Over fifty stamina help

[Tickdoc]

I mean, rides over fifty miles in length. I know the simple answer is "ride more". "Do hill repeats" etc, but I have noticed my stamina this year is yo yo-ing on rides over fifty miles.

Been dropped from my group three times this year...blew up, whatever.

I feel pretty good up to about 35-40 and then just bam, I feel like I hit a wall.

Maybe I'm not eating enough, but it feels more of a core problem, and I don't like that feeling at all.

Supposed to ride the 110 in Boulder classic this year and I'm starting to get a little worried :eek:

[guido]

Eat more?

[Ralph]

Dr Mirkin talks about it here. http://www.drmirkin.com/public/ezine082910.html

I'm 75...so need all the help I can get. So I ride on sugar water (usually Gatorade) and fig bars. (avoid sugar other wise) Unless the group is very young....I don't usually get dropped. Of course....in Florida....it's easier....even when you can't lead....you can usually sit in.

[Tickdoc]

Makes sense. I usually will bring a frozen uncrustables on a ride like today, but I'm out. Our stop was later in he ride and I blew up before we got to a rest place (mile 35ish)


I don't really like sports drinks. I can stomach some skratch, but would much rather just get something salty and sweet like a payday.

I used to do gels on an hourly basis but have not done that in a while, maybe I should go back to them.

I think I may need to go in for a checkup as well. My primary retired and I am way overdue.

[dgauthier]

(...) it feels more of a core problem (...)

What do you mean by this? Can you be more specific?

Oh, and eat more, and eat real food. If you don't like sports drink try heavily diluted orange juice with a dash of salt. Bananas are terrific, and come in their own wrapper.

[Tickdoc]

What do you mean by this? Can you be more specific?

Yeah, it doesn't feel like it is just food, I feel weaker in general is year than in he past. I am reaching my limits quicker, blowing up more frequently.

I am great in the group, always climbing well, taking my pulls, and keeping pace, but not middle/end of the ride, and at is not like me.

I am drinking less alcohol, eating better in general, but just feel older this year by a much larger scale. Weird.

[dgauthier]

Yeah, it doesn't feel like it is just food, I feel weaker in general is year than in he past. I am reaching my limits quicker, blowing up more frequently.

I am great in the group, always climbing well, taking my pulls, and keeping pace, but not middle/end of the ride, and at is not like me.

I am drinking less alcohol, eating better in general, but just feel older this year by a much larger scale. Weird.

Get a checkup, so you can rule out early onset health problems.

Do you do any strength training? One thing that really, really helped me with everything to do with riding was weight training. (I couldn't believe how strengthening my upper body helped with *climbing*, of all things...)

[AJM100]

How old are you this year? 36-37ish?

[Ralph]

Get a check up. Could save your life.

[Tickdoc]

Get a checkup, so you can rule out early onset health problems.

Do you do any strength training? One thing that really, really helped me with everything to do with riding was weight training. (I couldn't believe how strengthening my upper body helped with *climbing*, of all things...)

I do resistance stretching 3-4 days a week, to keep my core muscles up and my back in check. No weights, though.

I think I will feel better just knowing everything is ok.

You know, I could just be getting older?

[Tickdoc]

how old are you this year? 36-37ish?

45

[stephenmarklay]

If this were me I would, for sure go get a physical and blood work to rule out any health problem.

After that I would look at my training and food. How much riding have I done compared to the past. The symptoms don’t really correlate with age. If you are climbing well than its not your power but rather your endurance. So from a training standpoint I would look at my riding consistency and volume.

Then I would look at the kind of food and the volume of food I was eating. I am eating enough carbohydrates day to day to fuel the workouts? Am I restricting food to drop weight (this would kill endurance) and last am I eating a good balance of whole foods - not dugouts and coffee.

[Tickdoc]

If this were me I would, for sure go get a physical and blood work to rule out any health problem.

After that I would look at my training and food. How much riding have I done compared to the past. The symptoms don’t really correlate with age. If you are climbing well than its not your power but rather your endurance. So from a training standpoint I would look at my riding consistency and volume.

