OT: Acoustic Guitar

[p nut]

I've had my $100 guitar (don't even remember the brand) for 16 years now. Bought it at a music store, and have been happily playing on it. I'm thinking of giving it to a neighborhood kid and getting a new one. The only problem is, I have no idea what to get.

I'm just a casual player, with the worst voice west of Mississippi (maybe east, too). I normally like to play for my kids, nursery rhymes and such. In the evenings when no one's around, I like to pretend I'm John Fahey.

I guess what I'm looking for is moving from this "department store" Next to a decent........Trek? I don't know how much to devote to this, but off the top of my head, I'm wondering what $500 would get me. I'm not opposed to spending more, as this may be my last guitar purchase. But I don't need a "Pegoretti", either.

Any suggestions for a decent guitar? A friend of mine had an Ovation growing up. Not sure if that round, plastic back did anything, but it sounded nice.

Thanks for any input.

[Sierra]

You say, "acoustic." What does that mean to you--steel string; nylon string?

If nylon, you can get a really nice Cordoba or Alhambra guitar for around $700 or so.

Suggestions:

Los Angeles Classical Guitars: www.lacg.net
Ramon Amira Guitars: www.ramonamiraguitars

Cannot go wrong with either. These are both top-notch purveyors of acoustic/classical/nylon-string guitars.

[nate2351]

You can get into Martins for around $700. Same thing for nice Gibsons, Fenders, or Takamine. I'm assuming steel strings?

[jtbadge]

Taylor 200 series are well built, consistent, and playable. I have had one in the past and would buy again.

[cmbicycles]

Just skip the "Trek" and go get an Olson guitar. ;)
You should be able to find a decent solid wood guitar in your price range, you need to just go play a bunch, wait...repeat, and then go with your ear and fingers tell you.
I have a nice sounding, cheap concert body Yamaha with a solid top. It is my school/teaching guitar so I don't worry about it getting damaged/dinged.
I have an Alvarez Yairi dy74c dreadnought that has as nice a sound as many Taylor/Martin guitars I have played, is very underrated/unknown by many and can be found in your budget. I also have a Breedlove C5, and that one cured my guitar lust for the last 20 years. Any time I play another high end guitar store acoustic, I like it even more.

[Lanternrouge]

Although I don't know anything about guitars, you may also want to check out Kiesel Guitars. They are local to me and I ride with one of the guys there who has more guitars than pretty much any of us have bikes, though he is a guitarist by profession so he has that excuse.

[schwa86]

When facing this same situation (more or less) I brought my guitar-obsessed cycling buddy to the store and let him try them all out. When he narrowed to 2-3 in my price range, I chose the one I liked best. It worked out well.

[txcid05]

For an everyday instrument, I've got a Baby Taylor, and for my fancy fiddle, I've got a Gibson Country and Western. Gibson makes a good acoustic, especially their Custom Shop guitars. :beer:

[Steve in SLO]

Would suggest that you go to a large music store and try as many as you can. First off, find the body style you like whether it be jumbo, dreadnaut, OM or other. One will feel most comfortable to you. If you plan on playing a lot that is a big deal.
Once you have decided what body style you like, play a number of guitars both expensive and cheap and find something who's sound you like. I would suggest you take a pick, and do some fingerstyle, finger strumming, flatpicking, and pick strumming. Some guitars can sound wonderful in one of these disciplines and horrible in another.
Understand that this next guitar won't be your last, so don't stress about finding the "perfect" guitar. Few of us ever do.
Would suggest that you keep it under $1000 unless you're absolutely sure you found the perfect guitar and are committed in the long run. There are lots of guitars in this price range, both new and used, that will do you well. I own a few high-end Martins and a Santa Cruz, but still enjoy playing my Recording King parlor and OO, both of which I paid less than $500 for.
Whatever you decide on, have fun, because that's the endpoint.

[p nut]

Thanks for all the inputs. What I'm after is just a regular steel (6) string guitar. Good info on the makes--I'll take a trip to a local shop to demo a few.

Again, appreciate all of the info.

[batman1425]

When I played regularly, I really enjoyed the Alvarez I had. They called it the "folk" body - which is essentially a grand auditorium cutaway. Smaller body than the traditional dreadnought which was more comfortable for me. Mine was a Koa wood top and sides, and had a piezo pickup for acoustic electric options. I think I paid around $400 for it. Played as good or better than most of the entry level Martin/Taylor instruments I tested out.

I also tried a few mid level Martins, a mid/upper end Takamine and a super high end Taylor that happened to be in the shop. Yep, there is a noticeable difference between those and my Alvarez, but that difference came with a substantial difference in price, which for my ability level, was not worth the investment.

[benb]

I have a Yamaha dreadnought which was about $300 and gets thrown about on the internet a lot as one of the best cheap buys.

It does sound great, but I barely play (time) so I can't play much at all. The other thing is if I could do it again I would definitely not get a dreadnought. It's huge, I really can't play comfortably unless I stand. (I'm 6'1"). When I first got it I actually hurt my shoulder playing it sitting. It's so big that when I sit the bottom of the guitar is on my leg and it's tall enough I have to stretch my shoulder to get my arm around it. Could be some of that is my shoulders being wacky from too much biking though.:roll eyes:

That said I wouldn't even dream of getting anything fancier for a long long time. I got the guitar after selling my digital piano.. I was way better at piano than I am at guitar, and a $2000 digital piano kind of sounds like crap compared to a $100 acoustic guitar simply because the guitar is real. You get a lot for you money with guitars.

[Bob Ross]

a $2000 digital piano kind of sounds like crap compared to a $100 acoustic guitar simply because the guitar is real.

We can hang.

[AJosiahK]

All mentioned above are nice, I own / have owned several Martins and have played many.

You can get similar quality and sound in an Alvarez too, and they are bit more affordable

[echelon_john]

Anybody put their hands on a Seagull S6? Interested in it based on the reviews and the fact that it's made in Canuckistan.

[redir]

I've been building and repairing guitars for 25 years now so take this recommendation with a grain of salt ;)

For a good quality cheap guitar for what you seem to be looking to do I would suggest you look at what Yamaha has to offer. They win the best bang for the buck award in my book and Yamaha is the brand of guitar I see least come through my shop.

Then some day talk to me when your budget is closer to $2k :)

[svelocity]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with the Yamaha recommendation too. Seagull also has some really nice budget range guitars.

Best bang for your buck, you can't beat the Yamaha FG700s guitars. You can find these aplenty on Craigslist. Dreadnought, Sitka spruce top, with laminated back and sides (not sure what wood they are using here). Nicely manufactured and to my ears sound just fine.

I have a Yamaha LL6 which is the next step up. Slightly smaller body (auditorium vs Dread), with Engelmann Spruce top, still laminated back and sides but now they are using more valuable tone woods like Rosewood or Mahogany. They are also adding a bit more frills like fancier binding, inlays, and nicer tuners. It doesn't do much for the sound but it sure looks nice and a nice looking guitar is also the one you like to play! Plus this also has a wider nut/neck (this is another consideration but not a biggie).

If you want to stretch that budget a bit more the Taylor 100 and 200 series feel real nice under my arm. Martins are sweet too! I see a rabbit hole...:help:

The guitar that gets played the most is the guitar that's out in the stand and not in the case. That's why I'm recommending a laminate guitar vs a solid wood guitar. Especially if you have kids running around. They are a bit tougher, can take a knock or two, and don't need to be babied like solid wood guitars (which usually need to be stored in a case with humidity control).

Go to the store, bring a pick (if that's what you use) and just go play a bunch. See what feels good and sounds good. That's the most important thing.

Anyhow, these are my thoughts and I hope it helps! Cheers!

[OldCrank]

I'm a Gibson fan. But the stratospheric prices have kept me away. Tried some used Epiphones years ago, but ended up really impressed with some of the Washburns.
Anybody play one?

[MattTuck]

There is a local store that sells vintage and used guitars. I have been in a few times, as I have an urge to learn how to play, and just talking to the guy, it seems that you can get some decent quality (better than entry level) guitars for short money if you're willing to go used.

He is also a Washburn dealer, and those sounded nice, but I am definitely no expert.

[p nut]

So Yamaha and Alvarez are two brands I'll look out for. Got it.

redir - man, you're dipping into my Kirk/Eriksen fund! :) Please post some pictures of your guitars, if you don't mind.

[whateveronfire]

I had a Simon and Patrick which is made by Godin (who also own Seagull) which I liked. I switched to a Taylor 214. I love the Taylor: steel string style neck, nylon strings.

I agree Yamaha makes great guitars for the money. Ditto Godin and subsidiaries. I'd definitely look at some of Godin's lines besides Seagulls. They're also Canadian made and can often be had for decent deals. (Art and Lutherie is one of the others).

I can't recommend Taylor highly enough, though.

[dnades]

The ovations are relatively cheap secondhand and have a really nice sound. They've done some pretty cool stuff. Definitely pick one up in a shop and see if it suits your style of playing. The plastic back is a little weird to get used to but the sound is very good. Surprisingly good.

[OtayBW]

I'm a tone nut. Play a lot and buy what sings to you. I prefer vintage instruments myself (and spend accordingly), but I would suggest purchasing what speaks to you. Spend some money to get it set up the way you like (or do it yourself). You can't quantify this. You'll know it when you find it. :beer:

[Louis]

Somewhat OT, but not really - I love this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c17v-DS_BU

[weehastogopee]

Good advice here!

Namely just to try a lot of them, and that Yamaha probably makes some of the best cheap guitars out there.

I bought my guitar for right under 500 used (but was in pretty much new condition when I got it)

It is an Epiphone Masterbilt AJ500R. If you can find one used, definitely check it out! It is all solid wood, and sounds great! Unfortunately only two models remain in epiphone's masterbilt line...and they both have pickups in it, which might not be what you need.

[unterhausen]

my cheap guitar cost me $200 in '84 and has a solid spruce top, solid Indian Rosewood body. Blows away my '70s Gibson, which was horrible.
They went through some really bad years, so if you are buying used, do some research. Horrible, so horrible they wouldn't warranty the things.
The top of the Gibson exploded, that's why I got the cheap guitar. I replaced it a long time ago, but never finished reassembling the guitar. It's right near the top of my to-do list.

[IJWS]

I did this last year with a very similar price range. I got close but I definitely took it a little too seriously. I ended up with an Epiphone dr500p. P for pine. It's a cool little guitar that I bought new old stock. Because it was new, I played the sh*t out of it and loved it. In your price range, there are a lot of good guitars and an exponential number of opinions about which one is best. With my experience still in the rear-view mirror I would say a few things.

1. Definitely go play a lot of guitars and enjoy the hunt. A new (or new to you) guitar is a treat and shouldn't be approached like shopping for a vacuum cleaner. Go play a lot of guitars with no pressure on price/is this the one etc.. and you will get a really good idea of what you like. Guitar megastores like guitar center et al, are great for this type of mission and you won't be stepping on anyone's toes if you want to touch every guitar in the place.

2. CRAIGSLIST. It's not really an all caps level suggestion but I would highly recommend going used in your price range. Guitars are pretty durable and the technology doesn't change every few years so they are great candidates for a used product. Think about getting a $500 new guitar or a $1,000 used guitar for $500 in your price range, the differences are noticeable. Plus, after step 1, you'll know what you like and its fun to see what's on the market so to speak. If you find something that could be a go, go play it and make sure your ears and hands agree with your eyes.

3. Fast and dirty: The Yamaha guitars are a good deal and even better when you find a used one. If I had another $500, I would be searching craigslist for a used Taylor...on that note, pm me if you're interested in a dr500p :banana:

4. Have fun and let us know what you ended up with!

[Sierra]

my cheap guitar cost me $200 in '84 and has a solid spruce top, solid Indian Rosewood body. Blows away my '70s Gibson, which was horrible.
They went through some really bad years, so if you are buying used, do some research. Horrible, so horrible they wouldn't warranty the things.
The top of the Gibson exploded, that's why I got the cheap guitar. I replaced it a long time ago, but never finished reassembling the guitar. It's right near the top of my to-do list.

Not surprising. There is not a whole lot of fine, instrument building wood left in the world. Back then, even mediocre luthiers had access to quality wood that today's best luthiers can only dream of accessing.

[redir]

So Yamaha and Alvarez are two brands I'll look out for. Got it.

redir - man, you're dipping into my Kirk/Eriksen fund! :) Please post some pictures of your guitars, if you don't mind.

As mentioned the Godin guitars seem to be pretty good to IMO.

