Now that's a lotta carbon (tandem)

[54ny77]

Saw this over on WW forum.

Pretty cool. I would think that's gotta be monstrously stiff, but maybe not.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1561/25857525596_18514299f3_c.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1582/26522259305_b424d08831_z.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1554/26496324816_cdcc9c3954_z.jpg

[ultraman6970]

Thats a nice bike :)

[Louis]

Nice, but it reminds me of this:

http://www.atlaso.com/images/bridge.jpg

[christian]

They have failed to account for a kidback attachment!

[happycampyer]

The model name should be Red October.

[Louis]

The model name should be Red October.

I don't see the doors for the caterpillar drive.

[CampyorBust]

So um does one need a simian stoker? Ya know to maneuver way their way through the tubular labyrinth to the precious water bottles in the center triangle. Frame integrated water reservoirs and some straw suckers ima tellin’ ya, its the way of the future.

[Satellite]

The first photo instantly reminded me of the Titanic Sinking.

Looks amazing and expensive. I would still be the only one pedaling just like when I ride with my wife now on single framed bicycles. I want to go fast and she wants to look at the trees and what NOT.

[bikinchris]

The first photo instantly reminded me of the Titanic Sinking.

Looks amazing and expensive. I would still be the only one pedaling just like when I ride with my wife now on single framed bicycles. I want to go fast and she wants to look at the trees and what NOT.

That exactly why my wife and I ride tandem at big events. She can look all she wants and I can pedal.

[oldpotatoe]

Don't these guys read the cycling tabloids?:p

[pdmtong]

Don't these guys read the cycling tabloids?:p

discs are a game changer for tandems, for dirt obviously but also for road.

the designer was clearly going for a WW build.

[carpediemracing]

This makes me want to build a carbon frame.

[Louis]

This makes me want to build a carbon frame.

$4.38 / ft^2

https://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotchprint-Carbon-Fiber-Vinyl/dp/B0058DIDTY

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61P4I3RfJ-L._SL1000_.jpg

[zap]

discs are a game changer for tandems, for dirt obviously but also for road.

the designer was clearly going for a WW build.

If I'm not mistaken, this frame is used for time trials so rim brakes it is.

Tandems with disc brakes on hilly rides improves safety. No heat buildup in rims to worry about.

[cmbicycles]

I don't see the doors for the caterpillar drive.
The "caterpillar drive" gets hidden inconspicuously in the seat tube on bikes... at least that is the prevailing thought. ;)

[54ny77]

tandem would be a great platform to stick an e-motor (or whatever it's called--the worm drive thing that seems to be making the rounds on the interweb).

[marciero]

If I'm not mistaken, this frame is used for time trials so rim brakes it is.

Tandems with disc brakes on hilly rides improves safety. No heat buildup in rims to worry about.


Not to steer this thread off course, but ...
It seems that heat dissipation is the main issue with tandem brakes, both rim and disc. With discs you have the possibility of overheating the rotors and melting caliper parts. Plenty of stories on this. I recently overheated 203 mm rotors on a tandem on a long steep dirt descent, though it was not catastrophic-just some chatter and disc discoloration (and also a rather alarmed stoker)

Regarding stopping power and modulation, I would say the mini-v brakes on my rim brake tandem are about equal or even superior to the Spyres on my disc brake tandem. Have not tested those on 10+ percent gradients though. Maybe you have to go full hydro to get the "game changer" performance pdmtong mentions.

[tigoat]

Did you have a permission from the owner to post these photos here?

[Blown Reek]

Did you have a permission from the owner to post these photos here?

Feel free to contact them regarding the copyright claim, good citizen.

[54ny77]

If you want to reach out to them to ask if it's ok to post a photo of their bike on an internet bike forum, that'd be great, thanks.

While you're at it, there's probably at least several hundred thousand or more photos and videos posted by members on this forum that could use that same level of permission-seeking.

