"Falling" on the pedals

[bikemoore]

To whoever recently posted responses, with links to videos, in another thread about "falling on the pedals": thank you. I've been cycling seriously for 27 years and thought that I knew what I was doing. But the posts about "falling on the pedals" intrigued me enough to try an admittedly not-very-scientific experiment on my rides over the past two weeks to see if a) I could figure out what is "falling on the pedals" and b) if I could figure it out, what do I think of it? My preliminary conclusion after 4 very hilly rides: old dogs can and should learn new tricks.....I like "falling on the pedals"......a lot. I now believe that I have actually been failing to effectively "fire" on the down stroke in my quest for a smooth stroke thus greatly limiting my effective power.

Ever since I started cycling enough to read about pedaling techniques, I've been pursuing a smooth stroke believing that a) smooth = efficient = strong and b) the way to that smooth stroke is to concentrate the parts of my stroke other than the down stroke because we are naturally wired to fire on the down stroke and therefore don't need to intentionally fire. Therefore, I concentrated on "scraping mud" through the bottom and lifting my leg weight through the up stroke to put my leg in position to naturally fire on the down stroke.

Sounds reasonable enough, but I've been struggling enough on climbs to be open to the right new idea (or at least new to me). The results of 5 hilly rides has me quite excited. I think I quickly found out what is the technique and the rhythm of it, especially at the slower cadence of climbing or when looking to "catch up" to a longer gear.

The terrain of my normal routes features as many 7-minute long, 5-13% (or steeper if you want) climbs as you want (I fit 4 climbs into a 2 hour ride plus the normal rollers in between). It feels to me like "falling on the pedals" involves rocking my upper body to establish a rhythm that has me actually concentrating on a strong down stroke with just enough leverage on the bars to counteract the force of the down stroke. Not a huge lever and not an exaggerated rocking motion, just a subtle and effective firing through the down stroke aided by a slight shift of my upper body to that side of my stroke and a slight lowering and extension of my upper body over the bars so that I am subtly "falling" on the pedal through the down stroke. It is easier to feel and use while climbing and accelerating onto a higher gear.

So what has me excited about it? Instead of constantly feeling like I am climbing as fast as I can, I feel like the same pace (and a bit faster) up the hill is a deliberate, controlled effort with considerable room for more if I choose. I know that a faster pace will come at a cost, but I like that the pace I'm riding feels more like a choice instead of my limit. I can tell that this technique is more effectively engaging my core, glutes, and upper body and has completely halted any tendency to slide forward on the saddle. I'm finding my lower back is more fatigued as I'm using it more along with my glutes, but my shoulders and neck feel good from a more bent-arm posture over the bars counteracted by the stronger down stroke.

I'm certainly intrigued and will continue to explore this technique. It just feels like I have a new limit to explore.

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[John H.]

A lot of the things that you mention/describe make me think that not having low enough gears could be as much or more of an issue for you than "falling on the pedals" or not.
Body rock and feeling like you are going as hard as you can come to mind.
Merckx had the body rock because he was over-geared. They all were in those days.

[redir]

I am not quite sure what you mean by falling on the pedals, I didn't read this other thread either, but when I switched to flat pedals on my mountain bike I started thinking that scraping the mud was really just old school thinking and probably just based on the intuition of some great trainer of the time. I could be wrong but I don't notice any inefficiency on riding flats on my mountain bike.

[bikemoore]

A lot of the things that you mention/describe make me think that not having low enough gears could be as much or more of an issue for you than "falling on the pedals" or not.
Body rock and feeling like you are going as hard as you can come to mind.
Merckx had the body rock because he was over-geared. They all were in those days.
My gearing is 39-53 x 13-26 at 195 lbs weight. 6'-3" with long femurs. I'm better at "levering" the pedals than spinning them fast. For me, lower gearing results in slower climbing as I settle into the same old cadence, but on a lower gear, or I seek out the same gearing anyway and thus negate the purpose of having the lower gear.
A lot of the things that you mention/describe make me think that not having low enough gears could be as much or more of an issue for you than "falling on the pedals" or not.
Body rock and feeling like you are going as hard as you can come to mind.
Merckx had the body rock because he was over-geared. They all were in those days.


