Buying through LBS and installation

[icepick_trotsky]

I recently ordered a Praxis bottom bracket. My LBS of choice wasn't a dealer, so I went to another one, the largest one in town, to buy it.

They quoted me a price, slightly higher than on Praxis' website, but that's ok. Then they quoted me another $30 for the installation. Really? I normally do all my own work, but I'm not set up for the press fit BB thing.

Why buy stuff through the LBS if they're not going to give you a break on the installation cost? Am I crazy?

[sandyrs]

If they're charging $30 for installation they should sell it to you at the price readily available on the Praxis site IMO.

[rodcad]

$30 to install sounds fair to me.

[MattTuck]

I was in a pinch once, and needed new tires on my bike, and didn't have enough time to order them. I bought them at my LBS, and they asked if I wanted to have them installed, and I said yes, just to save me some time. They charged $10 for the installation, on top of the full retail tire price.

Needless to say, I haven't bought tires or any small accessories from them since.

If you don't think something is a good value, vote with your feet.

[christian]

I normally do all my own work, but I'm not set up for the press fit BB thing.It appears you have answered your own question here.

[chiasticon]

I would expect to pay more than a direct purchase AND the $30 installation charge if I were going this route. I mean, the shop has to make $ too and these aren't a super widely-distributed and common item like a trekalizediantdale that they get massive deals on, are told to push, and are sitting on stock of. you requested the special order.

but yeah, buying the tools and learning how to do it yourself is the best approach in the long run. then order direct and only take it to the shop if you mess it up.

[54ny77]

the continual demise of the lbs is death by a thousand cuts for many reasons, and this is one of those reasons.

[pinkshogun]

i only work free for family and close friends

[Cicli]

How much is the tool?
Less than 30.00 bucks?

Do it yourself.

[eippo1]

I was in a pinch once, and needed new tires on my bike, and didn't have enough time to order them. I bought them at my LBS, and they asked if I wanted to have them installed, and I said yes, just to save me some time. They charged $10 for the installation, on top of the full retail tire price.

Needless to say, I haven't bought tires or any small accessories from them since.

If you don't think something is a good value, vote with your feet.

So a mechanic's time isn't worth anything? Well I guess they do make diddly compared to any other trade. :rolleyes: This whole getting mechanics to do stuff for free doesn't make sense. How is the LBS supposed to pay them if they don't charge for what they do?

I work as a project manager and you bet that every minute is accounted for on each project or else you can't pay the bills to keep the lights on.

[Gummee]

$30 to install sounds fair to me.

That's usually what I charge

I may do the occasional freebie for regular customers, (yesterday's der. hanger tweak being one), but if you wander in off the street on the rare occasion you need something? Nope. I gotta pay the bills too. Don't pay the bills = no LBS in times of need.

M

[R3awak3n]

How much is the tool?
Less than 30.00 bucks?

Do it yourself.

no way, a press tool is way more than $30. Its at least $100 for the cheapest one but I guess you could make one at home


That said, its a super easy install but you know how it is, $30 does not sound unreasonable to me

[CampyorBust]

I was once charged $40 WITHOUT prior notification that I would be charged for the service to install a WARRANTIED free hub. I decided to be a good silent weener and balked not at the severe wanking. Got home went to put the wheel into the the bike, the ****ing wanker put the wrong sized axel in the wheel, drove back 40 minutes to the shop. Asked the owner of the shop for a refund, no way jose, got a very kurt and rude response which amounted to "did you buy the bike from us? No well then pay up sucker!" one of the biggest shops in my area a place I liked to frequent from time to time, I wont set foot in there ever again, breaks my heart really. :(

As I learned a long long time ago, do all of your work yourself, its cheaper and you will know you did it right or wrong.

[Tandem Rider]

This isn't meant as a personal attack, but when does your boss not charge a customer for goods and services that there is a fixed cost associated with?

