I can find. Does anyone know if such a thing exists? I've also read that the Wheels BBRight conversion kit might work. Anyone have any clue?

Pressfit bottom brackets suck. I love the CAAD12 but the creaking is going to make me insane.

EDIT: IT WAS THE REAR SKEWER - I'M NOT A BRIGHT MAN JENNY BUT I KNOW HOW TO INSTALL A REAR WHEEL

[ultraman6970]

Well, after seeing a pegoretti with a busted threaded BB I dont think BB30A is a bad thing :P

Honestly, industry must stop this madness, it is just getting stooopid.

[lhuerta]

Loctite 609 or stronger (with primer) = NO CREAKS.

Give it a try.

[kramnnim]

Worst, since it is just different enough from PF30 to be really annoying.

[geordanh]

Ahahaha I had no idea there was an "a" variation on bb30. What a ***** joke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bcroslin]

Ahahaha I had no idea there was an "a" variation on bb30. What a ***** joke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A is for AWESOME

[geordanh]

I feel bad. I offered no help just laughed at your situation.

Seriously, good luck figuring it out. I do not envy you.

[kramnnim]

BBRight is a little wider than BB30a, so I think you could use the Wheels Mfg adapter along with some 24mm ID spacers on the drive side.

[eBAUMANN]

BB30 was just so awesome...that they had to make a sequel?
amazing.

I've had good luck with my pf30 frames (with quality bottom brackets) but bb30 has been nothing but trouble for me without a praxis/parlee bb.

good luck fixin that creak!

[bcroslin]

I feel bad. I offered no help just laughed at your situation.

Seriously, good luck figuring it out. I do not envy you.

If I don't laugh I might cry. Or maybe just creak.

[beeatnik]

Get some SRAM BB30 cranks. The ones with the longer spindles. Find a proper shop. Change the bearings about once a year. Creaking will go away.

https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7244/26434885143_70515f45f0_b.jpg

Just to confirm and cos I'm too lazy to search, bearings press directly into the frame on the CAAD12's, right? C clip and all?

[bicycletricycle]

loctite/epozy those things.


although that would be a deal breaker for me. I'd just sell the frame and move on.

[false_Aest]

loctite

[Louis]

Change the bearings about once a year.

Unless you're riding 10,000 miles per year, nearly all of it in slop, having to replace BB bearings every year must surely be a sign of an inferior product. At least that's what I would think.

[beeatnik]

loctite

We're talking bearings not cups.

From Cannondale's website.

CAAD12:
FRAME

CAAD12 Disc, SmartFormed 6069 Alloy, SPEED SAVE, BB30a, Di2 Ready, flat-mount disc


EVO:
FRAME

SuperSix EVO, BallisTec Hi-MOD Carbon, Di2 Compatible,SPEED SAVE, PressFit BB30a

And, ya, I know there are 4000 types of Loctite.

[bicycletricycle]

What's your point? You don't think the proper adhesive will work on bearings?

[beeatnik]

^I've never heard of anyone using loctite on a BB30 frame. That is, a frame machined with high tolerances w/ a groove for a C-clip. The bearings are simply pressed in. Now, with PF30 or other variations of pressfit where the cup is pressed into the bare shell, that's another story.

Or put another way, would you use loctite on a CK headset?

[bicycletricycle]

In fact, I have used loctite retaining compound (http://na.henkel-adhesives.com/retaining-compound-14963.htm) on a king headset that had a little bit of a loose fit, not rattling around in the headtube but I could push it in with my had with a little effort. Worked fine.

It is made specifically for these types of applications. Won't take up huge gaps but should help things stay in one place/stop creaking.

Or maybe it won't but I would say it's worth a try.


A little bit of info about retaining compound.

"LOCTITE® retaining compounds secure bearings, bushings and cylindrical parts into housings or onto shafts


Retaining compounds have found wide acceptance as a standard method for assembling press- and slip-fitted parts. Retaining compounds, a type of anaerobic adhesive, fill the “inner space” between components and cure to form a strong precision assembly.


They increase maximum load transmission capability and uniform stress distribution and eliminate fretting corrosion. Applied as a liquid, they allow 100% contact between mating metal surfaces, eliminating the need for more expensive designs, time consuming machining and even the the use of mechanical methods."

[lhuerta]

^I've never heard of anyone using loctite on a BB30 frame. That is, a frame machined with high tolerances w/ a groove for a C-clip. The bearings are simply pressed in. Now, with PF30 or other variations of pressfit where the cup is pressed into the bare shell, that's another story.