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[eBAUMANN]

I am not quite sure what you mean by falling on the pedals, I didn't read this other thread either, but when I switched to flat pedals on my mountain bike I started thinking that scraping the mud was really just old school thinking and probably just based on the intuition of some great trainer of the time. I could be wrong but I don't notice any inefficiency on riding flats on my mountain bike.


http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=176766

[redir]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=176766

Thanks. Looks like the links to his video's are no longer online so I'm still confused as to what falling means.

[etu]

I had a similar revelation thanks largely to TiDesigns. "Falling" on the pedals does work!
A lot of people have figured this out on their own at an unconscious level, but we are lucky to have Ed who can articulate these techniques in a clear and accessible manner.
On the climbs, I use a gear or two higher than before and feel much more in control of my efforts. Part of this sensation may be that I feel limited by my heart and lungs rather than my legs.
You may also find that the benefits are not limited to hills. I am going a lot faster for longer on the flats. The amount of power and endurance available from the lower core and glutes is unbelievable!

[fourflys]

Thanks. Looks like the links to his video's are no longer online so I'm still confused as to what falling means.

maybe this:
https://edsasslercoaching.com/the-learning-process/pedal-stroke-101/

[spookyload]

I had a similar revelation thanks largely to TiDesigns. "Falling" on the pedals does work!
A lot of people have figured this out on their own at an unconscious level, but we are lucky to have Ed who can articulate these techniques in a clear and accessible manner.
On the climbs, I use a gear or two higher than before and feel much more in control of my efforts. Part of this sensation may be that I feel limited by my heart and lungs rather than my legs.
You may also find that the benefits are not limited to hills. I am going a lot faster for longer on the flats. The amount of power and endurance available from the lower core and glutes is unbelievable!

I may be naive, but wasn't this simply called gear mashing back in the days before lance made spinning at 110 cadence fashionable?

[etu]

I may be naive, but wasn't this simply called gear mashing back in the days before lance made spinning at 110 cadence fashionable?

that's what i used to think, but it really has to do with using your glutes and core rather than just your quads. when i was just getting into cycling i had a 52/42 super record crankset and i had to mash gears. this didn't last too long once i moved to the hilly SF Bay Area as my knees couldn't take the torque. but now with this technique, i can push big gears at a slower cadence without stressing out my knees because the glutes are doing the work. Ed teaches not only to fall into the pedals, but to try to relax the quads at the same time. trust me, it's a great feeling grinding up a 10+% section while focusing on relaxing, not pushing.

[Ti Designs]

Having a rider fall into the pedals is my teaching trick to recruit the glutes because you don't really have a mechanism for firing them. I've had a number of riders on my test rig, and I've asked them to fire their glutes, or think about extending from the hip. None of them generated much force. It turns out that it's very hard to fire the glutes without tension at the upper attachment point. Falling into the pedals is by far the easiest way I've found to teach using the glutes. After a while it becomes second nature, the position on the bike allows the rider to use the glutes, and the skill set has been learned.

Relaxing the quads is partly a matter of fit on the bike, but you can get an idea of how it works by sitting on the edge of a chair and leaning forward. If your feet are too far under you, as soon as your center of gravity gets past your feet your quads will come into the action to keep you from falling forward. If you put your feet too far away from the seat, you'll have a line of support under your hips, a line of support under your feet, and your body weight somewhere between them. Your hamstrings will fire to pull the support together under your center of gravity.

[redir]

maybe this:
https://edsasslercoaching.com/the-learning-process/pedal-stroke-101/

Thanks for that.