Yeah, mine always charges too. :eek:

Special ordering, installing, and warrantying a part in a brick and mortar store with all of it's associated costs. Looks to me like you got a fair price. :)

[MattTuck]

So a mechanic's time isn't worth anything? Well I guess they do make diddly compared to any other trade. :rolleyes: This whole getting mechanics to do stuff for free doesn't make sense. How is the LBS supposed to pay them if they don't charge for what they do?

I work as a project manager and you bet that every minute is accounted for on each project or else you can't pay the bills to keep the lights on.


My point wasn't that the mechanic should do it for free. It is that it is sometimes penny wise and pound foolish to charge for service on an item that has a pretty high gross margin.

Take my example. I paid $72 for the tire. Plus $10 install. Total $82.

Compared to if I bought the tire online, call it $40 - $50, depending on the site, and zero to install.

Not sure what the margin was on the tire at the LBS, my guess is between $15 and $20, possibly more.

I'd probably be in the same pickle again at some point, and they'd make $20 every time. If you're making that much margin, what is the cost for a 5 minute tire install? (We're talking a clincher here, if that wasn't clear.) does the guy bill out at $120/hr? Even at $60/hr, we're talking $5 in labor.

I don't mind paying for the convenience and expertise, but they have to keep it reasonable. I ordered some tires online and now I keep several tires at home, just in case.

Every time I go through a tire now, that is gross margin that they don't see.

PS. Do you have a special line item in your budgets for "Paceline Time"? :)

[ColonelJLloyd]

no way, a press tool is way more than $30. Its at least $100 for the cheapest one but I guess you could make one at home


That said, its a super easy install but you know how it is, $30 does not sound unreasonable to me

+1 on both counts.

[eippo1]

PS. Do you have a special line item in your budgets for "Paceline Time"? :)

No, but I totally should. :p

[malcolm]

I was once charged $40 WITHOUT prior notification that I would be charged for the service to install a WARRANTIED free hub. I decided to be a good silent weener and balked not at the severe wanking. Got home went to put the wheel into the the bike, the ****ing wanker put the wrong sized axel in the wheel, drove back 40 minutes to the shop. Asked the owner of the shop for a refund, no way jose, got a very kurt and rude response which amounted to "did you buy the bike from us? No well then pay up sucker!" one of the biggest shops in my area a place I liked to frequent from time to time, I wont set foot in there ever again, breaks my heart really. :(

As I learned a long long time ago, do all of your work yourself, its cheaper and you will know you did it right or wrong.

As stated above do it yourself. If you can't or don't want to then find out the costs up front and either learn or pay up.

The shop has salaries to pay, utilities, rent, tools including the press to pay for. I think $30 sounds reasonable. You're playing for the knowledge to perform a service, a person to carry out the act and a place in which it can be done. Doesn't sound so bad when you think of it like that.

I seldom use a local bike shop because most of the time I don't need them. When and if I do I'm usually fine with labor/service. What gets me is the prices I'm charged for parts that I can usually get faster than they can.

[CampyorBust]

As stated above do it yourself. If you can't or don't want to then find out the costs up front and either learn or pay up.

The shop has salaries to pay, utilities, rent, tools including the press to pay for. I think $30 sounds reasonable. You're playing for the knowledge to perform a service, a person to carry out the act and a place in which it can be done. Doesn't sound so bad when you think of it like that.

I seldom use a local bike shop because most of the time I don't need them. When and if I do I'm usually fine with labor/service. What gets me is the prices I'm charged for parts that I can usually get faster than they can.

I am fine with paying for service too. However I think we all can agree that you tell the customer they will be charged for said service prior to dispensing it. Not act like a filthy rat weasel nickel and dime-ing every customer you have, way too many bike shops do this. This should be a no brainer, and when a moronic low rung bike shop wanker ****s up, it is up to the cool headed, wise and experienced shop owner/manager to do the right thing. Unfortunalty in my neck of the woods shop owners are often millitant good old boy club grade A assholes.

