On being "wrong"...

[Ti Designs]

People take offense at being told they're doing something wrong - this sums up much of my interaction with this forum. It's been suggested that I state things in degrees of right, 'cause nobody takes offense at being called right... The way I see it, everything we do is to some degree wrong, improvement on whatever that is depends on identifying what it is we're doing wrong and changing it. That's what I do.

A few years I started a thread about a piano project I was working on. There are lots of electronic pianos out there, they all try to reproduce the sound a piano makes in various degrees of wrong. I set out to improve on that, and what I wound up with was an appreciation of just how incredibly complex a piano is. Just as an example, one of the things I corrected was the sound of the damper pedal. The pedal lifts the felt dampers off the strings, so the notes sustain. The friction of the felt being lifted makes a sound, the best digital pianos have that sound sampled, so you push the pedal and you hear it. They forgot something, with the dampers lifted, the soundboard reacts to any sound in the room - you can actually sense that there's a piano in the room. I added mics to listen to the room and added reverb (Lexicon had already done this, but I didn't know that at the time).

My point is that everything is way more complicated than you think, we all make simple models of how we think it works to limit the complexity of the world around us.

My latest project has been a photography project. It started out as my wanting to show people what you see when you ride a bike at 5:00am. The image I've always wanted to capture was a deer that crossed the road in front of me, then ran into a field with a dense layer of fog. It left a deer shaped trail in the fog, then it stopped and looked back at me. I'll never be able to capture that image, just as I'll never be able to guess what the next image will be. My conclusion was that I need a camera on the bike. I bought a Contour camera and built a mount that replaces the duty on the quick release, so I could mount it on the front or back. What I quickly learned was that's how I see things. Most pictures aren't how you see - dare I call them wrong? The pictures you take with a camera light gathered from a lens, focused on a film plane - er, I mean sensor. Lenses are multi element, aspherical designed wonders that give edge to edge sharpness. That's wonderful, but it's not really how you see.

I started playing with stereo images using .MPO format, which allows the use of a 3D monitor to feed each eye a different image (wearing silly looking glasses). There are a number of cameras which shoot in that format, you would think it's simple, you take two images and create the file - but it's not. First, your eye doesn't have edge to edge sharpness. 15 degrees off center you're legally blind. I was shocked by how little detail I could resolve off axis, I could tell colors and movement... And then there's how your eyes move. My first attempt at creating my own 3D image was using a macro focusing rail, I took one picture, moved the camera 2-1/4" and took a second image. Looking at a picture of something close on the 3D monitor hurt, if felt like my head wanted to split apart. I realized that while the perspective changes from right eye to left eye, the point of focus does not.

There are cameras which have two sensors, track focus and alter the direction of the lenses. They cost almost as much as my house, and I'm not about to bolt one onto my cross bike. My next attempt is going to be somewhat more humble. Two digital camera bodies, converted C-mount lenses (sharp on center, soft on the corners) and a shutter release with a splitter (that was way harder to build than it sounds). It's going to be fixed distance focus, I'll have both cameras focused and converged on the same point.

In a few days I'll have photographic evidence that I'm wrong about all sorts of things - I'm OK with that.

[Cicli]

Actually I find your participation here to be "right". Part of what makes this place an island in the cesspool that is the internet.

[malcolm]

Ti you're just wrong, plain wrong.

You can't please everybody nor can you teach everybody. If you are interested you do the best you can with the ones you can.

I still remember first reading your posts years ago and honestly though you came off to some degree as smug and a dick, but it didn't take long to realize that you were passionate about these things and were presenting information that was likely helpful and honestly if I were closer would have likely spent some money to get a lesson or two.
I've grown to appreciate your insights and no window dressing style. I'll be looking forward to see this obsessive nature applied to photography

[rePhil]

"I thought I was wrong once....but I was wrong"

It's cool that you are so detailed oriented. Not all of us are. Maybe we were at one time or currently striving to be an expert in a particular field. or maybe some are like me and just don't care.