I've found a nitche in building from reclaimed materials. The guitar below was made from materials found entirely from the old barn that it is leaning on. The barn was built in about 1920 on a farm that I lived on for many years. White oak and pine:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9c22b1h1UbA5zDpD2bXV9kJZMc0VRxuCs0gADX-iDbfPGzh7UUXSmUj8FVuXmllw0FAHic1pO02t894MX6mZv4aJT Hq9r15ZFqGT0x8oqpC2pRbFHukPelyoteNtOkoZigu3EgpAgnG 9Oo8Qfen3OGjYJ3N0rGjKxjHolGxOBEogmVcpmaVr-4oJwPWb3OliP2SR-F0YG37o0QnMQwiBIdN2dhJ4RTxVkcotj7VHkG7Wk9uBJhXhPXv-jBPXjq4WW5TmKhyN16G1xmg8uSYV0PqkED-ixs8G9-a6rzYYNzm8KA8LKHMfElElmksh2nY1bhxkq4SuCP0YWzxtqPSf UR2mE9pIcuCdGMNvWwSIzYbCKgyTfUlMBYFuTYkkidmJWi-krj5NBEtWpSXkeKtsJKhwpuHzZ4E5KwqdvZwOecPof0-SQx1Jjfr0SKuIaXZtBFJX_CrqhV-kR-BJGlCk58lRu7_AwkFR77tE9Fjs_tkqbx8ZYFzR6ifnjyEY8NNN oMYf3tEZ-OUHwJ00ga3GJtzRH_TtiLcRWik8m1R4hvmbR3OH48EcIAD-1h7ZRuUkvU1Kn8AFLw0nzTmVO1lVzVkX93grx5Q=w539-h955-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZiKRpFzBrBsHWULbSCPBjxPJHBo8etyH1kdeEhgl7WNyG1KmUr Mj4mHsts_ZiXVcM-sdu41xQ5bT6zA3Ci8QEzZC-3P922MOAnJm6-H_kAHuO58PEX8BJeIM-muAzqFpZv4Zouz3fBftbLHnCEJ5WvCrrOUyTf8quZP8suK7dHH puAtcuNlt1Sk9yWMITbGTiyONGiAj9Pwz7C0ebqhmdqJCZa12l uUDrpy4gWodUPZfYrsshKZiYrRimnhHB_njsaM_rU3NaiTJz7U CHWJnFCn24v0zv203ksQp1HdtXGC8F82_OEU-VI8UAhtJu-YHCWOfaog_Hdk6wg1CBWwfRJeJx5MwJWgDl2gp1DkaV3vL8Inf l2_vbithwKPweJHSXXBCoUE7D4HnOgdj899V5vN8lfI37SB89B FJJ9h0Z9jO1I_s-omDQEt0xG-9XPFUDLpaERLyKyFF4vsKG-FhnXpk8jAJ4wJ0nCMSy_-1olfHtcmuDTPXsgtmBQxP40B55fCdL78rdCBOkmyNU9jhqdUQY h3-FlLPp0wYkcCKl9xgNdgt8it6BKuyX_oFAwRcvA0D5zUkgZZsuA M_nLfUMDWLJPto9lU=w539-h955-no

Full album with construction pics if interested:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOsIAKU9cSFeLjiQHxAqFASqMEsjESmBL3C90ZzP0bq_7 AvVGycvL2XksEjsrd6CA?key=YWFpalhiNS03R2diWGY5dVItT kN2NHdyRC16X29n

But I also like to build with traditional materials like this Honduran Mahogany/Redwood Dreadnought.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1gSgwmpq_RjiURTMiMTNPVfvw8dpdI4n9pvZ1ZWeApBAyukVtv LPM7t3jfMvG10xmC5a0zDAh4u0h7DfugO4VkxqKxpl1DdDUrk5 OrFQcWmRWgNmiMMdeRTduOhDL210SRYqjW9R9mhXD2QVhoKOwN LzNLQTbYcjzIVKvofoHZGgc2YUfhqeg6ZwxTRcUsrFvxAWZFaV HZHqMIb36PHBMZGm0w_RrSjDMCJm27gBtiar1JMd-Ahg-i4tZQah3efhl6FXMWoWS5pWZv4ZfIN29PbsVxm5vV2cp5kUdWm cGgU6rSfsbjIR2KJ4ZWxSNz1zjFa3FvyvAibvjx8C3mB-nJS8u4bGiZTDI-rgSeCk8PeS7R6Qz8ItQzJYuRWkMHTbfi9BSYlketkAKqH9nQNv jNNoE9kGO6sDxq-mG64s2AilKEh03UhZhm2FZdKMVW_cDtofOz38tObV0jPg4APn-uUEwjDzD8oBP4Z73YClc-yVKDAlV5iq26VPQmlduVdLs9sl5MeADSo8ZoTEF2lPeBiLPjXi LLDAtp40vTB7nupHTLqMgBV0J9aUTJBwR7ENZd1BGR08Zh-WgZn4TuW1z2ikdXwqr5bH=w1698-h955-no

Album: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMhhl8EVTqTePumqxbLe4nq_3jmIr1SgFR1ke6OUkau_f-UKcAeM5jAnN3bSbhM7w?key=Z3JPU0xNMm5GU09aeDRENmJzMW JiTlhHYTZwaVNn

[Steve in SLO]

Very nice work! Is that 12 fretter a 0 body size?

[559Rando]

I agree Yamaha makes great guitars for the money. Ditto Godin and subsidiaries. I'd definitely look at some of Godin's lines besides Seagulls. They're also Canadian made and can often be had for decent deals. (Art and Lutherie is one of the others).


+100 for the Godin family of Canadian guitars
+1 for Yamaha; 9 times out of 10, I'd probably take the Seagull or A&L over the Yami

The ovations are relatively cheap secondhand and have a really nice sound.

"Really nice sound" is subjective and a lot of people don't go gaga for Ovations. I had one for a year or two and never played it because as nice as the action was, I did not like the sound or the ergonomics.


I bought my guitar for right under 500 used (but was in pretty much new condition when I got it)

It is an Epiphone Masterbilt AJ500R.

+1 for used
+1 for the Epi Masterbilt series


----
My opinion is:

Guitars to much great extent than bikes vary from one to another, especially acoustic guitars. I'd recommend you play a lot of them. If you're at the store and see a brand X model Y, don't expect another brand X model Y to sound or play identically to it. If you decide to buy the X/Y, play all of them that the store has.

Acoustic guitars get better with age and I'd recommend a good quality older instrument over a new one. Some aspects have improved on new guitars. New tuners are better, intonation is generally better, and consistency is better but it's harder to get the good wood and instrument sounds better as it ages and breaks in.

Definitely look for a solid top.
Try different woods. You might like one wood combination better than another.
When you look at the top, look at the grain pattern. Tightly grained wood sounds better for acoustic tops.

The only guitar I've ever owned for more than 10 years is a 70s Madeira (Japanese made for import by Guild). There aren't a lot of those floating around, but they'd fit in your budget and sound phenominal. Mine also has some very low action.

[redir]

Very nice work! Is that 12 fretter a 0 body size?

Thanks. It's actually a little bit smaller. It's based on a C. Bruno and Company guitar built in 1896 except instead of ladder braced I use a more modern X-brace. A small parlor guitar with a big sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctm3nBTKUyU

[Clydesdale]

The lower end Breedloves (not passports) can be found in that price range and are very nice instruments. I had a Simon & Patrick that seemed like a lot of guitar for the money and a mid range Washburn that I think sounds good though they can be hit and miss.

$500 should get you something you love if you are patient and have a chance to play it first.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Some really nice guitars hold their value and others do not so you can find some decent values buying used. If you have a friend who is a gear head or at least is experienced with acoustics I would ask he/she to accompany you to all the guitar stores in your area and shop together. Buy your friend beers and dinner after. Then go home and enjoy that fantastic playing/sounding $600 guitar you never thought you'd find. My brother-in-law has a Bluegrass brand dreadnaught that is remarkable for the $500-600 price tag. His has a chunk missing out of the headstock so he picked it up for a song.

I have a mid 90s Fender solid top acoustic that plays and sounds really, really great. It's a dreadnaught; don't recall the model number.

I also have an early 2000s Gibson Songwriter Deluxe. I've had several people try to buy it from me for a lot more than I paid, but I hope a grandchild ends up with it. Must be the wood importing shenanigans that happened with Gibson, but I paid about half of the current retail price and these things just get better with age.

If I had a large collection of acoustics I'd diversify, but if I can only have a few I certainly lean toward the classic dreadnaught and round shoulder (J-45) bodies.

[redearedslider5]

I'm of the mind that the best acoustics are either Martin or Taylor. I'm primarily an electric player so I went with Taylor because the necks are somewhat similar to my electric. I ended up with a Taylor GS mini. Five hundred bucks brand new, sounds great, looks great. I chose it because it was a bit on the smaller side so it's nice to keep around the couch to fool around on when I have a minute and it fits under my arm better than a standard dreadnaught which I always found to be huge. Like others have said though, try out a bunch and see what you like. If money was no object, i'd be all over a Martin 000

[OtayBW]

As mentioned the Godin guitars seem to be pretty good to IMO.

I've found a nitche in building from reclaimed materials. The guitar below was made from materials found entirely from the old barn that it is leaning on. The barn was built in about 1920 on a farm that I lived on for many years. White oak and pine:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9c22b1h1UbA5zDpD2bXV9kJZMc0VRxuCs0gADX-iDbfPGzh7UUXSmUj8FVuXmllw0FAHic1pO02t894MX6mZv4aJT Hq9r15ZFqGT0x8oqpC2pRbFHukPelyoteNtOkoZigu3EgpAgnG 9Oo8Qfen3OGjYJ3N0rGjKxjHolGxOBEogmVcpmaVr-4oJwPWb3OliP2SR-F0YG37o0QnMQwiBIdN2dhJ4RTxVkcotj7VHkG7Wk9uBJhXhPXv-jBPXjq4WW5TmKhyN16G1xmg8uSYV0PqkED-ixs8G9-a6rzYYNzm8KA8LKHMfElElmksh2nY1bhxkq4SuCP0YWzxtqPSf UR2mE9pIcuCdGMNvWwSIzYbCKgyTfUlMBYFuTYkkidmJWi-krj5NBEtWpSXkeKtsJKhwpuHzZ4E5KwqdvZwOecPof0-SQx1Jjfr0SKuIaXZtBFJX_CrqhV-kR-BJGlCk58lRu7_AwkFR77tE9Fjs_tkqbx8ZYFzR6ifnjyEY8NNN oMYf3tEZ-OUHwJ00ga3GJtzRH_TtiLcRWik8m1R4hvmbR3OH48EcIAD-1h7ZRuUkvU1Kn8AFLw0nzTmVO1lVzVkX93grx5Q=w539-h955-no

Right. I guess they don't make too many barns in VA from Sitka spruce! Looks like a maple top. How's it sound?

[p nut]

redir's pictures make me want to hold onto the $500 and save up until I can get a barn guitar. What a beaut.

[jimcav]

pass it down to your child when they are older, and have their own kids and want to play the same tunes to theirs...

I had a guild and seagull that were in the 500-sh range, both were nice. As with bikes, my ability will never match the capability of the instrument, but i have a solid walnut breedlove that i love--i love the look of it, it sounds nice, and, like Taylors i tried, the neck fits my smaller (not Trumpish) hands.

if i could have found one, I'd have bought a Taylor Liberty Tree since I actually sat under that tree a few times when i was in college.

[DfCas]

My son played a lot of guitars at the local music store and decided on a Yamaha FG-800 with a solid top. He liked it better than the higher dollar ones he tried.

[enr1co]

I'm of the mind that the best acoustics are either Martin or Taylor. I'm primarily an electric player so I went with Taylor because the necks are somewhat similar to my electric. I ended up with a Taylor GS mini. Five hundred bucks brand new, sounds great, looks great. I chose it because it was a bit on the smaller side so it's nice to keep around the couch to fool around on when I have a minute and it fits under my arm better than a standard dreadnaught which I always found to be huge. Like others have said though, try out a bunch and see what you like. If money was no object, i'd be all over a Martin 000

Went through a period of buying and trying literally hundreds of acoustics, almost every brand, size, tonewoods, production to hand built boutique. After all this, ended up with a Taylor 314C and Mini GS. The Mini GS is a great combination of value, tone and build quality and playability- new for ~$500 or you can pick up used one for ~$350 to 400. If you end up wanting something more high end or fancy, Taylors have retain resale value of all brands if you want to flip it or trade in
As mentioned above, the convenient size allows it be kept around or taken around which leads you to more playing time with it.

[redir]

Right. I guess they don't make too many barns in VA from Sitka spruce! Looks like a maple top. How's it sound?

It's a pine top. I believe that it is Southern Yellow Pine but I have not had it tested. The top is the most critical part in an acoustic guitar and I never would have thought this stuff would have worked out as well as it did. THis guitar was built as part of a contest, which I am proud to say I won second place in. The contest was to build a guitar from materials under the cost of $100 dollars. Everything except the head plate and hardware on the guitar came out of the barn. The top wood has to be cut a certain way. It has to be what they call quarter sawn or vertical grain. When you look at the edge of the board the annular rings (grain lines) look like this, ||||||. If it's cut any other way then you are asking for trouble. I was lucky enough to find that some of the siding on this barn was pine and found some vertical grained stuff.

Check out the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctm3nBTKUyU) I linked to above for the sound, the sound came out surprisingly well. Honestly if this was not part of a contest I never would have considered using SYP for a top. Normally it's heavy and very sappy stuff but I guess being 90 years old through cold winters and hot summers it aged out well.

I also found a few boards of perfectly quartered wood that are about 24in wide. This must have been a huge tree back in the day. I need to get this wood tested. I think it might be Adirondack (REd) Spruce as it has the right color and is incredibly stiff across the grain.

