I'd hate to be this mechanic...

[geordanh]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182222983911?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

At least it's one of the ugly schemes I guess.

[Tickdoc]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182222983911?_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

At least it's one of the ugly schemes I guess.

ouch. cross threading>cross chaining.

[Neil]

If you can epoxy in one set, you can epoxy in another...

Seriously though, we'd be able to fix this, I'm sure most framebuilders could do so - braze some metal into the shell and cut fresh threads in.

One coat of paint later and you're Peg is ready to go.

[Dead Man]

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/7d/7d509f07a85885735e3d039be07101f8fc2156dec3c6caa41e 14a9cbc80c8f89.jpg

[sandyrs]

omg...

Can a bb be re-threaded (I know the answer is no but the frame is my size)?

[Neil]

Yes. See my post above.

[geordanh]

http://s.quickmeme.com/img/7d/7d509f07a85885735e3d039be07101f8fc2156dec3c6caa41e 14a9cbc80c8f89.jpg

ahahahahahahaha that meme never gets old

[sandyrs]

Yes. See my post above.

:eek:

[geordanh]

:eek:

I'll retract my ****s and giggles bid. It's my size as well, but literally the only Peg scheme I genuinely hate looking at more than a crabon Trek.

[sandyrs]

I'll retract my ****s and giggles bid. It's my size as well, but literally the only Peg scheme I genuinely hate looking at more than a crabon Trek.

Haha. I wouldn't choose it new but I can handle it. If you truly despise the paint I appreciate that, but don't worry about it otherwise :beer:

[eBAUMANN]

this is so sad/pathetic that its actually kinda funny, what a bunch of morons.

just for everyones information, most high-end frames will not (and should not) require facing and chasing of the bb or head tube when they are new.
it is not normal or acceptable IMO.
do not let your LBS tell you it is needed and then charge you for it.

a surly...yea, MAYBE.
even then, you could build it up no problem without breaking out the fancy tools.

also, bottom bracket shells only need to be chased ONCE, unless the frame gets refinished and has paint/powder in the threads, or if you put loctite or something in there.
i hear these people all the time saying "oh yeah just got it back from the shop, they faced and chased everything..."
WHHHHHHHHY the hell would they need to do that?
I get it, its fun for a mechanic to break out the exotic tools that usually just hang on the wall, but its totally unnecessary.

[FlashUNC]

There's a lot I don't understand about their eBay listing.

You got some UT cups in there, but they were cross threaded AND epoxied? So now you think the only solution to run cranks is a press fit square taper crank?

Somebody needs to back away from the bike and read a Campy tech manual once in a while.

Maaaaaaaybe you can run some UT cranks in there, and they have a photo of that exact thing, but this is probably more trouble than its worth.

[sw3759]

thats pretty funny.maybe one of you guys will get a great deal on a new Peg !
now I'm real curious to see of what it will go for.i cant imagine it would go for over 2K,who knows.hope a forum member is able to steal it

[ColonelJLloyd]

If it fits you, bid. I suspect a frame builder would have a simpler solution, but I know for a fact you can just replace the BB shell. Then you could have the only BSA threaded Peg.

[chiasticon]

"marchello" :banana:

[cachagua]

I know! Come on, everybody knows that's spelled Marshmallow.

But: "press-fit", that's almost as funny. That's what's in there now! It'd be a miracle if those cups are properly aligned. Without the threads to ensure their correct position, they could be at enough of an angle that bearings would never turn. Or they'd turn, and last a week before you need a new pair. What a nightmare.

The correct repair is as stated above. Although if you didn't mind going square taper, there's always the Mavic universal-fit cartrtidge... easy to replace bearings, adjustable at both sides, actually not that bad a choice.

(Incidentally, if we're worried about spelling, English bottom bracket is actually spelled "BSC".)

[oddsaabs]

I'd bet what they did was forget it's an Italian treaded frame and ran the English left hand tap in the drive side. That would do a fine job of really screwing things up royally.

Still, it's fixable, and my size.......

[ColonelJLloyd]

(Incidentally, if we're worried about spelling, English bottom bracket is actually spelled "BSC".)


