Tubeless

[weisan]

So I got like 4 new sets of wide-rim wheels that I built myself (HED, Pacenti, Velocity, DT Swiss) that happened to be all tubeless compatible but I never even bother to look into getting a set of tubeless tires. Am I missing out on something? :D :p

[p nut]

...Am I missing out on something? :D :p

Opportunity to field-test the patch kit and pump on every other ride like me?

[weisan]

Opportunity to field-test the patch kit and pump on every other ride like me?

That's what I am worried about.

For me, tubeless come under the same category as "disc brakes" - it ain't broken, why fix it? :D

[hollowgram5]

I have a set of Pacenti/Miche wheels set up tubeless. They are fun, haven't ridden them in a bit because that bike went tubular instead, but I liked them pretty well before.

I have also been running a first gen set of Crossmax29 wheels as tubeless road with 28s for a few years. I like them real well, and they get run on gravel mostly.

I have all types, and like them all just fine.

[foo_fighter]

Same boat as me. I really do not want to deal with the sealant, seating the tires and then potentially not being able to get the tire off if it flats. I can ride 40-45psi no problem with my current setup so I'm not 100% convinced of the benefits of tubeless. But then again, you won't really know until you try.

[oldpotatoe]

So I got like 4 new sets of wide-rim wheels that I built myself (HED, Pacenti, Velocity, DT Swiss) that happened to be all tubeless compatible but I never even bother to look into getting a set of tubeless tires. Am I missing out on something? :D :p

Put goop in your normal clincher tubes...and then no. I guess missing the mess.:eek:

[Cicli]

I was unsold on it.
A friend set up some Schwalbes with Stans. He couldnt say enough good about them. Third ride out and first with me he had a puncture. He was so stoked on his self sealing tires he wasnt even remotely prepared for a flat. Well, 30 miles out he had a rear flat that didnt seal. I laughed my ass off. I dont know how much of that Stans crap be had in there but the wheel made a few turns spraying that crap everywhere. No rags or a tube. He had that crap all over the place by the time he got the tube I had installed. Washed his hands in the grass and Gu Brew. By the time we got home his white tape was sho(i)t. I swore I would never run tubeless on the road. He dosent either.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I have no interest in going tubeless on the road, even with 42-45mm tires. But, I'm building my first MTB and am taking the plunge particularly because I'm going to run a relatively supple 29x3.0 in the front. I ordered Orange Seal sealant; looking forward to it.

[melac1]

Pros of tubeless:
You can run low psi(better traction)
No pinch flats
Great puncture resistance

Cons:
It can be a pain to setup

I think that tubeless is great for mountain/ cyclocross riding, but for road it's overkill.

[one60]

Running road tubeless on two wheelsets, (Stans & Boyds alloy rims). Despite the horror stories, I found using the proper technique tires can be mounted by hand and typically seated with a floor pump (mine is 20 year old Medaia that was never that good).
The new booster-type floor pumps should make the process even easier.

I can't really confirm it but the Schwalbe ONE's in tubeless feel faster than the clincher version they replaced at a much lower pressure.

The tires have sealed following punctures without issue assuming the sealant is liquid. It does dry out over time but can easily be checked & refilled by removing the valve core.

My advice is to give it a try & decide for yourself. Don't fear it, you've already made the biggest investment...if its not for you just go back to tubes.

[weisan]

Thank you One pal.

[gpendergast]

tubeless gives excellent cornering grip <40 psi. I have never felt any advantages higher than that, and the higher you go the less likely a pucture is to seal.

melac has it right, great for dirt. For road riding, tubulars are still the man to beat.

Proper base tape installation is key. there was just a great thread across the hall about it. and if you ride where it's easy to catch something in your tire add some glitter in with the sealant. works like platelets in the bloodstream.

[ripvanrando]

Specialized s works tubeless 26 mm has been the best for me so far. Easy to mount and seal. No flats. Holds air well. Stupid expensive.

Compass Jon Bon does not hold air well and the bead stretched so much it failed to seal

Schwalbe pro one holds seals and mounts well and hold air until the casing cuts as three of three tires did on three consecutive weekend Brevets.