Or put another way, would you use loctite on a CK headset?http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/bottom-bracket-standards-1#article-section-1

Nope....even Cannondale recommends using Loctite 609 with BB30 (yes, the type with bearings in alum shell with c-clip as well as those with press fit cups). Even Park Tools publishes a tutorial recommending Loctite 609.

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/bottom-bracket-standards-1#article-section-1

While BB30 and other press fit BBs are not perfect, I am convinced that we would probably hear 90% fewer gripes about creaking BBs if "mechanics" would simply install correctly on the first go around.

[beeatnik]

^Well, then, BB30 sucks.

[kramnnim]

Wait...the CAAD12 uses bearings pressed directly into the frame, with the circlips, etc?

[Neil]

I'm having a similar fight with my CAAD12 at the moment, I am using native BB30 cranks though - Hollowgram SiSl with the 109mm axle.

I've installed the bottom bracket assembly as well as I know how, which is basically following the instructions to the letter, and it still creaks.

However, typing this I am wondering if it might not be chainring bolts.

Anyway, I can check the torque on those tonight, I've booked the bike in to have a shop which I trust clean the BB out with their ream (BB30 specific Park Tools ream) just to ensure that it's not a tolerence issue, if that doesn't work I'm going to use Loctite 7649 followed by 609.

If that doesn't work I'll throw the bike in the Thames.

[iPaul]

I've read some good success stories with this one. Worth investigating.

https://www.c-bear.com/en/products/bb30a

[chiasticon]

Nope....even Cannondale recommends using Loctite 609 with BB30 (yes, the type with bearings in alum shell with c-clip as well as those with press fit cups). Even Park Tools publishes a tutorial recommending Loctite 609.yeah, I believe it's been recommended by specialized as well, at one point. google it, you'll see tons of people recommending it, including manufacturers. main purpose is just to take up the gaps, if there are any, between bearing and shell.

OP: I agree with beeatnik's post suggesting using BB30 cranks. I have no experience with BB30a, but I've had two BB30 bikes and a PF30 bike that didn't creak with a Sram BB30 crank. I *did* loctite in the bearings, however. I replaced about once a year and did a clean/re-lube every couple months, but I also rode the bikes around 10k miles/year and I was just buying the cheap bearings. that said, I'm happier running the Praxis conversion to GXP and it sucks they don't have a BB30a version.

[avalonracing]

Stop the madness! I'm all about new tech but the BSC bottom bracket just quietly worked.

[buddybikes]

Wouldn't the entire problem (except perhaps of few grams) if a new "BSC 2" standard came out that was a larger threaded BB to increase shell size for new overside tubes?

[sandyrs]

BB30 2: This Time There's No Conversion Kit

[sandyrs]

Wouldn't the entire problem (except perhaps of few grams) if a new "BSC 2" standard came out that was a larger threaded BB to increase shell size for new overside tubes?

This exists, is called T47, and is not widely adopted because (among other reasons) pressfit bb's are still cheaper to manufacture for big companies.

[thirdcog]

Going to follow this as I'm selling off gear/bike to grab a caad12 right now. Current bike has bb30 and I haven't had any creaking. I may be the only person alive with such luck. Was hoping the bb30a wouldn't exhibit problems.

[Neil]

I've never had a BB30 bike that has creaked before, or that I could not resolve the creaking. I will make this one silent, although I will admit that it's been the most challenging frame I've had so far with regards to this.

I'm not actually sure it's the BB, here are my thoughts on it this morning:

I don't think it's the axle moving laterally, it's shimmed to ~0.3mm of float which is controlled by a highly compressed wave washer, and the noise and behaviour hasn't changed with different numbers of shims.

There is slack in the drivetrain- as you push down on the pedal from a standstill you can feel this slack being taken up before you put drive through the chain, accompanied by "cra-crack!", if you back off at once and freewheel you get a "ping!" As whatever it is springs back into the "slack" condition.

So there is something which moves under load (300 watts up I would say), and returns to its previous state at high speed when load is removed.

I'm wondering whether this might be chainring bolts now. I just can't see the bearings moving in the frame in the way that they would need to in order to produce that "slack" feeling.

[GregL]

Going to follow this as I'm selling off gear/bike to grab a caad12 right now. Current bike has bb30 and I haven't had any creaking. I may be the only person alive with such luck. Was hoping the bb30a wouldn't exhibit problems.
Same situation here. I have a CAAD9 from the last year of domestic C'dale production. BB30 with Wheels Manufacturing delrin adapter and Shimano Ultegra crank. Silent and spins smoothly with minimal maintenance. I add grease to the bearings once or twice a year, depending on how much rain I ride in.