:rolleyes:

Did you have a permission from the owner to post these photos here?

[pdmtong]

Regarding stopping power and modulation, I would say the mini-v brakes on my rim brake tandem are about equal or even superior to the Spyres on my disc brake tandem. Have not tested those on 10+ percent gradients though. Maybe you have to go full hydro to get the "game changer" performance pdmtong mentions.

my reference is a full-suspension mtb tandem so have not tested brakes on lengthy multi-mile downhill road descents. the six piston 203/185 hope hydro setup we run lets me go down a 15-20% with one finger control instead of having my forearms blown out from trying to slow with canti or V-brakes.

yes, the tire contact patch matters too, but at least the freight train is under control and I am not dancing near the edge of the control envelope.

[jruhlen1980]

Apparently the new hubbalubbahabaubah or whatever from Riv will have a rear disc, front rim brake setup, because of what Santana says: http://santanatandem.com/Techno/UnderstandingBraking.html

[bfd]

Not to steer this thread off course, but ...
It seems that heat dissipation is the main issue with tandem brakes, both rim and disc. With discs you have the possibility of overheating the rotors and melting caliper parts. Plenty of stories on this. I recently overheated 203 mm rotors on a tandem on a long steep dirt descent, though it was not catastrophic-just some chatter and disc discoloration (and also a rather alarmed stoker)

Regarding stopping power and modulation, I would say the mini-v brakes on my rim brake tandem are about equal or even superior to the Spyres on my disc brake tandem. Have not tested those on 10+ percent gradients though. Maybe you have to go full hydro to get the "game changer" performance pdmtong mentions.

If you believe Santana, they support your position that mini-v brakes are the best for tandems:

http://santanatandems.com/Techno/BrakePower.html

I'm surprised nobody mentioned weight?! Besides looking absolutely ghastly, it also looks heavy?! Anybody know what the frame weighs? It definitely couldn't be as light as a calfee tandem which supposedly weighs in at 20.5lbs complete:

http://calfeedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Calfee-Dragonfly-20.5-Pound-Tandem-Angle.jpg

[Satellite]

Stop it you guys, now your making me want a Tandem. That Calfee is hubba hubba. Throw some S&S Couplers on there and bam that's my tandem. Oh and the electric motors in the seat tubes.

[zap]

edit


Regarding stopping power and modulation, I would say the mini-v brakes on my rim brake tandem are about equal or even superior to the Spyres on my disc brake tandem. Have not tested those on 10+ percent gradients though. Maybe you have to go full hydro to get the "game changer" performance pdmtong mentions.

I agree rim brakes are more powerful than discs. I have yet to test a disc equipped bike (cable or hydro,single or tandem) that betters rim brakes.

We have 2 tandems, one with rim brakes the other discs. Ridden both down many 18% grades with lots of switchbacks. Some descents were 10 miles long. The problem with rim braking is that no matter how careful you are with alternating front/rear brakes, the rims get awfully hot. This heat puts a lot of stress on inner tubes and pressure increases quite a bit. We had 2 blowouts (over a 20 year period) on our rim brake equipped tandem with one resulting in a crash.

Our travel tandem has 203 ICE discs.......would suck if we crashed and both injured if we were oversea's. It is heavier, it is slower, bit more complicated (thanks to the discs) and does not brake as well (but certainly well enough-experienced cyclists adjust) but yet it is safer because of the disc brakes. I have yet to melt any disc parts nor suffered fade. No blowouts.

[pdmtong]

If you believe Santana, they support your position that mini-v brakes are the best for tandems
for all the great evangelism bill mc has done to enthuse the tandem market, i think santana has lost their way.

[eBAUMANN]

light/stiff/fast enough to set a national record... (https://www.instagram.com/p/BHUW-qMDXMI/?taken-by=filament_by_craddock)

Its built for TT's...weight and stopping are not really priorities...only speed/aero.