I have patience. Not giving up. Schwalbe s-one and the new Victoria are my new tires to try. Vitoria is pending 28mm intro

[Kirk007]

Haven't had to fix a flat on the road yet but I think the ride of the Schwalbe and IRC's are, while not quite as good as tubular, better than open clinchers. I've had much worse luck with latex tubes than tubeless tires.

The trend that I'm bucking on road set-ups is tires greater than 28s. Doing a heads up comparison between Compass 32s and Vittoria corsa graphene 28s and I don't find any improvement in ride on the compass (at least on good pavement). And I find 25 tubeless to be easily the equivalent of 28 clinchers for ride quality. And Veloflex 23 -24mm tubulars beat them all.

[ofcounsel]

I've been running the Schwalbe Pro One in tubeless mode for about 6 months now. I'm happy with them. No flats or other issues. Of course, I carry a spare tube and patch kit just in case I have an issue. But so far, I haven't had the need to use it.

I've been running tubeless on my mountain bikes for about 5 years now, so I guess I don't worry much about tubeless. I'm used to tubeless.

[justaute]

FWIW...

Three sets of road tubeless tires on my two bikes (road & rain/cx/gravel) for the last two years. Sector 28. Schwalbe Pro One 25 and Pro One 28mm.

Thus far, have experienced two punctures and both times they sealed up without issue -- the first one was on Sector 28 and about ~10 miles from home; the second was on Pro One 25 and ~7 miles from car. Though, on the Pro One 25 puncture, it was ~3-4mm; although it sealed up, the tire just would not hold up to much pressure after that (<50 PSI). So, I patched it and have put another ~250 miles on it since then. I think the Sector 28 is the most puncture-resistant. Schwalbe Pro One, not One, is more supple, but more fragile. Picked up another set of tubeless from Panaracer.

No real issues with mounting the tires, but I did use ample soapy water. Oh...I weigh about 208 lbs (weight lifter), if that matter -- mostly muscle, of course. :)

[ColonelJLloyd]

... I don't find any improvement in ride on the compass (at least on good pavement). ...

That's pretty scarce stuff where I ride.

[hoonjr]

I guess I'm the only one who runs road tubeless w/o sealant. I just never bothered as I hardly ride enough these days to justify the trouble. The only flat I've had I simply replaced with a tube and road home. I never bothered changing anything and rode it that way until I retired the tired due to wear. I've now just jinxed myself and will probably doubleflat on my next ride.

[Kirk007]

That's pretty scarce stuff where I ride.

well, I wouldn't call my Seattle roads either; my typical route has broken concrete with big chunks missing, heaved roads etc. and see no advantage going over 28. Gravel, dirt, different story.

[Keith A]

I guess I'm the only one who runs road tubeless w/o sealant. I just never bothered as I hardly ride enough these days to justify the trouble. The only flat I've had I simply replaced with a tube and road home. I never bothered changing anything and rode it that way until I retired the tired due to wear. I've now just jinxed myself and will probably doubleflat on my next ride.Nope, you're not the only one. I"m running tubeless w/o sealant with a couple sets of Dura-Ace wheels. Like you said, if I have a flat, I pop in a tube and I'm on my way.

Having said that, I do have a tire that I bought recently on the forum, and I can't get to seal completely and am considering using sealant to get this to seal.

[stien]

The deal killer for me was getting a tube into the tire once I had a catastrophic tire cut. The Bontrager rim strip was so big and it has an integrated valve so I would have had to remove the entire rim strip and go without one at all, or carry electrical tape. Ridiculous IMO and I went back to regular clincher setup. I'd consider tubeless on my race only bike but even then, if it sits for a while the sealant congeals and the tire leaks.

[oldpotatoe]

Nope, you're not the only one. I"m running tubeless w/o sealant with a couple sets of Dura-Ace wheels. Like you said, if I have a flat, I pop in a tube and I'm on my way.

Having said that, I do have a tire that I bought recently on the forum, and I can't get to seal completely and am considering using sealant to get this to seal.

No problem getting the nut off the tubeless valve in the wild?

[p nut]

...Having said that, I do have a tire that I bought recently on the forum, and I can't get to seal completely and am considering using sealant to get this to seal.

I've used Mold Builder in the past with tires that had trouble sealing. Basically a latex based paste. I just brushed it around the bead. They can be found at most craft stores (Michael's, JoAnn's, Hobby Lobby, etc.).