[malcolm]

I am fine with paying for service too. However I think we all can agree that you tell the customer they will be charged for said service prior to dispensing it. Not act like a filthy rat weasel nickel and dime-ing every customer you have, way too many bike shops do this. This should be a no brainer, and when a moronic low rung bike shop wanker ****s up, it is up to the cool headed, wise and experienced shop owner/manager to do the right thing. Unfortunalty in my neck of the woods shop owners are often millitant good old boy club grade A assholes.

sorry dude I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you. I reread and see that it doesn't come off that way. Do it your self, learn to do it yourself or pay the price.

A customer should never be treated poorly, if for no other reason than it's a bad business model. It's all too frequent in my neck of the woods as well. Youngster that couldn't find his backside with both hands with the arrogant know it all attitude.

[Dave B]

I use the rule that if it is a job that I will need done often enough to buy the tool(s) then I get them or make them and do it myself. If it is a rarity then a "Professional" mechanic can do it.

I know enough guys in the shops around that I tend to get discounts, but I do not ask for them. I get people want a break on costs, I do. I get that shops good or bad are a business that need to make money.

Often times if you spend enough...time or money...then you become a regular at the shop and they are happy to do things for free or discounted.

Good luck

[CampyorBust]

sorry dude I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you. I reread and see that it doesn't come off that way. Do it your self, learn to do it yourself or pay the price.

A customer should never be treated poorly, if for no other reason than it's a bad business model. It's all too frequent in my neck of the woods as well. Youngster that couldn't find his backside with both hands with the arrogant know it all attitude.

It aint no thang :beer: Plus I think I misread your post and went off on my own tangent.

I want bike shops to have great customer service and love giving them business when they do and I can. I never worked in a shop but flipped my fair amount of bikes like two times my customers were not happy, I felt horrible and went out of my way to please them.

One guy rode home on his "new" bike, and called me up said the bike was not shifting at all. He was new to riding and eventually wanted a nice bike. So I drove out to his house with two bikes from my personal collection, and we went for a ride on them. We rode Bianchis of course:). I spent half an hour uploading all that I could into his head and telling him exactly what kind of nicer bike he should buy, and what not to buy. I returned his money and took back the bike with profuse apologies, ultimately it was not right for him it was more important for me to see him happy than make a quick $150, plus like a dooface I forgot to tighten the RD cable, the bike later sold as a single speed.

[milkbaby]

I was once charged $40 WITHOUT prior notification that I would be charged for the service to install a WARRANTIED free hub.

As I learned a long long time ago, do all of your work yourself, its cheaper and you will know you did it right or wrong.

I wouldn't mind being charged for installation as long as they are up front about any fee. Wouldn't be happy if I bought something, LBS offers to install without mention of any fee, and then charges me after the fact.

Count me in with preferring to fix things myself. At least then I know it's being done correctly, and if not, then at least I learned what not to do next time!

[Red Tornado]

I may do the occasional freebie for regular customers, (yesterday's der. hanger tweak being one), but if you wander in off the street on the rare occasion you need something? Nope. I gotta pay the bills too. Don't pay the bills = no LBS in times of need.

M

The above seems very reasonable to me, providing....
1) Labor/install charge must be mentioned at the beginning of the transaction.
2) Labor/install charge must be reasonable (yes, I realize that could be a moving target at times).
If the above conditions are met neither party has grounds to whine about the deal when it's all said and done.

[bpm]

I think the labor charge should be discussed up-front, but this is a two way street. The shop should indicate what the charge is going to be, but the consumer should also ask what the charge is going to be.

Let's say I need a new alternator in my car and I take it to a shop. They're selling me the alternator but do I honestly expect they're going to install it for free because I bought it from them? Of course not. They quote me a price, typically broken down into the cost of the part and the cost of the labor.

