I'll Share the Road When You Follow the Rules... till then, I'll... run you over?

[Dead Man]

http://road.cc/content/news/196127-ohio-driver-sends-shocking-4th-july-parade-message-cyclists

Classy.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cmi2smxWAAAxcGk.jpg

[Neves]

Making my home town proud. You gotta wonder what those little girls think of this.

[gone]

I'm usually not a fan of social media witch hunts but I hope this guy is the victim of one, along with the parade organizers.

Jackass.

[Hilltopperny]

Wow...:butt:

[johnmdesigner]

With the current level of hatred being openly expressed in our country this is not surprising.

I grew up 50 miles away from Columbus. I escaped in 1981 and never went back.
Some of those children will get out like I did and discover another world.

On another note, a man in Brooklyn was apparently knocked off his bike and then intentionally run over by a hit and run driver. The NYPD responded by parking their cars in the bike lane and ticketing cyclists that ran the red light.

It's not just Ohio. It's everywhere.

[54ny77]

karma will get that piece of youknowwhat.

[adrien]

I can't help but wonder what the outrage would be with a different demographic targeted.

At least he got his bike out, which I would venture is the most sunlight it's seen in a long time.

I had a long ride Saturday. Way more aggressive drivers than usual. I think the hate being thrown around this country has been extended by some to mean anyone not exactly like you.

Sigh.

[ik2280]

A prominent NYC cyclist posted this on her FB earlier today.

A shocking float, but then again, maybe it's not so surprising?

[AllanVarcoe]

That blows my mind that that was allowed.
Makes me glad I'm on the Left Coast!

[kfreytag]

Living on the Left Coast and (essentially) in Berkeley, I've got my share of crazies on other end of the spectrum. I think about our local kooky parades, however, and there's no long-term psychological damage being done to the kids.

[johnmdesigner]

Kinda messed up for a college town. Then again looking at the houses in the background I think this is German Village on the other side of downtown from the university.
Columbus used to be a popular trafficking area for drugs in the Midwest owing to the excellent highway system. They used to have an appalling murder rate. And when I was growing up the downtown area was a wonderful place for a kid from the country to visit.

[Jgrooms]

I don't believe that 'float' would have made it past me without incident.


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[Tarzan59]

See it every day. Hatred from motorists. One thing we can do as two wheelers is be ambassadors of the sport. Hating back and being obnoxious will only encourage the hatred . . .

[ripvanrando]

I went into a bar at 1 am on my recent TransAM bike race to get water and a drunk patron threatened to run me over with his truck. He was very, very serious. Fortunately another drunk was a cyclist and we talked him out of it.

I wonder how it would have went down if I offered to pull a Sig P938 out on him? To be clear, I considered his aggressive threats to be a direct assault.

I used the first amendment instead. He was a drunk nutcase. I hate riding from 10 pm - 2 am on Friday and Saturday nights in certain areas.

This float is disgusting.

[bikinchris]

Yes, this float is disgusting. As supposedly adult, law abiding citizens, how do we deal with the underlying problem?

[stephenmarklay]

I was in Columbus once. I don’t think i will go back.

[Sierra]

This is disgusting.

With all of its many challenges and problems, I'm so glad I live in California.

[Neves]

That is Victorian Village, which is still close to downtown but on the other side. Its a big small town with all that goes along with it. My wife is a nurse in a hospital that gets a lot of people with issues other than medical. More or less I like the city and the people who live here. Unfortunately ass wholes live everywhere.

[cadence90]

Wow.
One has to be really full of hate to rig that up.
And be really full of idiocy to allow that into a parade.

[echelon_john]

Write to the mayor. Let him know you're canceling your visit/event/offsite. Tell him why. Other than getting your friend the cop to run the plate and doing a little friendly visit probably not much to do.

[rzthomas]

This float is terrible and it's incredibly tasteless, but the parade is the Doo Dah Parade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doo_Dah_Parade), which is all about satire and supposed to rankle the spectators.

But then again, maybe the float driver wasn't being farcical (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2016/07/05/Doo_Dah_Bike_controversy.html).

"Girves said the man driving the float also was using duct tape to cover sharrows -- pavement markings that tell bicyclists where to ride and car drivers that bikes will be on the road -- along the parade route."

[brendonk]

I live just north of Columbus and watched the local news coverage of the parade. Fortunately this fool didn't make it on the air. Didn't know about the entry until seeing it here. Certainly an email to the organizers is in order. Satire or not this is completely inexcuseable. I've run into my share of idiot drivers around here but when I think about my ride this morning all the drivers were very patient and gave me lots of room.

[sam.g]

I was just run off the road by an inattentive driver in Panama City Fl. I swerved off the road and crashed to avoid being run over, but still went down hard at 20+ mph. I have a broken collar bone, two cracked ribs and a concussion, surgery is set for Thursday.

Luckily the driver stopped and called 911, the Florida Hwy Patrol officer spoke with me while in the ambulance but I really can't remember. When I called to get an accident report the officer said he wasn't filing one since there was no damage to the car, as such it would be "he said, she said" so he couldn't establish fault. I protested stating the obvious that I would never ntentionally ride off the road at speed, however he said there was nothing he could do. The conversation went south when I asked if I allowed myself to be run over, if he would file an accident report.

Basically the de facto ruling is that the cyclist is at fault unless there's damage to th car, forget any damage to my bike and rider. Further protest went nowhere except to speak to his supervisor.

The problem is also with law enforcement and countrywide.

Sam in Cincy

[johnmdesigner]

Homicide by vehicle is pretty much legal here in NYC.
Not drunk, not on drugs, hit a pedestrian in the crosswalk who has the walk light, stay at the scene of the accident.
"Oh sorry, didn't see them."

Free get out of jail card.

Sadly that is law enforcement in America. Chasing after terrorists ghosts is way sexier than enforcing traffic laws. I haven't seen a car stopped for a moving violation in my neighborhood for weeks.

[sailorboy]

this is what extra eggs and tomatoes were meant for. Would've been an easy shot with his window open as well.

[54ny77]

agreed. or other things not worth mentioning.

this sickens me.

this is what extra eggs and tomatoes were meant
for. Would've been an easy shot with his window open as well.

[thwart]

this is what extra eggs and tomatoes were meant for. Would've been an easy shot with his window open as well.

Idiot's probably carrying... and with his anger and p*ss-poor judgment would possibly shoot into the crowd.

[Seramount]

dooooosh....!

the guy's ride is a total hoopty...get a job, get a real car.

[alexsteinker]

This is my home town and I was at the parade. I did not see this unfortunately but at little back story on the parade. Its the Annual "DooDah" Parade.

"The Doo Dah Parade is about Freedom of Speech, through humor. Put your own humorous spin on an issue and march in irreverence on the Fourth of July in the Short North Arts District"

There are tons of other ridiculous floats, but this guy who is clearly advocating and promoting violent actions towards cyclists is a huge D-B*G.

He was also using duct tape to tape over Sharrows that were along the parade route.

It's lame and I'm embarrassed to even see this making rounds on the internet because that parade is so awesome and so much fun and columbus has amazing cycling infrastructure and is growing monthly. :crap:

[johnmdesigner]

Mz Doo Dah liked it...

“It’s freedom of speech. If it stirred up reaction, I guess he had a good political message,” said Deb Roberts, Mz Doo Dah. “I think it was satire against those bicyclists who don’t obey traffic laws.”

Roberts said she doesn’t know who designed or drove the float because Doo Dah doesn’t require registration.

[unterhausen]

funny thing about running stop signs -- everyone does it here, especially the cops. And right turn on red after stop is shortened to right turn on red, they just go, hope your brakes work. But they still complain about bikes not following the rules.

I kinda wish I hadn't seen pictures of this guy

[johnmdesigner]

http://www.doodahparade.com/

Scroll down and you will find that the organizer has stupidly posted her phone number. Have at it.

[Tickdoc]

What of it was a Harley on the hood?

[oldpotatoe]

I went into a bar at 1 am on my recent TransAM bike race to get water and a drunk patron threatened to run me over with his truck. He was very, very serious. Fortunately another drunk was a cyclist and we talked him out of it.

I wonder how it would have went down if I offered to pull a Sig P938 out on him? To be clear, I considered his aggressive threats to be a direct assault.

I used the first amendment instead. He was a drunk nutcase. I hate riding from 10 pm - 2 am on Friday and Saturday nights in certain areas.

This float is disgusting.

Easy, you would have been in jail..altho I agree with you..gotta be a reason why the guy hates people on bikes..

[johnmdesigner]

What of it was a Harley on the hood?

Because his motorcycle riding neighbors would go to his house and physically intimidate him.
Low hanging fruit is no threat.

[CampyorBust]

Disgusted but not surprised by the sentiment, and nope not surprised by the stupidity it takes to do something like this either. Ummm could this be considered a threat? No room for misunderstanding that for sure, the genius even has a written statement of intent!