I guess I always thought that was just intuitive. The bars are there for steering not for man handling while pedaling. I don't always lay off the bars but during times of stress, like on a climb for example, when you don't put any weight on the bars then it all goes into the pedals and you can really feel it.

[bikemoore]

maybe this:
https://edsasslercoaching.com/the-learning-process/pedal-stroke-101/

This describes what I was trying to do much better than my description. I think I was getting it pretty close in my experimental rides. I knew that I wasn't "mashing" by pushing down on the pedals. I believe I had the correct feel for the "falling" onto the bars resulting in a natural firing through the down stroke without feeling like I was stressing my quads at all and I had a very relaxed feel on the bars while also exerting a subtle leverage. Now with this video, I have more ammunition to continue to explore this pedaling technique.

[etu]

This describes what I was trying to do much better than my description. I think I was getting it pretty close in my experimental rides. I knew that I wasn't "mashing" by pushing down on the pedals. I believe I had the correct feel for the "falling" onto the bars resulting in a natural firing through the down stroke without feeling like I was stressing my quads at all and I had a very relaxed feel on the bars while also exerting a subtle leverage. Now with this video, I have more ammunition to continue to explore this pedaling technique.

welcome to the tribe! :beer:

[bikemoore]

More data. After yesterday's ride in which I climbed some of hardest hills around here, my glutes, for the first time ever in my 27 years of cycling, are my most tired muscle group. I'm on the right track.....

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[Waldo]

I watched Stars and Water Carriers last night. It was interesting to watch the entire 1973 peloton falling all over the pedals, some doing so at pretty high cadences (Eddy bobbing up and down in low 80s on some climbs).

[Ti Designs]

From another thread:

I have no idea if we're talking anything significant. In other words, are we talking about a 1% improvement when other types of training are 10x as effective?

There are lots of studies which say that different pedaling techniques do nothing, and the common belief is that fitness is the only way to get faster. It seems to me that we have a number of people here who have actually tried this method, a few that I've even worked with. So, what are we talking about? 1%? 10%?? More???

[fourflys]

I'd say give it a try and see if it works for you... that's my plan... if it doesn't, I'll try something else... even if it does work, I would probably try other methods as well to test them out... pretty sure Ti said something to that effect at some point anyway...

[MattTuck]

From another thread:



There are lots of studies which say that different pedaling techniques do nothing, and the common belief is that fitness is the only way to get faster. It seems to me that we have a number of people here who have actually tried this method, a few that I've even worked with. So, what are we talking about? 1%? 10%?? More???

Oh, I've tried it also, and have spent a lot of time thinking about unlearning some really poor pedaling patterns in which I was compensating for weakness in one glute with over reliance on that quad. So, I am acutely aware of how it can feel to both fire the glute to go down, and also kick the leg to go forward, as it often felt like I had two different legs, doing those two things. It is a work in progress to retrain the muscles, and not something that I discount. But it is part of a bigger picture surrounding my other training.

My point was that it would be nice to have an idea of the magnitude of the gains that one could expect (even if they are just estimated), if one doesn't have a pathological pedaling technique, from a focus on improving the pedal stroke. Do the riders you work with have a measurable improvement? And, I know that is hard to estimate because if they're training AND working on pedal stroke, it is hard to attribute gains to one or the other.

[Ti Designs]

Oh, I've tried it also, and have spent a lot of time thinking about unlearning some really poor pedaling patterns in which I was compensating for weakness in one glute with over reliance on that quad. So, I am acutely aware of how it can feel to both fire the glute to go down, and also kick the leg to go forward, as it often felt like I had two different legs, doing those two things. It is a work in progress to retrain the muscles, and not something that I discount. But it is part of a bigger picture surrounding my other training.

You lived one town over from Wheelworks, you should have come in. Having discrepancies between the sides is in part a fitting issue, one which I deal with a lot.