No. Both are correct. Using BSA is just giving credit where it's due. The British Small Arms company developed the standard that was later accepted as BSC. Moreover, BSA is much, much more widely used.

[CampyorBust]

I don't think this "mechanic" is a "mechanic" anymore.

[oldpotatoe]

I'd bet what they did was forget it's an Italian treaded frame and ran the English left hand tap in the drive side. That would do a fine job of really screwing things up royally.

Still, it's fixable, and my size.......

Doubt it. English tap is a lot smaller than Italian, generally slides in.

[Dead Man]

Doubt it. English tap is a lot smaller than Italian, generally slides in.

The shells aren't the same diameter??

[eBAUMANN]

The shells aren't the same diameter??

nope. they are not.

[jtakeda]

70 vs 68

[bart998]

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/bottom-brackets/grand-cru-threadless-bottom-brackets-107.html

Requires a tapered crankarm, but you're good to go!

[christian]

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/bottom-brackets/grand-cru-threadless-bottom-brackets-107.html

Requires a tapered crankarm, but you're good to go!

No, that only works on BSC shells, not Italian shells. I wouldn't buy this at any price. Small likelihood that the UT cups are aligned well enough to work for any period of time. They would have been better off putting in a square taper bottom bracket with their one attempt... at least there, you can be sure the bearings align. What a bodge.

[chasing120]

I find this a great reply in that I knew a mechanic who would routinely face & chase and for a while had me believe it was routine maintenance.

this is so sad/pathetic that its actually kinda funny, what a bunch of morons.

just for everyones information, most high-end frames will not (and should not) require facing and chasing of the bb or head tube when they are new.
it is not normal or acceptable IMO.
do not let your LBS tell you it is needed and then charge you for it.

a surly...yea, MAYBE.
even then, you could build it up no problem without breaking out the fancy tools.

also, bottom bracket shells only need to be chased ONCE, unless the frame gets refinished and has paint/powder in the threads, or if you put loctite or something in there.
i hear these people all the time saying "oh yeah just got it back from the shop, they faced and chased everything..."
WHHHHHHHHY the hell would they need to do that?
I get it, its fun for a mechanic to break out the exotic tools that usually just hang on the wall, but its totally unnecessary.

[bicycletricycle]

what kind of price u guys think it will go for?

[Joxster]

If you're going to run square taper the look out a Royce, Nadax or FAG BB then there's no issue at all

[icepick_trotsky]

This seriously isn't that big of a repair. As others have pointed out, just melt brass flux over the ruined threads and rechase them. My local framebuilder charges like $40 for that.

Or at the very least, you're getting a deal on a fork.

[Dead Man]

what kind of price u guys think it will go for?

$1975

[geordanh]

I find this a great reply in that I knew a mechanic who would routinely face & chase and for a while had me believe it was routine maintenance.

***

[paredown]

This reminds me of the guy that our shop hired who took it upon himself to mount some ski bindings and drilled right through the bases--on more than one pair of expensive skiis BITD.:eek:

Some people should not be let near tools.

Agree with the 'brass fill, rethread option'.

I guess they tried to get the cups threaded, and they were loose so they were removed and epoxied? And why did that seem like a good idea???

[bikingshearer]

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/bottom-brackets/grand-cru-threadless-bottom-brackets-107.html

Requires a tapered crankarm, but you're good to go!

No, that only works on BSC shells, not Italian shells.

Christian is correct - it says right in the VO listing that it won't work on Italian BBs because they have a larger "ID" (inner diameter).

To be clear, though, the VO listing says it will work on Swiss BBs, which means it will also work on French BBs (same diameter, different direction of threading on the fixed cup side) which means it should also work on BSA/BSC BBs (very close to the same diameter French/Swiss ones).

[bikingshearer]

So how hard would it be to undo the epoxy and get those cups out of there?

[Dead Man]

This reminds me of the guy that our shop hired who took it upon himself to mount some ski bindings and drilled right through the bases--on more than one pair of expensive skiis BITD.:eek:

Some people should not be let near tools.