Then I would look at the kind of food and the volume of food I was eating. I am eating enough carbohydrates day to day to fuel the workouts? Am I restricting food to drop weight (this would kill endurance) and last am I eating a good balance of whole foods - not dugouts and coffee.

Actually pretty consistent when I check back over same time last year. I use sportstracker which makes it pretty easy to compare hr, miles, speed, and time.

Definitely an endurance problem, but it just concerns me. Enough that I will heed your (all) 's advice and schedule a checkup.

I've been needing a new dr anyway.

[wallymann]

... I know the simple answer is "ride more"....

this. occam's razor. train for the duration. not technically ride more, but ride for the duration.

also, when you're training solo for that duration, say hour #3, make the last hour tougher -- do some intervals/speedwork when your legs are tired, to prepare you for putting out power when everyone is on their knees.

[unterhausen]

I don't think being 45 is the issue. It might require a change in training. It sure does sound like an eating issue though. I always wonder how much better my early cycling career would have been had I learned to eat better back then.

I find that what used to work for me still does, but I'm not trying to ride at the level you are at. A few years ago, I was sick for the entire spring, and I found 2 things: I like riding my bike, and I don't have to try to keep up to enjoy doing it. So you might want to just embrace the suck.

Having said that, I'm trying to improve my speed a lot, and progress is slow. You can ride slow if you're fast, but not the other way around. Last couple of years have been bad for training due to outside issues. It would have been much better if I could have kept myself at a higher level of fitness.

[biker72]

As others have mentioned a physical and blood work would be a good start. Assuming no issues are uncovered I'd look at what you're eating/drinking during the ride.

For a few years I had a similar problem. I'd get into the ride about 2 hours and completely run out of gas. My doc at the time was a cyclist suggested a few things but nothing worked.

Turned out to be very low blood pressure. It would get as low as 80/60.
After taking magnesium for a few weeks it still gets a little low but has gotten a lot better.

[Tandem Rider]

Get a complete physical just to rule that out. 45 ain't old enough for age to be the issue. Look harder at your nutrition and training after getting the green light from your doc.

[54ny77]

here's my $0.02. regardless of terrain or pace, if i'm out for a longer-ish ride (>2 hours) i eat something after an hour or so (a good bar of sorts) and then a nibble (bite or two) of something healthy every 30 min, maybe a fig bar or one of those shot blocks. gotta keep something in there for energy or may go da bonka bonk. also drink plenty of fluids and don't hesitate to stop briefly every now & then either to take a swig and stretch a tad.

i'm in crap fitness relatively speaking but can peel off a 3-4 hour ride just cruising at a steady speed. but, i'm always nibbling on something, and if i empty a bottle along the way i preemptively stop at a market (if at all possible) just to refill on liquids since the longer the ride the steeper the curve for using fluids as opposed to earlier. and if they sell bananas or oranges i'll buy one and mow it down.

more importantly, agree with what other said on getting a physical.

p.s. not for nothing but those uncrustables things are full of crap. that doesn't help your energy level unless you're riding for an hour or so. you might as well stick a half cup of sugar in a blender and mix it with red bull, a couple tablespoons of vegetable oil and a slice of wonder wheat bread and drink it down. i tried 'em once, a buddy of mine was on a brief kick with them so in the jersey it went. if i recall, i couldn't eat half of it, it was so nasty. there's a myriad of things better out there, healthier and tasty. like bananas.

[dbnm]

I'm 47 and starting to do 50+ mile rides. I find that I have to eat a little bit along the way and drink lots of water. I've been trying to drink 21 ounces per hour. Every two hours I stop somewhere for water.

[tommyrod74]

Back to the Occam's Razor reference...

It's likely you are either underconditioned, underfueling, or both.

As a full-time coach and Registered Dietitian, I'd say to first make sure you are getting 60-90 g of carb per hour if riding over 90 minutes (assuming well-fueled going into the ride). You'll feel much better.

