LOOK Keo 2 Max Carbon or Blade 2 ?

[fignon's barber]

Just broke my third Look Blade Carbon pedal (1st version). I'm still committed to the Look system ( have used them since 1989 and all shoes/bikes are Look equipped). I'll write this version of Blade off as a bad design. What is everyone's experience or thoughts between the Keo 2 Max Carbon and the Blade 2 ?

[Ralph]

I have both on a bike. I prefer my older Keo max 2 Carbon adjustables.

[fignon's barber]

Was just looking at Alexander Kristoff's Canyon. He opts for the Keo 2 Max C"s over the Blade as well:

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/06/pro-bike-alexander-kristoffs-canyon-aeroad-cf-slx/

[soulspinner]

Sprinters and power guys prolly like the highest release setting of the Blades.

[carpediemracing]

I, too, committed to the Keo system. I started with the Keo Carbon (no metal plate). I found it retained my shoe well, etc etc etc. I bought I think 5 pairs of the Classic/Sprint/whatever - Missus's bike, tandem, mtb for road use, possibly track bike. I never used it on the track bike and on the other bikes the pedals were fine. Low stress situations, no real pushing at all.

I then bought 2 pairs of the Keo2Max, intending on having two sets of the better retention pedals for my two main bikes (which I used to use interchangeably although it required me to swap the Carbons back and forth).

I had a pretty bad season where I had some weird drivetrain issue that caused me to unclip regularly. I couldn't figure out what it was, finding miscellaneous things after looking over and over and over again. Bent chainring tooth, bent chain, etc. I realized after the fact that all these issues were actually results of the main problem - I was unclipping out of the Keo2Max pedals while out of the saddle.

I put the Carbons on and I had zero problems.

Speaking with a former Look rep about these problems, I asked if the Blade 2, with its highest release blade, would work any better. He said not really. I confirmed this by clipping in and out of various riders' bikes (since I promoted races regularly I've gotten to know a lot of people at some level and pretty much everyone I asked was fine with me clipping in and out of their pedals). I found that the Blade and Blade 2 had very similar clip-out feel/tension.

The former Look rep told me that Exustar pedals should retain my foot better without any unclipping problems. I took his word for it, partially because I couldn't find anyone with the pedals, partially because he was basically telling me not to buy something he sold for eons, and ordered two pairs of Exustars.

I found them to retain my shoe significantly better even at about half tension, compared to the Keo2Max at max tension. They retain my foot slightly better than the Keo Carbons at max tension (the Carbons don't have that metal plate on the pedal where the cleat sits).

I can't speak for durability as I only put them on about 6 months ago. The Carbons I bought in 2007 and except for maybe 30 or 40 rides have used them until about Jan 2016.

An added benefit is that the Exustars are inexpensive. The Keo2Max type pedal that I got was $90 or $95 full MSRP. I think I paid more for it, I don't remember. In the post below I mention that I misplaced these pedals for a couple years. Since I bought them Exustar has come out with two more pedal bodies that are nicer. I got steel axles, not the Ti.

Exustar makes pedals for a number of companies. I know they are the Garmin pedals (http://sites.garmin.com/en-US/vector/), in fact it is the same model pedal I have but with the metal plate for the cleat. I know this because Exustar has a tapered axle. Look found that a tapered axle was too inconsistent for a power measuring pedal and they had to go to a non-tapered axle for their pedal powermeter (Look/Polar). If you look at the outer part of the axle you'll notice it's bulkier than the normal Keos (http://www.lookcycle.com/en/us/route/pedales/keo-power.html). This is because the axle is not tapered.

The Look guy (at that time he worked for Look) told me that he didn't expect the Exustar based powermeter to work for a while due to the inconsistent flex of the tapered axle. Apparently they figured it out but it took a while.

I use the same shoes/cleats as before (Sidi, gray Keo cleats) so there is 100% compatibility. I literally swapped the pedals before yet another a trainer ride (essentially all my training for about 1.5 years has been on the trainer), put my shoes on as normal, and got on the bike to ride. Other than reducing tension (I started it pretty high because of my Keo experience) I didn't have to do anything to the Exustar pedals.

I did a post on the Exustars I have:
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2016/06/equipment-exustar-pedals.html

[chazmtb]

Thank you for the insight. I have a set of blade 1 that are getting some plays and creaking. Looks like I will have to replace them soon. I will look at exustar.

[stien]

I came here to say while I too am all in on Keos, once these fail I'm switching over to something else. They just don't last. I've cracked a few carbon bodies and now the older plastic bodies are just being ground into nothing. Perhaps time to try speed play for ease of entry.

[kgreene10]

I rode the 2max for years until two weeks ago when a local mechanic noticed the bearings had a lot of play and used the magic words "you are losing a lot of watts". I replaced with the original blade pedals that I had lying around and the play is gone as well as side-to-side rocking (despite the 2max having the metal plate). With the blades, I have struck the pedal when cornering in the weekly crit, but all around much better (for me). I may go blade 2 as I need another pair. One note - James Huang reviewed them badly, complaining that the weighting makes them hang down and forward, and thus hard to clip into.

[cdn_bacon]

went through 2 pairs of blades, but have never replaced my keo2max:)

[Black Dog]

I rode the 2max for years until two weeks ago when a local mechanic noticed the bearings had a lot of play and used the magic words "you are losing a lot of watts". I replaced with the original blade pedals that I had lying around and the play is gone as well as side-to-side rocking (despite the 2max having the metal plate). With the blades, I have struck the pedal when cornering in the weekly crit, but all around much better (for me). I may go blade 2 as I need another pair. One note - James Huang reviewed them badly, complaining that the weighting makes them hang down and forward, and thus hard to clip into.

Wow, did he do the bench test analysis that he developed while he was finishing his PhD in engineering to calculate the wattage loss? :rolleyes: There would be no wattage loss unless that bearing had developed significant drag. The fraction of a mm of play in the system is not a power attenuator. He was talking out of his ass.

BTW. I run Keo 2 Max and they are good and durable.

[fignon's barber]

I have a pair of the original keo carbons (no steel plate) and keo 2 max in the parts box. The thing I liked about the original blade is the extremely positive "click!" feeling of security for racing. With that in mind, I found a pair of the blade 2's online for sub $100 delivered.
I've been able to keep the squeak down on my other Looks with a weekly shot of Lemon Pledge, and the blade 2 design looks to have addressed the cracking body issue (I broke 3 of the blade 1's, and I weigh 162lb's).

[Ralph]

Maybe this explains the occasional slight creak I get from my CAAD 10 with adaptor sleeve (with Epoxy) and cartridge BB. I've been thinking it was just the sleeve in the BB30 BB shell creaking. Maybe it's the blade Keo's. It doesn't always do it....it's minor....and I've about eliminated everything else.

[kgreene10]

Wow, did he do the bench test analysis that he developed while he was finishing his PhD in engineering to calculate the wattage loss? :rolleyes: There would be no wattage loss unless that bearing had developed significant drag. The fraction of a mm of play in the system is not a power attenuator. He was talking out of his ass.

BTW. I run Keo 2 Max and they are good and durable.

I said "magic words".

[ajhapps]

I run both the Blade 1 and Blade 2 pedals on my bikes, and the Blade 2s are a bit nicer. As someone mentioned above, the 1s are nice and light, but hang kind of weird, so you can never clip in quickly without having to search for the pedal top. The 2s are a bit better after breaking in, as they hang in a better position for "look-free" clipping in.

I haven't had some of the issues others have had with these pedals, other than some creaking. No breaking of the blades at all.