Regards,
Greg

[beeatnik]

Wait...the CAAD12 uses bearings pressed directly into the frame, with the circlips, etc?

We talkin practice

[TEMPLE]

I had a similar problem with a PF30 BB on an aluminum frame mountain bike. It had a creak/ping sound under power, and I was sure it was the BB that was to blame (I pulled the bike apart, two mechanics did as well, the company rep chimed in, etc.) Nothing helped. Turns out the frame was cracked (one of the mechanics discovered this after stripping the bike bare and scrutinizing every part for, apparently, four angry-at-Temple hours). New bike, too (so warranty covered it). Anyways, it was the frame itself that was making the noise and when I got a replacement frame, that solved the problem.

[Ralph]

I have a CAAD 10 with BB30. Would have bet you anything it had a BB creak. And I'm a fairly good home mechanic.

Swapped out the rear skewer for another....creak gone. Who would have thought?

[bcroslin]

^Well, then, BB30 sucks.

I think I already said that ;)

[bcroslin]

Going to follow this as I'm selling off gear/bike to grab a caad12 right now. Current bike has bb30 and I haven't had any creaking. I may be the only person alive with such luck. Was hoping the bb30a wouldn't exhibit problems.

My guess is BB30 with a BB30 crank = no creaking but I'm running a Shimano crank with adapter

[azrider]

Ugh....like another has posted I too am waiting to buy new C12 (but waiting till Interbije to see if there is an improvement on color choices) so this sucks.

Question for OP: did bike come with Cdales hologram cranks originally??

[Neil]

I need to retract my (now hopefully proved baseless) accusations of creaking against my BB30a - the lockring which holds the spider on was only just above finger tight. It's now at 53Nm with Loctite 243, and hopefully from now onward we shall have no creaking.

[chiasticon]

Wouldn't the entire problem (except perhaps of few grams) if a new "BSC 2" standard came out that was a larger threaded BB to increase shell size for new overside tubes?when I briefly owned a Gaulzetti Corsa and had to have the ISP chopped, slotted and reamed by a framebuilder, we were BS-ing and discussing BB standards. he said while he was working on the frame, he could change the PF30 shell over to T47 (which is what you describe) if I wanted. he quoted $200 though and I'd already purchased an $80 Praxis BB adapter, so I didn't bother. still...cool that it could be done.

[bcroslin]

We talkin practice

we talkin bout practice.... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI)

my favorite sports presser ever.

I now return you to the previous thread concerning BB30A sucking.

[MaraudingWalrus]

bummed you've had difficulty with this frame.


I've spoken to the folks at Praxis and WheelsMFG. They each have "something in the works" but neither gave a time-frame on actual materialisation of the product. I think there is something from BBinfinite as well, but they claim it only works with electronic shifting.

[kramnnim]

What would keep it from working with mechanical shifting? Internal cable routing?

[MaraudingWalrus]

What would keep it from working with mechanical shifting? Internal cable routing?


The way the rear derailleur cable is routed through the bb area. Or so they say.

[thirdcog]

I need to retract my (now hopefully proved baseless) accusations of creaking against my BB30a - the lockring which holds the spider on was only just above finger tight. It's now at 53Nm with Loctite 243, and hopefully from now onward we shall have no creaking.

Ha! That's good news. Still....optimistically following this.

I *have* had rear skewer and also saddle/seatpost creaking that amazingly sounded like it was coming from BB before.

Here's to what will hopefully be a non-issue. :beer:

[bcroslin]

Ha! That's good news. Still....optimistically following this.

I *have* had rear skewer and also saddle/seatpost creaking that amazingly sounded like it was coming from BB before.

Here's to what will hopefully be a non-issue. :beer:

So I went out and really wrenched the rear skewer down tonight and took it on a short ride and the creak is gone. Keep in mind I was riding in flip-flops but I may have fixed my "issue." I'm happy to eat my words and look like a dummy if the creak is not BB related. I'll report back tomorrow.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I have spoken extensively on the phone with Cannondale warranty guys. They swear hand on heart that they have had zero creaky BBs on the Caad12 or the SuperSix EVO II (2016 and forward on the himod, 2017 standard mod) that they were unable to solve without resorting to loctite.

Allegedly.

[Ralph]

Or even try another skewer.

