HELP! Stuck BB cup on a Ti frame

[Bim]

What's the best way to remove a stuck BB cup from a Ti frame? The left cup came off with a bit of force but the right cup is stuck in there. I've tried removing it a couple times but no dice. Stripping the splines would be baaaddd.. Would wd40 help? I'd really appreciate any tips.

[bikinchris]

No WD40 won't help on Ti and Al.
I think you are going to have to cut it and break it out in pieces

[Bim]

Man.. I don't see how I could do that. So wd40 won't do a thing if I sprayed some?

I'm thinking of squirting some from the NDS and let it soak the threads for a bit before trying to turn it again..

[Louis]

Use patience and some real penetrating oil.

I'd go with Liquid Wrench.

From the ADV forum:

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/penetrating-oils.531056/


Happy knuckle busting !
Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts.
Significant results! They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque
required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.
*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*
None ..................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone.
Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local
machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that
"Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price. "

[ultraman6970]

Did you use a piece something like a quick release to hold the tool in place?? If you did not the use of washers and a quick release helps a lot at the time to wack whatever you are using to turn the tool with a hammer or your foot.

[Brian Cdn]

Bim

Take it in to a LBS and let them bust it lose for you.

There's a few in the hood that have good wrench services.


Cheers,

B

[Bim]

Hey Brian, who would you recommend?

I just got this frame earlier today. If the LBS messes it up, I'm stuck with it..

[Louis]

Unless you're in a rush, apply some penetrating oil once or twice a day for a few days and let it sit. That will help whoever does the final removal job.

[Bim]

Thanks guys! I've squirted some wd40 (all i have) in there. I'll let it soak overnight and try again tomorrow. Appreciate all your tips!

[GuyGadois]

Is that cup made from aluminum? If so, take a new bottle of air in a can, turn it upside down and spray that cup and freeze it completely (a few minutes of spraying it). The aluminum should reduce in size and break the seal. Try and take it off then. If that doesn't work then add the penetrating oil. Give that stuff days, weeks, months and years to work. I have used the upside down can to work well with stuck parts on steel bikes before, maybe it would work on titanium too.

GG

[Louis]

And be sure to use a quick release to clamp everything together (not super tight, since you want stuff to be able to back off just a bit) so your tool is less likely to slip out of the cup splines.

[Bim]

Guy, I believe the cups are AL (Record BB). What's air in a can, like Co2 cartridges? I wonder if those are available here in Canada..

Thanks Louis! I've clamped the tool to the BB cup with a QR.

[cadence90]

Bim, "air in a can" is simply compressed air. It is commonly used to dust off computers, etc. I'm sure that even in Canada it is widely available, at any hardware or computer/photo store.

Whatever brand you buy needs to contain tetrafluoroethane or difluoroethane.

The fluorocarbon in the can is a liquid under pressure. When you spray the can upright, only the fluorocarbon vapor at the top of the can is released. When you turn the can upside-down, the cold liquid is forced out instead. So, you need to spray upside down.

Good luck.

[mjb266]

Seriously, on this one, trust the wisdom on penetrating oil and patience provided above. WD-40 is crap in this application, and penetrating oil at ~$10 is a bargain if you can apply daily and wait a week or two. If not, your impatience is going to find out what bashing the bottom bracket out of the stuck cup and subsequently cutting that cup out with a hack saw (8-10 hours of labor) looks like. Patience is going to save you a lot of energy and frustration on this one.

The responses above are experience talking...and you don't have any on this circumstance so listen to them...please. Then mail each a beer at $5/ each as a thank you.

[Bim]

Thanks, I'll pickup some penetrating oil tomorrow. I was told I could use a pipe freezer kit to freeze the cup. Will have to check the hardware stores tomorrow and see what's available.

[efaust_o]

if so, this worked on a seat post for me. Got it from Sheldon Brown (google him)

Aluminum seatposts frequently become stuck by corrosion also, and penetrating oil is almost useless against aluminum oxide. Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like magic by using ammonia.

[Cicli]

if so, this worked on a seat post for me. Got it from Sheldon Brown (google him)

Aluminum seatposts frequently become stuck by corrosion also, and penetrating oil is almost useless against aluminum oxide. Fortunately, aluminum oxide can be dissolved like magic by using ammonia.

I used the ammonia trick to disolve a stem someone cut off in a steel fork. Took a while but worked perfectly.
It probably wouldnt touch Ti and your problem will be solved.

[oldpotatoe]

some in there and then find a wrench that 'bolts' onto the RH cup, like the TACX tool..the right hand cup is left threaded, ya know that, right? So it loosens clockwise..righty-loosey..?

[efaust_o]

I used the ammonia trick to disolve a stem someone cut off in a steel fork. Took a while but worked perfectly.
It probably wouldnt touch Ti and your problem will be solved.