My point was that it would be nice to have an idea of the magnitude of the gains that one could expect (even if they are just estimated), if one doesn't have a pathological pedaling technique, from a focus on improving the pedal stroke. Do the riders you work with have a measurable improvement? And, I know that is hard to estimate because if they're training AND working on pedal stroke, it is hard to attribute gains to one or the other.

I wanted to have the people I've worked with answer that, otherwise I look like the town idiot claiming that something works for me that doesn't work for anyone else... As for technique vs. fitness, I'm 52, my fitness has been going in the wrong direction for at least 10 years, yet I'm just as fast. I've never underestimated how much there is to learn (or how back my "natural" pedal stroke is), I keep finding places to make improvements and it keeps working...

[John H.]

Yes- old school guys certainly did "fall on the pedals"- they were all over-geared too ;)
144m bolt circle cranks and short cage derailleurs with not much capacity saw to that.

I watched Stars and Water Carriers last night. It was interesting to watch the entire 1973 peloton falling all over the pedals, some doing so at pretty high cadences (Eddy bobbing up and down in low 80s on some climbs).

[nate2351]

I watched Stars and Water Carriers last night. It was interesting to watch the entire 1973 peloton falling all over the pedals, some doing so at pretty high cadences (Eddy bobbing up and down in low 80s on some climbs).

This is why climbing speeds from the 1970s have never been surpassed. /s

[Ti Designs]

Better doping meant finding better ways of using the cardiovascular system without taxing the muscles too much more, so the cadence goes way up and the gearing comes down a bit. Lance made high cadence climbing the in thing, I briefly saw that Froome guy climbing - tell me you could ever lower your heart rate doing that... Froome is different, he's taken it to a whole new level. In the 70's, John Allis won a race in France (they didn't think an american could ever do that), and he fell asleep in the official's car on the drive back - that was their drug testing at the time. Froome can't sit still, he has to keep moving. Running up the mountain without a bike or pedaling while tucked in below the saddle... There's something wrong with that. There's really something wrong with a zillion people watching the Tour, thinking "this is how to ride a bike". From the 60's and 70's I've watched Ritter - he could climb, he could time trial, he had good days, he had bad days. He was human, and he learned how to ride. Bobbing up and down on the climbs, tucked in and smooth on the time trials, simply amazing on the track. The best part was that I could figure out what he's doing and make it work for myself.

[stephenmarklay]

I watched Stars and Water Carriers last night. It was interesting to watch the entire 1973 peloton falling all over the pedals, some doing so at pretty high cadences (Eddy bobbing up and down in low 80s on some climbs).

I don’t think I have ever watched this. I guess I will now!

[nate2351]

Better doping meant finding better ways of using the cardiovascular system without taxing the muscles too much more, so the cadence goes way up and the gearing comes down a bit. Lance made high cadence climbing the in thing, I briefly saw that Froome guy climbing - tell me you could ever lower your heart rate doing that... Froome is different, he's taken it to a whole new level. In the 70's, John Allis won a race in France (they didn't think an american could ever do that), and he fell asleep in the official's car on the drive back - that was their drug testing at the time. Froome can't sit still, he has to keep moving. Running up the mountain without a bike or pedaling while tucked in below the saddle... There's something wrong with that. There's really something wrong with a zillion people watching the Tour, thinking "this is how to ride a bike". From the 60's and 70's I've watched Ritter - he could climb, he could time trial, he had good days, he had bad days. He was human, and he learned how to ride. Bobbing up and down on the climbs, tucked in and smooth on the time trials, simply amazing on the track. The best part was that I could figure out what he's doing and make it work for myself.

You can't just blow off 40 years of sports science by saying "it's better doping". That's some tinfoil hat nonsense.

[dnc]

I've watched Ritter - he could climb, he could time trial, he had good days, he had bad days. He was human, and he learned how to ride. Bobbing up and down on the climbs, tucked in and smooth on the time trials, simply amazing on the track. The best part was that I could figure out what he's doing and make it work for myself.