[MaraudingWalrus]

we had a couple roll through with a crazy tandem of theirs. Thing was 22 lbs with either set of their training wheels, where they'd choose between American Classic Aero420s or Zipp 404s. I never did hear what their race wheels were, or what the weight in race setup would be.

Magnesium frame, Enve fork, carbon everything else, belt drive captain to stoker, ultegra di2 long cage before that was a "thing."

I think the frame was a Paketa?



the frame in question here looks sweet, though!

[Tandem Rider]

we had a couple roll through with a crazy tandem of theirs. Thing was 22 lbs with either set of their training wheels, where they'd choose between American Classic Aero420s or Zipp 404s. I never did hear what their race wheels were, or what the weight in race setup would be.

Magnesium frame, Enve fork, carbon everything else, belt drive captain to stoker, ultegra di2 long cage before that was a "thing."

I think the frame was a Paketa?



the frame in question here looks sweet, though!

We have a Paketa with Ultegra/DuraAce mechanical instead of carbon bits. Goes about 24-25 with a real world training setup, a little less in roadrace trim by losing the pump, tubes, etc. and lighter wheels.

It's about 11 pounds lighter than our steel Co-Motion with a Wound Up fork.

I am having a serious case of bike lust with the TT tandem f/f posted above, all sorts of ideas about new shirts... That thing just looks fast on the monitor.

[Satellite]

Did this one ever happen?

[54ny77]

back when i was putting together my tandem (which we never ride, but it makes for a great basement laundry hangar....), i spent a lot of time on a tandem forum to learn as much as possible, and exchanged messages a bunch with a bay area, calif guy who had a calfee just like that. wonder if that's his. very nice gent, told me lots of good info. it was one of calfee's first super swank lightweight tandems, custom paint, totally over the top gorgeous. it was their show bike for awhile too.

my dream tandem would be a calfee like that with a da vinci drive system, plus all di2 or even the new sram wireless. that would be a fun build. and probably run 25 grand.....ouch!

If you believe Santana, they support your position that mini-v brakes are the best for tandems:

http://santanatandems.com/Techno/BrakePower.html

I'm surprised nobody mentioned weight?! Besides looking absolutely ghastly, it also looks heavy?! Anybody know what the frame weighs? It definitely couldn't be as light as a calfee tandem which supposedly weighs in at 20.5lbs complete:

http://calfeedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Calfee-Dragonfly-20.5-Pound-Tandem-Angle.jpg

[Ti Designs]

my dream tandem would be a calfee like that with a da vinci drive system

Does anyone who rides a tandem a lot like the Da Vinci system?

[marciero]

Does anyone who rides a tandem a lot like the Da Vinci system?

Is that the one with independent pedaling? My guess is that mostly casual riders who would prefer this. In my mind would be out of place on the Calfee. Less eefficient, heavier. I cant imagine how out-of-the-saddle efforts would work.
BTW I saw my first Calfee in the flesh a couple of weeks ago at Belmont Cycles in Belmont Mass. Was used; complete bike. Yes, it was very nice.

[Tandem Rider]

Does anyone who rides a tandem a lot like the Da Vinci system?

Not that I know of.

We can't even stand out of phase cranks. We tried it once about 25 years ago at the urging of someone, stopped 30 minutes into the ride and I fixed that mistake. :rolleyes:

[Tandem Rider]

Did this one ever happen?

No it didn't happen. According to Spesh it was just a mockup to try out visuals. I tried to get it just before we bought the Paketa.

[Satellite]

Not that I know of.

We can't even stand out of phase cranks. We tried it once about 25 years ago at the urging of someone, stopped 30 minutes into the ride and I fixed that mistake. :rolleyes:

I dont think I would want them either I want my wife to pedal can't think of a better way to make that happen then to have direct drive.

Awe you guys are making me think about Tandems again. I know Kent Eriksen was build some maybe I will reach out to him and see what he is up to in the upcoming months?