I made my living as a photographer for many years. Put food on the table, kids through school etc. I did not have a degree or any specific schooling. Other photographers wanted to talk about technical aspects of equipment that I couldn't care less about. I just wanted to make cool photos. I was an early adopter of Fujichrome. There were times other photographers would want to argue the only true film was Kodachrome.I would tell them to do what they want and walk away.
I was fortunate to find a mentor. He made it uncomplicated. I wanted to feed my family, not build a better camera.
I gave up taking time consuming personal, personal, vacation photos. I carry a simple point & shoot. I prefer to enjoy the moment, not wait for light or pose people.

IMO, the same philosophy can apply to cycling. There are so many talented riders that just want to ride / race their bike, and don't care about the things others will spend days overthinking.

[weisan]

Don't worry Ti pal, the world is big enough to accommodate someone like you.

Did you find yourself having to make some kind of concessions or adjustments when you started the new relationship with your gf?

See, we all do, in any relationships.... It's only human.

If you go only looking for Harry, then that's all you gonna find: Harry!

Your start out position or preconceived notion was: people don't like to be told wrong.

Because of that you are always only going to hear or notice folks who disagree or dare i say, even dislike you. But you have failed to notice the ones who actually listened and given some thought or even credit to what you said...like Malcolm pal

You set up your own paradigms in which you interpret the world that you live in. Nobody can change that for you.

[beeatnik]

You were wrong about the "doper" on the flat Florida ride. :cool:

[redir]

Where do you find the time to ride your bike? :D

[saf-t]

As an ex-commercial shooter, this project sounds pretty interesting. I have a head full of images that I wish I could duplicate for others to see.

The "what you see vs what the camera sees" thing is easily illustrated by looking at peoples' pix and seeing all kinds of things growing out of the subjects' heads ;-)

[Joxster]

I'm married, I'm used to being wrong ;) ;)

[Ti Designs]

IMO, the same philosophy can apply to cycling. There are so many talented riders that just want to ride / race their bike, and don't care about the things others will spend days overthinking.

I've always found there's a time for both. I work on the mechanics of pedaling a bike in the winter, I ride my bike in the summer. It makes the winter more interesting, it makes the summer more fun... Same can be said for building my piano project. I built 5 prototypes, got 2 patents, damaged 14 speakers and added a 30 amp outlet to make it all work, none of which I think about while I'm playing. It's good enough that I can close my eyes and forget that it's not a real piano.

[Tickdoc]

This post is so wrong it's right.

My best analogy is going to Alaska. I'd seen it in pictures and movies, heard many accounts of the land, but until mine own eyes saw it, I didn't get it. It can't be conveyed, but must be experienced.

Same thing with how a bike feels. When it is right, it is so good, but I can't really explain why, or show you a picture of it.

Sometimes Wrong is right.

[rePhil]

That's cool. My days of wanting to build stuff are currently in the past. I ride most everyday. I walk with my wife on my off days. Other than that we spend time with our adult kids and grand kids. At this point of my life time is the greatest gift.

So do you have any videos of your project?



I've always found there's a time for both. I work on the mechanics of pedaling a bike in the winter, I ride my bike in the summer. It makes the winter more interesting, it makes the summer more fun... Same can be said for building my piano project. I built 5 prototypes, got 2 patents, damaged 14 speakers and added a 30 amp outlet to make it all work, none of which I think about while I'm playing. It's good enough that I can close my eyes and forget that it's not a real piano.

[topflightpro]

I've read some of your posts. I think your issue is not so much that people are doing things to a degree of wrong so much as you tend to phrase things as "You are doing something wrong, and I am going to point it out."

[goonster]

I've read some of your posts. I think your issue is not so much that people are doing things to a degree of wrong so much as you tend to phrase things as "You are doing something wrong, and I am going to point it out."

A slightly different approach might work wonders. A bit of empathy and consideration for the other person's ego can go a long way.

A competent engineer is right most of the time. An effective engineer is able to sell the rest of the team on her rightness without ruffled feathers.

The poster child for this is Ignaz Semmelweis. Countless lives were lost due to the delayed adoption of his methods, which was at least partly due to his difficult personality.

[Fivethumbs]

I've read some of your posts. I think your issue is not so much that people are doing things to a degree of wrong so much as you tend to phrase things as "You are doing something wrong, and I am going to point it out."

This can be said for a number of people on this forum. A healthy discussion is often full of disagreements and differences of opinion. Often someone is factually wrong in an assertion they are making. Telling someone that you disagree with them is not an issue. It becomes an issue when someone appears to revel in pointing out that another person is wrong and does so in a manner that is disrespectful, insulting, and often results in the humiliation of the other person. That is not cool.