Now that you have figured it out, can you explain how he pedalled in flat time trials when not using the bobbing up and down climbing technique.

[OtayBW]

I've tried this, too, and I find the main benefit for me is really in fatigue reduction in muscle groups in transferring from quads to glutes, or vice versa. Whether that translates to increased speed is unknown to me, but it would be an indirect effect.

[redir]

BTW I took up running about a year ago and a good runner friend of mine said that his technique in running is to catch yourself in a forward fall... Just find it interesting that the concept applies there as well.

[Ti Designs]

You can't just blow off 40 years of sports science by saying "it's better doping". That's some tinfoil hat nonsense.

40 years of sports science still hasn't changed the cardiovascular response to higher cadence, and yet in pro racing something has...

[nate2351]

40 years of sports science still hasn't changed the cardiovascular response to higher cadence, and yet in pro racing something has...

Your right something has changed; being able to study and build training plans based off of things like heart rate, power, kilo joules, vO2 max, muscle oxygen saturation, and inspiration/expiration rate has.

[makoti]

Your right something has changed; being able to study and build training plans based off of things like heart rate, power, kilo joules, vO2 max, muscle oxygen saturation, and inspiration/expiration rate has.

Not to mention a few advancements in equipment...

[Ti Designs]

Your right something has changed; being able to study and build training plans based off of things like heart rate, power, kilo joules, vO2 max, muscle oxygen saturation, and inspiration/expiration rate has.

No doubt that training and equipment has gotten better, but there will always be a cardiovascular inefficiency built into very high cadences, just as there's a limit of muscular strength at very low cadences. It's hard not to question how the top athletes are somehow outside of that range.

[dnc]

BTW I took up running about a year ago and a good runner friend of mine said that his technique in running is to catch yourself in a forward fall... Just find it interesting that the concept applies there as well.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

https://www.google.ie/#q=leaning+forward+when+running

[stephenmarklay]

Better doping meant finding better ways of using the cardiovascular system without taxing the muscles too much more, so the cadence goes way up and the gearing comes down a bit. Lance made high cadence climbing the in thing, I briefly saw that Froome guy climbing - tell me you could ever lower your heart rate doing that... Froome is different, he's taken it to a whole new level. In the 70's, John Allis won a race in France (they didn't think an american could ever do that), and he fell asleep in the official's car on the drive back - that was their drug testing at the time. Froome can't sit still, he has to keep moving. Running up the mountain without a bike or pedaling while tucked in below the saddle... There's something wrong with that. There's really something wrong with a zillion people watching the Tour, thinking "this is how to ride a bike". From the 60's and 70's I've watched Ritter - he could climb, he could time trial, he had good days, he had bad days. He was human, and he learned how to ride. Bobbing up and down on the climbs, tucked in and smooth on the time trials, simply amazing on the track. The best part was that I could figure out what he's doing and make it work for myself.

The higher cadence Lance popularized made me wonder as well about shift the load to the blood doped system. I certainly don’t seem to make it work and would rather be in the 80’s for cadence. Ulrich however was just as doped and it seemed to work with his more pedestrian grinder style.

Regardless of the overall gains 1% 10% etc we, as cyclists, pedal. That is what we do so why on earth would you not want to spend time learning it pedal more efficiently? If I were close to you I would be inquiring about some training.

As a side note I have been doing a kung fu (variation) for fun. We do straight punches. Its simple enough, you just push your hand out, then over the top with the next and so on and so forth.

The guys I train with have done this for years and years. They have this very fluid, fast and powerful punches while mine are forced, slower and less powerful. It reminds me of pedaling. There is an economy of motion that I lack that they have. Same with pedaling.

[chwupper]

More data. After yesterday's ride in which I climbed some of hardest hills around here, my glutes, for the first time ever in my 27 years of cycling, are my most tired muscle group. I'm on the right track.....

