Prednisone...am I doping or is it just in my head?

[Kingfisher]

Started a regimen of prednisone last Wednesday for a nagging shoulder, nerve issue. Not sure if it is real or not, but every ride since then has been VERY good, faster, stronger, not as tired. Is this in my head? Isn't prednisone a steroid? Forum experts chime in

[echelon_john]

not in your head. it's a steroid. enjoy. and when it ends, you will feel like hell. :hello:

[MattTuck]

Placebo effect.


I'm going to offer a new type of EPO, with a guarantee that you won't get popped. It will just be saline.


Edit. To be clear, it is probably both. This is why they have to do double blind clinical trials, because the placebo effect is real, and you need to be able to determine how much of an observed effect is due to the drug in excess of the placebo effect.

[stephenmarklay]

Yes. But the big question is do you want to be on cortical steroids.

[Kingfisher]

wonderful, so the end is near....i'm on a 9 day regimen ending this coming sunday. other side effect is more energy, no naps during the day and less sleep at night

[ColonelJLloyd]

Placebo effect.


I'm going to offer a new type of EPO, with a guarantee that you won't get popped. It will just be saline.


Edit. To be clear, it is probably both. This is why they have to do double blind clinical trials, because the placebo effect is real, and you need to be able to determine how much of an observed effect is due to the drug in excess of the placebo effect.

Well, he's taking a steroid and experiencing common associated side effects. Does it really matter what the ratio of observed effect is due to placebo versus drug?

wonderful, so the end is near....i'm on a 9 day regimen ending this coming sunday. other side effect is more energy, no naps during the day and less sleep at night

You're not also much hungrier?

[MattTuck]

I remember when I had a really bad ear infection in Seattle, and had to visit a doctor there. We got talking about cycling, and he he prescribed old school sudafed in pretty high doses. And told me that if I wanted to train while I was on it, I'd see a boost... and asked me if I was interested in his coaching services.

He probably would have given me other PEDs if I had asked.

[Cat3roadracer]

Just finished nine days of it for poison ivy. Ripped my stomach apart. Hated every day of it.

[Fivethumbs]

I have a Prednisone inhaler for asthma. One day I was having difficulty breathing and wanted to go for a ride so I took a couple of puffs and went out. On the climb I felt great and thought "this stuff is awesome." So the next time I went out I used the inhaler even though I could breathe fine. On the same climb I didn't feel great. Now I only use it when I have to.

[pasadena]

It's in your head.
I use prednisone for bee stings.

The dosage you would have needed to enhance performance would be much, much larger.

You dont want to be on it anyway. The long term effects are not good.

[djg21]

not in your head. it's a steroid. enjoy. and when it ends, you will feel like hell. :hello:

To be clear, it's not an anabolic steroid, but rather a strong anti-inflammatory corticosteroid that has been established to improve athletic performance and is banned by WADA.

[berserk87]

I was on it for a bad case of poison ivy years ago. Was on it for a couple of weeks I think.

I did not know anything about it at the time. I did feel like a beast in the 2nd week. I went out to do a local circuit with 2 teammates of mine and dropped them both. They could not catch me even when working together, which was not normal. May have been a great day for me, or could have been the meds. Either way, the effect did not last into the next season.

[wallymann]

Started a regimen of prednisone last Wednesday for a nagging shoulder, nerve issue. Not sure if it is real or not, but every ride since then has been VERY good, faster, stronger, not as tired. Is this in my head? Isn't prednisone a steroid? Forum experts chime in

corticosteroids were a well known doping regimen in the '80s and before. it's effect is nowhere near that of anabolid steroids or blood-boosters.

your experience may be positive until you start gaining weight, as prednisone is known to cause water-retention leading to weight gain.

[alessandro]

I had a 10-course of prednisone prescribed last summer for vertigo, to see if there was some inflammation in the ear canals that the steroid would shrink down. I was also very dizzy from the vertigo, so I couldn't really ride. I wanted to see how much it improved my performance, but I couldn't perform!

I also hated that drug--I found that the energy boost made it hard to fall asleep at night, and in general it just did a number on my head that, on top of the vertigo, made me extremely cranky.:mad:

[Hindmost]

Apply for a TUE.

[FlashUNC]

You are the most doped. None more doped.

You'll ride by Lance one day sipping on a Michelob Ultra and he'll do a spit take and be all "Daaaaaaamn that guy is doped."

[soulspinner]

You are the most doped. None more doped.

You'll ride by Lance one day sipping on a Michelob Ultra and he'll do a spit take and be all "Daaaaaaamn that guy is doped."

:beer:

[Red Tornado]

Had it prescribed for both a bad case of poison ivy & for asthma. The poison ivy Rx hit in late spring. After about 4-5 days on the stuff I was riding stronger guys off my wheel, also climbed noticeably faster on the MTB. But performance benefits aside, I didn't like how it made me feel. "Artificial energy" is the best way I can describe it. Even when I tired, I felt amped up & a little on edge. Would not want to spend a lengthy period of time like this. My prescriptions were only for a week or two's worth and that was long enough for me.