Carpet on the hood and painters tape to protect the paint :rolleyes:, me thinks he likes that Blazer a little too much to actually carry out his threat.

[peanutgallery]

This is why I ride on dirt only these days. The average American is a maroon. Ohio state fans...it should go without saying

[Sierra]

So, has anybody figured out what this troglodyte's name is?

[Louis]

So, has anybody figured out what this troglodyte's name is?

G. Imad!ck

[CampyorBust]

G. Imad!ck

LOL there are two ways of reading that, the way I read it ... well lets just say Bubba would be involved.:D

1. Gee I am a ...
2. Give him a ...

[Ti Designs]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement, has anyone else even considered the statement? "I'll share the road when you follow the rules". In my state (confusion) a bicycle is a vehicle and as such is bound by the same rules as other traffic. There are now bike lanes to protect cyclists, new laws for their increased safety, yet for all of these rights they still don't follow the laws. That makes cyclists unpredictable, most drivers treat them as wild animals out on the road 'cause they have no idea where they're gonna turn. As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers. If a cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by crossing traffic, it should be 100% the cyclist's fault.

I'll take that all back if anyone can point out where in the law cyclists are granted immunity to traffic laws...

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.

[Sierra]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement, has anyone else even considered the statement? "I'll share the road when you follow the rules". In my state (confusion) a bicycle is a vehicle and as such is bound by the same rules as other traffic. There are now bike lanes to protect cyclists, new laws for their increased safety, yet for all of these rights they still don't follow the laws. That makes cyclists unpredictable, most drivers treat them as wild animals out on the road 'cause they have no idea where they're gonna turn. As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers. If a cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by crossing traffic, it should be 100% the cyclist's fault.

I'll take that all back if anyone can point out where in the law cyclists are granted immunity to traffic laws...

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.


Pardon me, but that is a bunch of malarkey. If this guy had a legitimate argument to begin with it was completely overridden by the actual, malicious thrust of his statement, which is that he is within his "rights" to kill a cyclist in retribution for these perceived injustices.

[rwsaunders]

We had a fine gentleman (Tom P_____kas) who as a volunteer journalist for our local community newspaper, wrote an Op Ed piece proclaiming his disgust for having to share "his roads" with Lycra clad cyclists and bragged that his 5,500# SUV would "win" in a confrontation.

I wrote not only to the editor of the newspaper, but to the editor and ownership of the parent publishing company and expressed my disgust that they would allow such a piece to be included in their publication. I also posted the article and my response on the Bike Pittsburgh community message board and members did an outstanding job of sharing their opinions, as well as outing good old Tom. To the publishing company's credit, they published my response and apologized for the message that the Op Ed piece sent to the community.

Tom P_____kas lasted another week with the paper so don't think that your voice can't make a difference. Out that arse in Columbus and let your government officials know that you and your children don't appreciate the message that he's sending and that it's a direct reflection on their leadership.

[1happygirl]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement, has anyone else even considered the statement? "I'll share the road when you follow the rules". In my state (confusion) a bicycle is a vehicle and as such is bound by the same rules as other traffic. There are now bike lanes to protect cyclists, new laws for their increased safety, yet for all of these rights they still don't follow the laws. That makes cyclists unpredictable, most drivers treat them as wild animals out on the road 'cause they have no idea where they're gonna turn. As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers. If a cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by crossing traffic, it should be 100% the cyclist's fault.

I'll take that all back if anyone can point out where in the law cyclists are granted immunity to traffic laws...

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.
Thank you!!!

Ive told this before. Tried to get a good friend into cycling and when they showed up all the cyclists were acting like dooshcanoes. My friend never went back and to this day makes comments about lycra clad lovelies.

Two wrongs don't make right. And the stats show more pedestrians hit and killed every day than cyclists, and it doesn't get any attention. All death is sad but sometimes you calculate your own fate. I 100% support my cycle peeps but ya gotta act right too.

[54ny77]

Did, and I let as many folks I know in & nearby the town as well.

311@columbus.gov

Out that arse in Columbus and let your government officials know that you and your children don't appreciate the message that he's sending and that it's a direct reflection on their leadership.

[Fivethumbs]

I for one am going to take him up on his offer. I am going to follow the rules and now I don't have to worry about him running me over. Yay.

[cadence90]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement....How and where this statement was made are impossible to ignore, though, and those factors taint the statement itself.
I think it's pretty clear that the fellow is not really simply an "equal justice for all, and please, all, follow the law", etc. crusader.

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.I agree, and think that both that driver and Lucas Brunelle and company check both boxes. I don't see much real care for the common good in either case.

[Black Dog]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement, has anyone else even considered the statement? "I'll share the road when you follow the rules". In my state (confusion) a bicycle is a vehicle and as such is bound by the same rules as other traffic. There are now bike lanes to protect cyclists, new laws for their increased safety, yet for all of these rights they still don't follow the laws. That makes cyclists unpredictable, most drivers treat them as wild animals out on the road 'cause they have no idea where they're gonna turn. As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers. If a cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by crossing traffic, it should be 100% the cyclist's fault.

I'll take that all back if anyone can point out where in the law cyclists are granted immunity to traffic laws...

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.

I agree with100% about entitled and ignorant riders. However, the statement made by the the guy In the parade is total BS. Cyclists get yelled at by drivers telling them to follow the rules of the road because they feel unless cyclists follow the Rules all of the time they do not deserve to be there and that drivers should be entitled to enforce the law. The same drivers will roll a stop sign and exceed the speed limit, not signal a lane change or turn all within minutes of their outburst of righteous indignation. Laws only apply to others...do as I say, not as I do...etc. How many times do drivers yell at guys rolling slowly in a tractor out on a country road for taking up a lane a slowing everyone down? All road users need to smarten up, get theirs heads out of their arses and show some consideration and patients. It also would not hurt to remember that lives are at stake when any one uses the roads.

[paredown]

I was just run off the road by an inattentive driver in Panama City Fl. I swerved off the road and crashed to avoid being run over, but still went down hard at 20+ mph. I have a broken collar bone, two cracked ribs and a concussion, surgery is set for Thursday.

Luckily the driver stopped and called 911, the Florida Hwy Patrol officer spoke with me while in the ambulance but I really can't remember. When I called to get an accident report the officer said he wasn't filing one since there was no damage to the car, as such it would be "he said, she said" so he couldn't establish fault. I protested stating the obvious that I would never ntentionally ride off the road at speed, however he said there was nothing he could do. The conversation went south when I asked if I allowed myself to be run over, if he would file an accident report.

Basically the de facto ruling is that the cyclist is at fault unless there's damage to th car, forget any damage to my bike and rider. Further protest went nowhere except to speak to his supervisor.

The problem is also with law enforcement and countrywide.

Sam in Cincy

Jeebus--cop mentality at its worst...

Sorry to hear about the collarbone--heal up fast.

[paredown]

Anyone else struck by the irony that ~70% of motorists consistently exceed posted speed limits, do rolling stops at stop signs, fail to signal lane changes, drive while distracted (texting, phones, stereos etc)?

Let he who is without sin...

Recent study that shows drivers and cyclists break laws at about the same rate:
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-18/survey-finds-bicyclists-and-motorists-ignore-traffic-laws-similar-rates

[AngryScientist]

Everyone is guilty of not following the "rules" sometimes.

the issue is, when cyclists dont "share the road" - motorists get inconvenienced.

when motorists dont "share the road" - cyclists get hurt.

[Jgrooms]

I sometimes wonder what's worse, the militant drivers or the self righteous cyclists who believe this is about 'rules'? If every law, written for autos, was followed by every cyclist, there'd still be a huge problem. That being we are on the road at all. Follow the rules is just a convenient tactic for a strategy of self absorbed anger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fuzzalow]

I was just run off the road by an inattentive driver in Panama City Fl. I swerved off the road and crashed to avoid being run over, but still went down hard at 20+ mph. I have a broken collar bone, two cracked ribs and a concussion, surgery is set for Thursday.

Luckily the driver stopped and called 911, the Florida Hwy Patrol officer spoke with me while in the ambulance but I really can't remember. When I called to get an accident report the officer said he wasn't filing one since there was no damage to the car, as such it would be "he said, she said" so he couldn't establish fault. I protested stating the obvious that I would never ntentionally ride off the road at speed, however he said there was nothing he could do. The conversation went south when I asked if I allowed myself to be run over, if he would file an accident report.

Basically the de facto ruling is that the cyclist is at fault unless there's damage to th car, forget any damage to my bike and rider. Further protest went nowhere except to speak to his supervisor.

The problem is also with law enforcement and countrywide.

Sam in Cincy

This response from the LEO is puzzling and I am not sure is either legal or correct.

FL is a no fault insurance state (30 seconds on Google) which applies to any party involved in accident involving at least any one motor vehicle. Therefore your injury is real and subject to both legal procedure and subsequent claim. There is legal precedent for right-of-way use protections of a public roadway for a bicycle provided that there is no posted prohibition for a bicyclist's use of that roadway.