Yes, no detriment to Ti frame....cures by modern chemistry! Best I remember applied by squirt bottle around junction area. Also good for warding off swallows in our porch area..:)

[Black Dog]

Several things things can help here.

1. Make 100% sure you are turning in the correct direction.
2. Use a 2 foot breaker bar to generate enough torque.
3. Use a quick release to make sure the tool stays in the cup and does not slip under force.

[Mikej]

Are you turning it the correct way? Whoops - see above post

[GuyGadois]

Thanks, I'll pickup some penetrating oil tomorrow. I was told I could use a pipe freezer kit to freeze the cup. Will have to check the hardware stores tomorrow and see what's available.

Or go to any Staples or office supply store and buy the compressed air stuff you spray a keyboard with. Try to just spray the cups because you want them to shrink. The cold won't hurt anything but you just want the cups to get a lot colder. Penetrating oil will have a very difficult time with the AL to TI bond. AL has a chemical reaction with TI and they fuse. Penetrating oil needs a crack to work. This is my understanding.

[icepick_trotsky]

1. Firmly attach breaker bar.

2. Thwack bar with rubber mallet hard as you can.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Or go to any Staples or office supply store and buy the compressed air stuff you spray a keyboard with. Try to just spray the cups because you want them to shrink. The cold won't hurt anything but you just want the cups to get a lot colder. Penetrating oil will have a very difficult time with the AL to TI bond. AL has a chemical reaction with TI and they fuse. Penetrating oil needs a crack to work. This is my understanding.

Why generic compressed air? Do they not sell Freeze-Off (http://crcindustries.com/auto/?s=05002) in Canada? It's available here at any auto parts store.

[Bim]

I found a similar product made by Rust Check:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rust-check-rust-freeze-0477900p.html?utm_campaign=bazaarvoice&utm_medium=SearchVoice&utm_source=RatingsAndReviews&utm_content=Default

I'll try this later plus some liquid wrench. Hopefully these 2 will do the job!

Thanks everyone for the tips!

[Jgrooms]

An ATF solvent mix is worth the effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobdenver1961]

Get a LONG pipe to go over the wrench. I went to Lowe's and got a 6' long steel pipe to get a bottom bracket out of a Colnago frame several months ago. Leverage is your friend. Agree with everyone else. Make sure that your bottom bracket tool is held tightly in place otherwise it will strip out the splines.

Also WD-40 is not going to do anything. Penetrating Oil, PB Blaster. Soak it down many times and let it sit for several days. Not a cure but certainly helps.

[Bim]

Great news guys!

BB is out! In case you're wondering about the frame, here are a couple pics.

Thanks again, you guys are amazing! Donation sent to webmaster!

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k475/Bimdapogs/Merlin%20Extralight/20160714_182602.jpg (http://s327.photobucket.com/user/Bimdapogs/media/Merlin%20Extralight/20160714_182602.jpg.html)

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k475/Bimdapogs/Merlin%20Extralight/20160714_182650.jpg (http://s327.photobucket.com/user/Bimdapogs/media/Merlin%20Extralight/20160714_182650.jpg.html)

[cadence90]

http://i.imgur.com/OyPeYrU.gif

[pbarry]

Nice work! Don't forget to wrap cup threads with three layers of Teflon plumbers tape, then apply copper anti-seize to threads before installation.

[ericssonboi]

Nice work! Don't forget to wrap cup threads with three layers of Teflon plumbers tape, then apply copper anti-seize to threads before installation.

This. I also use cooper anti-seize from the local automotive section

[Cicli]

This. I also use cooper anti-seize from the local automotive section

And pull it anually, clean retape and antiseize.

[Louis]

And pull it anually, clean retape and antiseize.

That IMO is going too far. But if you have nothing better to do...

[Cicli]

That IMO is going too far. But if you have nothing better to do...

Maybe but............. There is the other extreme as well.

[bikinchris]

Good for you! I've never had the Record BB cup splines hold up when frozen in the frame. I have some good cups like those in a box somewhere from a take off bb that had some bad bearings. At least I think they are the same. That should be a 102mm bb.

[ericssonboi]

I've also found that some Ti frames don't have drain holes.. this adds to potential seizing of the bb

[oldpotatoe]

That IMO is going too far. But if you have nothing better to do...

I don't think a once a year to pull BB and seat post(and stem if quill) on ANY bicycle is a bad idea. Bonded seat posts and BBs on a carbon bike may mean it's a wind chime. I broke a titanium and aluminum shell free from 2 carbon frames..and the BB wasn't even stuck(a Colnago C-40 and Scott)..

For right above..get that drill out for any frame that doesn't have a drain hole..even simple carbon.

[Bim]

Yes sir, anti-seize always! The threads on this frame didn't feel loose though, so I didn't use Teflon tape. Even my previous Extralight didn't need it.


Nice work! Don't forget to wrap cup threads with three layers of Teflon plumbers tape, then apply copper anti-seize to threads before installation.