[Seramount]

as an asthmatic, I get the prednisone Rx every now and again.

last time I was 'using,' I tore up the Tues nite ride.

wheeee.....

[unterhausen]

not in your head. it's a steroid. enjoy. and when it ends, you will feel like hell. :hello:

I took some steroid to recover from mono, and this was my experience. Although it took a while before I felt good, after I stopped taking it I felt bad.

[bcroslin]

I've used it for sinus infections in the past and what I read said it helps with recovery more than anything else.

[Lewis Moon]

Red up on the side effects in the PDR. I can't take the stuff. At all.

[tv_vt]

Not just in your head. It's a steroid. Had the same effect on me when I took it for a week for bad poison ivy. Talked to my doc and he said it's bad stuff over the long haul. Lots of bad side effects if you use it a lot.

[bigbill]

I did three courses of prednisone and methyl prednisone last summer for my back. I felt like it helped my cycling when I was able to ride. It also affected my sleep and made me feel ill overall, but it did ease the inflammation in my back and allow a better quality of life. I think the biggest effect was recovery, I was able to do more long days in a row. I ended up having a microdiscectomy in November but did one more course before that to minimize inflammation before surgery.

I couldn't take it all the time in that dose.

[rpm]

I took prednisone for five years to suppress my immune system. Over the long term it shrivels your quads, thins your bones, raises your blood pressure, and screws up your joints. Getting off of it improved my life immensely.

[berserk87]

You are the most doped. None more doped.


Easy win for post of the day, and great "This is Spinal Tap" reference.

[Bruce K]

The TUE process has become way more complex and restrictive in the US. A doctor's letter alone does not do it any more.

My wife is on Prednisone regimens 3-4 times each year for pulmonary issues.

Life sucks during those 10 day periods and we certainly worry about her long term issues but there is nothing else that works better for her.

BK

[verticaldoug]

I may be wrong but:

The active ingredient in prednisone is prednisolone. It is not regulated or banned by WADA for local or topical use either in or out of competition. Unless you are shoving it up your rectum, ingesting it, or shooting it, you do not need a TUE. Accordingly, by WADA standards, you are not doping.

However this does illustrate how hard it is for an athlete to follow the WADA guidelines. http://list.wada-ama.org/prohibited-all-times/prohibited-substances/

[Kingfisher]

OP here, well another great ride last evening, went out on same road i've done hundreds of times, 90 degrees and high humidity but it didn't seem to matter, felt good the whole ride. One big difference is that I don't feel that tired after major efforts, recovery is quick, no soreness this am, heart rate was back to normal last night after a few minutes...this stuff is kind of crazy to have that effect on you. Only bad side effect is that it does make me feel like I'm a little on edge, too much coffee or something. Just a few days left of the meds, might as well enjoy them. Oh and the shoulder issue the pred was initially prescribed for is now gone.

[MarkC]

I may be wrong but: The active ingredient in prednisone is prednisolone. It is not regulated or banned by WADA for local or topical use either in or out of competition.

You have it right. Cant get enough systemic exposure from peripheral (topical or opthalmic) application to give the performance boost seen with pred. Its a case of WADA kinda getting it right for athletes. You can take oral or IV pred out of competition but need to let it clear before pinning on a number.


GlobalDRO is the place to look for understandable WADA/USADA information. Good search functions and understandable readouts of information.

http://www.globaldro.com/Home

Here is the chart for Pred (if the link works, if not, re-do the search):

http://www.globaldro.com/US/search/ingredient-status/ZXhCUzRRM3craWpOS0tDL3FEeVFzTXAya3QrcGczSkw1

Pharmacologically, Prednisone is a prodrug. It's metabolized (cleaved) by enzymes in the liver to create the active molecule (and some left over bits that are not needed for the GC activity).

FWIW --many, many, many millions of dollars have been spent trying to make better glucocorticoid receptor agonists and improve upon pred. Better meaning to keep the desired activities but eliminate the side effects, or non-desired activities of pred. Non-desired effects in humans from long term pred use includes weight gain, glucose intolerance, hypertension and bone density reductions.

There have been moderate successes to improve pred but none that are better enough to justify the expense of full development and commercial launch. As others have indicated, this is a drug that has wonderful activities but long term exposure comes with serious down sides. Great for acute use with poison ivy in normal healthy people, less great if you have RA, IBD, Psoriasis, or other immune syndrome and are on steroids chronically.

Finally, if anyone is given pred for an acute allergic or other situation, take the stuff 100% as prescribed. Taper properly and follow the directions. This is a serious drug. Your doc and pharmacist will also give that lecture so pay attention yo.

OP - Enjoy your short lived new found powers on the bike. Don't get seduced to the dark side :no:

-Mark

[Kingfisher]

So i'm still confused...is it the pred or my head that is contributing to these last few good rides?? Some guys say no, not high enough dosage, others say yes.

I really want to believe it is just my new fitness level or the new smoothie mix I've been experimenting with.

