Record hub 8 to 10s conversion vs. re-lacing

[Gsinill]

I have two C-Record wheelsets, one is the original 8s the other one has been converted to 10s by one of the previous owners.
The 8s rims have serial numbers that match a frame so I want to keep them together, but I want to convert them to 10s for this particular frame.

This said, I have 2 options:


Swap the hubs, which means de-lacing and re-lacing 2 wheels
Swap the axles and what ever else is involved in converting 8s to 10s

Built several wheels in the past, so option #1 is a no brainer but takes time.
I never opened a C-Record hub, as a matter of fact, never any hub, meaning I have no idea what's involved.
Did some googling but didn't find any real instructions.

How complicated is converting the hubs from 8 to 10s?
Easier to just re-lace 2 wheels?

Thanks,
GS

[oldpotatoe]

I have two C-Record wheelsets, one is the original 8s the other one has been converted to 10s by one of the previous owners.
The 8s rims have serial numbers that match a frame so I want to keep them together, but I want to convert them to 10s for this particular frame.

This said, I have 2 options:


Swap the hubs, which means de-lacing and re-lacing 2 wheels
Swap the axles and what ever else is involved in converting 8s to 10s

Built several wheels in the past, so option #1 is a no brainer but takes time.
I never opened a C-Record hub, as a matter of fact, never any hub, meaning I have no idea what's involved.
Did some googling but didn't find any real instructions.

How complicated is converting the hubs from 8 to 10s?
Easier to just re-lace 2 wheels?

Thanks,
GS

8s rear hub meaning 8s cassette? And steel or titanium axle? 9s(and then 10s) FH bodies only made for about 2 years, 1997 and partially into 1998. Plug and play, black steel FH body off, new aluminum 9s(and 10s) FH body on. Take off RH axle end, a couple of spacers, FH body off, watch for the pawls and springs that will bounce out. There is a tool to hold springs/pawls in, FH body back on, spacers, axle end(wee set screw in axle end, BTW-1mm..).

BUT this FH body is tough to find is all. 1998/9 hubs went to OS aluminum axles, different FH bodies, etc.

[Gsinill]

8s rear hub meaning 8s cassette? And steel or titanium axle? 9s(and then 10s) FH bodies only made for about 2 years, 1997 and partially into 1998. Plug and play, black steel FH body off, new aluminum 9s(and 10s) FH body on. Take off RH axle end, a couple of spacers, FH body off, watch for the pawls and springs that will bounce out. There is a tool to hold springs/pawls in, FH body back on, spacers, axle end(wee set screw in axle end, BTW-1mm..).

BUT this FH body is tough to find is all. 1998/9 hubs went to OS aluminum axles, different FH bodies, etc.

Thanks Peter!
Yes, 8s cassette, no idea whether the axle is steel or titanium.
I am a little confused though since while googling I found a lot of references to replace the axle with a Mirage or Veloce one. You say plug'n play though.
Is that because the hub is already for an 8s cassette and axle swap only applies to older hubs?

[El Chaba]

Note for emphasis...As Peter wrote, those freehub bodies are pretty hard to find at this point.

[Gsinill]

Note for emphasis...As Peter wrote, those freehub bodies are pretty hard to find at this point.

I already have one on the 2nd set of wheels, just swapping it from one to the other.

[Mark McM]

Thanks Peter!
Yes, 8s cassette, no idea whether the axle is steel or titanium.
I am a little confused though since while googling I found a lot of references to replace the axle with a Mirage or Veloce one. You say plug'n play though.
Is that because the hub is already for an 8s cassette and axle swap only applies to older hubs?

Well, almost plug and play. There are two versions of the 8spd axles - a long shouldered version and a short shouldered version. This meant there are also two freehub bodies with different bearing placements to match the shoulder location. So if the original freehub body has one shoulder length, and the replacement freehub body has the other shoulder length, you'll need to also replace the axle to match the shoulder length of the new freehub body.

These days it will be very difficult to source a new 9/10spd freehub body that fits on an 8spd hub. Instead, you may need take it from a donor hub. In which case, if the new freehub body uses a different shoulder length, you may need to swap both the freehub body and the axle from the donor hub.

Determining whether the axle is steel or titanium is easy - all steel axles are black, and magnets will stick to them; all titanium axles are a raw 'silver' metallic color, and magnets won't stick to them.

[oliver1850]

Ti axle says Campagnolo on the drive side end.

You can use a Mirage 9 freehub body - at least I've yet to encounter an 8 speed hub it wouldn't work on. All it takes is a custom spacer that goes on the axle before installing the FHB. On some hubs one of the axle spacers from the Mirage will work.

[Hindmost]

The 8s rims have serial numbers that match a frame..

Is this a thing? I am simply curious, I haven't heard of this before. I certainly understand desire to maintain originalness.

[Ralph]

I wonder if the free hub body from the last generation Centaur hubs would work....they were the ones Taiwan sourced with steel axles and sealed bearings.

[Gsinill]

Well, almost plug and play. There are two versions of the 8spd axles - a long shouldered version and a short shouldered version. This meant there are also two freehub bodies with different bearing placements to match the shoulder location. So if the original freehub body has one shoulder length, and the replacement freehub body has the other shoulder length, you'll need to also replace the axle to match the shoulder length of the new freehub body.

These days it will be very difficult to source a new 9/10spd freehub body that fits on an 8spd hub. Instead, you may need take it from a donor hub. In which case, if the new freehub body uses a different shoulder length, you may need to swap both the freehub body and the axle from the donor hub.