Going into a bike shop and expecting they're going to install the part free of charge just because it was purchased there is unreasonable and I put the failure to communicate the charges on both parties in such a case.

[Avincent52]

If your dishwasher breaks, the guy makes you wait, charges you for the part, and then another $100 (or more) to install it.
If your car's water pump breaks, the dealer will charge you a full retail for the part (or more) plus around $100/hr to put it in. (An indy shop will be cheaper, but it'll still be $70/hr)

By those standards I don't think $30 is an unreasonable amount to pay, given that this kind of BB installation takes some skill--can't be given to a 16-year-old making minimum wage like a tire install--it requires specialized tools and there's a small but real risk of damaging the frame or the BB.

How much do you think a shop charges to tape handlebars?

[oldpotatoe]

the continual demise of the lbs is death by a thousand cuts for many reasons, and this is one of those reasons.

Really? I agree they should charge suggested retail, get that minimal margin(probably about 35-38 points, enough to break even), and then give you free service? Ya know, that service that costs the LBS for salary, insurance, utilities, etc, etc??? If they did that they are losing $ and will eventually, go outta biz.

[John H.]

You should be willing to pay the going rate for service if you want to have that service done.
In exchange the service should be properly done by someone with the proper training and tools.
$10 for a tire change? May seem like robbery, but many cannot change their own tires- especially if they have a tight rim/tire combo.
Same for $30 for the bb- you need the right tools and knowledge for both removal and installation. A hammer and screwdriver is probably not the proper tool to knock out the old bb- same for installation.
Probably some home mechanics out there who have ruined their own PF30 frame by trying to do the install at home.

[54ny77]

you misread my post, pardon if i wasn't more clear.

i was opining on the lunacy of asking for a labor discount on a dinky $30 part. a part that, if one were to hamfist it without fully knowing the nuances of install (let alone having the proper tools) could end up being a hundreds if not thousands of $ mistake. all for attempting to save tens of dollars.

Really? I agree they should charge suggested retail, get that minimal margin(probably about 35-38 points, enough to break even), and then give you free service? Ya know, that service that costs the LBS for salary, insurance, utilities, etc, etc??? If they did that they are losing $ and will eventually, go outta biz.

[bfd]

I just ordered a new frameset from my LBS. I am paying whatever the price is for the frameset. The fitting is included in the price.

I plan to have the frameset built up by my LBS. I expect to pay the labor to build it up.

They are allowing me to bring in my own parts since I already have some parts (crank, wheels) or are rare (c-record seatpost).

For other parts, I plan to talk to them ahead of time to get their price. If it is reasonable, I will buy it there. If not, they will allow me to purchase elsewhere and bring it in.

Now, if I bring in my own part and its the wrong size or something, then I'm responsible and I expect to pay their price for any substitution, i.e., if the frame requires an Italian threaded bb and I have an English threaded one, I pay their price.

My LBS is making money on the labor and is willing to let me bring in my own parts. It's a win-win as they're still making money and I can save where possible.

Of course, YMMV! Good Luck!

[oldpotatoe]

You should be willing to pay the going rate for service if you want to have that service done.
In exchange the service should be properly done by someone with the proper training and tools.
$10 for a tire change? May seem like robbery, but many cannot change their own tires- especially if they have a tight rim/tire combo.
Same for $30 for the bb- you need the right tools and knowledge for both removal and installation. A hammer and screwdriver is probably not the proper tool to knock out the old bb- same for installation.
Probably some home mechanics out there who have ruined their own PF30 frame by trying to do the install at home.

$10 for 2 tires and considering $ per hour, very reasonable. I charged $60 per hour for labor..it takes what to change a tire-10 minutes?..along with brake check and der check? Often a HS adjust also..no charge.

So what above said..this idea that paying retail for something(again, that 35-38 point margin) and then shop service..not outrageous at all. IMHO.