Agree with the 'brass fill, rethread option'.

I guess they tried to get the cups threaded, and they were loose so they were removed and epoxied? And why did that seem like a good idea???

Pretty common and not that big of a deal..

I'd say crossing the threads on a brand new peg is a WAY bigger ****up

[paredown]

So how hard would it be to undo the epoxy and get those cups out of there?

What do you want it to look like when you are done??

(kidding!)

It would be nice to know what they used--although heat tends to help with a lot of different chemistry epoxies that you can't get out with strict mechanical force..

This is a pretty good summary:
http://www.permabond.com/blog/2014/09/11/adhesive-debonding-stronger-adhesives/

If you were to braze repair on the BB, the area will need paint anyways, so a little heat would be OK.

[bikingshearer]

What do you want it to look like when you are done??

(kidding!)

Preferably not more that seven or eight pieces . . . . :p

More seriously, thanks for the reply and the link. My question was purely out of morbid curiosity. I am not in the market for the frame (or any other frame), and it is a tad small, although I could have it fit me pretty well with that head tube.

[adub]

Totally fixable.

Although getting the epoxied cups out will now be a bit of a PITA.

[ColonelJLloyd]

70 vs 68

That is the width of the shell, not the diameter.

I wouldn't buy this at any price.

Really? At worst this requires replacing the BB shell, no? Not insignificant, but not the end of the world either.

[christian]

Replacing the bb shell is the same as building a new frame.

[cachagua]

Both are correct. Using BSA is just giving credit where it's due. The British Small Arms company developed the standard that was later accepted as BSC.

Maybe you're thinking about Birmingham Small Arms? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Small_Arms_Company#Bicycles_2) The "Standardization" and "History of Standardization" sections of the Wikipedia article on "Thread Pitch" are also informative.

BSA is much, much more widely used.

Yes. As was the geocentric solar system, for a long time... and during all that time, the sun was at the center. I mean -- why be wrong on purpose?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Yes. As was the geocentric solar system, for a long time... and during all that time, the sun was at the center. I mean -- why be wrong on purpose?

Yes, Birmingham. BSA is 1.37" x 24tpi. Tell me again why we shouldn't be using the acronym "BSA".

[ColonelJLloyd]

Replacing the bb shell is the same as building a new frame.

I'm under the impression this is a $250-300 job most any frame builder can do. Care to share the nuts and bolts?

[oldpotatoe]

The shells aren't the same diameter??

1.37=34.8mm..Far superior Italian BB is 36mm...

[oldpotatoe]

70 vs 68

That's width not inside diameter..

[cadence90]

1.37=34.8mm..Far superior Italian BB is 36mm...

I can't remember: what is the factor that we need to multiply the 1.2mm difference by in order to arrive at the correct "Far superior" total?

Is it y (current year) - f (Campa founding year) x d (difference) = 2016 - 1933 x 1.2 = 99.6?

99.6 just seems way, way too low....:D

[ultraman6970]

Yes it can be rethreaded. But there is a catch:

1 - if the BB is english you can re tap it to italian, it will work just fine, just add a 1 mm BB cup washer at each side and good to go, if you run squared tapper just us it at it it, the chain line will be off a fraction of a milimiter, no that matters, it will work just fine.

2 - if the BB is italian, well there you have a problem but seen this before, just fill up the threads with bronze and retap that, bike might need a new paint job because BB paint will be burned. Second option, just put a new BB shell... there's maybe other options too.

If that pegoretti is english threading the best plan is to re thread that to italian BB using a flexible diameter tap thing and bring that up to italian specs.

omg...

Can a bb be re-threaded (I know the answer is no but the frame is my size)?

[ColonelJLloyd]

As I understand it, all Pegs have Italian threaded bottom bracket shells.

[ultraman6970]

Well congrats to the mechanic then :) Now the frame worth nothing, put a new shell in there how much can be? 200 bucks?

[macaroon]

I think you'd find plenty of places would be able to put some sort of threaded sleeve, or maybe a helicoil in there. No damage to the paint work either.