[oldfatslow]

My wife and I weigh 310lbs as a team. I don't think the ~2lbs of weight difference between rim brakes and disc brakes would really matter.

I will say that having disc brakes on a tandem makes a great deal of sense. The Spyes on mine with 203mm rotors have great stopping power and modulation and I don't worry about overheating rims (something I've experienced on 10+ mile mountain descent).

[Tandem Rider]

My wife and I weigh 310lbs as a team. I don't think the ~2lbs of weight difference between rim brakes and disc brakes would really matter.

I will say that having disc brakes on a tandem makes a great deal of sense. The Spyes on mine with 203mm rotors have great stopping power and modulation and I don't worry about overheating rims (something I've experienced on 10+ mile mountain descent).

I have no experience with discs on a tandem nor overheating rims, but I will say that the Gates timing belt is a giant leap forward. Saves the weight of 1 1/2 chains and 0 slop in the synchronizing of the cranksets, almost like they are one. No greasy chain is a bonus.

[pdmtong]

I have no experience with discs on a tandem nor overheating rims, but I will say that the Gates timing belt is a giant leap forward. Saves the weight of 1 1/2 chains and 0 slop in the synchronizing of the cranksets, almost like they are one. No greasy chain is a bonus.

I punctured a hole in my finger when i absent minded got it caught between the timing chain and the timing ring. first no blood. in 2 seconds the spurt went 6". total idiot move. had the chain been a belt, no scar there.

belt timing a road tandem would be awesome. seen quite a few here. as well as an electric rear wheel.

[oldfatslow]

I have no experience with discs on a tandem nor overheating rims, but I will say that the Gates timing belt is a giant leap forward. Saves the weight of 1 1/2 chains and 0 slop in the synchronizing of the cranksets, almost like they are one. No greasy chain is a bonus.

Agree completely. Belt drive timing chain is a great opportunity to lose weight and maintenance complexity.

[oldpotatoe]

Agree completely. Belt drive timing chain is a great opportunity to lose weight and maintenance complexity.

Having the (mis)fortune of working on a few tandems as well as some belt 'half bikes', I wonder about the ability to get the belt tension 'proper', as in, really tight. Tough enough with a chain.

[Blown Reek]

Proper belt tension is not "really tight"- it's actually not that tight at all. Gates has a tool that's quite rudimentary that's used to set the belt tension. Much better design than a chain drive in this application.

[oldpotatoe]

Proper belt tension is not "really tight"- it's actually not that tight at all. Gates has a tool that's quite rudimentary that's used to set the belt tension. Much better design than a chain drive in this application.

Well...some early hubs had their bearings toasted by belt drive because the belt was pretty dern tight. I had the tool in the shop and I guess 'tight' is subjective but..to me it's 'TIGHT'.

[zap]

Agree completely. Belt drive timing chain is a great opportunity to lose weight and maintenance complexity.

Timing chain is not difficult to maintain. Lube when needed, adjust tension (@high spot) when needed and replace every 15,000 miles or so.

Belt drive systems initially had some problems staying in place but that has been resolved. They are lighter and cleaner.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Huge proponent of belt drive. But maybe I'm a bit biased.


The gates tool and their app both work well for tension.

[marciero]

Had considered belt drive as possible upgrade to my "project" tandem.
Alignment is critical. Some bikes are easier to deal with in this regard than others, those with sliding BB eccentric can be adjusted infinitessimally, while those with, say BB30/FSA, require spacers and could only be adjusted incrementally.

There are some benefits to belt, as has been pointed out, but a chain is at least as, and probably more, efficient.

[oldfatslow]

Timing chain is not difficult to maintain. Lube when needed, adjust tension (@high spot) when needed and replace every 15,000 miles or so.

Belt drive systems initially had some problems staying in place but that has been resolved. They are lighter and cleaner.

Having a lube/grease free timing chain is an advantage (says guy who currently owns 2 tandems and has owned 5 of which none had Gates belt drive timing chains). :)