And I second the recommendation to stop buying highly processed food designed to make children fat (Uncrustables). Use whole foods (make your own, tons of recipes out there, the Finish Line Cookbook is great) or buy gels, etc. Or bananas.

[Jaq]

Rest. Good, solid, consistent rest. Aside from all the other great considerations here (nutrition on & off the bike, a check up, etc.), fatigue is absolute murder. The years from 30 - 55 or so seem to me to be the busiest, most stressful for most of the folks I know. Kids, careers, aging parents, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

Take a weekend off. Relax. Get a massage. And while you're at it, have your fit checked if it makes sense. Make sure you're not defeating yourself just by hitting the drops.

[oldfatslow]

Back to the Occam's Razor reference...

It's likely you are either underconditioned, underfueling, or both.

As a full-time coach and Registered Dietitian, I'd say to first make sure you are getting 60-90 g of carb per hour if riding over 90 minutes (assuming well-fueled going into the ride). You'll feel much better.



I agree completely with the above.

Fueling and hydrating are critical. Fueling properly gives you the opportunity to have a good day on the bike.

I turn 50 next year. I am riding the stronger than I ever have. My secret has been putting in the work. If you want to be stronger on 50 mile rides you need to at least monthly be riding 70-100 mile rides. You need to work hard in those last hours on the road. You will find as you do that you are much stronger at the end.

The power in final 10 miles doesn't come from being strong in the final 10 of 50 it comes from doing 35-50% more distance than where that 10 comes in your ride and then using the endurance you built and the strength and power you gained to control those final 10 miles.

And let me finish by saying you do have to work harder. Your body doesn't recover quite as fast. But you can get fit and give the "kids" a run for their money. And never underestimate years of wisdom from riding bikes as an advantage. Knowing where to be in the group at all times to avoid the wind, knowing when to push and when to sit, knowing what to let go up the road and what to chase down. Experience teaches you that and the "kids" often still have to learn it.

Have fun, ride your bike, and kick some ass.

[zap]

Take a break from the group and do several solo 60-80 mile rides.

[milkbaby]

When you say "ride more" are you not riding as much before and less fit? I'm mid-40s too but last year was riding 250-350 miles a week and riding friends off my wheel. This last month I probably rode 100 miles total and felt fat and slow every single mile of it... -_-

[stephenmarklay]

You can try what I am doing - the ride to fitness TDF style. I was going to ride each day of the tour but I started yesterday and I am going to try and accuulate as many hours as I can this month. I need a kick in the pants myself.

[El Chaba]

From the title I thought this was going to be a thread about Viagra....

[Jaq]

From the title I thought this was going to be a thread about Viagra....

It's all about Viagra.

Had a guy (60s) tell me his regimen for hanging with the kids: Viagra (for blood thinning effects; better blood flow), two alka seltzer (bicarbonate of soda; helps cut lactic acid build-up), and two Advil/Aleve (on top of the aspirin in the alka seltzer) to raise his pain threshold.

What kills me about the guy is that I've ridden with him plenty of times when he's off his home-brew peds. He kicks ass; I'm a decade younger, and even when I'm fit & feelin' frisky, I struggle to hang.

Ego's a bizzach.

[makoti]

I think I may need to go in for a checkup as well. My primary retired and I am way overdue.

Good call. I had a similar feeling at the end of the last two years. Started to think that I had to start curtailing my riding. Went in to my doc with a list of all my symptoms over the past few months. BW came back with Lymes, and Chronic Fatigue. Now at least I know what I'm up against. Doing a lot better so far this year.
And yes, proper training can do wonders.

[rccardr]

At 65, I've discovered that hydration and nutrition are critical, especially when doing the high mileage/high elevation change rides.

Personally, I need a combination of compex carbs, protein and sweets (e.g. bagel with PBJ), a good dump in the morning, and a small cup of coffee. Give me The Big Three and I'm good for the first 40 miles or so. Then I need to make sure whatever I eat is something my body will accept and digest, such as another PBJ, stinger waffle, Jelly Belly sport beans, whatever. Forget pizza, Subway, heavy stuff. Camebak electrolyts for the first bottle, then straight ice water the rest of the day, and lots of it.