This is how I knew I was on the right track, too. It's a wonderful thing to be on the fixed gear into the wind or riding tough climbs and knowing you can depend on those muscles for endurance and power. I find that I can just keep going and going. Oh ya, without my heart rate going through the ceiling.

[redir]

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

https://www.google.ie/#q=leaning+forward+when+running

Ah I see. Good reads, thanks.

[benb]

Better doping meant finding better ways of using the cardiovascular system without taxing the muscles too much more, so the cadence goes way up and the gearing comes down a bit. Lance made high cadence climbing the in thing, I briefly saw that Froome guy climbing - tell me you could ever lower your heart rate doing that... Froome is different, he's taken it to a whole new level. In the 70's, John Allis won a race in France (they didn't think an american could ever do that), and he fell asleep in the official's car on the drive back - that was their drug testing at the time. Froome can't sit still, he has to keep moving. Running up the mountain without a bike or pedaling while tucked in below the saddle... There's something wrong with that. There's really something wrong with a zillion people watching the Tour, thinking "this is how to ride a bike". From the 60's and 70's I've watched Ritter - he could climb, he could time trial, he had good days, he had bad days. He was human, and he learned how to ride. Bobbing up and down on the climbs, tucked in and smooth on the time trials, simply amazing on the track. The best part was that I could figure out what he's doing and make it work for myself.

++ this a million times. So much snake oil in what the pros are doing.

It's the same thing as picking up muscle and fitness and trying to take advice on lifting weights from the 300lb guy writing the article who is injecting a gallon of drugs every week. Do 100 sets every day!

[nate2351]

++ this a million times. So much snake oil in what the pros are doing.

It's the same thing as picking up muscle and fitness and trying to take advice on lifting weights from the 300lb guy writing the article who is injecting a gallon of drugs every week. Do 100 sets every day!

Just because you can't achieve it doesn't mean it isn't possible and it sure as hell doesn't mean everyone who has is on something.

[benb]

Just because you can't achieve it doesn't mean it isn't possible and it sure as hell doesn't mean everyone who has is on something.

You got any extra Livestrong bracelets? I think I lost mine.

[nate2351]

You got any extra Livestrong bracelets? I think I lost mine.

sweet lance reference

[smontanaro]

One more data point. I've tried Ed Sassler's falling into the pedals idea a bit, and while I have no objective data (like improved race results or Strava segments) to report, I do believe it's helped me. I can definitely tell when I've engaged my glutes, or when I drift off and start using my quads too much (they do tire quickly). On a recent ride from Evanston, IL to St. Joe, MI, I found I was pretty much fine at the end, and wasn't hobbling around the next day. (I had done the same ride several years ago, with somewhat different after-ride perceptions.)

I was motivated to pen this missive because I accidentally set up one of my bikes to support this training method. I thought I would describe it briefly. I normally use Look KeO pedals, but had swapped in a pair of Specialized Touring pedals (http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=cbc6b9bf-b1a1-45bf-8f88-0bee2382df1d&Enum=109) recently so I could toodle around town with my wife while wearing sneakers a week or so ago. I didn't bother to install toe clips. I decided I'd ride that bike to work yesterday without swapping back to my KeOs. Instead, I grabbed a pair of Hasus VTG03 shoes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/49705339@N00/sets/72157670511297671) I started using recently (Ellen calls them my "ballet slippers"). I figured the rubber soles would be grippy enough to keep my feet from sliding around, but I was wrong. Whoops, there go the quads. Without toe clips I had no hip flexors either, so I wound up riding the entire commute (about 30 miles round-trip) with just my glutes. It worked fine, and I got a lot of practice engaging them.

As Harvey Sachs says, of course, YMMV.

[FlashUNC]

Top tube pedaling means they're doping now? That's an odd jump to make.

And I say this as someone in the "of course they're all doped" camp.

[unterhausen]

it was a bit of a juxtaposition since back in the day they were all on stimulants so they couldn't sit still. Don't think anyone bothers with that any more, too easy to catch, so Froome probably is just a little hyper.

