A Question of Ethics, International Broadcasting Rights and Free Market Competition

[MattTuck]

I read recently an exchange between a few netizens about streaming the Tour de France.

Netizen 1: "Hey, how can I watch the Tour de France?"
Netizen 2: "Go to steephill and find a stream, and watch that."
Netizen 1: "Oh, great! thanks"
Netizen 3: "While it is tempting to stream it illegally, You really should watch it on NBCSports. It is important to support cycling by actually watching it on NBC."
Netizen 1: "I don't have a TV subscription"
Netizen 3: "NBC Sports has a streaming subscription you can buy."


So, my question is primarily on the opinion that is underlined and bold. Admitedly, we have an embarassment of riches compared to the days (I'm told) of people recording races in Europe on VHS, and mailing them to friends in the US so they could watch professional cycling. Now, we can watch it on a number of platforms, both authorized (Cable TV, Paid Subscription) and unauthorized (pirate streams, some even in HD), and the quasi-legal (VPN to Europe and buy a subscription there).

Now, I'll admit that I'm an equal opportunity offender. I consume race coverage in all of the above formats. But, more to the point, I prefer Eurosport coverage to that of NBCSports. That is not a value judgement on which is better or worse (though I have a feeling about that as well), it is just my preference. And I vote with my wallet with a monthly VPN service and subscription to Eurosport player.

Now, here is the meat of the question. NBC covered Paris-Roubaix, Paris-Nice, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, ATOC, Dauphine, and a few others. With the balance of races being split between BeIN and cycling.tv. Do you agree with the person above that we should support cycling by watching NBCSports or should we punish them for this balkanized broadcast landscape that cycling finds itself in? And, further, if you just believe that NBCSports coverage is not to your liking, should you feel any qualms about sending your money to Eurosport, and not doing your part to 'support the coverage of pro cycling' here in the US?

While I pay to watch Eurosport coverage, I do feel a little guilty about it. But at the same time, if the NBCSports product was as compelling (breadth of events and quality of commentary), I wouldn't have the need/desire to seek out the Eurosport coverage. I've thought about this, and can't really come to any conclusions as to whether it is right or wrong, or in the best interest of getting more races broadcast in the US.

Curious what other think.

[RonW87]

1. Why is it illegal to stream steephill? While NBC has purchased the exclusive rights for the USA from ASO for the Tour, that is a contract between the two of them. Why would it bind you?

2. To the extent there is an argument that, even if it is not illegal, it reduces the incentive for NBC to purchase the rights and broadcast/livestream the TDF, it seems to me that's like Dasani (Coca Cola) complaining because their product is also available for free out of the tap.

[MattTuck]

1. Why is it illegal to stream steephill? While NBC has purchased the exclusive rights for the USA from ASO for the Tour, that is a contract between the two of them. Why would it bind you?

2. To the extent there is an argument that, even if it is not illegal, it reduces the incentive for NBC to purchase the rights and broadcast/livestream the TDF, it seems to me that's like Dasani (Coca Cola) complaining because their product is also available for free out of the tap.

1. Probably not illegal to watch it. I don't think NBCSports is going to come after individual viewers. But, I think it is unequivocally illegal for the people who set up the streams. Certainly a violation of some copyrights, and probably a host of other digital rights laws. Also, there is widespread malware distributed through many streaming sites. They are definitely in a class of 'legally sketchy' behaviors.

2. Not sure I get the bottled water/tap water comparison. If you set up a bottling plant in your kitchen and were bottling water and then labeling it as Dasani and trying to sell it as such, I'm sure Coke would have a problem with you.

[GregL]

I've purchased the NBC Sports TDF app for my iPad for the past few years and have been very happy with it. HD quality, live streaming or watch later. I spent less per day for high quality TDF coverage than I do for coffee. As a bonus, my wife and teenage daughter are happier since I don't monopolize the TV for three weeks in July :).