The stuff in the middle is the spruce and the other planks are white oak:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AJXmETO9YUpiwzuPiZV2kapkuDrJ6aVewJFJlzig7Gp4WUGgCP 1lUjJmxuG5lRn4b3rwl23qeGYUHOaJM6k7AMbFNUFW2Gh9SbaD jeR0DrEWA8HMPM3ZeiQhu31bOcIVazBsLYzlsBfPOa0p9IrNAu lkteE7kv1F6poCCOTpwD2r2E4ZhyqLISfeBkhj3g78P-xO7VHDdZ-Sbb9ZaWMZ06gYehNBGmqxeeL3GLg4xRvPtxUl_9FbIZk4I-CGsm3TlK9o-QbVeB1CCexjSDWgGfbK5sfzN7dVo5dwd6cdLaXw27p_LfGyIc5 bLAjOND8ati1yllTe81lvnSZFV1B3OPLN1H2azbNGo-u6-BK8yJajfYs2wvxcvNjqCM4Jkcntm3JdpCJUj1H1tHip8zo0BPU iHcVRdDhFVxJoZQwfE8jFGbPdNSG8efscE11RWcNwAcRiDl69d o6r5jVzT9LotzAdLfyXF6C5uOeQK_4_Hu2jH3oemaPZe8jqya6 XuLOZ9aO4jmFLdp0V10UOti3L_kAOT6jkBZ_fQTkUf5Roqp2Cf ZaxXK6zE8UXjpbpRZ8nE7qZusqLtlaPgP0wC1Uo8DgjY6lqg2V b=w1698-h955-no

Now, if you are a tool guy then you might like this machine, cue in the Tim Allen Grunt. This is how I resaw this stuff to make guitars out of.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LaGOc1HuU613MCAbx411TMlfuBkSC7Ra774uupDkQJmtws_663 OEpcgT1isILXErbsuOgm5swouSxZTx4REUET5U_h8M1tY3ix_-8eVitlpmxMsHclNz-0NWMs4LRdZuRDrAK6zxgpkr1_C-w1awCtYY0rbpggcOt6l4BEcGnbB6NJ3-06jGttNc8d-K7gcTE19V70t9l41Pqt0KNStxB3mB3fK3vKOH6aP5kKBWVJWwE tuFLBnKQIe3Z-PSZqebQrYrBUQ0gKYD-tFGsCb_oB3sFFAtRikQwzENSKiox-Q529k4RqwKU0F8ngQNvPcyebjCOCSLivxnRioXatMjeTPkE6h1 fCOpY25t_rFIPPgjdkEEAN8huzI6WOhkxlfT06OQKS7s_zMW6m A2g-8IGaGA6mNtF3fmTCvqP5TDCzN5n8fc9KhCIiOV67YBOtoU7tOR xaFCN9-t-Yyj2OLMm3aLN1pPV1aisi9QlbL-EUIuOqst_M6zkOylbjqR-wXVQCks4enWFxpzo8XjQbuckdCGlyQy7y1j-JT8OBauQ-vB7KiMf9dzj3wBFuniT-ggq4fmVLd8D4b-_WGg4wYHahaZsbKGUJbB=w538-h955-no


redir's pictures make me want to hold onto the $500 and save up until I can get a barn guitar. What a beaut.

I see a lot of parallels in what I do with guitars and bikes. It's probably why I own a Moots and other steel lugged frames. It's not like a factory bike is not good enough, it is, but there is something special about having a hand crafted... anything. Factories tend to build for the middle of the road. They need to do this because if they build guitars too light then their warranty departments get filled up with work. So they tend to slightly over build them and the customer gets a good enough sounding guitar that ages well and doesn't have to be fussed with as much. When I build a guitar my goal is to make an instrument that is on the verge of self destruction. Sounds kind of crazy but that is the end goal, a guitar that can withstand string tension but only barely. That means the customer has to take a little more special care with it but in the end they have a very responsive guitar and hear things that you simply cannot get out of most factory guitars. And with these barn wood guitars also comes a story, an instrument, a sculpture, a work of art created from the dilapidation of an old barn that was once the pride and joy of an old Virginia farmer, something like that. I'm building one now, starting next week, for a guy who specifically wants to have the old nail holes and worm holes on the guitar as part of that story.

The very first thing I do is build tools for musicians. So first things first, a guitar that sounds and plays great, then comes the story, the sculpture, the inlay, the trim, and so on.

But anyway.... Sorry to hijack the thread but when I get talking about guitars I can go on for days :D

Oh and By the way I am just about to finish one up in the next couple weeks and it has no buyer yet :D :cool:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UDRs1VCLvvRvCqUX5r7juNEyVTs_xjDR7D-SIJhWnfVlSvE8gA7kWanCOBEy9MHYQw9X-PnM9668Q6O_u18cq4ALC7E-CirqpRlqBOB-wy-hjpS_qdNvatYgCZ1AAbndmDL_lphb7-slGc3CkFcylsjWFHEGzCTyAf8kbSTjItZg4YPRRLEOmg24i1wZ 39TX5d6_bFZ8gy25u_7NzA9PYzGjyF4z_uXX9RpkSQz7o1b0aQ Fe-1CjMKGMSI0TpTnJKNexUbE0a_vgfs6DTHPmUEnktrdHZ9lSsiJ c6ZdfQ6XTV5xcasw1u0aZWPTKphtrEuQ2sXKIuiKx7zXr3Bj70 XIzNFH_OzoqDNPdRvQHKfYIfQU7tqfrVBXZoO8ZfzNJ3YkPyJc PYLjnTVq3tfkp46YR5-b6Y1RLsM7rUHJ6QR0cleqEvbr-EhZL2IfnoUdDUcS12hxX1nW8dr4U4Wf9k4c5KXikX6XrEXhmFy-XBF6iYBZ5CTkf18pwe9boS73hdKPHhGgSLesJ78sjG_knFA5a5 Yh8-wnrDLigyY8uGBvYq9RAeUawVf_gLaOJzsSsX1jsFWxMtrA3HXy JW33mzAhIkcNGuDRZ=w1109-h955-no

[Sierra]

More and more luthiers are taking to using reclaimed wood for building their instruments with some excellent results.

During the 1960s/70s, the legendary Spanish luthier, Miguel Rodriguez, built around 20 guitars from a church door he had found floating around on the Mediterranean sea years earlier. These eventually became known as his famous Churchdoor guitars and they now fetch a pretty penny ($25K - $45K) if you can even find one for sale. A 1973 Rodriguez Churchdoor:

[ColonelJLloyd]

More and more luthiers are taking to using reclaimed wood for building their instruments with some excellent results.


Creston Electric has been doing some really cool reclaimed stuff for several year. 'lectric, though.

[redir]

More and more luthiers are taking to using reclaimed wood for building their instruments with some excellent results.

During the 1960s/70s, the legendary Spanish luthier, Miguel Rodriguez, built around 20 guitars from a church door he had found floating around on the Mediterranean sea years earlier. These eventually became known as his famous Churchdoor guitars and they now fetch a pretty penny ($25K - $45K) if you can even find one for sale. A 1973 Rodriguez Churchdoor:

Wow that's really cool I had never heard that story before.

[MattTuck]

Well, I did it. Something I've been thinking about for a long time. I bought a used, entry level guitar and I'm going to try to learn a musical instrument. This thread and a few other coincidences all lined up, and I pulled the trigger.

Just learned Mary Had a Little Lamb. I get the feeling it is going to be a LONG process to become proficient. haha

[Louis]

Just learned Mary Had a Little Lamb. I get the feeling it is going to be a LONG process to become proficient. haha

Matt, in a few weeks this will be you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xjJXT0C0X4

[rounder]

There have been a lot of good recommendations about fair - good guitars.

I recommend also comparing to a high end acoustic guitar like a Martin, Taylor or Gibson to see what they are about. If you like high end or custom bikes, there is a good chance you will see the differences in a better guitar. It does not mean that you should buy a high end guitar just because you can see and appreciate the difference.

But, if you try one, you may find the neck more comfortable, it will be easier to get the guitar in tune, you may find that the strings are still in tune when you play higher up on the neck, not just in the lower position. You may find that the tone is much better (new strings can have something to do with that). When you hold it and look at it, you may find that the good guitar just looks better and feels better than the other also guitar.

Price-wise, there is a big difference. A new good guitar may cost $1,500 compared to about $500 for an ok guitar. A good used guitar may cost half that.

I bought a (high-end) Martin D-28 for about $300 in 1970. I later bought a 1995(?) Martin HD-28 (pretty much same guitar) for about $1,500. Today the same guitar is about twice that. My guess is that a comparable Taylor or Gibson would be bout the same price.

My vote is that you play the guitars that are within your price range, but that you also play some of the higher end comparable guitars. If you play them all and can not tell a difference, what difference does it make what you buy. But if you play them all and find that you like the nicer guitars, then you should find a way to get the guitar that really sends you.

[gngroup]

Go to a good music shop with both new and vintage guitars and play! You may gravitate naturally toward one versus another for a variety of reasons (action, tone, etc). Guitars vary so much that I think you are missing a big part of the process if you don't go tool around on them for a few weeks before taking the plunge. I still have my 71' Gibson J45 that I bought 20 years ago as a high schooler - it just had that something that spoke to me. I've had and played others but this one has remained. I found it in a used shop and played about every guitar they had until I settled on that one.

[classtimesailer]

I'm jealous. It may take me 16 years to learn to play my Crafter ( which you might consider if you were considering a Yamaha). When I can finally play, I'm getting a National Resophonic from Doug Macleod.

[MattTuck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ6iyWSEzIs

[redir]

"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step."

I've played a few CF instruments and they sounded pretty darn good. You can paddle a canoe with one too, just in case your up a creek without one.

[Avincent52]

I know a thing or two about acoustic guitars, as I'm lucky enough to call some of America's greatest builders my friends. (So this question is a bit like answering the $200 road bike question for some of you....)

1) I'd go out and play a lot of instruments. Find out what a good--or great--guitar sounds like. Find out what size (both body shape and neck shape) works for you ergonomically and meshes well with your style.

2) Realize that you'll get the most out of your modest budget if you buy a used guitar. Learn a little about the issues to look for and how to recognize them. Some should scare you away (high action/low saddle which could mean a neck re-set is necessary)
Others --like back or side cracks--can be fixed pretty easily.

3) Head for the guitar equivalent of Paceline. The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum and the Acoustic Guitar Forum both have active classified sections much like our classifieds here.
Sellers tend to be quite upfront about the issue a guitar might have and the transactions tend to be much more relaxed than, say, ebay.
You might post a free WTB ad, because for many guitar nuts a $500 guitar might be their camping guitar, or a student guitar they bought for a kid.

If you've got any specific questions, feel free to PM me.

[Louis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ6iyWSEzIs

Steel is real

-https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/DS_Brothers_in_Arms.jpg

[benb]

Funny I had responded before even though I have barely touched my Yamaha FG700 in months, largely cause I've done a ton of biking this season.

I pulled it out yesterday, tried to play it sitting, and bam, within 15 minutes my rotator cuff (right side) was starting to ache. I'm going to go start looking for something smaller very soon. I just can't seem to make it work for me.. hurts my shoulder in the "casual position", if I try and hold it in "classical position" it feels like my left hand has to reach a mile away to get to the lower frets, and I have a hard time holding it steady standing. Standing definitely works best but I don't want to stand all the time.

Who knows why it gives me so much trouble.. but I want to be able to play it sitting while I learn so something smaller is in the cards. I think my right shoulder is just right at the edge of it's range of motion to get around the guitar when sitting.

[redir]

Funny I had responded before even though I have barely touched my Yamaha FG700 in months, largely cause I've done a ton of biking this season.

I pulled it out yesterday, tried to play it sitting, and bam, within 15 minutes my rotator cuff (right side) was starting to ache. I'm going to go start looking for something smaller very soon. I just can't seem to make it work for me.. hurts my shoulder in the "casual position", if I try and hold it in "classical position" it feels like my left hand has to reach a mile away to get to the lower frets, and I have a hard time holding it steady standing. Standing definitely works best but I don't want to stand all the time.

Who knows why it gives me so much trouble.. but I want to be able to play it sitting while I learn so something smaller is in the cards. I think my right shoulder is just right at the edge of it's range of motion to get around the guitar when sitting.

It's not really too uncommon. There are many who have trouble with dreadnought sized guitars and their shoulder. You may want to consider a 12 fret guitar. In the classical position it won't feel like it's miles away and in general is more comfortable to play.

[IJWS]

I know a thing or two about acoustic guitars, as I'm lucky enough to call some of America's greatest builders my friends. (So this question is a bit like answering the $200 road bike question for some of you....)

1) I'd go out and play a lot of instruments. Find out what a good--or great--guitar sounds like. Find out what size (both body shape and neck shape) works for you ergonomically and meshes well with your style.

2) Realize that you'll get the most out of your modest budget if you buy a used guitar. Learn a little about the issues to look for and how to recognize them. Some should scare you away (high action/low saddle which could mean a neck re-set is necessary)
Others --like back or side cracks--can be fixed pretty easily.

3) Head for the guitar equivalent of Paceline. The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum and the Acoustic Guitar Forum both have active classified sections much like our classifieds here.
Sellers tend to be quite upfront about the issue a guitar might have and the transactions tend to be much more relaxed than, say, ebay.
You might post a free WTB ad, because for many guitar nuts a $500 guitar might be their camping guitar, or a student guitar they bought for a kid.

If you've got any specific questions, feel free to PM me.


THIS...is good advice.

[benb]

It's not really too uncommon. There are many who have trouble with dreadnought sized guitars and their shoulder. You may want to consider a 12 fret guitar. In the classical position it won't feel like it's miles away and in general is more comfortable to play.

That was easy.. I went and traded my Yamaha in on an Alvarez that is 00 sized. Played that and a Martin mini dreadnought (D-JR?). Both seemed to be fine, the Martin was just way out of my league price wise. They both seemed WAY smaller on my lap even though the measurements wouldn't make you think they were much smaller. They both had a smaller scale and yet for whatever reason the lower frets are not a reach at all despite being 14 fret. I played the Alvarez till my fingertips were raw before buying it and my shoulder wasn't bothered at all. I'm pretty psyched as the damage wasn't bad, and the Alvarez has pickups too.

[fuzzalow]

I don't have much to add about acoustic guitars but can add a comment appropriate to trying 'n buying them and of guitars in general:

The setup of the guitar makes a lotta difference and IMO it is extremely rare to find a showroom guitar finely setup even disregarding the unique specifics as to individual player preference. Neck relief, string action, nut spacing & height, even frets that are unevenly dressed are things that new guitars don't usually get paid attention to. And this changes the feel and influences the tone. Guitar Center!? Fuhgettaboudit.

The only shop where almost every guitar on the showroom wall was setup pretty well was Mandolin Brothers on Staten Island NYC. Stan Jay ran that shop like his own home where customers could stop by almost like to check out Stan's own guitars. RIP Stan.

Yamahas aren't too bad and a good value last time I looked. Set'em up correctly for how you like 'em makes more difference than the guitar at the price points most people are shopping in. Hey, just like bikes!