[GuyGadois]

you know I have never had any problems with these bad boys. I am still puzzled about the migrating to the endless Super Deluxe BB.XXX. Are people breaking bottom brackets or having difficulty with the strength of their "old" bottom brackets?

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/272197964661-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

[beeatnik]

^They spin real nice but, ya know, some of us have 1500w 1s power.

[CiclistiCliff]

you know I have never had any problems with these bad boys. I am still puzzled about the migrating to the endless Super Deluxe BB.XXX. Are people breaking bottom brackets or having difficulty with the strength of their "old" bottom brackets?

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/272197964661-0-1/s-l1000.jpg


How many 'HALP MY BB IS STUCK' threads are in the first five pages of this forum? :fight:

I work at a shop which has been named Cannondale's largest North America dealer a few times in the last few years and yes, these will creak for a few reasons:

1)Sometimes they come assembled with almost no grease on the spindle/bearing interface
2)The outer race spins in the frame or the tolerances are tight enough but not good enough for a good bearing fit, so Loctite 609 is used
3)Lockrings on SI cranks are loose
4)The crank arm bolts are under torqued.

I pull the SI cranks/spindles on every one and reinstall and they don't come back in for creaking. It's standard practice at our shop when building them as it's one less thing a customer can complain about in the immediate future.

If installed properly, they're maintenance free for a year or two depending on riding conditions and how bikes are cleaned.

[bicycletricycle]

I agree that both threaded and press fit bottom bracket solutions have their own quirks.

The frozen BB threads you refer to are from misuse, some one can also damage/destroy a press fit shell on accident so I don't think it really matters.

Sounds like you work on a lot of these things, curious about how they wear, having a hard bearing pressed into a softer shell always seemed like it could cause some problems over time to me.

I worked at a cannondale shop in the caad6-caad9 days. Sold plenty of hologram bikes, had a few customers with high mileage bikes, no problems but the sample size was small.

Most of the old press fit bikes are ti or steel so they don't help much as long term data points.

(except that they are considerably less valuable because of the lack of available cranks for them which may or may not be true with these new standards, if they can settle on one and stop launching a new standard every year or two)

Anyways.......

Curious about long term problems, perhaps the press fit loosening up over time? Do you guys have a ream or any other tools to clean up old loctite or oxidation?

It always worried me, anything goes wrong and the frame is garbage, that press fit is not repairable in any way if it ever loosens up.

Thanks for the info and letting us know how you have been able to run these bikes quietly and reliably for your customers.



One more thing, you say above that sometimes the race is spinning in the frame because of tolerance problems and that loctite is required, what would be loose enough to warrant a replacement? Seems to me like a bearing loose enough to have its outer race floating around would be defective.

One last thing, does your shop have precision measuring equipment? Digital calipers or better yet some snap gauges and micrometers? I am really curious about the actual amount of interference in the press fit as well as how round they are. I started measuring head tubes recently and discovered that many of them are much more out of round than I would have imagined. Makes sense, the areas of the head tube that are reinforced by the adjoining tubes are stiffer.

Was thinking that perhaps some of these press fit bottom bracket shells might not be very round.


How many 'HALP MY BB IS STUCK' threads are in the first five pages of this forum? :fight:

I work at a shop which has been named Cannondale's largest North America dealer a few times in the last few years and yes, these will creak for a few reasons:

1)Sometimes they come assembled with almost no grease on the spindle/bearing interface
2)The outer race spins in the frame or the tolerances are tight enough but not good enough for a good bearing fit, so Loctite 609 is used
3)Lockrings on SI cranks are loose
4)The crank arm bolts are under torqued.

I pull the SI cranks/spindles on every one and reinstall and they don't come back in for creaking. It's standard practice at our shop when building them as it's one less thing a customer can complain about in the immediate future.

If installed properly, they're maintenance free for a year or two depending on riding conditions and how bikes are cleaned.

[Neil]

I work at a shop which has been named Cannondale's largest North America dealer a few times in the last few years and yes, these will creak for a few reasons:

1)Sometimes they come assembled with almost no grease on the spindle/bearing interface
2)The outer race spins in the frame or the tolerances are tight enough but not good enough for a good bearing fit, so Loctite 609 is used
3)Lockrings on SI cranks are loose
4)The crank arm bolts are under torqued.



Interesting - I (hope like hell, not thrown a leg over it this morning) that this is the case for mine.

My thinking here:

I'm 100% certain that the BB is installed correctly, I followed the tech-doc to the letter, used shop quality tools and grease and I hope that I'm not an idiot.