I don't know particulars pertaining to Florida DMV statute but the fundamental precepts involving safe passage on public thoroughfare do not sound to me like they were interpreted, exercised or enforced correctly by this LEO.

This LEO might have allowed his personal indifference to bicyclists and bicycling incorrectly influence his duty and obligation to uphold the laws as written and not as his personal bias may have influenced. This error on the part of the LEO is also accountable to the local jurisdiction and subject to subsequent claim.

You have rights and legal protections, irrespective as to what you were told during the aftermath of your accident by various parties.

[daker13]

Anyone else struck by the irony that ~70% of motorists consistently exceed posted speed limits, do rolling stops at stop signs, fail to signal lane changes, drive while distracted (texting, phones, stereos etc)?

Let he who is without sin...

Recent study that shows drivers and cyclists break laws at about the same rate:
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-18/survey-finds-bicyclists-and-motorists-ignore-traffic-laws-similar-rates

Thank you. The idea that cyclists are the only ones breaking traffic laws is a joke.

[BlueFly]

All road users need to smarten up, get theirs heads out of their arses and show some consideration and patients. It also would not hurt to remember that lives are at stake when any one uses the roads.

+1 :hello::hello::hello:

[Sierra]

All road users need to smarten up, get theirs heads out of their arses and show some consideration and patients. It also would not hurt to remember that lives are at stake when any one uses the roads.


The miscreant in the pic seems to want to make sure we all wind up as such. ;)

[Ti Designs]

Anyone else struck by the irony that ~70% of motorists consistently exceed posted speed limits, do rolling stops at stop signs, fail to signal lane changes, drive while distracted (texting, phones, stereos etc)?


That excuse works so well when you're 5 years old and punching your brother in the back seat of the car while your parents aren't looking. "he started it!!!"

Once again, the issue here is entitlement (or how to change a perfectly reasonable person into a total a$$hole). We're talking about public roads, you (the collective you - drivers, cyclists...) don't own them, you use them. The price for their use (other than taxes, and you can't point to one piece of road and claim you own it 'cause your tax money went to building it) if following the laws. It seems like a raging bargain, I get to use the roads 24/7 and all I have to do is follow the rules? Tell me you get a better deal anywhere. But that's just not good enough for lots of people, the drivers want the cyclists out of their way, the cyclists want the drivers to give them some room (which has been written into the laws in most states). It's just groups of entitled a$$holes complaining about other groups of entitled a$$holes. If you want to drive like you own the road, buy one.

As for who breaks the laws, last I checked I only control one vehicle on the road - the one I'm riding or driving. As I only have control over that one, I make sure it's following the laws. If your excuse is that other people break the law, you've been sucked into the black hole known as stupidity.

[Dead Man]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement, has anyone else even considered the statement? "I'll share the road when you follow the rules". In my state (confusion) a bicycle is a vehicle and as such is bound by the same rules as other traffic. There are now bike lanes to protect cyclists, new laws for their increased safety, yet for all of these rights they still don't follow the laws. That makes cyclists unpredictable, most drivers treat them as wild animals out on the road 'cause they have no idea where they're gonna turn. As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers. If a cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by crossing traffic, it should be 100% the cyclist's fault.

I'll take that all back if anyone can point out where in the law cyclists are granted immunity to traffic laws...

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.

Bullsh¡t. You got some evidence cyclists are significantly more likely than anyone else to break laws? You want to compare how often cars speed, don't signal, roll through stops, run yellows, and a thousand others... Compared to what- what do cyclists do? Roll stop signs from time to time? You got skewed perception, man.

As has been pointed out the consequences for us breaking rules are almost nothing compared to the consequences of motorists doing so. Especially when it's motorist v cyclist. We're not even on the radar of major road problems, but you think this jack ass mother ****er has a point?

Half page rant of nothing, for nothing.

Thank you!!!

Ive told this before. Tried to get a good friend into cycling and when they showed up all the cyclists were acting like dooshcanoes. My friend never went back and to this day makes comments about lycra clad lovelies.

Two wrongs don't make right. And the stats show more pedestrians hit and killed every day than cyclists, and it doesn't get any attention. All death is sad but sometimes you calculate your own fate. I 100% support my cycle peeps but ya gotta act right too.

One anecdotal account of some cyclists acting like dooshcanoes (whatever that means) somehow legitimizes this guys declaration to run over cyclists not adhering to the rules of the road more strictly than the motorvehicles around them?

You seem to be making a connection that isn't really there.

[Ti Designs]

As has been pointed out the consequences for us breaking rules are almost nothing compared to the consequences of motorists doing so. Especially when it's motorist v cyclist. We're not even on the radar of major road problems, but you think this jack ass mother ****er has a point?

He is making a point, one which you don't seem to get. The consequences of a cyclist breaking the rules aren't nothing. You blow a stop sign or red light when there's car traffic coming across and the consequences look a lot like that guy's truck. In that scenario, you really can't pin that one on the driver - they had the right of way. The "they run lights too" argument doesn't work at all, nor does the damage potential argument. It's a very simple statement (made rather poorly), cyclists breaking the laws are unpredictable to drivers, they're putting themselves at risk in doing so.

[Lovetoclimb]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement, has anyone else even considered the statement? "I'll share the road when you follow the rules". In my state (confusion) a bicycle is a vehicle and as such is bound by the same rules as other traffic. There are now bike lanes to protect cyclists, new laws for their increased safety, yet for all of these rights they still don't follow the laws. That makes cyclists unpredictable, most drivers treat them as wild animals out on the road 'cause they have no idea where they're gonna turn. As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers. If a cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by crossing traffic, it should be 100% the cyclist's fault.

I'll take that all back if anyone can point out where in the law cyclists are granted immunity to traffic laws...

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.

I have lived and ridden extensively in 5 states now, all East of the Mississippi. However it was not until moving to NC that I decided I should become fluent in the "rights" of cyclists on the road, especially given that I live in a tourist heavy area. Here are some excerpts from the NC Driver's Handbook, required reading before you take your license exam and presumably something every Floridian, Tennessean, East Coaster, et al who are visiting would be reading as well before driving distractedly on our mountain roads and scenic byways ...

Bicycle riding is an important means of transportation, particularly for traveling to and from work and school. Because bicycles are vehicles, bicyclists must obey the same traffic laws as other drivers, this includes DWI laws. Bicyclists usually ride on the right side of the lane, but are entitled to use the full lane.

A bicyclist staying to the right in their lane is accommodating following drivers by making it easier to see when it is safe to pass, and easier to execute the pass. Drivers wishing to pass a bicyclist may do so only when there is abundant clearance and no oncoming traffic is in the opposing lane. When passing a bicyclist, always remember the bicyclist is entitled to use of the full lane.

While the entire section regarding bicycles needs more attention, detail, and input from people who actually consider cycling viable transport, the fact remains there is much ambiguity there and what I consider "following the rules" likely has discrepancy from that ignorant fool in Columbus. (BTW I grew up in Ohio and have ridden thousands of miles all over the state, Columbus is full of friendly drivers IME).

Here in NC I ride cautiously but confidently knowing I have the right to the full lane and will use it anytime I believe a driver may attempt to make a pass without assured clear distance. I can't even count the number of times all manner of vehicles have still passed with oncoming traffic, blind hills or curves, or simply to attempt to push me to the right. Given I am 6'3", usually on a fluro painted bike with a rear blinky light going, IF I survive any sort of encounter I hope to have a strong enough case to take that negligent driver down. I refuse to live in fear and not ride on the beautiful roads we have or carry some sort of weapon. I will however happily reference the above driver's handbook to educate someone once both of us have let the adrenaline subside. I'm still naive enough at times to thing a middle finger gets my point across, working on that one. But at the very least maybe I can get the driver to pull over and we can have a conversation. I have had some positive instances in that regard.

SO Ti, to circle back to your point(s) above, I doubt the USA will ever have a state where cyclists have immunity from traffic laws. But we are currently coexisting in a time where the laws we share provide a dangerous amount of ambiguity leading to people thinking cyclists are not "following rules" when they in fact are but erring on the side of caution because they are so much more vulnerable than he is in his SUV. His thinly veiled threats do nothing to improve relations and only show the ignorance out there and lack of interest that people like him have of coexisting with other road users.

ALL of the above is of course referring to any manner of road using cyclist, not just the lycra clad enthusiast types.

[Lovetoclimb]

He is making a point, one which you don't seem to get. The consequences of a cyclist breaking the rules aren't nothing. You blow a stop sign or red light when there's car traffic coming across and the consequences look a lot like that guy's truck. In that scenario, you really can't pin that one on the driver - they had the right of way. The "they run lights too" argument doesn't work at all, nor does the damage potential argument. It's a very simple statement (made rather poorly), cyclists breaking the laws are unpredictable to drivers, they're putting themselves at risk in doing so.