[oldpotatoe]

you misread my post, pardon if i wasn't more clear.

i was opining on the lunacy of asking for a labor discount on a dinky $30 part. a part that, if one were to hamfist it without fully knowing the nuances of install (let alone having the proper tools) could end up being a hundreds if not thousands of $ mistake. all for attempting to save tens of dollars.

10-4..the whole thread and your quotes..I apologize. We agree...

[54ny77]

i went exactly thru this calculus several months ago with a bike that has bb30 bottom bracket. i enjoy working on my own stuff, but know nothing about bb30 nor have the tools. reading horror stories of install and subsequent creaking and 10,000 different ways to do things, plus no interest in spending $100+ for tools to deal with only 1 bb30 frame (of several, the rest of which are bsa threaded), i took to the lbs which is top notch. didn't even ask what the labor charge was going to be to install the bb that i bought from them, which was a simple affair (about $30 or so, an adapter thingie to accommodate bsa external bb's) because they'll do (and did) it right. for me to do anything other than that would have been a waste of time, money and needless headache.

now, if the lbs sucked, i'd have figured it out on my own and bought the tools. fortunately for me, that is not the case. they are top notch, among the best of the best, and very fair on labor by the way. do it once, do it right.

10-4..the whole thread and your quotes..I apologize. We agree...

[Gummee]

i went exactly thru this calculus several months ago with a bike that has bb30 bottom bracket. i enjoy working on my own stuff, but know nothing about bb30 nor have the tools. reading horror stories of install and subsequent creaking and 10,000 different ways to do things, plus no interest in spending $100+ for tools to deal with only 1 bb30 frame (of several, the rest of which are bsa threaded), i took to the lbs which is top notch. didn't even ask what the labor charge was going to be to install the bb that i bought from them, which was a simple affair (about $30 or so, an adapter thingie to accommodate bsa external bb's) because they'll do (and did) it right. for me to do anything other than that would have been a waste of time, money and needless headache.

now, if the lbs sucked, i'd have figured it out on my own and bought the tools. fortunately for me, that is not the case. they are top notch, among the best of the best, and very fair on labor by the way. do it once, do it right.

Wheels Manufacturing and Enduro both make great thread-together BBs to take your BB30 to either Shimano std or SRAM GXP BBs. Better bearings. Less chance of creaking. Mo bettah than the delrin adapters.

M

[Mikej]

Lesson learned.

[54ny77]

If I recall they installed an FSA threaded adaptor, a full can-shaped alu. thing that was pressed in along with loctite, and it works just dandy. No muss, no fuss. And allows me to tap into my stash of Shimano BSA bb's.

Wheels Manufacturing and Enduro both make great thread-together BBs to take your BB30 to either Shimano std or SRAM GXP BBs. Better bearings. Less chance of creaking. Mo bettah than the delrin adapters.

M

[peanutgallery]

Paceline fantasy land when it comes to the LBS

1. Odd parts that rarely sell, in stock at the LBS. Its like they read your future mind in the past and they knew that one day you'd darken their door

2. England internet pricing and free shipping

3. Free labor, because the LBS is there for you...and only for you. No wait time for the free service and we'll ignore the fact that you're strutting around the showroom in a pair of performance bibs that are so old and worn that its like you have nothing on at all

[charliedid]

I recently ordered a Praxis bottom bracket. My LBS of choice wasn't a dealer, so I went to another one, the largest one in town, to buy it.

They quoted me a price, slightly higher than on Praxis' website, but that's ok. Then they quoted me another $30 for the installation. Really? I normally do all my own work, but I'm not set up for the press fit BB thing.

Why buy stuff through the LBS if they're not going to give you a break on the installation cost? Am I crazy?

1) Go to the grocery store and buy a steak.

2) Take steak to favorite local steak house.

3) Inform server that you brought your own steak - because you know...it's cheaper at the grocery store. Ask them to cook it to your liking. Maybe explain that they should season it and to not over cook it. This is a really good steak after all. Request they use tongs made from stainless steel because the regular plated metal ones ruin the flavor.