No problem getting the nut off the tubeless valve in the wild?

They should just be finger tight. I've had no issues personally (on my mountain bikes that I run tubeless).

[jruhlen1980]

I'll probably try tubeless some day when I can afford the wheels. However, when I go on gravel rides with a group it sure seems like the guys running tubeless are always fussing with leaks and sealant.

FWIW I put some Orange Seal in my tubes and didn't flat once during the DK, despite bottoming out more than once when I didn't see the cattle guard in time and being certain I was going to have a pinch flat. And I'm heavy. YMMV.

[Keith A]

No problem getting the nut off the tubeless valve in the wild?Same experience as "p nut", never had an issue with this so far. FYI, I've only used the tubeless valves from Shimano and don't have experience any other brands.

[oldpotatoe]

Same experience as "p nut", never had an issue with this so far. FYI, I've only used the tubeless valves from Shimano and don't have experience any other brands.

Had some Mavic ones that would leak unless really cranked down. Orange seal much better.

[Keith A]

Had some Mavic ones that would leak unless really cranked down. Orange seal much better.Is "Orange Seal" your brand of choice?

[oldpotatoe]

Is "Orange Seal" your brand of choice?

Yes, in shop sold the sealant, valves and rim tape. Good prices, worked really well.

[benb]

I've been running tubeless on my MTB for about 10 years. I have UST rims, I buy tubeless tires, I never have any issues, I've had 2 flats in 10 years. I take the tires off a few times during the lifetime of the tire to clean out sealant mess and put new sealant back in. I've never really had any trouble with mounting the tires with my normal floor pump. I've never needed to mess with rim strips.

I am currently running 20psi in my front tire on the MTB and 25psi in the rear tire. They roll shockingly good and that's a 2.3" tire which I think measures out quite a bit bigger than that. No burping, amazing traction, etc.. I'm mostly X/C but I roll right through all the rock gardens and do jumps and drops as needed and don't really hesitate to do so, I completely trust the tires for that.

I won't try road without a similarly good setup. No messing with rim strips, etc.. for me.

I would much rather try tubeless road than tubular. Tubular sounds like way more of a PITA and then you're stuck with poor rolling resistance and expensive tires.

The 2 flats I've had tubeless in 10 years never required putting a tube in. One of them was really bad.. pretty solid 1/4"+ tear in the sidewall and the sealant still sealed good enough I could make it home just topping off the tire a few times. (I wasn't far away luckily) The other flat was this year, the leak was so slow it was only noticed the next day at home. The sealant was pretty old in that case. I actually went for one more ride knowing it had a slow leak. Then when it was convenient I just took the tire off, cleaned it up, put new sealant in, and it's holding air better than any of my tubed wheels again.

I don't really care about high pressure. If they can get a setup with a 28-30c or so tire that works in the 60-80psi range that'd be good enough for me. Next time I buy a wheelset I think I will try it out.

[oldpotatoe]

I've been running tubeless on my MTB for about 10 years. I have UST rims, I buy tubeless tires, I never have any issues, I've had 2 flats in 10 years. I take the tires off a few times during the lifetime of the tire to clean out sealant mess and put new sealant back in. I've never really had any trouble with mounting the tires with my normal floor pump. I've never needed to mess with rim strips.

I am currently running 20psi in my front tire on the MTB and 25psi in the rear tire. They roll shockingly good and that's a 2.3" tire which I think measures out quite a bit bigger than that. No burping, amazing traction, etc.. I'm mostly X/C but I roll right through all the rock gardens and do jumps and drops as needed and don't really hesitate to do so, I completely trust the tires for that.

I won't try road without a similarly good setup. No messing with rim strips, etc.. for me.

I would much rather try tubeless road than tubular. Tubular sounds like way more of a PITA and then you're stuck with poor rolling resistance and expensive tires.

The 2 flats I've had tubeless in 10 years never required putting a tube in. One of them was really bad.. pretty solid 1/4"+ tear in the sidewall and the sealant still sealed good enough I could make it home just topping off the tire a few times. (I wasn't far away luckily) The other flat was this year, the leak was so slow it was only noticed the next day at home. The sealant was pretty old in that case. I actually went for one more ride knowing it had a slow leak. Then when it was convenient I just took the tire off, cleaned it up, put new sealant in, and it's holding air better than any of my tubed wheels again.