I will use a rural country road example here as well. Many of my rides start by coming from a 2 lane country road to a 5 lane state highway at a traffic signal. I can sit there for 20 minutes before a car comes to trip the light in the direction I am going. If no traffic is coming in any other direction should I not be able to go through the light? I would argue it harms nobody, though I do acknowledge that I am putting myself in a dangerous scenario and would be completely at fault if I were hit by a vehicle.

[Dead Man]

He is making a point, one which you don't seem to get. The consequences of a cyclist breaking the rules aren't nothing. You blow a stop sign or red light when there's car traffic coming across and the consequences look a lot like that guy's truck. In that scenario, you really can't pin that one on the driver - they had the right of way. The "they run lights too" argument doesn't work at all, nor does the damage potential argument. It's a very simple statement (made rather poorly), cyclists breaking the laws are unpredictable to drivers, they're putting themselves at risk in doing so.

All under the the assumption..... What? Who is doing all of this unpredictable law breaking?

Furthermore, who the hell has ever said a cyclist getting hit while running a red light isn't at fault?

[mcteague]

I was just run off the road by an inattentive driver in Panama City Fl. I swerved off the road and crashed to avoid being run over, but still went down hard at 20+ mph. I have a broken collar bone, two cracked ribs and a concussion, surgery is set for Thursday.

Luckily the driver stopped and called 911, the Florida Hwy Patrol officer spoke with me while in the ambulance but I really can't remember. When I called to get an accident report the officer said he wasn't filing one since there was no damage to the car, as such it would be "he said, she said" so he couldn't establish fault. I protested stating the obvious that I would never ntentionally ride off the road at speed, however he said there was nothing he could do. The conversation went south when I asked if I allowed myself to be run over, if he would file an accident report.

Basically the de facto ruling is that the cyclist is at fault unless there's damage to th car, forget any damage to my bike and rider. Further protest went nowhere except to speak to his supervisor.

The problem is also with law enforcement and countrywide.

Sam in Cincy

Happened to me as well. Driver turned left in front of me. Suddenly saw me and slammed on his brakes, stopping directly in front of me. If he just kept going I would have been fine. My only course of action was to plow into his car or swerve hard right, which took me into a curb. I chose the latter but was not able to jump the curb as it all happened too fast. I was flipped on my back which did help dissipate the impact. Cops were called and the driver left the scene after a minute or two. A witness took a picture of his plate.

Well, turns out, as we never made contact the cop said there was nothing he could do. I contacted a lawyer, who looked into it, and said he could not even get the drivers name from the police.

Tim

[Mike Lopez]

...but removing ones self from our perspective as cyclists he has the right to express himself as stated in the article.

"Similar parades, which combine political satire with a celebration of the First Amendment right to freedom of speech, are held throughout the year in several cities throughout the United States, having originated in Pasadena, California in 1978."

It wasn't the tournament of roses parade...It was a Doodah parade and lots of goofy things happen in those.

And. If the organizers denied him the right to express himself then they'd likely end up with legal issues.

Don't get me wrong. I care about these issues and have lost friends to accidents. In my youth I was nearly killed in a bike/car incident where we both blew a 4 way stop and collided. I don't recall how that one was written up in the police report but we were both clearly at fault. My mom wanted to sue the hell out of the driver but as an idealistic youth I accepted responsibility for my action. In the end my medical bills were covered and I ended up with a shiny new Windsor Pro.

Freedom of speech and expression can be a bitch but must be tolerated. Often times it comes in the form of poor taste and is outlandish/impossible.

A good example might be the spew coming out the mouths of various presidential candidates....

This view probably won't be popular on the forum but I'm exercising my right to express my opinion. ;)

[mg2ride]

If we ignore the tasteless method of making a statement, has anyone else even considered the statement? "I'll share the road when you follow the rules". In my state (confusion) a bicycle is a vehicle and as such is bound by the same rules as other traffic. There are now bike lanes to protect cyclists, new laws for their increased safety, yet for all of these rights they still don't follow the laws. That makes cyclists unpredictable, most drivers treat them as wild animals out on the road 'cause they have no idea where they're gonna turn. As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers. If a cyclist blows a red light and gets hit by crossing traffic, it should be 100% the cyclist's fault.

I'll take that all back if anyone can point out where in the law cyclists are granted immunity to traffic laws...

There are two things that make you a d!ckhead. The first is a sense of entitlement, the second is the inability to see things from someone else's perspective.

+1

People tend to take everything to seriously.

It is what it is.

[johnmdesigner]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/nyregion/grief-for-an-avid-cyclist-killed-in-a-brooklyn-hit-and-run.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=nygeo-promo-region&region=nygeo-promo-region&WT.nav=nygeo-promo-region

[Dead Man]

Freedom of speech and expression can be a bitch but must be tolerated. Often times it comes in the form of poor taste and is outlandish/impossible.



Just like the assjack flying a still-pleated-from-the-packaging brand new confederate flag from his Saint Helens Oregon front porch on the 4th of July this year, I wouldn't deny the man his freedom of expression. but guys like that ought not be surprised or complain at all when their bull**** is so egregious that it makes others exercise their freedoms of expression to call him a ****in idiot.

[Mike Lopez]

Just like the assjack flying a still-pleated-from-the-packaging brand new confederate flag from his Saint Helens Oregon front porch on the 4th of July this year, I wouldn't deny the man his freedom of expression. but guys like that ought not be surprised or complain at all when their bull**** is so egregious that it makes others exercise their freedoms of expression to call him a ****in idiot.

I know folks who say outlandish things for shock value. When they get called out they just smile cause they know it's BS. That pretty much covers one candidates whole campaign.

Some of the folks you may be referring to would probably react otherwise.

They may be idiots but I don't think that's against the law.

[johnmdesigner]

Classifying a bicycle as just another "vehicle" is the lazy way out for lawmakers.
While they may both be "vehicles" they are not equal.
The damage that occurs when one car cuts off another may result in damage to the vehicle but not to the occupants.
When a car or SUV cuts off a cyclist (or a pedestrian) the chance of death is much higher.
When the motorist is not given that distinction (by traffic penalties and enforcement of the rights of cyclists/pedestrians) he will assume he can treat cyclists/pedestrians the same as the vehicle he is driving.
When law enforcement insists on cyclists obeying the vehicular laws but will not enforce those same laws when the cyclist is involved it sends a message to the driver that they will not be punished for their recklessness.
Perhaps Ti Designs sees a glass half full. I see one half empty.

[FlashUNC]

There's making the point that cyclists are jerks sometimes, and then there's being glib about their deaths at your hands as a motorist.

This is the "Too bad, so sad" of vehicular manslaughter.

While I fully agree that the rules of the road should be adhered to whenever possible, I also recognize that we're all human and mistakes sometimes happen.

The result of not following traffic rules should not be the death penalty, or life as a quadriplegic, or with a catastrophic brain injury.

I would argue if you're willing to pilot a multi-ton vehicle capable of speeds well in excess of the speed limit on nearly all roads, you should be held to a higher standard of liability and culpability than the guy in lyrca on a 15 pound carbon machine.

Does this moron have the right to his poorly considered and entirely-not-as-clever-as-he-thinks opinion? Of course. But the nice thing is everyone else also has the right to tell him his opinion is garbage and he's probably a terrible person and shun him.

Its dangerous, in my view, to normalize the notion that death is an acceptable outcome for the violation or ignorance of simple traffic rules, even to the extent many are willing to victim blame on this thread.

Even the biggest asshole on a bike, riding down the street with a Bob trailer full of boombox speakers playing REO Speedwagen's entire discography while shooting off fireworks and pedaling at 3 mph in the middle of rush hour doesn't deserve death.

[Sierra]

Just like the assjack flying a still-pleated-from-the-packaging brand new confederate flag from his Saint Helens Oregon front porch on the 4th of July this year, I wouldn't deny the man his freedom of expression. but guys like that ought not be surprised or complain at all when their bull**** is so egregious that it makes others exercise their freedoms of expression to call him a ****in idiot.

+1

This is exactly correct. Reminds me of the altercation a few days ago between the Neo-Nazi skinheads and the protesters in Sacramento, California. There was a lot of commentary afterwards on how the skinheads were, apparently, denied their 1st Amendment rights of free speech. Everybody always talks about their rights, of course; but rarely do these discussions take into account the important responsibilities to which these same rights are cleaved. Of course, you have the "right" to go into a cowboy bar in Montana and start calling all of the patrons brokeback cowboys, stupid rednecks--that sort of thing. That much is undeniable. But, should we be surprised when they later find the injudicious speaker dead in a ditch someplace?

[Gummee]

I will use a rural country road example here as well. Many of my rides start by coming from a 2 lane country road to a 5 lane state highway at a traffic signal. I can sit there for 20 minutes before a car comes to trip the light in the direction I am going. If no traffic is coming in any other direction should I not be able to go through the light? I would argue it harms nobody, though I do acknowledge that I am putting myself in a dangerous scenario and would be completely at fault if I were hit by a vehicle.