4) Inform server that you are an expert steak cooker and you would normally do this yourself at home, but you and the Mrs. just moved and you have not had time to set-up your fully stocked kitchen.

5) When steak comes (it won't, but if it did) eye it for correct doneness, poke at it, lift it up and look at the bottom. Exclaim that it looks pretty good but you will report back after the first bite.

6) When you find that it's done perfectly with no discernible issues, still ask to see the owner/chef so you can explain how you would have normally done this but are happy to have him/them do this for you occasionally because you know, the owner/chef has a tattoo of your favorite knife on his/her forearm and you want them to know you know what that is. You know.

7) Go home completely happy with your steak but still steaming about the $28.99 for the steak and the free wine (because it's wednesday night and wine is free) knowing you only paid $8.00 for the steak at the grocery. You sir are a savvy consumer!

8) Go online to steakjuiceforum.com and try to garner support from other steak enthusients about the demise of the once heralded steak house and the outrageous prices for cooking steak. Expect mixed results.

9) Report your experience back here when finished.

10) Expect mixed results.

[Blown Reek]

You know, that HHP-2 Bearing Cup Press that I bought about 10 years ago sure paid for itself in headset installations. And then BB30 came around! And the PF30!

When I bought it, I wondered if the $150 was worth it. Now, countless headset and bottom bracket installations later, I know that it was- even though press fit bottom brackets weren't even around when I bought it.

Having to be reliant on an LBS is a tough situation. But, buy the correct tools, and you won't be at anyones mercy for repair/installation costs. $30 for a bottom bracket installation? Jeez. I know that's the going rate, but that's a scam, but that's how it is! Four more, and your break even for the proper shop tool is met! (not to mention the lesser expensive consumer presses, which would take less visits for a break-even.)

Learn to do all your own work, and you won't complain about local bike shops' costs. After all, there is no way that I believe that any of the local mechanics can repair a bike as well I can... but then again, I spent many formative years as a bike shop mechanic. Working on bikes ain't hard. It's thinking that it is that stresses people out.

[FlashUNC]

I hope the OP realizes whatever profit is in a shop is in the labor, not the parts.

I never haggle on labor. That keeps the lights on and the wrench in beer money. Besides, $30 for a BB30 install? Sounds like a good deal to me.

[charliedid]

You know, that HHP-2 Bearing Cup Press that I bought about 10 years ago sure paid for itself in headset installations. And then BB30 came around! And the PF30!

When I bought it, I wondered if the $150 was worth it. Now, countless headset and bottom bracket installations later, I know that it was- even though press fit bottom brackets weren't even around when I bought it.

Having to be reliant on an LBS is a tough situation. But, buy the correct tools, and you won't be at anyones mercy for repair/installation costs. $30 for a bottom bracket installation? Jeez. I know that's the going rate, but that's a scam, but that's how it is! Four more, and your break even for the proper shop tool is met! (not to mention the lesser expensive consumer presses, which would take less visits for a break-even.)

Learn to do all your own work, and you won't complain about local bike shops' costs. After all, there is no way that I believe that any of the local mechanics can repair a bike as well I can... but then again, I spent many formative years as a bike shop mechanic. Working on bikes ain't hard. It's thinking that it is that stresses people out.

Racing bikes isn't hard either. I raced my mountain bike once, at a local charity event at the park. I totally smoked those kids...

[CampyorBust]

1) Go to the grocery store and buy a steak.

2) Take steak to favorite local steak house.

3) Inform server that you brought your own steak - because you know...it's cheaper at the grocery store. Ask them to cook it to your liking. Maybe explain that they should season it and to not over cook it. This is a really good steak after all. Request they use tongs made from stainless steel because the regular plated metal ones ruin the flavor.

4) Inform server that you are an expert steak cooker and you would normally do this yourself at home, but you and the Mrs. just moved and you have not had time to set-up your fully stocked kitchen.