I don't really care about high pressure. If they can get a setup with a 28-30c or so tire that works in the 60-80psi range that'd be good enough for me. Next time I buy a wheelset I think I will try it out.

I guess that's like saying steel chainring bolts are way heavier than aluminum. They are but they aren't heavy. Rolling resistance with tubulars isn't what some clinchers are but 'poor' it isn't. The differences are teeny and I doubt you could tell the difference in a normal road ride. Plus, check the $ of some tubeless lately? A decent one is often more $ than a decent tubular. PITA, sealant goop, valves, tape, seating, blah...pita.

[jzisk]

I've been using Stans 355 mtb since they were introduced... And Stans Alpha 340 on all my road bikes, also since inception. Lot of years of tubeless.

Very few punctures that don't seal themselves effectively. Now and then I need the CO2 to get home. Never have had to walk or call my patient wife for a lift. 5-6k miles per year on lousy roads in the outlying country around Ithaca, NY, area.

I also find the ride to be a supple, responsive step up from the best clinchers... Not quite sew-up feel, but almost that good. Corner nicely; perhaps lower roll friction (so say the ocd writers at Velo News...); cushy and comfy compared to the sew-ups, at 90/75 psi front/rear.

I like them. Perhaps if I were still racing I'd still be riding tubulars, but these are a nice ride.

My builds using Stans rims, but they have some supposedly well designed and executed wheels.

Anyway, a vote in favor of tubeless here, from a guy who'll never use disc brakes.

[nate2351]

It's all good until you finally do flat. I'll deal with flats tubes over sealant and tubeless tire beads.

[pjmsj21]

For me, ride quality is everything and I really appreciate my Neutron/Arenberg combination. However just one very small step down in ride quality are my Panenti/Schwalbe Ones that are tubeless. Clinchers with tubes are my least favorite and most flat prone. Lots of great options out there but I wouldn't dismiss tubeless until you try them rather them yourself. They ride really nicely and I didn't find them all that difficult.

[Keith A]

It's all good until you finally do flat. I'll deal with flats tubes over sealant and tubeless tire beads.That's the other factor which has kept from using sealant. If I did flat with sealant, and the sealant didn't do it's job, then I'm on the side of the road trying to put a tube in a tire that has sealant in it...seems like a potential for a big mess.

[p nut]

Not a potential, but a definite recipe for a big mess. The other thing is burps. I've had a few of those on the mountain bike. Usually not a big deal, but somewhat freaky when it happens. I can deal with it. But on the road? 50-60mph descents and in the back of my head will always be "if the tire burps, I'm down for the count." I just don't fully trust high pressure tubeless set ups (yet).

[Keith A]

p nut -- Never had an burps on my road tubeless and I've logged a bunch of miles on these.

[p nut]

p nut -- Never had an burps on my road tubeless and I've logged a bunch of miles on these.

Yes, I'm sure lots of had zero issues regarding that. Just my own (perhaps unfounded) paranoia. I've had burps on other tubeless set ups and even beads blowing completely off (this was on a MTB set up where I took it above 40 psi--not recommended). The long descents just won't be enjoyable with that in the back of my mind. I'll take the peace of mind and occasional flats. :)

[benb]

40 psi on a mountain bike? Must have been skinny tires.

I have had 0 burps on my current tires, they're Specialized Purgatory 2.3". Min pressure rating is 35psi, they are rocks at that pressure and way too much pressure for me, but still, no burps or issues running as low as 20psi.

Then again I never pinch flat on just about anything, I used to run really low pressures with tubes too. Hard for me to get too worked up about any tire setup as almost nothing gives me issues. I've only had 1 road flat this year I think in close to 3000 miles.

[Keith A]

...I'll take the peace of mind and occasional flats. :)That's an important issue.

[foo_fighter]

2 more questions:

Let's say you ride tubeless without sealant, could you carry a small injector of sealant instead of a tube or would you be worried about it not sealing and would carry a tube anyway? If the sealant worked, you wouldn't have to break the bead.

If you put a latex tube in a tubeless tire and then seal the valve(maybe coat the outside with leak sealer) and valve/hole interface, wouldn't it hold air a lot better than a normal latex tube? If not where does the air go?