The creaking only occurs when load is applied through the chain, i.e. rear brake on, right crank at 3 O'clock, 85kg stood on the pedal/1,000 watts away from the lights. There's also perceptible "give" before full tension on the chain is achieved.

If you rotate the crank to 6 O'clock and put full body weight on it there's a) no noise at all and b) no movement.

Finally, the lockring was barely above finger tight, and one side of the crenellations on the spider which fit around the splines on the crank were polished - the anodising had been worn off on those faces.

I wish I'd thought to check that the shop had installed the lock-ring according to spec before I rebuilt the BB three times!

I think that this is actually BB30's biggest problem - it's got such a reputation that people blame it first (myself included) and if this latest issue turns out to have been the lock-ring then that means I have never had a BB30 issue that was actually down to BB30, and I've had a lot of bikes that have seen a lot of miles with that type of BB.

[buddybikes]

If I had a new frame made by high end builder (wife would shoot me) I would defintely go with T47 and King BB.

[oldpotatoe]

Interesting - I (hope like hell, not thrown a leg over it this morning) that this is the case for mine.

My thinking here:

I'm 100% certain that the BB is installed correctly, I followed the tech-doc to the letter, used shop quality tools and grease and I hope that I'm not an idiot.

The creaking only occurs when load is applied through the chain, i.e. rear brake on, right crank at 3 O'clock, 85kg stood on the pedal/1,000 watts away from the lights. There's also perceptible "give" before full tension on the chain is achieved.

If you rotate the crank to 6 O'clock and put full body weight on it there's a) no noise at all and b) no movement.

Finally, the lockring was barely above finger tight, and one side of the crenellations on the spider which fit around the splines on the crank were polished - the anodising had been worn off on those faces.

I wish I'd thought to check that the shop had installed the lock-ring according to spec before I rebuilt the BB three times!

I think that this is actually BB30's biggest problem - it's got such a reputation that people blame it first (myself included) and if this latest issue turns out to have been the lock-ring then that means I have never had a BB30 issue that was actually down to BB30, and I've had a lot of bikes that have seen a lot of miles with that type of BB.

Loose crank arm or something going on in rear wheel. Try a different wheel?

[Neil]

It was the lockring, total silence achieved. Scorchio!

[reggiebaseball]

These threads are always fascinating, they are informative about the general nature of fourms... and about user error and about crowd mentality

they usually start with one person reporting a "potential" issue,
then about 5 people pile on with "similar issues" and identify the "evil culprit" ie BB30A.

then about 50 people pile on with rants about issues they have "heard about" from a friend, read about, etc. and how terrible things are.

Leading the average reader to say, 'wow 5 pages of people having terrible squeaking problems with their Cannondale BB, there is an issue there'

Then by page 5, every one of the original issues reporters has now confirmed that the issue was something else (lock ring, skewer, improperly torqued bolts).

End results - 5 pages of speculation and complaints about a non-issue, that really exists more in the minds of people who have no direct experience, than in the actual real world.


But I am not sure unless you had the time and energy to read through every post that you would get this takeaway.

Anyhow I thought it was interesting because recently I have been collecting parts for a Cannaondale Evo build for my mechanic, and every two days I find something on the internet - so I will say something like "do you want me to provide ilinks so the brake housing does not chatter in the top tube ports, I read there are issues" and he will tell me "stop reading the internet, I can build the Evo just fine with normal cables"
or I will say "how about we use super special grease and an extra washer for the BB tolerance issues causing squeaking" and he will tell me "stop reading the internet, I can build the Evo just fine without the BB squeaking"

[bcroslin]

It was my rear skewer. :crap:

Feel free to call me names. I'll start: I'm a tool.

[Hls2k6]

I'm on a CAAD 12 this year & I like pretty much everything about it.

Also: www.bbinfinite.com

[reggiebaseball]

It was my rear skewer. :crap:

Feel free to call me names. I'll start: I'm a tool.

No, you shouldn't beat yourself up, you asked a valid question about a valid squeak.

Yours was the skewer, Neil's was a lockring issue, and somebody else had to torque their bolts.

I wasn't trying to call you out, it was more a comment on "group thinking" and crowds.

I actually think you and Neil did a very VALUABLE thing, you actually reported back that it was something else and resolved- quite often that never happens and it leaves the threads so people think the BB was at fault still.

[CiclistiCliff]

As much as people may complain and speculate, these are honestly fantastic bikes. It's extremely important to follow correct procedures when installing any bottom bracket.