[Dave B]

I just cannot figure this out. I am trying to interpret what i Am reading into what the sensations would be like if I am doing this right.

I have tried to mimic what I can interpret from videos, I am trying to utilize my glutes, but I guess I just don't get it.

Plus now the outside of my right knee hurts. I have tried raising, lowering saddle, and less toe in on the pedals and widened my stance on the pedals.

I am a hot mess it seems.

[djdj]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7RL5A2Dm3Q

[Ti Designs]

I just cannot figure this out. I am trying to interpret what i Am reading into what the sensations would be like if I am doing this right.

I have tried to mimic what I can interpret from videos, I am trying to utilize my glutes, but I guess I just don't get it.

The website strongly suggests that you set up a camera and monitor, so you can watch what's really happening. Don't skip that part...

Plus now the outside of my right knee hurts. I have tried raising, lowering saddle, and less toe in on the pedals and widened my stance on the pedals.

This is why I either coach in person, or I need video. I've heard that complaint often enough to guess that you're twisting your body instead of falling straight onto the pedal. The twisting motion moves the hip forward, bringing the knee inboard and increasing tension across the IT band. When I'm teaching this, people find the need to do things that make no sense. They twist or they push or they point their toes or drop their heel... A sack of potatoes could do this perfectly, if you push a sack of potatoes off a counter it falls straight down. Be the sack of potatoes...

If you don't mind posting video, and giving me the video in a file format I can edit, I would be happy to mark up the video to show where and how things are going wrong. Sort of a video training/fitting session on the forum.

[Dave B]

The website strongly suggests that you set up a camera and monitor, so you can watch what's really happening. Don't skip that part...



This is why I either coach in person, or I need video. I've heard that complaint often enough to guess that you're twisting your body instead of falling straight onto the pedal. The twisting motion moves the hip forward, bringing the knee inboard and increasing tension across the IT band. When I'm teaching this, people find the need to do things that make no sense. They twist or they push or they point their toes or drop their heel... A sack of potatoes could do this perfectly, if you push a sack of potatoes off a counter it falls straight down. Be the sack of potatoes...

If you don't mind posting video, and giving me the video in a file format I can edit, I would be happy to mark up the video to show where and how things are going wrong. Sort of a video training/fitting session on the forum.


Well the twisting aspect of what you wrote makes a lot of sense. I saw several videos posted through this thread showing professionals climb and they all seemed to be bouncing their upper body as they pedalded. I must have tried to mimic this without really realizing *** I was doing. Next time out I will pay attention to this.

As for a video I need to borrow a trainer, but when I get that video I would happily send it or post it.

I have a couple of time when riding up a hill...even a smallish one have tried to simulate the movement of walking like I am almost sure I read and it did seem easier on my quads.

I truly appreciate the guidance as I would love to be able to climb/ride better or at least be able to increase my ability to do so.

Thank you for your input on this and other topics!


PS: I do realize that coaching, advising, or instructing over a chat forum is difficult. I do hope that comes across as I cannot imagine how frustrating that is for someone on your end.

[Ti Designs]

I've found a victim - er, I mean subject to work with in explaining the process. As it all starts with fitting, I'm gonna repost a video I made a while back:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlcjl05epA

I've tried to put fitting on video many times, I always think of them as failures because a real fitting is driven by the rider I'm fitting. The best I can do here is present a lot of "what if" conditions. Just the same, I have to start somewhere...

The camera really does add 20 pounds, I'm not that chubby!!!

I also forgot to roll the credits at the end, so I would like to thank my major sponsors - Specialized, Ben & Jerry's, Sharpie, the endowment for bad fitting videos, and viewers like you.

[dnc]

I'm finding my lower back is more fatigued as I'm using it more along with my glutes.



Which is why this is not for those who have a defective lower back because like a chain the lower back is only as strong as its weakest link. Stress in this area is the root cause of cycling related lower back pain.