At least here in VA we can run that light after 2 cycles or 2 minutes.

I can ride like a prince on the road and STILL get hassled by someone. Usually there's 1 someone per ride doing something stupid like passing into traffic, over a hill, too closely, or into a blind corner.

Remember *I'M* doing nothing wrong, but still have have drivers of cars being idiots around me.

So, the 'obey the rules or else!' sentiment is complete baloney. Basically, those types are really saying 'get off my road you spandex-clad [sexual preference slur deleted]!'

M

[Dead Man]

at least here in va we can run that light after 2 cycles or 2 minutes.

I can ride like a prince on the road and still get hassled by someone. Usually there's 1 someone per ride doing something stupid like passing into traffic, over a hill, too closely, or into a blind corner.

Remember *i'm* doing nothing wrong, but still have have drivers of cars being idiots around me.

So, the 'obey the rules or else!' sentiment is complete baloney. Basically, those types are really saying 'get off my road you spandex-clad [sexual preference slur deleted]!'

m

exactly.

[choke]

Like nearly everyone here, I took offense at first. However, after reading that the parade was noted for satire, I am now wondering if that offense was warranted.

What if the entry isn't as it appears, but rather 180° away? I can't help but think that it may be a shot at the I-own-the-road attitude of many car drivers. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, and the theme would certainly be lost on many of the people watching the parade, but the more I've contemplated it the more I think that may well be the case.

If it was indeed as it appears, a jab at cyclists, well, I can't say that I'm surprised. It seems that every year the divisiveness becomes more prevalent in the US.


As for freedom of speech, I think H.L. Mencken said it best: "The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

[johnmdesigner]

I always chuckle a little bit when I see people defending a total stranger's freedom of speech but am always mystified when they seem to spend so little time defending their own rights.
Let's look at your rights as a cyclist. Do you have any? No.
The law basically treats you as a pedestrian when it comes to accidents. Yet, you are obliged by law to obey all vehicular traffic laws. The most a pedestrian can be charged with is jaywalking and that is rarely enforced.

You pay no vehicular tax (as a cyclist).
You are not required to possess a state issued driver's license to own a bike or ride it on the road.
You are not required to have liability insurance in the event of an accident.
You no not have to have your vehicle inspected to confirm that it is roadworthy.

Put all of those together and it is easy to see why a cyclist has no problem breaking the law or a motorist has no problem running you off thee road.

Now can state and local governments pass laws that say that you must carry the same protections as a motorist. Sure they can. But they won't because to license you they must now acknowledge that you exist! Yet they continue to insist that you obey laws that do not protect you.
So easy to jump up and defend the "freedom of speech" of an idiot with an IQ the same as your tire pressure. So hard to actually solve a problem that would make things better for everyone.

[paredown]

That excuse works so well when you're 5 years old and punching your brother in the back seat of the car while your parents aren't looking. "he started it!!!"

Once again, the issue here is entitlement (or how to change a perfectly reasonable person into a total a$$hole). We're talking about public roads, you (the collective you - drivers, cyclists...) don't own them, you use them. The price for their use (other than taxes, and you can't point to one piece of road and claim you own it 'cause your tax money went to building it) if following the laws. It seems like a raging bargain, I get to use the roads 24/7 and all I have to do is follow the rules? Tell me you get a better deal anywhere. But that's just not good enough for lots of people, the drivers want the cyclists out of their way, the cyclists want the drivers to give them some room (which has been written into the laws in most states). It's just groups of entitled a$$holes complaining about other groups of entitled a$$holes. If you want to drive like you own the road, buy one.

As for who breaks the laws, last I checked I only control one vehicle on the road - the one I'm riding or driving. As I only have control over that one, I make sure it's following the laws. If your excuse is that other people break the law, you've been sucked into the black hole known as stupidity.

Didn't mean this as an excuse for illicit behaviour of cyclists--just a wry observation on human nature.

I think we are pretty much in agreement.

However, anytime there is a story in the local press (NYC) about a cyclist incident, the comments section turn into a pile-on like our friend with his float--cyclists are law-breakers, ergo I will not treat them with respect, cyclists don't pay for public roads so shouldn't be on them etc etc.

If any of you have driven in NYC, the notion of motorists calling out cyclists for law-breaking would be hilarious--except that the mentality of not giving cyclists (or for that matter pedestrians and others at risk) a break can have fatal consequences....

[nmrt]

All I can see here is that the guy can run me over (even if I am not following rules) simply because he CAN run me over. He has a bigger vehicle. If I were driving a tank (and not following rules), would be run me over?

Or better yet, what if a 18-wheeler driver in this parade has a totaled car on it's hood and says the exact same thing.

That excuse works so well when you're 5 years old and punching your brother in the back seat of the car while your parents aren't looking. "he started it!!!"

Once again, the issue here is entitlement (or how to change a perfectly reasonable person into a total a$$hole). We're talking about public roads, you (the collective you - drivers, cyclists...) don't own them, you use them. The price for their use (other than taxes, and you can't point to one piece of road and claim you own it 'cause your tax money went to building it) if following the laws. It seems like a raging bargain, I get to use the roads 24/7 and all I have to do is follow the rules? Tell me you get a better deal anywhere. But that's just not good enough for lots of people, the drivers want the cyclists out of their way, the cyclists want the drivers to give them some room (which has been written into the laws in most states). It's just groups of entitled a$$holes complaining about other groups of entitled a$$holes. If you want to drive like you own the road, buy one.

As for who breaks the laws, last I checked I only control one vehicle on the road - the one I'm riding or driving. As I only have control over that one, I make sure it's following the laws. If your excuse is that other people break the law, you've been sucked into the black hole known as stupidity.

[seric]

Ti Designs has already mirrored most of my thoughts on the matter. The other thing I feel that should be kept in mind is that the ill will that has developed towards cyclists has not only been prompted by the action of hobbyists.

I would hope that those with a love of the sport would be the least guilty of the self entitled cyclist crowd. However, cycling is not just about sport, to many cycling is just a form of transportation. Sometimes this is not even a form of transportation they have chosen but have had forced upon them due to economic factors. At the end of the day, we have a large cycling population without the benefit of cycling being an ingrained part of our culture as it is in many countries. With as was mentioned earlier, some of these riders never even being required to learn the rules of the road.

A non-cyclist driver is often not going to reflect upon the difference between a cyclist interacting appropriately with traffic and one who is not. The best we can do is try to improve it from our end by promoting better riding practices. Half the time in Santa Cruz, drivers are surprised when I stop at stop signs, it's sad that the norm is so far out of whack that it confuses drivers when cyclists obey the laws.

[Dead Man]

i also get drivers that sit there retardedly staring at me at 4-way stops - I don't make the assumption that it's because they're "astonished" I am following the rules, I think they sit there for a whole variety of reasons- don't know what the rules are themselves; don't know if I know the rules; are trying to be considerate (the worst!) and let the vulnerable road user go first; just plain aren't used to dealing with cyclists and aren't sure what to do till they think about it for a minute; are kind of astonished just to see me in the road, regardless of whether I'm following rules or not; and, probably most off all (this is me making an assumption) - they see me track standing or slowly creeping up to the line and anything but me on the saddle with a foot on the ground makes them unsure of my intent.

"Astonished" I'm "following the rules of the road" might be in there too, but I'd like if that ever even happens, it's an afterthought once I'm in the rear view mirror.

The vast majority of riders I see out there operate pretty much exactly like me.... Safe and courteous, in that order. That means occasional minor traffic violations, unique to the unique characteristics of the bike on the road (much like speeding is gonna be pretty unique to motorvehicles)

The perception that motorists, and apparently even some of you "cyclists," that were all just out there ignoring the rules and ****ing with drivers.... Take that **** to the car and driver forums, man. All you do is piss us off with that crap. You think you're convincing me to never roll through a stop sign by getting all sanctimonious on me? Especially in this context, with someone making the 'joke' that they'll hit cyclists not following the rules (to what... A T? Like you do, motorist?). Yea... GREAT place to preach to people who are never going to see eye to eye with you.

I'm perfectly ****in safe out there, and so are the vast majority of my fellow cyclists.

[Ti Designs]

SO Ti, to circle back to your point(s) above, I doubt the USA will ever have a state where cyclists have immunity from traffic laws. But we are currently coexisting in a time where the laws we share provide a dangerous amount of ambiguity leading to people thinking cyclists are not "following rules" when they in fact are but erring on the side of caution because they are so much more vulnerable than he is in his SUV. His thinly veiled threats do nothing to improve relations and only show the ignorance out there and lack of interest that people like him have of coexisting with other road users.

Are you suggesting that drivers know the laws about cycling in any given state? They don't, or at best they know a select few laws. I've had countless drivers tell me we must ride single file (once when it was just my girlfriend and I on the tandem - I'm not kidding), but that part about passing when safe escapes them...