Feed me right, and I can go all day. Feed me wrong, and it's death march misery. Know yourself, listen to your body.

[OtayBW]

At 65, I've discovered that hydration and nutrition are critical, especially when doing the high mileage/high elevation change rides.

Personally, I need a combination of compex carbs, protein and sweets (e.g. bagel with PBJ), ....Feed me right, and I can go all day. Feed me wrong, and it's death march misery. Know yourself, listen to your body.
+1. Your body changes over time, and I'd be willing to bet that the OP's endurance problem is hydration/nutrition related. More liquid, more often, and with an electrolyte and/or carb boost. Suitable amount of carbs for you body weight at ~known intervals, and for rides longer than 60-70 mi, I stop and eat something substantial (light sandwich or something other than energy bar crap) along the way. Pay attention to decent recovery food right away. I'm 61 myself, and this ain't 'autopilot' anymore for me....

[Hindmost]

How would you describe the pace of the group up until you blew up...whatever?

Always taking your pull can be counter-productive if your goal is to stay with the group and gain endurance capability. Group members usually understand this if you don't come through every time.

As has been suggested you may have to unhitch and find your own pace to go longer miles.

[John H.]

I am great in the group, always climbing well, taking my pulls, and keeping pace, but not middle/end of the ride, and at is not like me.


This statement makes me think that you are working harder than you believe relative to others.
At a certain point they keep holding that pace and you cannot.
So you are burning yourself up without realizing it (or maybe you do realize it).

I agree with others on the food, drink, doctor visit, etc.- But maybe try a more conservative ride plan and see how that works out.

[Tickdoc]

How would you describe the pace of the group up until you blew up...whatever?

Always taking your pull can be counter-productive if your goal is to stay with the group and gain endurance capability. Group members usually understand this if you don't come through every time.

As has been suggested you may have to unhitch and find your own pace to go longer miles.

Pace is 18-20mph. Sometimes ride leader controlled, sometimes it gets quicker as the ride progresses.

I feel fine today. Next ride is tomorrow, so we'll see. i looked back over same ride last year and I was riding with the slower group, so my pace was much much slower. Last year I rode my old steel bike more and hung back to the slower group to ride with a much slower friend for about half of our group rides. Maybe I should do that tomorrow and obey our tag line.....enjoy the ride ;-)

[witcombusa]

Pace is 18-20mph. Sometimes ride leader controlled, sometimes it gets quicker as the ride progresses.

I feel fine today. Next ride is tomorrow, so we'll see. i looked back over same ride last year and I was riding with the slower group, so my pace was much much slower. Last year I rode my old steel bike more and hung back to the slower group to ride with a much slower friend for about half of our group rides. Maybe I should do that tomorrow and obey our tag line.....enjoy the ride ;-)


Life is far too short to be in a hurry...:beer:

[OtayBW]

Pace is 18-20mph. Sometimes ride leader controlled, sometimes it gets quicker as the ride progresses.

I feel fine today. Next ride is tomorrow, so we'll see. i looked back over same ride last year and I was riding with the slower group, so my pace was much much slower. Last year I rode my old steel bike more and hung back to the slower group to ride with a much slower friend for about half of our group rides. Maybe I should do that tomorrow and obey our tag line.....enjoy the ride ;-)
18-20 mph in what kind of terrain/elevation?

[rccardr]

Good idea.

Everything I ride is vintage, so the bike is somewhat heavier than modern carbon steeds. Between that and my age, have to keep a close eye on things and stay within known performance parameters.

On the flats, I can keep up a paceline in the low-mid 20's for about 45 miles before I have to break off and drop down into the high teens. That's what happened on both legs of the BikeMS 150 up in MN a couple of weeks ago. Pair of 75 mile days, last 30 or so each day I dropped off the paceline and finished solo. BTW, everyone else in the line was somewhere between 30 and 8 years younger than me, so no embarassment there. Food at rest stops was pizza and Subway, thankfully I had food in my jersey that my stomach would appreciate/tolerate.