[sparky33]

The only shop where almost every guitar on the showroom wall was setup pretty well was Mandolin Brothers on Staten Island NYC. Stan Jay ran that shop like his own home where customers could stop by almost like to check out Stan's own guitars. RIP Stan.


Huh? I had no idea.
Mandolin Bros was a regular pilgrimage for me over the years, but it's been a long while. So many very fine instruments just waiting to be played. Bought and sold a couple banjos with Stan. Good guy. RIP.

[redir]

That was easy.. I went and traded my Yamaha in on an Alvarez that is 00 sized. Played that and a Martin mini dreadnought (D-JR?). Both seemed to be fine, the Martin was just way out of my league price wise. They both seemed WAY smaller on my lap even though the measurements wouldn't make you think they were much smaller. They both had a smaller scale and yet for whatever reason the lower frets are not a reach at all despite being 14 fret. I played the Alvarez till my fingertips were raw before buying it and my shoulder wasn't bothered at all. I'm pretty psyched as the damage wasn't bad, and the Alvarez has pickups too.

Well that was quick!

I spend a fair amount of time over at the Acoustic Guitar forum and am always trying to convince people that buying a guitar sight unseen is often a mistake. Or at least have a good return policy. And that's for all the reasons you mention. Even if you walked into a room with 20 identical guitars, same brand, model, size, scale, shape and so on there would be one there that would just feel right for some reason.

[MattTuck]

I've been sucked into this black hole of guitars. I can't even play yet, and I've already sketched out my guitar acquisition road map for the next 3 guitars.

:help:

[OtayBW]

I've been sucked into this black hole of guitars. I can't even play yet, and I've already sketched out my guitar acquisition road map for the next 3 guitars.:help:The Force is strong with you, Luke...(be careful!).

Huh? I had no idea.
Mandolin Bros was a regular pilgrimage for me over the years, but it's been a long while. So many very fine instruments just waiting to be played. Bought and sold a couple banjos with Stan. Good guy. RIP.I didn't know that Stan Jay passed. I purchased a 1922 Fairbanks-Vega Tubaphone from them long time ago (maybe 1978???). What tone on that thing!

[benb]

Well that was quick!

I spend a fair amount of time over at the Acoustic Guitar forum and am always trying to convince people that buying a guitar sight unseen is often a mistake. Or at least have a good return policy. And that's for all the reasons you mention. Even if you walked into a room with 20 identical guitars, same brand, model, size, scale, shape and so on there would be one there that would just feel right for some reason.

Hehe.. I'm still doomed.. I really should find a teacher but I don't really have the time or money right now. (Maybe in a few years) My 3rd finger started hurting yesterday after playing the new guitar a bunch over the weekend, turns out I was fretting with a really bad hand position. Luckily it's fine today. It's like anything to do with guitar I will naturally find the most inefficient and harmful way to accomplish something. I don't get it, cause when it comes to sports I'm pretty much the opposite. Music is the thing I'm an idiot at, at least the physical parts. (I never got any music as a kid, maybe that would have helped.) It does seem like there are a ton of good resources on the internet though. There are like 1000 videos on Youtube demonstrating why what I was doing was wrong so I have something to work on.

There is enough challenge that I can't even imagine worrying about buying different guitars. In any case the smaller body clearly solves the shoulder issue for me.

[Bob Ross]

Mandolin Bros was a regular pilgrimage for me over the years, but it's been a long while.

Same here; back in the early 00s we used to make it an semi-annual event: Take the ferry to SI, hang out at Mandolin Bros from opening until lunch time, then go next door to the Burrito Bar for too many Tai Dyes, then stumble back in to Mandolin Bros for the rest of the afternoon. Bought & sold some choice pieces there over the years, but the best takeaway was the warm, welcoming environment Stan & Co. created.

When news of his passing first hit the local papers there was some talk of his kids carrying on the business, but it seemed unlikely at the time and I haven't heard a peep since.

[rounder]

The Force is strong with you, Luke...(be careful!).

I didn't know that Stan Jay passed. I purchased a 1922 Fairbanks-Vega Tubaphone from them long time ago (maybe 1978???). What tone on that thing!

Never bought a Fairbanks-Vega Tubaphone, but did buy a case from Mandolin Bros. for a Fairbanks Whyte Laydie. They had a similar banjo in stock and I told them that I needed a case just like that. No problem. Mandolin Bros. was great to deal with. Understand they are closing. I know nothing is forever, but it is still a bummer.

Anyway...back to picking out a reasonable acoustic.

[unterhausen]

Guitar players definitely have a worse N+1 problem than cyclists. I know I did back when I was trying to be serious about it. Last time I took it up again, I squashed my left middle finger, so fretting was impossible for a couple of months.

[MattTuck]

I've been sucked into this black hole of guitars. I can't even play yet, and I've already sketched out my guitar acquisition road map for the next 3 guitars.

:help:

The Force is strong with you, Luke...(be careful!).


Guitar players definitely have a worse N+1 problem than cyclists. I know I did back when I was trying to be serious about it. Last time I took it up again, I squashed my left middle finger, so fretting was impossible for a couple of months.

Not sure about that... my bicycle acquisition road map is quite complex, long and detailed. It is a spreadsheet, I'm a nerd.

[rounder]

Being a nerd at anything can be really satisfying and challenging.

No way would I ever try to tell anyone to not try to play guitar.

But, I bought my wife a pretty cool guitar for our 25th anniversary. She loved it. It was pretty. She tried to play it...impossible for her. Fingers would not connect with the dots. The rude awakening is that you cannot just pick up a guitar and play it...even if you know what it is supposed to look like. You have to put in time to make it work.

[MattTuck]

F the F chord.

That is all.

[ColonelJLloyd]

F the F chord.

That is all.

Ha. You don't need that bass F note, man.

[benb]

F the F chord.

That is all.

Heh.. I've got that one looming in front of me. I don't really have to rush to get there but I feel like Barre chords might be the thing that gets me to a teacher. No one seems to really be giving you good advice on how to do it online.

[MattTuck]

I've been using Justin Guitar in addition to a book, and my teacher.

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-161-F-chord.php

[Steve in SLO]

I've been using Justin Guitar in addition to a book, and my teacher.

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-161-F-chord.php

+1 on Justin. He's really good.

[redir]

F the F chord.

That is all.

Do you have a good set up on the guitar? The string height at the nut should be the same as the frets in front of it. I Have people bring $3000 Martin and better guitars in my shop that could stand to have a better set up at the nut.

The F-Chord is a hard one to get but a good set up can help tremendously.

Have it checked out.

[p nut]

F is easy for me, but after all these years, I still struggle with B.

[benb]

Do you have a good set up on the guitar? The string height at the nut should be the same as the frets in front of it. I Have people bring $3000 Martin and better guitars in my shop that could stand to have a better set up at the nut.

The F-Chord is a hard one to get but a good set up can help tremendously.

Have it checked out.

Pretty interesting.. I picked up a $1000 martin in a store recently and the setup was horrific. I think it was the nut... the individual strings were at different heights above the fretboard, big differences. The G string was super super low, most of the others were really high. Super distracting trying to play it.

I had mine setup at a local luthier.. it is fairly low. I'm not really working on barres but hopefully that means my guitar is OK. I keep finding anything that seems like it is a hard physical effort on the guitar is just incorrect technique, finger placement, etc.. so hopefully that's all I have to figure out with the F chord or B chord, etc..

[MattTuck]

Do you have a good set up on the guitar? The string height at the nut should be the same as the frets in front of it. I Have people bring $3000 Martin and better guitars in my shop that could stand to have a better set up at the nut.

The F-Chord is a hard one to get but a good set up can help tremendously.

Have it checked out.

Thanks for the advice. I bought a used Breedlove Discovery Concert. It could probably be set up better, as I get some fret buzz on the low E and A strings on the first and second frets.

That said, I am hitting the f-chord with about 40-50% success. When I get it, I get it. Then there are other times that, even with a perfect set up, I don't think it would help. My fingers are on the wrong strings and/or not aligned properly with the fret (either diagonally in one direction, or way up close to the nut). The song I'm working on now has a boat load of F-chords. Something like 1/3 of the song is F-chords, so it is an issue of consistency.

[fuzzalow]

That said, I am hitting the f-chord with about 40-50% success. When I get it, I get it.

HaHa! Yeah, the guy on the street who yells to a taxi driver for directions: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice!" replies the cabbie.

What until you gotta hit the Fm barre chord - most newer players can't get the G# to ring correctly 'cos it often falls right under the first joint of the barre-capo-index finger when laid across the first fret.

How to fix this? Practice, setup on the nut, curve the finger across the fretboard radius while applying pressure, wrist alignment which affects finger position & alignment, all of the above in varying degrees. The subtleties in playing an instrument are both satisfying and maddening depending on whether you see options & technique as a blessing or a curse.

Have fun - the journey is the reward.

[redir]

Yup even the high quality factory guitars often come out of the show room needing setups. Don't even get me started on Gibson... They are the worst. But once set up they are great.

I think the full barre F7th might be the hardest.

You'll get the hang of it after a while.

I forgot to mention string gauge too. I always advocate that one should find the best string gauge based on the tone of the guitar but when you start learning it might be helpful to get a light set. Then you can go to medium if the guitar sounds better with them.

[Louis]

Reading all this and watching some of the Justin videos sure makes me think that learning to play the piano is a lot easier, at least when it comes to finger coordination. (I do neither.)

[OtayBW]

F the F chord.

That is all.
Aw hell - it will just be there one day. Done.
Try playing full bar chords. When you get comfortable with, say G or C bar chords, the F will kick right in...
GL

[Bob Ross]

What until you gotta hit the Fm barre chord - most newer players can't get the G# to ring correctly 'cos it often falls right under the first joint of the barre-capo-index finger when laid across the first fret.

How to fix this? Practice, setup on the nut, curve the finger across the fretboard radius while applying pressure, wrist alignment which affects finger position & alignment, all of the above in varying degrees.

...or substitute an Fm7, which is not only harmonically richer and generally regarded as "hipper" by jazzbos and elitest music theory snobs, but also (ironically) much easier to play. :banana:

[marciero]

A simple and easy approach with all of these fully-voiced six-note F variants is to use thumb on low E-string.

[rounder]

Accoustic Guitar refers to the non-bar chords as cowboy chords. You can play them with a lot of songs, especially folk songs and the chords will sound great.

But there is no way that you can move forward playing guitar without learning how to play barre chords. The more that you play them, the easier it gets. The more you do that, the more you understand how to play guitar, and the more satisfying it gets.

[marciero]

Accoustic Guitar refers to the non-bar chords as cowboy chords. You can play them with a lot of songs, especially folk songs and the chords will sound great.

But there is no way that you can move forward playing guitar without learning how to play barre chords. The more that you play them, the easier it gets. The more you do that, the more you understand how to play guitar, and the more satisfying it gets.

Cowboy chords are open position chords with open strings-C, D, G, etc. These are typically the first chords one learns. Chords in other positions up the next, however, are not referred to as cowboy chords.

While a knowledge of barre chords is important, they have little use outside of rock and roll, esp. the full index-finger barre. Jazz players, for example, favor three and four-note chords, or even two-note voicings depending on the other instruments.

[fuzzalow]

I think the full barre F7th might be the hardest.

...or substitute an Fm7, which is not only harmonically richer and generally regarded as "hipper" by jazzbos and elitest music theory snobs, but also (ironically) much easier to play. :banana:

I get what you're sayin' but I think that either remark is beside the point: in learning an instrument, it doesn't matter what the fingering is, how hard it is or workaround substitutions that can be used. The only thing that matters is that you keep at it until you get it. A hundred reps, a thousand reps, whatever it takes. Face it, fingering is fairly rudimentary; timing and phrasing is equally difficult if not more so - and you need all of it.

No music snob or jazzbo here - I'm just an amateur nobody who enjoys music to want to play it. I'm perfectly happy to play Zep's "Good Times Bad Times" as playing as good as I aspire to be. Talking about F barre chord, there's some arpeggio barre stuff in "Since I've Been Loving You" that's tricky but it feels good to get better at something - so you just keep going at it until you can nail it.

[redir]

Full barre chords are used quite a bit in classical and flamenco too. I think they are even harder to make on classical guitar. People think classical guitar is easier to play and in fact often suggest it for beginners because the strings are nylon but it's not really true. You have to be even better at adjusting the pressure on each string in a barre chord or else it will be dead and it will sound horrible. Missing a note on a steel string or electric guitar is not as bad sounding.

I've recently started playing some Gypsy jazz tunes, talk about weird chording. mostly odd shaped 3 note chords with muted strings and so on.

[cmbicycles]

Full and partial Barre chords are used in just about any style, the thing I've found is that over time you learn how to press just enough on the strings. Over time you start to vary pressure on different parts of your fingers as you get more sensitive to finer adjustments in your fingering.

I don't have thick calluses like when I started playing as my fingers "know" how hard they need to press and it isn't as much. I'm no Segovia & I don't have the (incredibly adept) sausage fingers he had either :), though Ive noticed some of my students with thinner fingers have more difficulty with barre chords than those with more meat on their bones so to speak.

Looking back after 25+ years I've grown tremendously as a guitarist, & I'm maybe a better than average guitarist (when Im playing at my best), but there is still so much for me to learn.
As Fuzz said, the journey is the goal. Enjoy the learning, failing, and growth thru it all.

[unterhausen]

I think the best thing I ever did was learn to play on an electric. I'm sure many people will disagree, but I found picking up acoustic was pretty easy once I could play. And if you have an electric you can play without pissing everyone off.

Barre chords are the way to go. You basically need to know two forms and done. That's the genesis of every bar band ever. If you're going to get fancy, there are a couple of forms of the pentatonic scale that get used a lot. Probably easier to learn those than chords.