[verticaldoug]

At a minimum, just not having the shoulder issues anymore will make you feel better. You might be sleeping better because or it or any number of other things. Pain can really slow recovery and mess with the mind, So yes, the drug has given you a little boost. It probably helps a little on recovery. But by WADA standards, you are not doping.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If at a below WADA doping level you feel strong, imagine how strong you would feel if you were violating WADA standards!

or as Yoda would say:
Luke: Is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

[pmac]

I'm on long term prednisone, tapering from 10 mg/day, currently at 7, hoping to be off it altogether by the end of the year but I suspect that may be overly optimistic. For those of you seeing performance gains, what doses are you taking? The only positive for me, I think, has been pain relief, with lots of negatives. My biking has improved in the last 4-5 months, but I've attributed that to lots of hill repeats to prepare for mountain riding. Would the doses I'm taking have much effect on performance?

Thanks, Paul

[cash05458]

it is not in your head in my opinion...a few years ago I had to take it over two courses...I flew...

[joosttx]

The effect is real. I noticed it doesnt make you that much faster (my top level was my top level) but what it did for me when I was on a cycle for poison oak was it never made me tired. I could ride in Z5/4 forever then slow for a descent and the ride in Z5/4 again with the same efficiency time and time again.

[EightySixer]

Stay away from any prolonged use, I just had a total hip replacement at age thirty three due to two years of prednisone.

That stuff is nasty, really nasty. Something to give heavy consideration, it is a systemic anti inflammatory and while it feels good in your shoulder it is at the same time reducing necessary inflammation in the joint. Makes it easy to overwork your body and not know it.

[joep2517]

I was on prednisone for a few months. Started out with a high dosage (120mg/day) and the dosage was slowly decreased to help with the withdrawal. Afterwards I still had headaches for more than a week. For me (and everyone is different) = I had mood swings, I lost a lot of weight and the drug boosted my metabolism so much that I couldn't sleep. My doctors wanted me on the bike but because of the lack of sleep I was tired and weak. The other thing I will say is cautious of who you are around. Prednisone kills white blood cells so you are prone to infections.

I've been put on it at least 3 times a year since 2011, and another side effect I've experienced is blurred vision. My doctors tell me that it's because of pressure around eyes causing a change in vision. A day or so after being on the med this goes away... slowly. Since then I've been given a shot of kenalog and the side effects are similar but not as extreme.

[msl819]

not in your head. it's a steroid. enjoy. and when it ends, you will feel like hell. :hello:

^^^^ This right here! I had some prescribed for a bout of bronchitis and strep throat. For the duration of the treatment I felt great. I especially noticed the lack of nagging aches and pains such as in the lower back or neck when riding. Once I tapered off I felt bad for a few weeks worth of riding. It did give me some crazy dreams though!

[Waldo]

I think you have a legit TUE.

[bocobiking]

Had it prescribed for both a bad case of poison ivy & for asthma. The poison ivy Rx hit in late spring. After about 4-5 days on the stuff I was riding stronger guys off my wheel, also climbed noticeably faster on the MTB. But performance benefits aside, I didn't like how it made me feel. "Artificial energy" is the best way I can describe it. Even when I tired, I felt amped up & a little on edge. Would not want to spend a lengthy period of time like this. My prescriptions were only for a week or two's worth and that was long enough for me.

I was prescribed a week's dosage of the stuff for gout. I felt exactly like this, and my cycling numbers were up quite a bit. I was not aware that any of this was possible beforehand; the effect was real.

[onekgguy]

To the OP: what dosage did your doctor have you on?

I'm a regular user of the drug every 12 to 18 months for periods of a few months at a time at a dosage of 50-70 mg for cluster headaches. It's a godsend for those times but I hate being on it due to the loss of bone density, irritableness and inability to sleep regularly. I actually fell asleep while riding nearly two years ago and I attribute it (in part) to the drug.

The main benefit I get from it while riding is the ability to ride pain free. I feel like I'm in my 20s.

I wish I never had to use it again but it's either that or the headaches and the headaches are simply too much.

Kevin g

[rab]

Piling on some similar points already made, I think it probably does help "improve" performance by removing the things that inhibit it--inflammation and pain. As noted, better sleep can be a huge benefit, I would think this could really be true with a shoulder issue.

I used it briefly and didn't notice any dramatic improvements, but the first day I got a got a big shot of it I went riding and was pleasantly surprised when I noted a nagging knee pain was completely gone, not the slightest twinge after weeks of varying levels of pain. I was playing a lot of soccer at the time and always seemed to have a few little tweaks, and just like that I couldn't detect a single thing bothering me. Remember thinking, damn, I can see why pro athletes would use this!

[topflightpro]

It's probably not in your head. Prednisone is banned for competition, though OK for during training.

[Kingfisher]

OP here, honestly i will be glad when this regimen is over, which is sunday am, last pill. i don't like the jittery feelings i've had and lack of sleep is starting to wear thin. But, it did do what was intended, heal my shoulder.

[roadie7]

Yes, the effect is real. I've been on prednisone over the years and I've gone faster in the early days of the treatment with the high doses. The speed declines with the doses. Might as well enjoy it.