[Neil]

Swapping the BB shell is equivalent to rebuilding the frame as has been said- these are TIG welded I believe?

If it was brazed or lugged then you have more leeway, but given that all that is needed is to add some brass and re-tap it'd be sub-logical to replace it.

Bit of heat from the torch to break down the epoxy, pull out the Campag cups, clean it up, flood the threads with brass, re-cut, paint, wallop.

[choke]

I wonder if an old Mavic threadless BB would work?

http://www.bikepro.com/products/bottom_brackets/mavic.shtml

[ultraman6970]

Remember seen some theaded sleeves to go from italian to english in ceeway's catalogs time ago. but never seen somebody actually using them nor reviewing them ever.

[oldpotatoe]

I can't remember: what is the factor that we need to multiply the 1.2mm difference by in order to arrive at the correct "Far superior" total?

Is it y (current year) - f (Campa founding year) x d (difference) = 2016 - 1933 x 1.2 = 99.6?

99.6 just seems way, way too low....:D

secret..sorry.

[cadence90]

secret..sorry.

Aw, man, you insiders and your secrets....:)

[bikingshearer]

secret..sorry.

Is it the formula that's secret, or is it the reason why Italian threading (and it's trap-for-the-unwary right hand fixed cup threading) is superior that's secret? :rolleyes:

[mistermo]

The biggest detriment to this frame's ultimate selling price is the ugly Conn Rust color, rather than the wonky BB. Blech.

[oldpotatoe]

Is it the formula that's secret, or is it the reason why Italian threading (and it's trap-for-the-unwary right hand fixed cup threading) is superior that's secret? :rolleyes:

yes

[geordanh]

The biggest detriment to this frame's ultimate selling price is the ugly Conn Rust color, rather than the wonky BB. Blech.

Exactly. I don't know what the eff Dario was thinking with that one. It's truly awful and the only scheme I'd ever say that about.

[pbarry]

I wonder if an old Mavic threadless BB would work?

http://www.bikepro.com/products/bottom_brackets/mavic.shtml

Yep. :beer:

That's by far the easiest solution if you can find a Mavic chamfering tool..

[cnighbor1]

per seller
Pegoretti Marchello 60cm frame and fork New bottom bracket issue



A rare masterwork of a frame. No scratches. It is in new condition. The bottom bracket was cross threaded during frame prep. We have been able to install Campy bottom bracket cups, but we are afraid that these may be the ONLY cups to ever be installed. The cups are epoxied into the frame. A press fit square taper bb can be used. Our mistake can be your gain. We will auction this off at a loss, but just understand that you may not be able to replace the bottom bracket cups. The matching Falz carbon fork is still in the bubble wrap and un cut. We included a picture of a complete bike to show how the frame and fork match.




top tube 58.5cm

[rw229]

If you run Campy and the cups are square, proper width, why is this a big deal?

[oddsaabs]

The ad was pulled early from eBay, so may never know how much a Pegoretti with a stripped BB is worth.

[gone]

If you run Campy and the cups are square, proper width, why is this a big deal?
They wear out.

[katematt]

I have one of those in a bike and was told I would never have to deal with it. 26 years later she and the cooks attached are still going strong. Granted don't see too much action anymore, but its not cause of the BB.

Yep. :beer:

That's by far the easiest solution if you can find a Mavic chamfering tool..

[GT2R]

It is a secret no longer, the bidding was ended early when I purchased the Peg locally. Price was substantially under a grand.

It was a bad day for shop and mechanic when it happened but stuff happens. Apparently the grit from the universally lamented paint scheme was the reason for the cross threading. As a result, it's my fav Peg color!

The cups in it seem seated well. I tested a UT crank and it spins fine but UT cups don't last that long and a square taper BB looks like an easier/longer lasting solution. Locktite or the same epoxy used to seat the UT cups should give me a secure fit. As a result, I guess a retro look with be the scheme for the bike. If it doesn't work, then a proper repair to fill and rethread the BB will be in order.

The best part is I don't have to worry about the first paint chip or damage, it's already done. Just ride and enjoy!

[oddsaabs]

Well done. Enjoy your new ride!