[bcroslin]

As much as people may complain and speculate, these are honestly fantastic bikes. It's extremely important to follow correct procedures when installing any bottom bracket.

Totally agree. I love my CAAD12 and I loved my EVO before it.

[Elefantino]

^Well, then, BB30 sucks.
Word(s).

[11.4]

At the risk of a little thread drift, how does one install a standard Dura Ace or Ultegra current generation crank on the bike? That extra 5 mm spacing on the non-drive side seems to mess it up. And what happens with a Quarq Elsa alloy crankset? I've seen the Wheels Manufacturing kits, but I'm not sure they actually end up putting the crank arms in the right place for symmetry. Has anyone messed with this enough to get a solid solution?

[kramnnim]

This is supposed to work...

http://wheelsmfg.com/bbright-adapter-for-shimano-cranks.html

You'd move the spacers around to get the L/R spacing correct.

[CiclistiCliff]

I agree that both threaded and press fit bottom bracket solutions have their own quirks.

The frozen BB threads you refer to are from misuse, some one can also damage/destroy a press fit shell on accident so I don't think it really matters.

Sounds like you work on a lot of these things, curious about how they wear, having a hard bearing pressed into a softer shell always seemed like it could cause some problems over time to me.

I worked at a cannondale shop in the caad6-caad9 days. Sold plenty of hologram bikes, had a few customers with high mileage bikes, no problems but the sample size was small.

Most of the old press fit bikes are ti or steel so they don't help much as long term data points.

(except that they are considerably less valuable because of the lack of available cranks for them which may or may not be true with these new standards, if they can settle on one and stop launching a new standard every year or two)

Anyways.......

Curious about long term problems, perhaps the press fit loosening up over time? Do you guys have a ream or any other tools to clean up old loctite or oxidation?

It always worried me, anything goes wrong and the frame is garbage, that press fit is not repairable in any way if it ever loosens up.

Thanks for the info and letting us know how you have been able to run these bikes quietly and reliably for your customers.



One more thing, you say above that sometimes the race is spinning in the frame because of tolerance problems and that loctite is required, what would be loose enough to warrant a replacement? Seems to me like a bearing loose enough to have its outer race floating around would be defective.

One last thing, does your shop have precision measuring equipment? Digital calipers or better yet some snap gauges and micrometers? I am really curious about the actual amount of interference in the press fit as well as how round they are. I started measuring head tubes recently and discovered that many of them are much more out of round than I would have imagined. Makes sense, the areas of the head tube that are reinforced by the adjoining tubes are stiffer.

Was thinking that perhaps some of these press fit bottom bracket shells might not be very round.

We see a lot of 2010-2013 BB30 of all brands bikes that are now what I call EasyFit30 frames from previous improperly installed/removed bearings or simply lack of maintenance which lead to a nearly frozen bearing (typically driveside) which then spins a bit or shimmies side to side in the frame. I've seen far too many tri bikes with dead BB30 bearings because they are ridden and generally not cared for all too well. The hydration mix acts like a gluing agent, seeps into the bearing, flushes any grease over time and locks them solid. It's very easy to spot when you pop the bearings out as there's the factory tooling marks and then nearly polished areas (high/low spots). These are generally repairs that lead to new GXP/Hollowtech cranks and Praxis BB30 adapters.

As for BB30A, different tolerance/initial install issues tend to cause different sounds. The SI cranks use a spindle that's very soft aluminum, tapered and if installed in the wrong direction will destroy the non-driveside bearing due to the taper of the spindle. If installed dry, I've seen them gouged with zero miles due to the steel inner race digging into the spindle. The best part about these SI cranks is that you drive the spindle in with a mallet.....genius!

As for out of round bottom bracket shells, I haven't seen too many in the last while. It's typically the SI spindles being undersized and not interfacing with the bearings correctly.

The other reason why we pull the bearings on the BB30(A) frames is that we've found the bearings are sometimes not pressed in all the way, giving false readings when torquing the crank bolts to spec.

For the Loctite side of things, it's always 603. I misspoke earlier when I wrote 609. 603 is thinner and holds well. Also resistant to chemicals, grease and other contaminants. In my time dealing with Felt tt/tri bikes, C'Dales, Specialized tri/tt rigs I've only had to replace the bottom bracket with a Praxis and crankset a half dozen times. Bearings need to literally fall out to warrant replacing frames. Lastly, I believe it's the Wheels Manufacturing bearings that run slightly oversized. Juuuuuuuuust slightly.