Just the same, I don't use their ignorance of the law as an excuse to not obey the laws myself. Be the change in the world you would like to see - I'd rather see more people following the laws than join those who don't.

[Dead Man]

Dude does NOT have a fckin point. There's no defendable position suggesting hitting cyclists that aren't following the rules.

**** is ridiculous, and so are you who are defending this BS.

You think nobody has ever heard anyone complain about cyclists not obeying the rules of the road? You don't think cyclists think about their own safety on the road? You think cyclists are out there martyring themselves for road use entitlement?

Assjack's message isn't changing anyone's mind. It's not making a "point" that hasn't been made a thousand times. It's not new or inventive. It's not a public service announcement. It's just some spiteful, angry, hostile bull****, meant to piss off those he doesn't like, and gratuitously indulge those who hate us. Anyone who doesn't see that needs to grow some neurons.

[Seramount]

i also get drivers that sit there retardedly staring at me at 4-way stops...

the motorists I encounter tend to be in two categories:

1. no clue who has the ROW (includes the 'nice' people who wave you thru)

2. boneheads who think cars always have the ROW

sadly, I'm almost ok with the second group, at least their behavior is consistent.

the first group can be totally sketchy...they're going, no...wait, they're yielding, um, nope going now...argh.

and fwiw, I've had it with slack-jawed types rolling up next to me to lecture about the 'fullness' of my stop. after blowing hot air for a bit, they invariably turn in front of me with no signal.

[FlashUNC]

Are you suggesting that drivers know the laws about cycling in any given state? They don't, or at best they know a select few laws. I've had countless drivers tell me we must ride single file (once when it was just my girlfriend and I on the tandem - I'm not kidding), but that part about passing when safe escapes them...

Just the same, I don't use their ignorance of the law as an excuse to not obey the laws myself. Be the change in the world you would like to see - I'd rather see more people following the laws than join those who don't.

But what you're saying is you're totally willing to accommodate others' ignorance of the law.

Its not an either/or. Drivers need better education and training and to be held to a higher standard.

[JStonebarger]

Do drivers hate on other drivers because they don't drive well? Or because they don't follow the law? Or even because they're driving drunk, texting behind the wheel, or putting on makeup on the highway? Not like they do cyclists, no.

This isn't about following rules.

[johnmdesigner]

Are you suggesting that drivers know the laws about cycling in any given state? They don't, or at best they know a select few laws. I've had countless drivers tell me we must ride single file (once when it was just my girlfriend and I on the tandem - I'm not kidding), but that part about passing when safe escapes them...

Just the same, I don't use their ignorance of the law as an excuse to not obey the laws myself. Be the change in the world you would like to see - I'd rather see more people following the laws than join those who don't.

I'm sorry, but it's really hard for me to believe that you obey ALL the traffic laws.
I stop for red lights and stop signs. It's no skin off my nose. I have a drink and adjust my tampon shorts while I wait. I stop not because I have respect for vehicle drivers who curse me. I stop because I no longer wish to pay tickets that fund a police department that will not assist me when I am in trouble. That have no respect for my rights as a person using the road.
There are 2 places on my route where to obey the traffic signals would put me in danger of death. I do not stop there. If a cop gives me a ticket then so be it. I have no argument. Rather pay the fine than be dead.
Most motorists get their license off a cereal box. The DMV will give a license to anyone. Put some cycling related questions on the test. And don't be so high and mighty about the law. Bet you've broken a few of them in your lifetime.

[johnmdesigner]

It's not just about cyclists.

"Yet last year, according to Transportation Alternatives, (NYC) drivers who failed to yield caused 5,966 crashes resulting in death or injury and fewer than 40 of them were prosecuted for it."

[Jgrooms]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160706/a333fb30d68457e2c2134c29fd93561e.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[johnmdesigner]

True, a little violence never hurt the motorcycle riders...

[makoti]

Dude does NOT have a fckin point. There's no defendable position suggesting hitting cyclists that aren't following the rules.

**** is ridiculous, and so are you who are defending this BS.

You think nobody has ever heard anyone complain about cyclists not obeying the rules of the road? You don't think cyclists think about their own safety on the road? You think cyclists are out there martyring themselves for road use entitlement?

Assjack's message isn't changing anyone's mind. It's not making a "point" that hasn't been made a thousand times. It's not new or inventive. It's not a public service announcement. It's just some spiteful, angry, hostile bull****, meant to piss off those he doesn't like, and gratuitously indulge those who hate us. Anyone who doesn't see that needs to grow some neurons.

+1 How this guy threatening to run people down somehow has morphed into "Yeah, well, we are a lawless bunch" is beyond me.

[johnmdesigner]

+1 How this guy threatening to run people down somehow has morphed into "Yeah, well, we are a lawless bunch" is beyond me.

You are a terrible lawless bunch.
You weigh 125 pounds
Your outfit does not allow for concealment of a .38 snub nose.
Your in our way of driving 90 mph to our next destination.
Don't you see how terrible you are?

[thwart]

Just thought I'd interject here and comment on how powerful this image is...

Clearly the dynamic needs to change somehow. And if some fool in a doofus parade makes folks angry enough to become more engaged... well then, I'm all for it.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/07/06/nyregion/06BIKER1sub/06BIKER1sub-master768.jpg

[zap]

edit

As a cyclist who does follow the laws, this bothers me as much as it does the drivers.

If I'm not mistaken, do you not participate in Boston area WC ride.

[fuzzalow]

Respectfully, some of what is batted around here is circular reasoning and is getting nowhere.

As a collective group, I do not like to see ourselves lowered to argue at the same lower-tier of intelligence as evidenced by the viewpoint of this SUV driver. I do not believe that tactic will progress bicycling forwards in the mainstream.

Wallowing in a cesspool of stupid argument is when both sides - motorist & bicyclist, are validating the righteousness of their respective positions by arguing the other side is breaking the law too. Which said another way, is arguing that your side is more right because your opponent's side doesn't behave perfectly. That's just an excuse. It is a cop out. It is a line of reasoning that is a guarantee not to lose. That's the stupid line of reasoning that this imbecile in the SUV is expressing.

The good thing is this imbecile in the SUV is not empowered to enforce this law of his own making. He's just another idiot that invented a reason not to have to do something - he's only a singular, random element that will have to be dealt with if & when be breaks the law.

In the big picture: It doesn't matter what the other side does if you are intent and serious about making a positive difference. Decide to take a positive course of action, have the courage to live by the standards you set for yourself, have strength in your convictions, figure out a way to work positive action into your life, and do it. Just do it.

I can only control what I do. I don't GAS what this imbecile in the SUV does and I will trust in the numbers that I never cross paths with him. I don't waste my time arguing with idiots. I do my part as a cyclist to lead by my positive example, imperfect however that may be - for I am but a human and a sinner.

All kidding aside, folks, this imbecile in an SUV doesn't deserve the attention.

[johnmdesigner]

Respectfully, some of what is batted around here is circular reasoning and is getting nowhere.

As a collective group, I do not like to see ourselves lowered to argue at the same lower-tier of intelligence as evidenced by the viewpoint of this SUV driver. I do not believe that tactic will progress bicycling forwards in the mainstream.

Wallowing in a cesspool of stupid argument is when both sides - motorist & bicyclist, are validating the righteousness of their respective positions by arguing the other side is breaking the law too. Which said another way, is arguing that your side is more right because your opponent's side doesn't behave perfectly. That's just an excuse. It is a cop out. It is a line of reasoning that is a guarantee not to lose. That's the stupid line of reasoning that this imbecile in the SUV is expressing.

The good thing is this imbecile in the SUV is not empowered to enforce this law of his own making. He's just another idiot that invented a reason not to have to do something - he's only a singular, random element that will have to be dealt with if & when be breaks the law.

In the big picture: It doesn't matter what the other side does if you are intent and serious about making a positive difference. Decide to take a positive course of action, have the courage to live by the standards you set for yourself, have strength in your convictions, figure out a way to work positive action into your life, and do it. Just do it.

I can only control what I do. I don't GAS what this imbecile in the SUV does and I will trust in the numbers that I never cross paths with him. I don't waste my time arguing with idiots. I do my part as a cyclist to lead by my positive example, imperfect however that may be - for I am but a human and a sinner.

All kidding aside, folks, this imbecile in an SUV doesn't deserve the attention.

I think the conversation here went beyond the stupid driver to the idea of fighting to retain your privilege to ride your bike on the roads.
You mention this place as a "collective group" but I see little consensus even here to acknowledge cycling as being viewed negatively by our society.
I am not as articulate as you but I do know that to ignore the relentless attacks by the media, law enforcement, and local government will only result in the eventually banning of cyclists from our nations roads.
"Policing by Discouragement" is already well underway in our country. It will not be necessary to pass laws against cyclists. People will become so fed up with the way they are treated that the risks will far outweigh the rewards of cycling.
"I can only control what I do" is not a concerted effort to retain your privileges. They will only be maintained when all of us come together and yes, call out every a-hole that thinks they can go around suggesting we should be killed.
I tried wearing the "I'm a good person crown". It doesn't work when everyone around you hates you.