Last weekend at Bike VA, 168 miles and 12,000 feet of climbing over two days. Much slower average speed (max uphill on a 10%+ grade was 3.6, max downhill was well over 45 mph) no paceline, so because I had nobody with whom to compare progress, important to make sure I listened to my body regarding hydration and nutrition due to the combination of climbing, heat and humidity. Passed on the Pizza (again with the pizza!?) at the 44 mile mark and stuck with simple carbs and protein, which really helped when we hit the major climbs in the final 14 miles each day.

So, two different scenarios, two different types of rides, two different nutrition/hydration regimens. Only constant was paying attention to what my body needed and not putting off reacting to its needs.

[Tickdoc]

18-20 mph in what kind of terrain/elevation?


18.9 mph
Avg. speed
2801 kcal
Energy
44.3 mph
Max. speed
3684 / 3720 ft
Ascent / Descent

[OtayBW]

18.9 mph
Avg. speed
2801 kcal
Energy
44.3 mph
Max. speed
3684 / 3720 ft
Ascent / Descent
Hey - I don't know much about kcal and energy, etc. I'm just trying to get some sense of how much climbing (and what type, long pulls; short steep, etc.) and over what distance you're doing to understand your avg. speed a bit better. Just curious. Either way, like I said previously, I'm betting it's a fuel and hydration thing as you change over time...

[Tandem Rider]

Pace is 18-20mph. Sometimes ride leader controlled, sometimes it gets quicker as the ride progresses.

I feel fine today. Next ride is tomorrow, so we'll see. i looked back over same ride last year and I was riding with the slower group, so my pace was much much slower. Last year I rode my old steel bike more and hung back to the slower group to ride with a much slower friend for about half of our group rides. Maybe I should do that tomorrow and obey our tag line.....enjoy the ride ;-)

If you want to ride a little faster, you have to train a little harder and be willing to hurt a little more. It's just a decision that only you can make, and there is no right or wrong answer.

[Tickdoc]

Mainly flat punctuated with short steep hills is as best I can describe it.

Here's a screen grab, if that helps

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Handgod/image_zpsrlsrlnmh.jpeg

[93legendti]

The easiest change is to drink more water (especially before the ride) and gels during the ride.

Also, nothing wrong with taking time off the group ride and doing a few solo rides at a slower pace, but longer distance..

[Tickdoc]

The easiest change is make water (especially before the ride) and gels during the ride.

Also, nothing wrong with taking time off the group ride and doing a few solo rides at a slower pace, but longer distance..

Great time of year to order some gels and foodstuff from the feed. Say, I can even order the same stuff the tdf guys are eating and then I can ride just like them!:p

[Hindmost]

Pace is 18-20mph. Sometimes ride leader controlled, sometimes it gets quicker as the ride progresses.

I guess more importantly the question is: how do you feel at the group pace? Is it, "I am gonna puke," or, "I can do this all day?"

One's self-assessment can be obscured by enthusiasm especially during the early miles of a group ride. With experience one gets to know what to expect at a given pace and act accordingly, whether it is continuing to pull through or hiding at the back.

[Tickdoc]

I guess more importantly the question is: how do you feel at the group pace? Is it, "I am gonna puke," or, "I can do this all day?"

One's self-assessment can be obscured by enthusiasm especially during the early miles of a group ride. With experience one gets to know what to expect at a given pace and act accordingly, whether it is continuing to pull through or hiding at the back.

My usual mo is to struggle in the spring until I get some miles in and then I'm fine by like may.

I feel good at my group's pace. I'm not with the slower fast group and I'm not with the fast fast skinny guys.

I just have this dragging feeling this year unlike others, and it manifests itself halfway or three quarters in.

Also having this weird drop feeling in my chest that is new or more regular. It's like my pulse rate slows sinks. Another reason I need to go get things checked out.