[OtayBW]

Bar chords made easy!..............NOT!:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j42/zelmo_2006/DSC00071.jpg (http://s77.photobucket.com/user/zelmo_2006/media/DSC00071.jpg.html)

[froze]

If you want a nice steel string guitar without pickup capability a really nice one for the price is the Art & Lutherie Ami Cedar Antique Burst Acoustic Guitar, see: https://www.amazon.com/Art-Lutherie-Antique-Acoustic-Guitar/dp/B000UMLDA4?tag=guitarfcomt-20 It does have an adjustable neck so you can vary the action for your taste. At least one reviewer did not like the strings that came with it so he put on light Daddario strings, but I'm sure that's a personal thing which you may or may not agree too when you try playing it. And the weird thing about this the guitar...NOT MADE IN CHINA? SAY WHAAATT!!!

Be prepared to SAY WHAAAAT!!! again because the next one is little bit more money then the above but it may also be a bit better, and that is the Seagull S6 Acoustic Guitar made in N. America? that bears repeating...N. AMERICA! This one with the stock strings had a bit darker sound but full sound than the above one, but the sound has been compared to guitars costing twice as much, and the durability has been very high. See this: https://www.amazon.com/Seagull-S6-Original-Acoustic-Guitar/dp/B000RW0GT6?tag=guitarfcomt-20&th=1

Please read all the reviews at the Amazon site on both of those.

If you want a electric acoustic guitar the one that stands out for me under $500, or right at $500 is the Martin LX1E, it is a small in stature guitar but it does have a large guitar sound, but small may be good if you want to travel with it easier than a full size one, regardless the sound makes it sound like a full size job. https://www.amazon.com/LX1E-Little-Martin-Travel-Fishman/dp/B001CM7U5I

Another good electric acoustic is the Yamaha FGX720SC, it has very high reviews, along with no fret noise, this guitar has been rated as good if not better than Taylor 100-300 series, and those cost a lot more! https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-FGX720SC-Solid-Acoustic-Electric-Guitar/dp/B001UWGS6M?tag=guitarfcom-20&th=1

Again read all the reviews on Amazon for both of these.

[cv1966]

Love this thread. It got me motivated to start playing again. Never been much good but it's fun. I've had a Martin D-1 for 15yrs and still love it.

[cmbicycles]

...
Again read all the reviews on Amazon for both of these.

I could never buy a guitar online... gotta hear or play it in person imo.

[froze]

Some of these are found in guitar stores, I just posted the Amazon so you could see it and read about it. Even if you couldn't find those locally Amazon accepts returns with no questions asked...I think most people know that about Amazon.

[unterhausen]

In the old-style mom and pop music stores, guitars usually have a 40 percent discount if you ask. My first guitar, they did the old "I have to ask my manager" thing like a car dealer. The store local to us will meet Musician's Friend prices, which aren't the lowest you can find but close enough. The store I spent the most money in would have "sales" fairly frequently, the prices were higher than their actual price.

[enr1co]

F the F chord.

That is all.

Congrats on your new Breedlove!

Keep at that F and other barchord forms. They're one of the big starting out challenges for anyone with them being used so much.

Soon your fingers will be limber and strong enough that it will be second nature. :)

[William]

Vote for Taylor here...just don't fly United with it....;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo







William

[benb]

Some of these are found in guitar stores, I just posted the Amazon so you could see it and read about it. Even if you couldn't find those locally Amazon accepts returns with no questions asked...I think most people know that about Amazon.

Yah guitar prices are full of a bunch of BS. That said I think they're really hard to shop for and you really should play them before buying, but:

- If they have variation you don't know what the one from Amazon is going to be like
- It's hard to get a good feeling in a store cause the actions are all over the place
- Lots of stores the strings are utterly trashed on the display models which is going to effect your ability to judge.
- Some but not all guitar companies play model # games like mattresses. The one on Amazon and a small vendor is a different model # than the one at Guitar center but the guitar is the exact same other than the model sticker.

I was out shopping yesterday as I was contemplating buying my brother a bass for Xmas/birthday.. I am amazed at how much more I notice the differences between different guitars now than even 3-4 months ago.

I paid less than 1/2 the MSRP for my current acoustic, with no haggling. Prices are just nuts. (Mine is a pretty modest Alvarez)

[redir]

I agree that you should definitely play an acoustic guitar before buying but lets face it the mom and pops are closing down one by one. A lot of online stores will give you a trial period.

The interesting thing is I'm building guitars right now for a few clients around the country.. A custom guitar is something that is purchased sight unseen but it's often considered the best of the best way of doing it. I actually prefer to build them and have them in stock for people to try but I also won't say no to a commission.

It's a bit nerve racking to build something up to someone's expectations though. I always give a 5 day trial period and they can return it no questions asked.

[benb]

Doing custom guitars that way must be even harder than bicycles.. do most of your customers tend to be really experienced and have a keen awareness of what they need and the vocabulary necessary to communicate it to you?

[redir]

Doing custom guitars that way must be even harder than bicycles.. do most of your customers tend to be really experienced and have a keen awareness of what they need and the vocabulary necessary to communicate it to you?

I always think of custom bikes in a similar manor as well. A lot of hand made custom products share such similarities. What they share most in is the market. So for example you can buy a perfectly suited bicycle for commuting, racing, touring and so on for a fraction of the cost of a custom one. Same with guitars. Some of the ones already mentioned from Yamaha, Guild and so on are well suited from the bedroom to the professional stage.

So what I find is that most of my customers are not only looking for something that functions great, a great sounding and playing guitar, but also sort of story behind it as well, a feeling if you will. Not unlike buying art in general.

One of my more popular guitars now is really just as much a folk art project as it is a great sounding instrument. Guitars made solely from the wood of an old barn. The barn was built in 1920 and collapsed some time about ten years ago on the farm I lived on in Virginia. I managed to salvage enough white oak, pine and spruce for a few dozen guitars. All the nail holes, knots and worm holes are included. But that's part of the story and people like it especially when they make really nice guitars too.

Other customers want the straight up mahogany, rosewood, spruce and so on and they tend to be the ones that are looking more for a more specific tone. But even then they could get that with a Martin too, they just want a real hand made small shop guitar.

[Louis]

I've probably posted this before, but it's worth repeating here - I can't imagine a greater honor for a luthier than this: Mark Knopfler writing a song about you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c17v-DS_BU

http://www.openculture.com/2013/07/guitar-stories-mark-knopfler-on-the-six-guitars-that-shaped-his-career.html

[MattTuck]

Continuing on my adventure/journey of learning the guitar. My teacher told me about Shakey Graves. I realize this doesn't really belong in the acoustic thread, but he certainly has a interesting sound.

Also, a pretty amusing story on how he got his name. Origin story. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUkSTnUK_T0)


Roll the Bones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD72LbIk02M

[djg]

HaHa! Yeah, the guy on the street who yells to a taxi driver for directions: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice!" replies the cabbie.



The abridged (butchered?) version of a venerable joke -- time to teach the cheater version of the F chord?

[djg]

Thanks for the advice. I bought a used Breedlove Discovery Concert. It could probably be set up better, as I get some fret buzz on the low E and A strings on the first and second frets.

That said, I am hitting the f-chord with about 40-50% success. When I get it, I get it. Then there are other times that, even with a perfect set up, I don't think it would help. My fingers are on the wrong strings and/or not aligned properly with the fret (either diagonally in one direction, or way up close to the nut). The song I'm working on now has a boat load of F-chords. Something like 1/3 of the song is F-chords, so it is an issue of consistency.

You'll get it. A setup might well help but this is something that takes time -- and longer for some than for others. Be persistent but not relentless. It's partly about building up hand strength, which takes time, but it's also about technique -- a bunch of things, from how you are holding your wrist/hand/index finger to developing some flexibility in your changes.

[redir]

Continuing on my adventure/journey of learning the guitar. My teacher told me about Shakey Graves. I realize this doesn't really belong in the acoustic thread, but he certainly has a interesting sound.

Also, a pretty amusing story on how he got his name. Origin story. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUkSTnUK_T0)


Roll the Bones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD72LbIk02M

That's awesome! I never heard of that cat before. He's got like an old school delta sound with a personal twist.

[djg]

I agree that you should definitely play an acoustic guitar before buying but lets face it the mom and pops are closing down one by one. A lot of online stores will give you a trial period.

The interesting thing is I'm building guitars right now for a few clients around the country.. A custom guitar is something that is purchased sight unseen but it's often considered the best of the best way of doing it. I actually prefer to build them and have them in stock for people to try but I also won't say no to a commission.

It's a bit nerve racking to build something up to someone's expectations though. I always give a 5 day trial period and they can return it no questions asked.

Wait a minute . . . custom guitars . . . mountains of Virginia . . . is your first name Wayne and do you have a special waiting list for cyclists?

[91Bear]

I had a Simon and Patrick which is made by Godin (who also own Seagull) which I liked. I switched to a Taylor 214. I love the Taylor: steel string style neck, nylon strings.

I agree Yamaha makes great guitars for the money. Ditto Godin and subsidiaries. I'd definitely look at some of Godin's lines besides Seagulls. They're also Canadian made and can often be had for decent deals. (Art and Lutherie is one of the others).

I can't recommend Taylor highly enough, though.
I also have a Simon and Patrick Rosewood Pro. I paid $600 for it. A Nashville session musician had one and was giving me lessons. I loved the sound of it. I have a Martin too but it has mahogany sides & back. The S&P really projects with the rosewood.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[rounder]

Wait a minute . . . custom guitars . . . mountains of Virginia . . . is your first name Wayne and do you have a special waiting list for cyclists?

Yeah, or H and D

[djg]

Yeah, or H and D

The Rockbridge guys are in Charlottesville, although I don't think of that as the mountains, even if it's not far.

I'm not shopping -- mostly just curious.

[redir]

Wait a minute . . . custom guitars . . . mountains of Virginia . . . is your first name Wayne and do you have a special waiting list for cyclists?

Ha! No. I have never made a guitar for Eric Clapton ;)

Also my wait list is clear in about one month :D

You know it's interesting though. I always seem to run into people who are interested in both guitars and bikes. I just had a conversation on another guitar related forum with a guy who builds guitars now and used to race professionally. And I know of another former European pro who is an established classical guitar maker. In fact a while back on one of my luthiers forum there was a big long discussion about steel VS carbon bikes :)

[MattTuck]

F is easy for me, but after all these years, I still struggle with B.

I have just been introduced to the B... woah.... and I thought the F chord was a challenge. The B seems to defy the biomechanical limits of my fingers.

[OtayBW]

You'd be surprised how comfortable that can actually become before you know it.

[Bob Ross]

I have just been introduced to the B... woah.... and I thought the F chord was a challenge. The B seems to defy the biomechanical limits of my fingers.


When I was teaching guitar lessons a bazillion years ago the minor 9th chord (voiced 1 3 b7 9 5) was the one that separated the proverbial Men from the Boys: The students who learned that chord shape and came back a week later with even a modest ability to grab it on the fly were the ones I knew would stick with the instrument. The ones who came back a week -- or a month -- later and said "Are you freakin' kidding me? I can't make my fingers do that!" weren't long for the guitar.

[marciero]

I have just been introduced to the B... woah.... and I thought the F chord was a challenge. The B seems to defy the biomechanical limits of my fingers.

Do you mean the barre in second position? Every beginner I have seen struggles getting the note on the first string to sound cleanly with this chord shape. Some players use fingers 2,3,4 to fret the notes on strings 4,3,2, respectively. That does not work for fat-fingered players like me unless you have classical-type string spacing. I actually use my pinky to barre those notes rather than the third finger, a habit I developed for no particular reason.

[unterhausen]

you can always get a capo and move up the neck a little. Although a lot of people that do that never get rid of the capo, which is sad. I tried to learn how to play jazz on the guitar, that's when I found out that I don't have particularly long fingers and I'm not particularly flexible. The minor 9th barre chord is just the start of the ridiculous contortions, I probably would have hand cramps nowadays if I tried some of those chords.

[marciero]

Some players are going to have an easier time sounding a note behind a barre on a higher string than others, independent of how accomplished they are. But there are very limited situations where you really need to do this, and I would go as far as to say you dont ever need to learn how to do this as you can avoid or substitute partial voicing in those rare cases. This is not an issue with the 9 or minor chord though, since you are barring all the top strings. The 9 and minor 9 are really basic bread and butter jazz chords-unavoidable, ubiquitous, must know,

[MattTuck]

Do you mean the barre in second position? Every beginner I have seen struggles getting the note on the first string to sound cleanly with this chord shape. Some players use fingers 2,3,4 to fret the notes on strings 4,3,2, respectively. That does not work for fat-fingered players like me unless you have classical-type string spacing. I actually use my pinky to barre those notes rather than the third finger, a habit I developed for no particular reason.

Yes, this one.
http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chord-images/b-major-1.gif

I guess I have fat fingers too, as there doesn't seem to be as much space on the 4th fret to get that many fingers in that spot. The A major chord is similar, but there seems to be more room for that one.

Trying to bar the strings on the 4th fret seems a little unpredictable, as far as getting my finger location right and then getting it to hyper-extend at the first knuckle.


When I was teaching guitar lessons a bazillion years ago the minor 9th chord (voiced 1 3 b7 9 5) was the one that separated the proverbial Men from the Boys: The students who learned that chord shape and came back a week later with even a modest ability to grab it on the fly were the ones I knew would stick with the instrument. The ones who came back a week -- or a month -- later and said "Are you freakin' kidding me? I can't make my fingers do that!" weren't long for the guitar.

Ok, so if I understand the terminology (which I don't claim to), you wrote, that means:

playing a B, D, A flat, C, F. Which would mean, you'd play

e: muted?
B: 6th Fret
G: 5th Fret
D: 9th Fret? (can't be right? Did you mean a flat of the 7th note off the B?)
A: 5th Fret
E: 7th Fret

I only see these three chord diagrams for the B minor 9th. I'm guessing I'm off somewhere.

http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chord-images/b-minor9.gif

[marciero]

Pretty sure he is referring to the first minor 9 voicing you have there, but add the E string 14th fret.