[dustyrider]

I always loved this line from Mr. Dylan:
...
Half of the people can be part right all of the time

Some of the people can be all right part of the time
But all of the people can’t be all right all of the time
I think Abraham Lincoln said that
"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours," I said that.

[Ti Designs]

I guess I'm odd in that I don't build this world of understanding around myself and assume it's all correct, so being told I'm wrong isn't an assault on my world, it's just something else to learn.

Yesterday I learned that how I look at the screen is wrong (or at least it's not the same as how you look at the world around you). It makes sense, the screen is a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional world, your eyes adjust both focus and convergence. The key thing here is that there are two things your eyes do. First, there's focus. If you're looking at a screen, that's what your focal distance needs to be - that part doesn't change. Where your eye is focused normally follows your focus. If you focus on the tip of your finger as you bring it to your nose, you'll notice both eyes track your finger. That's the difference in what your eyes do between looking at a screen and looking at things that are at different distances.

The camera takes pictures based on one point of convergence. While shooting I used a laser dot and focused the center point of both cameras on the dot. On a regular screen, an object would appear to be two objects unless it was at that distance. In other words, I had to adjust the angle of my eyes based on looking out into the distance while focusing on the screen. That turned out to be rather easy, sit back and stare into the distance, your eyes and brain do the rest.

The camera set-up has changed a bit. To match the dynamic range of the eye, I had to bracket photos and combine under and over exposed shots. Turns out the camera already does that, all I needed was a single trigger. I found wireless triggers work great for that. At first I tried cheap C-mount lenses to get the off axis soft focus, but their version of sharp at the center wasn't sharp enough. Knowing I was planning on putting this on a bike, which has already killed a few autofocus lenses, I wanted manual focus. Adapting old manual focus SLR lenses was easy, I used a matched pair of Minolta 50mm f1.7 lenses.

I wish there was a way of showing and image I get from this camera. I took a picture of some ducks on the pond near my house, I've probably wasted an hour looking at it.

[mg2ride]

...honestly though you came off to some degree as smug and a dick, but it didn't take long to realize that you were passionate about these things ...

FYI, these things aren't mutually exclusive. It is likely that both are true.

But then again, I might be wrong:hello:

[weisan]

I guess I'm odd ...

Ti pal, may I suggest sumthin'?

You don't always need to start a new post with some self-effacing comment or go through the trouble of stating the obvious...because we ALL KNOW!!! :D:beer:

https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/uploads/attachments/17/edward-final-blog-post.jpg?1337098664

[gemship]

There's a pond up the street from me that used to a be a whole lot smaller until some beaver made a home there and now it's ten times the size. So you know it attracts some birds and they are special birds I guess...The birds attract photographers. To me it's pretty but doesn't mean much. I couldn't stand there for more than a minute or two however...these people show up and are so still, quiet and focused whilst focusing these literal bazooka's for cameras. They spend hours trying to get the perfect shots. I bet they just might take National Geographic quality pics and thats cool but I am more fascinated by there passion. Determination to be there and waiting.

[Ti Designs]

There's a pond up the street from me that used to a be a whole lot smaller until some beaver made a home there and now it's ten times the size. So you know it attracts some birds and they are special birds I guess...The birds attract photographers. To me it's pretty but doesn't mean much. I couldn't stand there for more than a minute or two however...these people show up and are so still, quiet and focused whilst focusing these literal bazooka's for cameras. They spend hours trying to get the perfect shots. I bet they just might take National Geographic quality pics and thats cool but I am more fascinated by there passion. Determination to be there and waiting.

I'll admit that I do own a bazooka of a lens, and I have sat and waited for the perfect shot (and returned home with poor shots and lots of bug bites), but that's not what this project is about. At some point you realize that all you really have to show for all of your years alive are memories. Yeh, I've got a house, a car, a girlfriend, a few bikes, but none of those things help me remember where I've been and what I've seen.

My goal for this project has shifted a bit, once I have the math worked out on how the cameras shift as the focus changes, and I have it in a more durable form, I want to take a picture from within a group ride. Then when I get too old to keep up, I'll just put on my funny glasses and feel like I'm still there.