[William]

"The story of how the car took over the American Streets."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AFn7MiJz_s



The blame/animosity still seems to be very prevalent today....







William

[Tony]

Dude does NOT have a fckin point. There's no defendable position suggesting hitting cyclists that aren't following the rules.

**** is ridiculous, and so are you who are defending this BS.

You think nobody has ever heard anyone complain about cyclists not obeying the rules of the road? You don't think cyclists think about their own safety on the road? You think cyclists are out there martyring themselves for road use entitlement?

Assjack's message isn't changing anyone's mind. It's not making a "point" that hasn't been made a thousand times. It's not new or inventive. It's not a public service announcement. It's just some spiteful, angry, hostile bull****, meant to piss off those he doesn't like, and gratuitously indulge those who hate us. Anyone who doesn't see that needs to grow some neurons.

Agree.

[bikinchris]

For those who want to learn about the history of cycling:

www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com

[1happygirl]

Just so I'm not misunderstood (which I frequently am due to poor 'riting skillz---Science not English lol)

I don't think anyone is justifying hitting ANYone or ANYthing, thats just my take on it.

I just think we all need to follow rulz and WE cyclists don't help the public get more warm fuzzies towards us by riding in a pack during rush hour in places esp like mine with no public transport or by blowing through stop signs, etc.

[fuzzalow]

We are tossing around idle comments and ideas. I doubt that there is much anyone in this entire thread disagrees expansively amongst ourselves on, but as always, the nuances get lost in printed word without the person and the timing to make things more clear.

I think the conversation here went beyond the stupid driver to the idea of fighting to retain your privilege to ride your bike on the roads.

I do not see the ability to ride roads as being under threat, short of agreement among the radical disaffected to commit to organized manslaughter against bicyclists. But on municipal & legal grounds I see progress towards greater inclusion of bicycles as a viable transport alternative. Where is riding a bike on public roads under attack as an initiative of municipal policy?

You mention this place as a "collective group" but I see little consensus even here to acknowledge cycling as being viewed negatively by our society.

If you are saying cycling is not viewed negatively except for the angry, disaffected few, I agree with you. Those angry men & women I view as a portion of society that is angry about far more than bicyclist and bicycling. As such, those angry voices do not reflect society at large.

I am not as articulate as you but I do know that to ignore the relentless attacks by the media, law enforcement, and local government will only result in the eventually banning of cyclists from our nations roads.
"Policing by Discouragement" is already well underway in our country. It will not be necessary to pass laws against cyclists. People will become so fed up with the way they are treated that the risks will far outweigh the rewards of cycling.

Other than the occasional goofy law proposed that goes nowhere, like mandating safety flags on bikes, I haven't heard of any such threats as you seem to fear. If viewed as a real plausible threat, news such as this would make it onto this forum. I am not aware of official police policy by any municipality with the stated purpose of discouraging access or rights to public roadways. I think you are falling into a slippery slope scenario for unwarranted fears.

"I can only control what I do" is not a concerted effort to retain your privileges.

Agree. But as you pointed out above, there is no consensus and I do not see a consensus forming anytime soon. In lieu of that, I will nonetheless choose to act positively rather than waiting for Godot, as it were.

They will only be maintained when all of us come together and yes, call out every a-hole that thinks they can go around suggesting we should be killed.
I tried wearing the "I'm a good person crown". It doesn't work when everyone around you hates you.

I disagree with this tactic. I will not root around in the mud with idiots that transgress against bicyclists on a tit-for-tat basis. Unless you mean this as a metaphor where a substantive case is built in justifying statutes & protections to bicyclists at large as a broader measure. Accomplishing this would duly recognize and acknowledge bicyclists as integrated to the goals of public safety.

We get people not to hate us by not giving them a reason to hate us. Behaving & riding responsibly is a reasonable step towards that end.

Nice talking to you.

[Sierra]

All kidding aside, folks, this imbecile in an SUV doesn't deserve the attention.


This rather misses the point. Or, at any rate, is a naive and, perhaps, dangerous attitude. This imbecile is obviously reaping much attention due to the power, for better or for worse, conferred on him by the internet, which with the cold efficiency of an AR-15, enables his ability to communicate his twisted intentions to those confederates, in spirit, who may live far, far away from him and who may take a certain inspiration or at the very least a sense of justification from his ostensible buffoonery (I say, ostensible, because who among us really knows what this man is truly capable of?). It is not uncommon in life that, sometimes, such a sense of righteousness no matter how perverted in actuality, comes to fruition in certain, undesirable actions. There is thought; there is action. They are not unrelated. And, although I agree that we should all foremost attend to our own sterling behavior on the roadways and boulevards, it is also right and proper that such heinous expressions be forcefully countered in a public forum such as this.

Nice talking to you, too. Lord Chamberlain.

[oldpotatoe]

Respectfully, some of what is batted around here is circular reasoning and is getting nowhere.

As a collective group, I do not like to see ourselves lowered to argue at the same lower-tier of intelligence as evidenced by the viewpoint of this SUV driver. I do not believe that tactic will progress bicycling forwards in the mainstream.

Wallowing in a cesspool of stupid argument is when both sides - motorist & bicyclist, are validating the righteousness of their respective positions by arguing the other side is breaking the law too. Which said another way, is arguing that your side is more right because your opponent's side doesn't behave perfectly. That's just an excuse. It is a cop out. It is a line of reasoning that is a guarantee not to lose. That's the stupid line of reasoning that this imbecile in the SUV is expressing.

The good thing is this imbecile in the SUV is not empowered to enforce this law of his own making. He's just another idiot that invented a reason not to have to do something - he's only a singular, random element that will have to be dealt with if & when be breaks the law.

In the big picture: It doesn't matter what the other side does if you are intent and serious about making a positive difference. Decide to take a positive course of action, have the courage to live by the standards you set for yourself, have strength in your convictions, figure out a way to work positive action into your life, and do it. Just do it.

I can only control what I do. I don't GAS what this imbecile in the SUV does and I will trust in the numbers that I never cross paths with him. I don't waste my time arguing with idiots. I do my part as a cyclist to lead by my positive example, imperfect however that may be - for I am but a human and a sinner.

All kidding aside, folks, this imbecile in an SUV doesn't deserve the attention.

Well said....

[Sierra]

Well said....

Yeah. Nobody would ever claim otherwise. The dude's a regular William Jennings Bryan.

And a Lord Chamberlain.

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah. Nobody would ever claim otherwise. The dude's a regular William Jennings Bryan.

And a Lord Chamberlain.

Whatever....no(cyclist)body likes the moron in the SUV...you can rant and rave all you want but all you can 'actually' do is ride YOUR bike, drive YOUR car..I suppose you could go find the guy and beat him senseless..that would help..just make sure you got your kit on.

[Sierra]

Whatever....no(cyclist)body likes the moron in the SUV...you can rant and rave all you want but all you can 'actually' do is ride YOUR bike, drive YOUR car..I suppose you could go find the guy and beat him senseless..that would help..just make sure you got your kit on.

Oh, yes. You mean the old: If I take care of myself then everything else will naturally fall into place principle. If only things were that simple. Beautiful theory, though.

[oldpotatoe]

Oh, yes. You mean the old: If I take care of myself then everything else will naturally fall into place principle. If only things were that simple. Beautiful theory, though.

OK, so what do you 'do' to the guy in the SUV??? Have him arrested, give him a stern talking to? Beat him up? Reason with him? We all see stupid things everyday. I see drivers drive like crap, I see cyclists run red lights..so what? I don't see any reason to get all winced up about it. IMHO, of course.

[Sierra]

OK, so what do you 'do' to the guy in the SUV??? Have him arrested, give him a stern talking to? Beat him up? Reason with him? We all see stupid things everyday. I see drivers drive like crap, I see cyclists run red lights..so what? I don't see any reason to get all winced up about it. IMHO, of course.


Hmmm . . . give me a moment here.

How does a Stalinesque visitation at 2AM sound to you? :D

[fuzzalow]

OK, so what do you 'do' to the guy in the SUV??? Have him arrested, give him a stern talking to? Beat him up? Reason with him? We all see stupid things everyday. I see drivers drive like crap, I see cyclists run red lights..so what? I don't see any reason to get all winced up about it. IMHO, of course.

HaHa! The inevitable blank stare and dead air that follows the big-talk tirade upon hearing the simple question: What happens next?

[Dead Man]

Seems this last bit here is an argument in philosophy.

'Now what?' Seems to be "do you choose to care, or do you choose to not care." What can you do? You can be vocally angry on the Internet... I mean, the entire social justice movement is nothing more than condescending posts and public shaming on social media. If I didn't have Facebook, I'd have no idea I can't call lame stuff "gay" anymore. But bored, partially educated, partially employed pretend-indignant millennials have taught me the error of my ways.