As far as fat fingers go, it makes it easy to fret adjacent strings on the same fret with just the tip of one finger, usually middle. So Am takes two fingers, Em takes one, etc. So the lack of room has not been an issue for me. In fact some voicings require this technique.

[DarkStar]

Anybody put their hands on a Seagull S6? Interested in it based on the reviews and the fact that it's made in Canuckistan.
Number of excellent guitars at good prices coming out of "Canuckistan", with a positive exchange rate Partial to Larrivee guitars myself, own two, a bit out of your price range.

[mjalder2]

Love this thread. It got me motivated to start playing again.

Same for me folks! This thread is great. Makes me wish my acoustic was in better shape.

FWIW, if I was buying a new acoustic, I would look for one with a satin finish. I love how those bodies age.

[DarkStar]

Guitar players definitely have a worse N+1 problem than cyclists. I know I did back when I was trying to be serious about it. Last time I took it up again, I squashed my left middle finger, so fretting was impossible for a couple of months.
True, I've owned far more guitars than bikes, fifty or more guitars since the early seventies:)

[ColonelJLloyd]

Just noticed a crack in the top of my early 2000s Gibson Songwriter Deluxe from the bottom of the bout to or under the mustache bridge. :mad:

Bummer. Not sure if this was a result of lack of humidifier in the case or if it happened when it was stolen in 2011 (without the case) and I didn't notice it until now (I don't play it everyday). Guess it's time to have a luthier put a patch in there to keep it from getting worse.

[jmeloy]

Continuing on my adventure/journey of learning the guitar. My teacher told me about Shakey Graves. I realize this doesn't really belong in the acoustic thread, but he certainly has a interesting sound.

Also, a pretty amusing story on how he got his name. Origin story. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUkSTnUK_T0)


Roll the Bones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD72LbIk02M

Matt, love his stuff and want to learn a few in time.

[jmeloy]

Took the leap a couple of weeks ago and picked up a Seagull Entourage Mini-Jumbo. Loving it so far! Solid rec's on next set of strings would be appreciated!

[572cv]

A friend of mine had an Ovation growing up. Not sure if that round, plastic back did anything, but it sounded nice.



I saw Pat Metheny on Saturday night. Sat down in the middle of the stage with this old guitar with a swoopy back.... took me a while but I recognized it finally as an Ovation. Beautiful, beautiful sound out of that thing. Ovation is what he got when he was finished too!

[genbar]

I didn't dig around this thread so it's probably been mentioned already- check ebay or craigslist for a 60s-70's Yamaha red label (Nippon Gakki). They're all solid spruce tops and sound huuuuge; a lot of people compare it to today's $2000 and up guitars. Amazing bang for your buck. There's also a poop-ton of resources available online, as it has a pretty big following. If you can find one with good action (and a straight neck) I'd hop all over it

[Bob Ross]

Solid rec's on next set of strings would be appreciated!

Well, I have a very particular sound in mind when I reach for a flattop steel-string [sic] guitar, so once I found strings that achieved that I stopped looking...and that search ended almost 30 years ago. I string 'em all up with Martin Marquis 80/20 Bronze. It's an archetypal jangly ringing chimey sound, records well, articulates well for strumming, fingerpicking, and single-note lines. Might be too bright for some folks' tastes.

[Rpoole8537]

Responding to "genbar" and 1970 Yamaha guitars. I have a Yamaha from the mid 1970's, an FG 360. All solid wood, spruce and rosewood, with ebony fretboard. The early models were made in Japan but mine was made in Taiwan. it is in fine condition and still sounds great. It is a jumbo and came in a hardwood case. sold for about $375, I think.

[jmeloy]

Well, I have a very particular sound in mind when I reach for a flattop steel-string [sic] guitar, so once I found strings that achieved that I stopped looking...and that search ended almost 30 years ago. I string 'em all up with Martin Marquis 80/20 Bronze. It's an archetypal jangly ringing chimey sound, records well, articulates well for strumming, fingerpicking, and single-note lines. Might be too bright for some folks' tastes.



Thanks Bob will try them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[AJosiahK]

I received a hand built jumbo guitar for college gradation way back. Twas my best friends father, built the guitar with a partial martin kit, and some custom bits. its freaking beautiful. Ill post photos if yall would like.

Martins have always been my favorite playing guitars, so light and crisp with a really wonderful bright sound. Ive been needing to take it in to lower the bridge however. Super high strings on the top frets makes it hard to play up there.

Here is a question to you all, what strings are your preferred brand?

Ive been out of the game so they say for too long.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Strings are highly personal. I like Elixir Phosphor Bronze on my acoustic and D'Addario EXLs on my electrics. I used Martin phosphor bronze before the Elixirs. Something about the combo of the oils in my hands and the air here that made the non-coated strings degrade pretty quickly on my acoustic. When I was playing a lot I changed the strings on my electrics every couple of gigs as a matter of course.

I've bought my strings from stringsandbeyond.com for over a decade now and recommend them.

[earlfoss]

Since we're showing off our guitars, here's mine. I was heading up a band that was playing a few times per week for around 8 years and needed a guitar that was nice, but not too nice to play out that much.

I got a deal on this Martin DM, installed a bridge pickup, and ran it through my tweed Blues Jr. That setup sounded way better than you might think. I had been toying around with the idea of getting a tweed 2x12 Twin (the really nice Fender one), or a Victoria to run it through. The ~$2k was more than the improvement in sound and headroom over the Blues JR. so I stuck with that one. Works great on it's own for live shows, and if needed it mics just fine for larger venues.

I nearly wore a hole in the top of the guitar from playing so much. I needed a pickguard that would cover the top as well as the bottom of the sound hole. It had to look cool too.

I have always liked the look of Porter Wagoner's Grammer and Martin guitars, but didn't want a flat copy. After looking all over the place, I ended up going with something closer to Bob Shane's Martin, only in tortoise rather than the black celluloid that his was.

It didn't effect the sound of the guitar at all, looked great, and did it's job perfectly. It was fairly expensive due to the material, and time spent to properly bevel the edges.

https://s28.postimg.org/nz2wni9dp/Full_Size_Render_1.jpg

Bob Shane Edition:
https://s27.postimg.org/mzfctl3xf/Martin_SBBob_D28_KTBS3.jpg

Cool Grammer guitar:
https://s28.postimg.org/b7m60myi5/leon_rhodes1.jpg

My Blues Jr. I used some shellac to orange it up a little, and also to protect the tweed from getting destroyed by getting knocked around and moisture from double duty as a drink table.
https://s30.postimg.org/g27hmrv0x/Full_Size_Render_1.jpg

[ColonelJLloyd]

Very, very cool.

[earlfoss]

The Blues Jr is a very inexpensive, very underrated amp. You get a lot for your money with those little guys! Be prepared to throw the reverb tank in the garbage though. The tanks are not made to stand up to more than home use.

[MattTuck]

Can any of you suggest a book or site that explains music theory to a beginner/novice? It would be handy if it was guitar focused.

Specifically, trying to understand chord progressions, and modes, and then also trying to understand how pentatonic scales are generated, and how the notes in them should be put together.

I am somewhat comfortable understanding basic chord construction. 1, 3, 5. or a minor, 1, 3b, 5... There seem to be a bunch of others like 7ths, dominants, diminished, suspended, etc. that I've heard people talk about, but don't know the strict definitions.

[rounder]

Can any of you suggest a book or site that explains music theory to a beginner/novice? It would be handy if it was guitar focused.

Specifically, trying to understand chord progressions, and modes, and then also trying to understand how pentatonic scales are generated, and how the notes in them should be put together.

I am somewhat comfortable understanding basic chord construction. 1, 3, 5. or a minor, 1, 3b, 5... There seem to be a bunch of others like 7ths, dominants, diminished, suspended, etc. that I've heard people talk about, but don't know the strict definitions.

I do not know a good book. When I first started playing (long time ago), I got song books for the groups I liked.

I played with friends and learned what they knew (good, bad , ugly).

Along the way, some of the best things I learned were that a lot of songs were based on one chord, four chord and five chord progressions (ADE, CFG, EAD, GCD). Then someone taught me basic 12-bar blues theory. It was pretty much all arithmetical. You waste enough time on it, and then it starts to sink in.

Eventually, you will find that you are wasting an awful lot of time just playing guitar. I did. But it was worth it.

[largeal]

Can any of you suggest a book or site that explains music theory to a beginner/novice? It would be handy if it was guitar focused.

Specifically, trying to understand chord progressions, and modes, and then also trying to understand how pentatonic scales are generated, and how the notes in them should be put together.

I am somewhat comfortable understanding basic chord construction. 1, 3, 5. or a minor, 1, 3b, 5... There seem to be a bunch of others like 7ths, dominants, diminished, suspended, etc. that I've heard people talk about, but don't know the strict definitions.

There are great Free lessons all over You Tube, you can really learn a lot about all musical topics and questions, just search on You Tube for musical topics that interest or confuse you, you will be amazed.
Have fun.

[froze]

I do not know a good book. When I first started playing (long time ago), I got song books for the groups I liked.

I played with friends and learned what they knew (good, bad , ugly).

Along the way, some of the best things I learned were that a lot of songs were based on one chord, four chord and five chord progressions (ADE, CFG, EAD, GCD). Then someone taught me basic 12-bar blues theory. It was pretty much all arithmetical. You waste enough time on it, and then it starts to sink in.

Eventually, you will find that you are wasting an awful lot of time just playing guitar. I did. But it was worth it.

Actually a good book isn't difficult to find, one of the best ones is "The Musician's Guide to Theory and Analysis" it's a 3 book set. There are also theory books on specific music type like Jazz, Blues, piano, guitar, etc, but I would start with the first one I mentioned then find specific books in the area of music and or instrument that you play.

HOWEVER, if you decide to go with a private teacher make sure that they also teach music theory in addition to whatever instrument you're wanting to learn, otherwise you're just spinning your wheels, learning theory will help you dramatically improve your skills.

[OtayBW]

Can any of you suggest a book or site that explains music theory to a beginner/novice? It would be handy if it was guitar focused.

Specifically, trying to understand chord progressions, and modes, and then also trying to understand how pentatonic scales are generated, and how the notes in them should be put together.

I am somewhat comfortable understanding basic chord construction. 1, 3, 5. or a minor, 1, 3b, 5... There seem to be a bunch of others like 7ths, dominants, diminished, suspended, etc. that I've heard people talk about, but don't know the strict definitions.I would get a book in the style of music that you're interested in. Any decent book in your area would have the info that you're looking for in the context that you want it. You might not want to learn about jump or swing blues progressions or styles if you're interested in the South Side Chicago (blues) sound or something else. What do you want to learn?

[MattTuck]

There are great Free lessons all over You Tube, you can really learn a lot about all musical topics and questions, just search on You Tube for musical topics that interest or confuse you, you will be amazed.
Have fun.

I would get a book in the style of music that you're interested in. Any decent book in your area would have the info that you're looking for in the context that you want it. You might not want to learn about jump or swing blues progressions or styles if you're interested in the South Side Chicago (blues) sound or something else. What do you want to learn?

Thanks all.

I don't really know what I want to learn, in terms of a style. I hear a lot of things and think, "boy, that sounds cool!"

But, as a starting point, I hear people play things in the E minor pentatonic scale, and it sounds amazing. Then I try to improvise in the E minor scale (really, just trying to work on picking, hammer ons, pull offs, etc.) and it sounds totally un-musical. So there must be something about the order of the notes to make them sound good, and I'd like to understand that order :)

I do watch a lot of youtube, and I have heard bits of pieces of modes, types of chords, but I'm looking for more of an overview, sort of a scaffold of ideas/concepts that I can then start to fill in more with youtube videos. If that makes sense.

[benb]

I watch a ton of YouTube guitar stuff. I typically learn more in one lesson with my teacher then I have in all the videos I've watched. For the most part the videos just gloss over tons and tons of stuff and never explain anything fully. The thing with a good teacher is they seem to know just the right thing to have you work on at just the right time, and they also tie everything together (physical + theory) in a way you can't get from videos. Some of the physical aspects are really significant, you skip a lot of trial and error when someone is showing you the right way and you practice it that way from the start. I just started with my teacher a couple months ago. Im struggling mentally with the cost but it's worth every penny.

You like hearing stuff in E minor pentatonic because we're all conditioned to like it from rock/blues.

That said I'm just about getting to the point I can watch some of the YouTube stuff and learn it on my own or work on it and then ask my teacher to help me get it. Particularly the videos that teach riffs I guess.

[rounder]

I don't think you can intellectualize learning how to play guitar, even if you are intellectual. I think you have to just go out there and do it.

Young Jimmy Page playing skiffle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfiyEsMOSu0

For me, I could play well enough that it sounded ok to me and that is fine. But, the ones who really make it have early talent and dedication.

[marciero]

I don't think you can intellectualize learning how to play guitar, even if you are intellectual. I think you have to just go out there and do it.


Sure you can. Is just another approach. There are many ways of knowing, and can depend on learning style. Knowing all the scales and modes gives me a context for understanding what is happening harmonically, for example, when I copy solos of other players. That's just the way I learn. If I understand the context and can relate them to scales I know then I can use those ideas in my own playing.

Speaking of copying solos, I think that is a great way to get ideas, and to "steep yourself" in the playing of someone you like. It's fun too. I cant think of any great blues, jazz, or rock guitarists who did not do this (yes I'm sure there are some...) Jimmy Page knew Chuck Berry note-for-note. George Benson knew Wes Montgomery note for note. Wes Montgomery knew Charlie Christian note-for-note. BB King copied someone-probably Robert Johnson or someone.

Get yourself some slow-downer software (I've used Transcribe!, Slowdowner Gold), pick a song/solo and get to work!