I can't embed the video, but here's a 2012ish Tarmac with 'EasyFit30'. Note the discolored bb shell in the video, dark in the center and brighter on the edges.

https://www.instagram.com/p/3u2cxgzTdm/?taken-by=motorbacon&hl=en

[bicycletricycle]

thanks for the in depth reply.

that video of the tarmac is a heart breaker.

curious.

after coming to terms with the ins and outs of various press standards and the technical issues/requirements associated with them....


what do you think of the t47 standard? would you prefer an oversized solution with threads and bearings in cups or do you think the benefit (lower weight I guess?) of a direct pressfit outweighs the longevity/repairability of a threaded solution.

I know thread can be crossthreaded but they can also be repaired (sometimes)

those easy press shells can be repaired with more and more glue I guess, so maybe that is a good enough solution? Or replaced with adapters for a smaller bearing.

anyways, what do you think?

I am genuinely curious to know, I think that the advantageous that come with a 30mm aluminum spindle are worth the stretch to bigger shells, especially in big tube/monocoque frames, curious about what an experienced mechanic thinks about the T47 solution.

P.S. Maybe they should start making those bearings slightly oversized for stretched frames.


P.P.S. I have heard that some triathletes urinate on their bicycles, perhaps that is mixing with the drink mix and the salt water as an extra corrosion catalyst.

[CiclistiCliff]

thanks for the in depth reply.

that video of the tarmac is a heart breaker.

curious.

after coming to terms with the ins and outs of various press standards and the technical issues/requirements associated with them....


what do you think of the t47 standard? would you prefer an oversized solution with threads and bearings in cups or do you think the benefit (lower weight I guess?) of a direct pressfit outweighs the longevity/repairability of a threaded solution.

I know thread can be crossthreaded but they can also be repaired (sometimes)

those easy press shells can be repaired with more and more glue I guess, so maybe that is a good enough solution? Or replaced with adapters for a smaller bearing.

anyways, what do you think?

I am genuinely curious to know, I think that the advantageous that come with a 30mm aluminum spindle are worth the stretch to bigger shells, especially in big tube/monocoque frames, curious about what an experienced mechanic thinks about the T47 solution.

P.S. Maybe they should start making those bearings slightly oversized for stretched frames.


P.P.S. I have heard that some triathletes urinate on their bicycles, perhaps that is mixing with the drink mix and the salt water as an extra corrosion catalyst.

I think T47 is a solution for a lot of the custom frames that were built around PF30 and customers couldn't handle the creaking on their artisinal frame so Vanilla/Argonaut cried to King and King created a solution to a problem that should have never existed outside the realm of plastic bikes designed by a team of engineers....But if it works, awesome. Also an inexpensive option compared to buying a new crank and whatnot.

Glue can potentially work its way into a bearing during install, but it's a temporary solution. I bet there's some people out there who have done it themselves, but as a shop we actually want to see you out on your bike and enjoying it, not stressing about creaks and potential issues.

I think 30mm spindles exist for a reason, one which I don't understand quite yet. Shimano and Campagnolo don't offer anything that large and they use steel.

Tribikes are terrible. The hydration systems, the mixes, the lack of maintenance, the sweat from long training rides and general lack of knowledgeable owners leads to a lot of destroyed bikes. Many do urinate on their bikes.

Here's a video (https://www.instagram.com/p/BDopEeZTTdk/?taken-by=motorbacon&hl=en) of a Quintana Roo that 'worked fine' before I tore it down.

Or a video (https://www.instagram.com/p/73fgudTTaH/?taken-by=motorbacon&hl=en) of a Serotta being shipped out to Kona through a transport company that uses our store as a pick up/drop off

[marciero]

These threads are always fascinating, they are informative about the general nature of fourms... and about user error and about crowd mentality

they usually start with one person reporting a "potential" issue,
then about 5 people pile on with "similar issues" and identify the "evil culprit" ie BB30A.

then about 50 people pile on with rants about issues they have "heard about" from a friend, read about, etc. and how terrible things are.

Leading the average reader to say, 'wow 5 pages of people having terrible squeaking problems with their Cannondale BB, there is an issue there'

Then by page 5, every one of the original issues reporters has now confirmed that the issue was something else (lock ring, skewer, improperly torqued bolts).

End results - 5 pages of speculation and complaints about a non-issue, that really exists more in the minds of people who have no direct experience, than in the actual real world.


But I am not sure unless you had the time and energy to read through every post that you would get this takeaway.
...