So being pissy on the Internet does do some stuff.

[BlueFly]

All kidding aside, folks, this imbecile in an SUV doesn't deserve the attention.

:fight:

If only this was true!
I prefer to stay on Bright Side of Life (;) Monty Python reference).

If you are pointing a finger at someone, know that your other 3 fingers are pointing back at you!

[Dead Man]

That's why I point like this:

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpslgdtcxx1.jpeg

(Yes I am pacelining from the bike [BREAKIN THE LAW! Run me the **** over])

[BlueFly]

LOL! Touche, Dead Man, Touche! :beer:

That's why I point like this:

http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpslgdtcxx1.jpeg

(Yes I am pacelining from the bike [BREAKIN THE LAW! Run me the **** over])

[beeatnik]

But bored, partially educated, partially employed pretend-indignant millennials have taught me the error of my ways.


TSOTW

true
stereotype
of
the
week

:cool:

[cnighbor1]

Once going down a sort of busy residential road with a yellow line has I passed a parked car the car behind me passed me very close
In less than a block he pulled into his driveway and parks
So I asked him why with nobody driving in other direction why pass so close
He stated I am not crossing the yellow line even pass a bike
I tried to explain that was not a great idea and if he hit the cyclist he would be breaking a law or two. But he had doubt he was right and that was it
How can you deal with attitudes like that

[Dead Man]

How can you deal with attitudes like that

The discussions I have with misinformed motorists usually involve way too much swearing and yelling to be productive. But if a calm conversation could be had, I'd suggest the motorist check the local state cyclists handbook.. which I know many, if not all, state's DMVs produce for the purpose of educating the public on bike rights and responsibilities.

Just a damn shame nobody ever seems to read them.

Oregon's is frustratingly sparse on actual legal information, but does point out some important things, like when it's appropriate for a cyclist to take a lane, that motorists are required to follow normal traffic rules for passing cyclists, that cyclists are protected "vulnerable road users," things like that. Ought to be required reading for a driver's license.

[cinema]

if anyone has his plate # please pm it to me :D

[Sierra]

if anyone has his plate # please pm it to me :D

Now you're talkin!

You see, Fezziwig & Patata Vecchia, this is how it's done. All you have to do is shake off a little bit of that Stockholm Syndrome that you've apparently knuckled under to. It's a brave, new world out there. The Age of the Internet! ;)

[shovelhd]

So you're going to stalk him?

[CampyorBust]

So you're going to stalk him?

Par for the course nowadays, no?

[makoti]

So you're going to stalk him?

He wanted attention, he got attention. Sounds fair.

[CampyorBust]

He wanted attention, he got attention. Sounds fair.

I forgot to say 'round these here parts, thanks for reminding me.:rolleyes:

[cinema]

All I said is I'll take the plate # if someone has it:cool:

legally it's only stalking if you're asked to leave.

[shovelhd]

Uh huh.

[oldpotatoe]

Now you're talkin!

You see, Fezziwig & Patata Vecchia, this is how it's done. All you have to do is shake off a little bit of that Stockholm Syndrome that you've apparently knuckled under to. It's a brave, new world out there. The Age of the Internet! ;)

How 'what's done'? Unleash the power of facebook? Righto..

Allright, you have his plate number..now what do you do? Find him? And then what? Confront him? Do you expect a 'ah shucks, I'm so sorry, I really didn't mean it...ya know my kids ride a bike also'...type response? Give to the local Police..they will say, 'and??'...go smack him arond, that'll teach him...but like I said, be sure to wear your bike kit...:help:

[Sierra]

Oh, my. The concept of tongue-in-cheek is rather a foreign thing on this forum, isn't it? :o

[oldpotatoe]

Oh, my. The concept of tongue-in-cheek is rather a foreign thing on this forum, isn't it? :o

Sorry, your irony/humor/etc was lost on me..:p

[Sierra]

Sorry, your irony/humor/etc was lost on me..:p

Seriously, then, the "power of the pen" that used to be ascribed to the written word, solely, lives on in things like social media. These technologies serve us all--again, for better or for worse--to disseminate ideas with astounding rapidity and efficiency. It is a mistake to underestimate this power. We all have opportunities--even more than that, a responsibility--to make sure that our viewpoints are shared in the digital marketplace of ideas. That is what is being done here.

[fuzzalow]

Sorry, your irony/humor/etc was lost on me..:p

There was never any humor in any of that so there was nothing to get or to lose. Oh my, embarrassing rantings later excused as intended humor, as if there was ever a trace of wit, in there that, somehow, was missed. There is never anything funny about stupid. ;)

[Sierra]

There was never any humor in any of that so there was nothing to get or to lose. Oh my, embarrassing rantings later excused as intended humor, as if there was ever a trace of wit, in there that, somehow, was missed. There is never anything funny about stupid. ;)

I wondered where you had gone, Fezziwig! You're kind of like Moses and come down from the mount now and then, to bring all of us poor lumpen, so-called "wisdom" on tablets; and I had missed you.

Hmmm . . . cheap shot ad hominem. Thought you were above that sort of thing. Guess not. Guess logical argument and/or opposition brings out the worst in some of us. ;) You do seem to have an authoritarian bent.

But don't worry--I forgive and absolve you! For, you are but human and a sinner (emphasis, here, on sinner apparently and your very words! LOL!). Have a nice day!

[johnmdesigner]

There was never any humor in any of that so there was nothing to get or to lose. Oh my, embarrassing rantings later excused as intended humor, as if there was ever a trace of wit, in there that, somehow, was missed. There is never anything funny about stupid. ;)

Even though you hate to get into the mud and wallow with idiots you're still here!
I'm glad.
It is idiots after all that make the Internet so entertaining.
I do admire your writing skills. And your determination to always take the high road.
I'll check back in November to see if that high road is working for you.

Nice talking to you.

[David Tollefson]

To get this back on track a little bit...

I suspect that the "rules" of which this parade participant speaks have little to do with legal requirements and rights-of-way.

[Dead Man]

Out on my ride this morning, doing everything right... getting passed by a Volvo in a sharp corner against a solid yellow unsafely close WITH oncoming traffic, because I was staying "as far right as practicable," I did a little thinking on the evolution of my road riding style...

When I first got serious about riding a few years ago, I was a bit of a convert. I hadn't cycled since I was a kid, and I HATED road cyclists in general. I don't know why (isn't that funny?).... but all I can guess is that I hated the assumptions I made about them.

Whatever the case... I didn't want to be a conformist roadie, and I was going be different and not break the rules or piss off motorists.. 'Cause I guess that was my perception of cyclists. I just wanted a way to stay in shape for alpine climbing, and commuting into Portland for 60-90 round trip/day seemed like a great way to do that. No subculture, and no rules violations less anyone get the moral upper hand on me.

Fast foward a few months.. many trips down Hwy 30 and through downtown Portland, up Barber blvd, across the bridges, through suburbia (the absolute worst), etc., etc... I noticed it really didn't seem to matter at all how hard I tried to be nice to motorists and not piss them off - they had no idea I was a cyclist hater too. They thought I WAS a cyclist, and just hated me for it. Cutting me off, no concern for ROW, constantly merging into me and trying to right-hook me... after probably my 30th near-death experience, I started to develop an appreciation for the militant anti-car mindset.

Now, a few years later... I still drive, and I don't commute.. but I'm still nearly hit just about every ride. Someone in a car does something wantonly or at least negligently hazardous to me on pretty much every ride. I'm used to it, and don't really consider someone passing too close a "near death experience" anymore.. you have to actually hit me with your mirror before I'll go that far, which has happened (and nearly put me in the ditch at 35mph).

I still don't generally blatantly ignore the rules I'm supposed to follow. I stop for reds at busy intersections, and even wait for the green. Usually. But given the disadvantage I'm at on the bike, given how absurd the application of some of these rules are to bikes, given how many more calories it takes for me to slow down from 25 and then sprint back up... and especially given the difficulty, inconvenience, and even possible danger of coming to a full stop and snapping out, then trying to get across a busy road while fumbling my re-snap into my pedal and OOPS, didn't gear down first...

**** the rules.

Safe, courteous, in that order.

Adhering to "the rules" is a distant third in priority.

[unterhausen]

So you're going to stalk him?

no, but he is going on the list for when the revolution comes

[bikinchris]

Out on my ride this morning, doing everything right... getting passed by a Volvo in a sharp corner against a solid yellow unsafely close WITH oncoming traffic, because I was staying "as far right as practicable," I did a little thinking on the evolution of my road riding style...

***Snip***

**** the rules.

Safe, courteous, in that order.

Adhering to "the rules" is a distant third in priority.

You misinterpret the "as far right" rule and you are putting yourself in danger because of it.

Visible
Predictable
Alert
Assertive
Courteous

In THAT order