Regarding scales, as a jazz player, for improvising, for me it has been essential to know all the modes of the major and melodic minor scales, and a couple of harmonic minor scales (Only two are really useful for what I play), and how they relate to chords. (There are a couple of scales that dont yield modes-whole tone and diminished, that are also used) In fact, you can think of a given scale and chord as different aspects of the same thing. (When you "harmonize" a scale you get a sequence of chords, etc). One perspective that helps is that the modes of a given scale are really just the same sequence of notes, but in different harmonic context; i.e, over different chords. I think a good book as a reference is great for this, though it can be found on the internet too, but in bits and pieces so you need to know what to look for. I had book that was great but was not able to see it in search. Cant remember the name.

I will say that I think most of this is WAY beyond what you need for basic rock and blues though, unless you want to sound hip, jazzy, modern, or something. There are exceptions-Yngvie Malmsteen is all about harmonic minor, 1st and 5th mode. But what he does is very limited and narrow application. Many great jazz players did not know or think like this either, but it is in their playing.

For rock and blues, it's more about "licks" than scales. The pentatonic scale can go a long way; maybe all you need. I note that pentatonic minor and major comes from the major scale, with a few notes left out.

I also agree that a good teacher can really help. As benb says, can save you a lot of trial and error, correct bad technique habits, as well as pointing the way.

One more thing (then maybe I'll shut up)-a danger with too much focus on scales is that you sound like you are playing scales when you improvise. I've certainly fallen into that trap. It's a common criticism of guitarists.

[marciero]

...
So there must be something about the order of the notes to make them sound good, and I'd like to understand that order :)
...


Man-you really hit it on the head here! I'm still trying to do this!

[Bob Ross]

I typically learn more in one lesson with my teacher then I have in all the videos I've watched. For the most part the videos just gloss over tons and tons of stuff and never explain anything fully.

^^^This. QFT.


You like hearing stuff in E minor pentatonic because we're all conditioned to like it from rock/blues.

Moreover, the pentatonic scale is kind of a "no-fail" pitch collection because every note harmonizes with any other note from the collection in a consonant fashion, and we're all conditioned to recognize & like this consonance from the past thousand years of music, regardless of genre.

I suspect the reason MattTuck's E minor improvisations sound "totally unmusical" has more to do with lines, phrases and motifs (or lack therof) than it does pitch selection or ordering.

[benb]

I don't think you can intellectualize learning how to play guitar, even if you are intellectual. I think you have to just go out there and do it.


This resonates with me.. I'm the type to try and intellectualize just about everything but it doesn't really work for music.

I took a college level music history class in college as an elective my senior year as I had a bunch of free credits.. it was really really hard without practical experience, and that was about as intellectual as it got. I had to work real hard to get a B in that class and I never really "got it" since I wasn't playing anything.

I got this book recently (I never found a book I don't want to buy) and it's pretty good:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CLNXGH8/ref=oh_aui_d_detailpage_o03_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's quite good but I know I'm not really going to "get it" if I just read/study it.. I'll have to keep coming back to it as I actually learn/play that stuff.

[fuzzalow]

Moreover, the pentatonic scale is kind of a "no-fail" pitch collection because every note harmonizes with any other note from the collection in a consonant fashion, and we're all conditioned to recognize & like this consonance from the past thousand years of music, regardless of genre.

I'll see your QFT and raise you a QFT on ^.

Plus the pentatonic noodler will play all riffs, runs and emotive twitches to always resolve to the root. Which is the musical equivalent of baby talk. Um, kinda like how I play the guitar myself. The only thing better than hearing me play is not hearing me play.

[redir]

All you need to know is the pentatonic scale, just 5 notes, how easy is that? :D

For real though it's a great place to start. Then when you throw in the relative minors you are now doing 7 note scales and so on.

Here's a pretty good article on learning the pentatonic box positions on a guitar.

http://www.guitarhabits.com/the-5-major-pentatonic-scale-shapes-positions/

[OtayBW]

PM me and I will send you the music for John Cage's "4'33".

[MattTuck]

I suspect the reason MattTuck's E minor improvisations sound "totally unmusical" has more to do with lines, phrases and motifs (or lack therof) than it does pitch selection or ordering.

Yeah, you're probably right, since I don't know what lines, phrases or motifs are. :hello:


Also, nice try Otay, with the John Cage reference. I did a project on John Cage in high school, and am familiar with this seminal composition.

[OtayBW]

^ Aw Shucks!

[Repack Rider]

I have been playing in bar bands for decades. I recently took up the challenge of teaching guitar to a 22-y.o.

He is actually past his learning window, and struggles with basic concepts. But as I try to explain how I do stuff I have done for 50 years, I realize much of what I know is instinctive, the result of holding the instrument for uncounted hours.

Best advice for learning, pick up the guitar and don't put it down.

I told the kid that if I see him play a bar chord, I will break his index finger. I'm a rocker, the only six-string chord I ever play is an open E-minor.

[OtayBW]

I have been playing in bar bands for decades. I recently took up the challenge of teaching guitar to a 22-y.o.

He is actually past his learning window, and struggles with basic concepts. But as I try to explain how I do stuff I have done for 50 years, I realize much of what I know is instinctive, the result of holding the instrument for uncounted hours.

Best advice for learning, pick up the guitar and don't put it down.

I told the kid that if I see him play a bar chord, I will break his index finger. I'm a rocker, the only six-string chord I ever play is an open E-minor.
Well, I have to say that this is both some of the best advice I've heard, and also some of the worst - IMNSHO. I'll let y'all figure out which is which...:D

[Ray]

Well, I have to say that this is both some of the best advice I've heard, and also some of the worst - IMNSHO. I'll let y'all figure out which is which...:D

I feel the same way, but I'm not good enough to criticize someone who's been gigging all his life, so I'll just say that FOR ME, some rhythm parts work better with bar chords, and some without. But you definitely have to play a TON to get good. I played a ton for a few years in my youth and I never really got good - just didn't have the ear or the talent, but I got way better than I've ever been since. I occasionally played out with pickup bands and a little two-guitar duo (the pickup bands were better - playing with a good rhythm section behind you is almost as good as sex - and got paid in the occasional beer and pizza. But it was some of the most fun I've ever had, so I felt like I should have been paying THEM in beer and pizza...

FWIW, I took it up, self-taught, when I was about 18 and started getting into it enough in the next few years that I finally decided to take a few lessons, probably when I was about 21, to fill in some gaps. It was enormously helpful - learned enough theory to understand the context of what I was doing a lot better, which allowed me to stretch a bit further, and learned some exercises that really improved my dexterity. I don't think you absolutely have to have lessons or know theory, but it sure doesn't hurt. And in my case, it helped quite a bit. Probably only took 8-10 lessons, but really useful... I've been playing damn near 40 years now, with long gaps, and I still mostly suck. But I can still entertain the hell out of myself and occasionally a family member or two...

-Ray

[OtayBW]

... But I can still entertain the hell out of myself and occasionally a family member or two...
-RayWell, sounds like you've got it about right! [emoji3]


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Ray]

I told the kid that if I see him play a bar chord, I will break his index finger. I'm a rocker, the only six-string chord I ever play is an open E-minor.

Out of curiosity, are you allowing for all of the amazing riffs Keith Richards came up with out of barring his open-G tuning because he only used five strings? If you're gonna try to break Keef's index finger because he plays bar chords, you gotta come through me to do it... ;)

-Ray

[rounder]

Sure you can. Is just another approach. There are many ways of knowing, and can depend on learning style. Knowing all the scales and modes gives me a context for understanding what is happening harmonically, for example, when I copy solos of other players. That's just the way I learn. If I understand the context and can relate them to scales I know then I can use those ideas in my own playing.

Speaking of copying solos, I think that is a great way to get ideas, and to "steep yourself" in the playing of someone you like. It's fun too. I cant think of any great blues, jazz, or rock guitarists who did not do this (yes I'm sure there are some...) Jimmy Page knew Chuck Berry note-for-note. George Benson knew Wes Montgomery note for note. Wes Montgomery knew Charlie Christian note-for-note. BB King copied someone-probably Robert Johnson or someone.

Get yourself some slow-downer software (I've used Transcribe!, Slowdowner Gold), pick a song/solo and get to work!

Regarding scales, as a jazz player, for improvising, for me it has been essential to know all the modes of the major and melodic minor scales, and a couple of harmonic minor scales (Only two are really useful for what I play), and how they relate to chords. (There are a couple of scales that dont yield modes-whole tone and diminished, that are also used) In fact, you can think of a given scale and chord as different aspects of the same thing. (When you "harmonize" a scale you get a sequence of chords, etc). One perspective that helps is that the modes of a given scale are really just the same sequence of notes, but in different harmonic context; i.e, over different chords. I think a good book as a reference is great for this, though it can be found on the internet too, but in bits and pieces so you need to know what to look for. I had book that was great but was not able to see it in search. Cant remember the name.

I will say that I think most of this is WAY beyond what you need for basic rock and blues though, unless you want to sound hip, jazzy, modern, or something. There are exceptions-Yngvie Malmsteen is all about harmonic minor, 1st and 5th mode. But what he does is very limited and narrow application. Many great jazz players did not know or think like this either, but it is in their playing.

For rock and blues, it's more about "licks" than scales. The pentatonic scale can go a long way; maybe all you need. I note that pentatonic minor and major comes from the major scale, with a few notes left out.

I also agree that a good teacher can really help. As benb says, can save you a lot of trial and error, correct bad technique habits, as well as pointing the way.

One more thing (then maybe I'll shut up)-a danger with too much focus on scales is that you sound like you are playing scales when you improvise. I've certainly fallen into that trap. It's a common criticism of guitarists.

Great discussion. Thanks.

[Repack Rider]

Out of curiosity, are you allowing for all of the amazing riffs Keith Richards came up with out of barring his open-G tuning because he only used five strings? If you're gonna try to break Keef's index finger because he plays bar chords, you gotta come through me to do it...

Keef can actually play a standard guitar should he care to. I don't use any open tunings and have no opinion on them.

Instead of bar chords, I cover the E and A strings with my thumb. You know, like Eric Clapton does. I tried to cop a Clapton lick, and I found out the only way to play it was with the thumb on the E string.

[Ray]

Keef can actually play a standard guitar should he care to. I don't use any open tunings and have no opinion on them.

Instead of bar chords, I cover the E and A strings with my thumb. You know, like Eric Clapton does. I tried to cop a Clapton lick, and I found out the only way to play it was with the thumb on the E string.

Yeah, Keith can play standard tuning really well too. But damn near ALL of his really classic riffs come out of the open G, which results in the two largest strings tuned to the same note, so he took the sixth off and had a number of custom 5 string guitars made. I don't have those resources so just end up with two G strings on the bottom end. I used to try to figure out some of his licks and just couldn't really nail them down until someone showed me that tuning. And then they get super-easy - it's just a bar chord that moves up and down the neck with a couple of fingers to play suspensions off of the bar. Suddenly Keith rhythm parts just popped right to life. I'm not much of a player, but even I could make them sound pretty good.

Edit - my bad. Actually the 4th and 6th strings are tuned to the same "D", not the 5th and 6th tuned to a G. But the 6th is still redundant...

I've never done more than play around a little bit with wrapping my thumb over the neck to the E. The guy who was insane with that approach was Richie Havens, who had such big hands he'd often play the bottom (largest) 3-4 strings in a partial bar with his thumb and then fret the 2-3 highest strings with his fingers. He used a lot of open tunings too. I never really learned them other than the Keith open G and a couple of blues tunings to play around with for slide playing...

-Ray

[MattTuck]

Finally stumbled into an improvisation that actually sounds half way decent to the ear.

[Ray]

Just remembered another good reason for even pikers like me, who aren't very good and don't expect to ever be all that good, to learn some basic music theory. It gives you the ability to transpose songs into different keys to either find chords you can play more easily and/or to be able to sing it more comfortably.

Even after all these years playing, I still suck at playing B minor or F# minor when I'm on an acoustic playing open chords. On an electric, where I may be playing bar chords anyway, no problem, but to suddenly move into bar position from open position chords just has never come smoothly to me on an acoustic with tougher strings and higher action, even with lots of practice. Also I'm a terrible singer with approximately no range, so the combination of being able to transpose and/or use the capo to change keys can bring a song into a neighborhood where I can merely sound bad singing it, rather than so awful it's not even fun to try...

That's a practical advantage to knowing just a bit of theory, even and maybe especially for the less talented among us...

-Ray

[benb]

Bah.. my guitar continues to be a lot of fun and a PITA at the same time. Just discovered the 6th string at the 10th fret buzzing this weekend. I don't play that much up that high yet but was playing some scales and noticed it. Seems like since it is just that one string it may just be an issue with the fret. If I bend the note upwards it doesn't buzz.

I am already taking the thing in tomorrow or maybe today to have the electronics replaced/fixed as my pickup and/or preamp doesn't work correctly. Second time I've taken it in for the electronics, this will be the 4th time I've taken it for work since I bought it last july!

I may buy a used electric guitar so I have something else to play and can just let my acoustic guitar sit and wait to be serviced. The guy whose going to work on it has a ton of used electric guitars in his shop that seem to be setup great.

[redir]

Bah.. my guitar continues to be a lot of fun and a PITA at the same time. Just discovered the 6th string at the 10th fret buzzing this weekend. I don't play that much up that high yet but was playing some scales and noticed it. Seems like since it is just that one string it may just be an issue with the fret. If I bend the note upwards it doesn't buzz.

I am already taking the thing in tomorrow or maybe today to have the electronics replaced/fixed as my pickup and/or preamp doesn't work correctly. Second time I've taken it in for the electronics, this will be the 4th time I've taken it for work since I bought it last july!

I may buy a used electric guitar so I have something else to play and can just let my acoustic guitar sit and wait to be serviced. The guy whose going to work on it has a ton of used electric guitars in his shop that seem to be setup great.