Determining whether the axle is steel or titanium is easy - all steel axles are black, and magnets will stick to them; all titanium axles are a raw 'silver' metallic color, and magnets won't stick to them.

Thanks, that helps.
Not home at the moment but definitely steel axle since it is black.

[oliver1850]

I wonder if the free hub body from the last generation Centaur hubs would work....they were the ones Taiwan sourced with steel axles and sealed bearings.

It might, as it uses the same axle as the Mirage 9. I think the one from Khamsin and Scirrocco wheels could probably be made to work as well. They all use the FH-SC015 freehub. I suspect it would need a different spacer than the Mirage FHB, but I haven't tried using one.

[Gsinill]

Is this a thing? I am simply curious, I haven't heard of this before. I certainly understand desire to maintain originalness.

Yep, Richard Sachs Sport Touring sold by Wheelsmith, Palo Alto back in the days.
WS serial#s not RS but nevertheless...

BTW, the bike will be listed in the Classified section soon ;)

[Hindmost]

Yep, Richard Sachs Sport Touring sold by Wheelsmith, Palo Alto back in the days.
WS serial#s not RS but nevertheless...

BTW, the bike will be listed in the Classified section soon ;)

Thanks for clarifying. Small world, Ric and Jon were my LBS back then.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks Peter!
Yes, 8s cassette, no idea whether the axle is steel or titanium.
I am a little confused though since while googling I found a lot of references to replace the axle with a Mirage or Veloce one. You say plug'n play though.
Is that because the hub is already for an 8s cassette and axle swap only applies to older hubs?

Athena and below 9s FH different than Record and Chorus. You can use a Athena/Veloce/Mirge but need the axle swap also.

[oliver1850]

Here's a pic of a Record Ti 8 hub converted to 9/10/11 with a 2005 Mirage FHB (FH-MI215), and one showing the lettering on the end of the Ti axle.

[Joxster]

I'm confused??? Doesn't Campagnolo 8 also take 9,10 and 11 without any fannying about. I thought it was the first gen cassettes that had a step up but that was 7spd

[oliver1850]

No, the 8 speed hubs won't take 9/10/11 cogs.

Here's a pic of an 8 cog on top of a 10. The major diameter of the freehub body is about the same, but the splines are deeper on the 9/10/11 cogs. You might be able to file 9/10/11 cogs and get them on the 8 speed body, but there wouldn't be much contact area to drive, as there are only 4 splines vs. the 8 of 8 speed cogs. The other issue would be the width of the FHB, as the 8 speed is about 1.1 mm narrower.

[Gsinill]

Thanks everybody!

Well, looks like I was lucky since I could simply swap the FH bodies without any problems
2 questions: what determines the numbers of washers?
One of them had 3 (2x shiny silver ones and a black split lock washer in between) whereas the other only had 2 (silver and split lock).
And finally, on the other hub, the 9s FH does not spin as freely as before, there is definitely some resistance now even if I don't tighten the nut.
Could it be that there is a slight difference in the hub shell or in what looked like an o-ring on the FH?

Here are the 2 hubs for comparison after the conversion:
https://s32.postimg.org/93apu3j2t/IMG_2541.jpg

[wallymann]

Well, looks like I was lucky since I could simply swap the FH bodies without any problems

good for you!

fwiw...contrary to the subject of this thread, you're working with "record" freehubs, not "c-record" -- the latter were only ever available in 126mm threaded freewheel config.

also note the shaped metal dustcap on the non-drive side, extending almost to the dropout.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/HwUAAOSwWTRW0z~E/$_57.JPG

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks everybody!

Well, looks like I was lucky since I could simply swap the FH bodies without any problems
2 questions: what determines the numbers of washers?
One of them had 3 (2x shiny silver ones and a black split lock washer in between) whereas the other only had 2 (silver and split lock).
And finally, on the other hub, the 9s FH does not spin as freely as before, there is definitely some resistance now even if I don't tighten the nut.
Could it be that there is a slight difference in the hub shell or in what looked like an o-ring on the FH?

Here are the 2 hubs for comparison after the conversion:
https://s32.postimg.org/93apu3j2t/IMG_2541.jpg

I'll bet you trapped the o ring at the base of the FH between body and hub shell. Use 3 on aluminum FH body. 6ft-lbs to tighten the nut, not very tight and remember to tighten the set screw.

[Gsinill]

...fwiw...contrary to the subject of this thread, you're working with "record" freehubs, not "c-record" -- the latter were only ever available in 126mm threaded freewheel config...[/IMG]

oops, thanks for letting me know, will update the title.

[Look585]

good for you!

fwiw...contrary to the subject of this thread, you're working with "record" freehubs, not "c-record" -- the latter were only ever available in 126mm threaded freewheel config.

also note the shaped metal dustcap on the non-drive side, extending almost to the dropout.




The 1994 Campy Catalogue and Parts Diagrams show what is clearly a C-Record Front hub on the same page as a Rear Freehub. One could infer they are the same group and both "C-Record"... I think the "C-Record" moniker was unofficial anyway.

[wallymann]

The 1994 Campy Catalogue and Parts Diagrams show what is clearly a C-Record Front hub on the same page as a Rear Freehub. One could infer they are the same group and both "C-Record"... I think the "C-Record" moniker was unofficial anyway.



yabbut both hubs are labeled "RECORD" in the upper-left corners of the parts diagram you posted...campy themselves called it "RECORD" in the 1994 catalog you posted!

C-Record was short for Corsa Record, and it was pretty official based on this campagnolo catalog:

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/560f1941e4b0e75bc493a695/t/560f1e06e4b0eb177e2d986a/1443834041537/Details.jpg