5) When steak comes (it won't, but if it did) eye it for correct doneness, poke at it, lift it up and look at the bottom. Exclaim that it looks pretty good but you will report back after the first bite.

6) When you find that it's done perfectly with no discernible issues, still ask to see the owner/chef so you can explain how you would have normally done this but are happy to have him/them do this for you occasionally because you know, the owner/chef has a tattoo of your favorite knife on his/her forearm and you want them to know you know what that is. You know.

7) Go home completely happy with your steak but still steaming about the $28.99 for the steak and the free wine (because it's wednesday night and wine is free) knowing you only paid $8.00 for the steak at the grocery. You sir are a savvy consumer!

8) Go online to steakjuiceforum.com and try to garner support from other steak enthusients about the demise of the once heralded steak house and the outrageous prices for cooking steak. Expect mixed results.

9) Report your experience back here when finished.

10) Expect mixed results.

"mixed results" = steak knife in the back:p

[jtbadge]

$30 for the BB install seems reasonable enough, but the upcharge for parts on top of that does not.

Especially since I recently bought a headset at the aforementioned non-Praxis dealer LBS - at list price and with no installation charges.

[csm]

Ok.... The steak analogy was near spot-on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[biker72]

Ok.... The steak analogy was near spot-on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

+1
I think some certain forum members should become bike shop employees or better yet own a shop. It's been quite an eye opener for me.

[unterhausen]

I work as a project manager and you bet that every minute is accounted for on each project or else you can't pay the bills to keep the lights on.I have a folder in my email entitled, "NPNW" -- no pay no work. Some people's emails get filtered right in there. My LBS has done some work for me for free, but then again, I do work for them for free too.

+1
I think some certain forum members should become bike shop employees or better yet own a shop. It's been quite an eye opener for me.I started working in a bike shop when I was 15 and quit when I was 25. Every time I think about opening a bike shop or even working in one, I remember how bad the money was and how bad the customers could make things

[93legendti]

ok.... The steak analogy was near spot-on.


Sent from my ipad using tapatalk hd


+2

[93legendti]

Paceline fantasy land when it comes to the LBS

1. Odd parts that rarely sell, in stock at the LBS. Its like they read your future mind in the past and they knew that one day you'd darken their door

2. England internet pricing and free shipping

3. Free labor, because the LBS is there for you...and only for you. No wait time for the free service and we'll ignore the fact that you're strutting around the showroom in a pair of performance bibs that are so old and worn that its like you have nothing on at all

And

4. If the LBS doesn't provide free labor, it will go out of business because it treats its fair weather customers "poorly".

[Gummee]

I started working in a bike shop when I was 15 and quit when I was 25. Every time I think about opening a bike shop or even working in one, I remember how bad the money was and how bad the customers could make things

The customers are what make the bike shop too. Most of em are positive, healthy people doing something they love to do. The enthusiasm can be infectious.

Then there's the 1-2% that make life in the bike shop a total living hades.

THOSE last few % I can do without

M

[oldpotatoe]

The customers are what make the bike shop too. Most of em are positive, healthy people doing something they love to do. The enthusiasm can be infectious.

Then there's the 1-2% that make life in the bike shop a total living hades.

THOSE last few % I can do without

M

We had a list of about 10 customers who we 'didn't look forward to seeing'.
We always said we should have a party, invite only them, and they could think to themselves, "why did they invite me, these people are such ar$eholes"...

Retail, labor of 'like', best and worse job there is.

[unterhausen]

The customers are what make the bike shop too. Most of em are positive, healthy people doing something they love to do. The enthusiasm can be infectious.
no doubt, and the enthusiasts are rarely the ones that make you feel really bad about working on bikes. Nowadays, I'm just glad there are people that will put up with the nonsense and are there for me. It's not a given, there are plenty of locations with only crappy bike shops.