Certainly does sound like a high spot on a fret. Use something like the handle of a screwdriver or a wooden dowel and push down on the fret and watch real close for movement. If it doesn't move then the fix is to whap it with a hammer and rest the fret. If it shows movement then you will need to flood some very thin cyanoacrylate glue in there and clamp it till its set.

[benb]

Certainly does sound like a high spot on a fret. Use something like the handle of a screwdriver or a wooden dowel and push down on the fret and watch real close for movement. If it doesn't move then the fix is to whap it with a hammer and rest the fret. If it shows movement then you will need to flood some very thin cyanoacrylate glue in there and clamp it till its set.

I got it fixed today when I took the guitar in to get the electronics looked at again. Similar to what you just mentioned but with a specialist tool. The problem is definitely gone.

Also picked up the Mexican Telecaster that I had played last week. Played with it again, plugged it in, checked the serial # and it turned out to be a 2016 guitar. $375 with a bag, original $600 without a bag. Setup seems to be very good, somebody got it setup well and gave up on it real fast as it looks brand new. Way less wear and tear than my acoustic which I got in July 2016 and have played just about every day since I got it.

[MattTuck]

Need to tap your collective guitar experiences...

I have not changed the strings on my acoustic that I bought back in August. On the recommendation of my teacher (because he said they last a long time) I just bought a set of Elixer nanoweb strings. The guy at the guitar shop told me they suck. And he recommended Curt Mangan.

Assuming I am now going to change my strings every few months, as opposed to waiting almost a year, what should I put on next?

[fuzzalow]

Dontworryboudit.

They are guitar strings. They cost what, I dunno, $5 a pack? Why, in the insight of some guy at a guitar shop (Guitar Center? HaHahaha...) one brand "sucks" over another is a mystery to me...and probably to him too. When I play, if it sucks, it isn't the strings. ;)

Try sets out. When you find a set you can live with, buy 'em in the ten-pack so now a set'll cost you $2.99.

[OtayBW]

Can't give you any hard advice except to suggest that you pay attention to finding which string gauge works (and sounds) best for you. Lots of good strings out there. You just have to find which sounds/feels good and lasts.

GL.

[redir]

I guess everything is an opinion but the Nano's definitely don't suck. I like them a bit better then the Polyweb's. My favorite coated string is D'addario EXP's but again you have to keep trying till you find what works for you AND more importantly your guitar. That includes the string gauge and alloy type as well as well.

I've never heard of Curt Mangan strings before.

[benb]

I hate the Elixirs.. I've never bought them but I've tried them on new Taylors in the store since they ship with them.. it feels like they are coated in grease to the point they're slippery.

I've generally been happiest with D'Addario Phosphor Bronze uncoated.. they have them in coated as well. The D'Addario coating doesn't bother me like Elixirs but it doesn't seem worth the extra money either.

I've got some Martin strings to try out too. Learn how to change your strings, it's pretty easy, and then you can just try out whatever suits your fancy.

I am getting real close to getting rid of my Alvarez Acoustic and getting something else. The thing just frustrates me more and more the better I get and the more feel I have. Especially compared to my Telecaster which has been a revelation in terms of how much better built it is.

The Soft-V neck on the Alvarez is driving me nuts, but I'm starting to wonder if the fretwork on the Alvarez is also bad. I'd had to have a couple frets fixed that were popping out but I'm also now wondering if all the frets were filed down excessively low at the factory to make up for the other mistakes. My Telecaster does not have the higher frets they have as an option, and the Alvarez frets are really noticeably lower to my fingers.. I think it is making me put more effort into fretting.

I played a Martin 00-18 yesterday.. sure it costs 4X what my Alvarez did but even with the strings setup high it was way way way easier on my fretting hand. Interestingly the sound didn't blow me away vs the Alvarez though.

[MattTuck]

I guess everything is an opinion but the Nano's definitely don't suck. I like them a bit better then the Polyweb's. My favorite coated string is D'addario EXP's but again you have to keep trying till you find what works for you AND more importantly your guitar. That includes the string gauge and alloy type as well as well.

I've never heard of Curt Mangan strings before.

His feeling was that any coated string is going to have diminished tone due to the coating, and the increase in price was not worth it given the loss of tone. Curt Mangan he said is a small outfit, USA made.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I guess everything is an opinion but the Nano's definitely don't suck.

That's my opinion as well. I've tried a few different coated strings and have stuck with the Phos-Bronze Nanos since they were introduced. Before Elixir I used Gibson and Martin phos-bronze. I have experienced some loss of definition with other coated strings, but not the Nanos. The tone does not diminish nearly as rapidly as non-coated strings. Aka, they last long enough to negate the extra cost. And they don't make my hand smell like pennies.

His feeling was that any coated string is going to have diminished tone due to the coating, and the increase in price was not worth it given the loss of tone. Curt Mangan he said is a small outfit, USA made.

This is the equivalent of the guy at the bike shop telling you that Gatorskins or GP4000s or whatever are the best tires in the world. Everyone has an opinion, man. Bikes and riders are different and guitars and pickers are different in much the same way.

[redir]

I hate the Elixirs.. I've never bought them but I've tried them on new Taylors in the store since they ship with them.. it feels like they are coated in grease to the point they're slippery.

I've generally been happiest with D'Addario Phosphor Bronze uncoated.. they have them in coated as well. The D'Addario coating doesn't bother me like Elixirs but it doesn't seem worth the extra money either.

I've got some Martin strings to try out too. Learn how to change your strings, it's pretty easy, and then you can just try out whatever suits your fancy.

I am getting real close to getting rid of my Alvarez Acoustic and getting something else. The thing just frustrates me more and more the better I get and the more feel I have. Especially compared to my Telecaster which has been a revelation in terms of how much better built it is.

The Soft-V neck on the Alvarez is driving me nuts, but I'm starting to wonder if the fretwork on the Alvarez is also bad. I'd had to have a couple frets fixed that were popping out but I'm also now wondering if all the frets were filed down excessively low at the factory to make up for the other mistakes. My Telecaster does not have the higher frets they have as an option, and the Alvarez frets are really noticeably lower to my fingers.. I think it is making me put more effort into fretting.

I played a Martin 00-18 yesterday.. sure it costs 4X what my Alvarez did but even with the strings setup high it was way way way easier on my fretting hand. Interestingly the sound didn't blow me away vs the Alvarez though.

I think you are talking about the polywebs not the nano. Unless I've got the two mixed up. I would agree the polys are weird. They literally have like a cocoon web over the whole string. Some people love it though. The Nano's are more like the EXP's where the bronze wrap is coated prior to wrapping it around the core, more analogous to a spray coating, and as such feel more like normal strings.

[MattTuck]

This is the equivalent of the guy at the bike shop telling you that Gatorskins or GP4000s or whatever are the best tires in the world. Everyone has an opinion, man. Bikes and riders are different and guitars and pickers are different in much the same way.

Which is why I wanted to get a second opinion from y'all. I honestly don't even know what strings I have on the guitar now. It is a second hand Breedlove, their entry level series. So I'll try these, and then probably try that Curt Mangan company and see if I can tell any difference.

I'm still very beginner level, so I don't think it is the strings holding me back :)

[rounder]

I have been using Elexir nanowebs for years and like them. I previously used Martin Marquis for years and liked them. I believe that the Elexirs are not as bright as the Martins when new, but the Elexirs hold their tone for a long time. I do not notice that the strings are slippery.

I am just a casual player but have been playing for a long time, so take it for what it is worth. But, I have a friend who is a pro and he uses Elexirs on his acoustic guitars.

There are a lot of string types and many people like different ones. To me, I think a bigger issue is what gauge strings to use (light, medium, etc).

Good luck.

[froze]

The choice of strings depends on the color of sound you want and the feel, and each brand has different colored sounding and different feeling strings, and of course each brand will have their own coloring and feel. There a quite a few great strings like the ones already mentioned but also D'Addario, their warm sounding Gypsy Jazz strings are great sounding. Another great brand is Ernie Ball, another company with a range of color. So depending on your taste or if you switch to a different type of music that has a different type of sound you may have to restring to get the sound you want if you don't have more than one guitar. And there is experimentation you have to do to find what type of string you like not only for sound but how they feel to you, as you get more experienced the feel factor will change.

[MattTuck]

bumping this post.

I got a strap for my guitar for christmas. So I've been walking around the apartment like a troubadour. My wife thinks it is great, obviously. ;)

The strumming and fretting is still a little off, but I think that is just muscle memory that will come along over time.

[paredown]

When I played regularly, I really enjoyed the Alvarez I had. They called it the "folk" body - which is essentially a grand auditorium cutaway. Smaller body than the traditional dreadnought which was more comfortable for me. Mine was a Koa wood top and sides, and had a piezo pickup for acoustic electric options. I think I paid around $400 for it. Played as good or better than most of the entry level Martin/Taylor instruments I tested out. ....

My wife surprised me with a new guitar for my road sign birthday last year, and got a friend who is a pro musician to go to the store to pick it out--he picked what sounds like Ibanez version of your Alverez off the rack--played and sounded better than anything else under ~$500

[cmbicycles]

bumping this post.

I got a strap for my guitar for christmas. So I've been walking around the apartment like a troubadour. My wife thinks it is great, obviously. ;)

The strumming and fretting is still a little off, but I think that is just muscle memory that will come along over time.

Keep it up and soon you can sit out in front of your apartment with the case open and make some money. I had a couple elementary students do that with their recorder, they were so proud of themselves, I thought it was great.

It's definitely nice to have a wife that supports healthy habits like music/guitars and bikes... now when I pull out my djembe to practice that gets limited support in the house, drums get good garage level support. ;)

[benb]

No new guitars here but I got some guitar related stuff for Xmas.. got a nice 30" high Fender bar stool for my practice area. Got some new cables and picks and stuff like that too.

I also finally got the time to finish up a custom height bookshelf type piece I've been working on for months. It holds my amp off the floor at an ideal height for best sound for playing and it's got a shelf sized for my books & sheet music and a second smaller shelf for tools/supplies, etc.. I need to do a final sanding and put a finish on it in the spring but in terms of utility it's ready to go.

Mostly playing electric guitar lately.. just the best move for me given the teacher I work with. I did learn a bunch of Xmas stuff this year and played it on my acoustic though. But that is definitely done for now! I did participate in a group acoustic lesson/jam session thing for about 3 months this fall though, good times.

I need to figure out the right balance.. I've been playing a lot of guitar and not much biking since the weather got cold.. my guitar playing definitely goes WAY better when my arms/hands are not beat up from biking. I may be needing to do way more pure road riding this year and less gravel/MTB type stuff.

Not sure exactly when/why/how the transition happened but I play standing an awful lot of the time now. If anything I play better standing these days, especially if I play up the neck. Good antidote to all the desk sitting & work and being bent over biking.

[OtayBW]

Got a Martin tenor uke recently. Stringing it to Low G to play some swing.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[drewski]

Bought daugher a Seagull slim S6. For $400.00 these guitars sound great and are pretty easy to play. She has been playing a Classical guitar on loan from school her up in Durham, NC.

Nice full sound and made in Canada. I have a had a Seagull S6 original for about 14 years and have enjoyed it very much.

[Rpoole8537]

+1 on D’addario. Phosphor Bronze. Elixers came on my Taylor and they sounded okay amped, but I like the ring of new phosphor bronze. Setup is very important on any guitar, just like a bike. Complete any setup with your favorite strings! My two cents.

[old_fat_and_slow]

His feeling was that any coated string is going to have diminished tone due to the coating, and the increase in price was not worth it given the loss of tone. Curt Mangan he said is a small outfit, USA made.

What a load of "bovine scatology". I've used Elixer nanoweb strings on my acoustics for years now. I love the tone they give. Plus I hate changing strings. Elixer strings last waaaaaayyyyy longer than standard uncoated strings. Some people love 'em, some don't. You'll have to test drive them yourself to see if you like them and they last long enough for you.

As far as uncoated strings, I always liked D'Addario and GHS. They sound wonderful when you first put 'em on, but quickly lose their magic. I've been playing acoustics for more than thirty years (not that that makes me an expert) but I've never heard of Curt Mangan strings.

Try out whatever you like. Guitar strings are pretty cheap compared to $15K bikes.

[cmbicycles]

I tried Elixirs a while back, they did last a while, but not significant to my recollection. They were slippery especially at first, and looked hairy when the coating wore down. I don't recall noticing much difference in tone to other strings I used at the time... John pearse, martin, etc. I use Martin SP phosphor strings on my acoustics now... probably more out of habit at this point. Medium gauge on my nicer guitar, medium light on my middle guitar, and light on my cheap Yamaha that lives in my music "classroom".

[benb]

I used the Nanoweb Phosphor Bronze Elixirs for quite a few months out of the year this year as I bought a Taylor. I played it for a month or two on the first set of strings and they were a bit damaged by the time I'd worked on the saddle + nut and I put another set on and played those for at least 4 months.

I still say those are kind of slippery.. depends on what I'm playing. The slippery feeling is nice playing something with a lot of slides. Not as nice if you're bending strings or maybe playing really fast chords. I feel like the coating makes them want to slip out from under your fingers a little more than other strings.

I am still up in the air on whether or not they sound good. I'm going to try a few other types of strings. I have Martins on my Taylor right now.. they definitely are different. Not least because the low E and the G are a little bit higher gauge.

Mostly I think I'm still kind of down on the Elixirs cause they're so expensive. And I kind of feel like they don't sound that great for their whole lifetime. It's more like they gradually sound worse and worse whereas regular strings degrade very quickly and abruptly when they start to die. It's really easy to tell when most strings are toast whereas it's harder with Elixirs.

But in any case it's the price. They're $12-13 a set right now on Amazon. I was going to buy some for 2018 on Black Friday but couldn't really find a good deal. I ended up buying D'addario strings on black friday for less than $3 each. I don't mind changing strings the Elixirs are not worth 4X more for me, and the Elixirs at 6 weeks definitely don't sound better than brand new regular strings.