Prescient, as the OP confirms (in the very next post, no less) that it was skewer. Still, I read this thread with interest-some good comments-thanks Ciclisticliff in particular, and many, in fact, with direct experience. The take-away for me is that proper installation is paramount, and that many lbs types, and even factory mechanics, are not doing the work properly.
My first and only BB30-type bike is a Cannondale tandem that I purchase last year, fully aware that "issues" were discussed on the internet, mostly just from looking at titles of threads and one or two posts. So far so good, but may be purchasing proper tools to do maintenance work myself.

[oldpotatoe]

I think T47 is a solution for a lot of the custom frames that were built around PF30 and customers couldn't handle the creaking on their artisinal frame so Vanilla/Argonaut cried to King and King created a solution to a problem that should have never existed outside the realm of plastic bikes designed by a team of engineers....But if it works, awesome. Also an inexpensive option compared to buying a new crank and whatnot.

Glue can potentially work its way into a bearing during install, but it's a temporary solution. I bet there's some people out there who have done it themselves, but as a shop we actually want to see you out on your bike and enjoying it, not stressing about creaks and potential issues.

I think 30mm spindles exist for a reason, one which I don't understand quite yet. Shimano and Campagnolo don't offer anything that large and they use steel.

Tribikes are terrible. The hydration systems, the mixes, the lack of jmaintenance, the sweat from long training rides and general lack of knowledgeable owners leads to a lot of destroyed bikes. Many do urinate on their bikes.

Here's a video (https://www.instagram.com/p/BDopEeZTTdk/?taken-by=motorbacon&hl=en) of a Quintana Roo that 'worked fine' before I tore it down.

Or a video (https://www.instagram.com/p/73fgudTTaH/?taken-by=motorbacon&hl=en) of a Serotta being shipped out to Kona through a transport company that uses our store as a pick up/drop off

Campag OverTorque is 30mm, for info.

[CiclistiCliff]

Campag OverTorque is 30mm, for info.

Woops. I stopped looking at Campag when they stopped doing UltraTorque:)

[54ny77]

pissing on your bike is no way to go through life, son.

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af151/snubbyfan/forum%20pics/GIF/John%20Belushi%20Bluto%20Animal%20House%20crushing %20a%20beer%20can%20on%20head%20-%20Imgur_zpstm4ov11h.gif


P.P.S. I have heard that some triathletes urinate on their bicycles, perhaps that is mixing with the drink mix and the salt water as an extra corrosion catalyst.

[sandyrs]

Woops. I stopped looking at Campag when they stopped doing UltraTorque:)

Nope they still do that one too.

[oldpotatoe]

Woops. I stopped looking at Campag when they stopped doing UltraTorque:)

They haven't stopped doing UltraTorque. SR/RecordChorus are UltraTorque and Athena/Potenza/Veloce are PowerTorque.

[bcroslin]

Prescient, as the OP confirms (in the very next post, no less) that it was skewer. Still, I read this thread with interest-some good comments-thanks Ciclisticliff in particular, and many, in fact, with direct experience. The take-away for me is that proper installation is paramount, and that many lbs types, and even factory mechanics, are not doing the work properly.
My first and only BB30-type bike is a Cannondale tandem that I purchase last year, fully aware that "issues" were discussed on the internet, mostly just from looking at titles of threads and one or two posts. So far so good, but may be purchasing proper tools to do maintenance work myself.

I just edited the original post to let the world know I'm a dummy who can't tighten a skewer.

[bcroslin]

pissing on your bike is no way to go through life, son.

http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af151/snubbyfan/forum%20pics/GIF/John%20Belushi%20Bluto%20Animal%20House%20crushing %20a%20beer%20can%20on%20head%20-%20Imgur_zpstm4ov11h.gif

What's wrong with triathlete's? Total weird-o's.

[Neil]

160km at just over 35km/h yesterday, with 1,400 metres of climbing in total silence. Bike was awesome.

I wish the shop had rtfm before fitting the lockring, but that's another story.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I'd thought I'd heard this from the folks at WheelsMFG when on the phone one day, but couldn't find it anywhere else to confirm.

"Wheels MFG let us in on a little trick to fit your next frame with BB30a (asymmetric). Apparently, the biggest difference between BB30a and BBright is that the 30a shell is 73mm wide while BBright is 79mm. That means you can take a BBright bottom bracket from Wheels MFG, add 6mm of cup spacers to the non-drive side, and voila. Your BBright is now a BB30a."

From this (http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/08/02/wheels-manufacturing-squeezes-bb-bearing-drift-and-sizing-guide-into-one/) bikerumor article...