Greg

[echappist]

Now, here is the meat of the question. NBC covered Paris-Roubaix, Paris-Nice, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, ATOC, Dauphine, and a few others. With the balance of races being split between BeIN and cycling.tv. Do you agree with the person above that we should support cycling by watching NBCSports or should we punish them for this balkanized broadcast landscape that cycling finds itself in? And, further, if you just believe that NBCSports coverage is not to your liking, should you feel any qualms about sending your money to Eurosport, and not doing your part to 'support the coverage of pro cycling' here in the US?

define the bolded terms above. This is a GDP vs GNP type of issue. Guess who owns Eurosport

While I pay to watch Eurosport coverage, I do feel a little guilty about it. But at the same time, if the NBCSports product was as compelling (breadth of events and quality of commentary), I wouldn't have the need/desire to seek out the Eurosport coverage. I've thought about this, and can't really come to any conclusions as to whether it is right or wrong, or in the best interest of getting more races broadcast in the US.

Curious what other think.

I feel more guilty of my watching of BBC without paying the television license fee. I think you are more than fine here. FWIW, i'd gladly pay that license fee just to watch the BBC. MOTD, Dr Who, War and Peace... list goes on. This has a similarity in that there's BBC America, whose features pale in comparison to what BBC offers.

[MattTuck]

define the bolded terms above. This is a GDP vs GNP type of issue. Guess who owns Eurosport


I feel more guilty of my watching of BBC without paying the television license fee. I think you are more than fine here. FWIW, i'd gladly pay that license fee just to watch the BBC. MOTD, Dr Who, War and Peace... list goes on. This has a similarity in that there's BBC America, whose features pale in comparison to what BBC offers.

I hear you. Discovery Channel.... I think you know what I'm getting at though.

And perhaps guilty isn't the right word. Maybe the word is 'silly', in the sense that it is silly to pay for access to a product available elsewhere that is (in my opinion) that much better than the locally available product...

BBC America... you mean you don't like watching Star Trek TNG?

[vqdriver]

I don't spend too much time following the pros so I'm not sure if there's another option to the nbc app. I've paid for it the last 2 or 3 years and been happy with it. it does what it promises, and if you have apple tv, you can stream it to your living room when you watch at home. for what it is, there's not much to complain about.

I get the argument that helping nbc pay for the rights does incentivize them to continue to do so and gives a better picture of greater interest in the race.

haven't ever done the steephill thing so I've no clue if it's legal or not. but if it's illegal i don't get the free market comparison since we're talking about paid 'goods' vs stolen 'goods'

[Onno]

I just signed up for the app (NBC Gold or something). 30 bucks for the Tour, the Vuelta, and some others. I tried streaming a few other cycling events earlier this year, and was appalled by the poor quality, unreliability, ads, stuff that got downloaded without my approval, etc. Seems pretty cheap for what you get, I think.

[HenryA]

Confirmed cord cutter here as TV is mostly a vast wasteland. I plan buy the App again and watch the Tour wherever I am. On Apple TV or phone or pad.

[ptourkin]

I don't feel guilty about my paid Eurosport subscription. It's a global age and I'm rewarding the producer of a superior product regardless of the license-holder in my market. It's an artificial barrier now.

[zmudshark]

I just found it interesting that ethics, broadcasting, and free-market were all in the title.

[Tickdoc]

F*€k NBC.

[jlwdm]

I am glad to support NBCSN and have every day recorded on my DVR. I have the TV on a lot while I am working from my home office and have been watching some of last year's key stages which I will be deleting this week.

I am getting excited for the Tour. I enjoy watching every bit of every stage as it is the one event with all of the best teams and extreme pressure on every team every day. I love little things like watching the peloton strung out single file on the flats - a tremendous feeling of speed. Or the riders jumping the curbs on the round a bouts as the peloton has to squeeze into a smaller lane.

It is cycling at its best.

Jeff

[unterhausen]

if you pay for vpn and eurosport coverage, I see nothing wrong with that at all. I hope the streaming that comcast gives is as good as the streaming for the Tour of Switzerland and the Dauphine. I might watch an illegal stream at work, not sure. Our media universe in the U.S. is really screwed up.

[saab2000]

F*€k NBC.

What's wrong with NBC? Honest question.


For those with no cable and no desire to watch this on their computers, is there a way to get it via a Roku device? I have one and like it but I can't find a way to buy the programming via this device.

[Tickdoc]

What's wrong with NBC? Honest question.


For those with no cable and no desire to watch this on their computers, is there a way to get it via a Roku device? I have one and like it but I can't find a way to buy the programming via this device.

It's not personal, it's just that I pay for cable and have to endure their commercials. So, I've paid twice already and am not paying for live stream.

[jlwdm]

I record and start behind so I can go through the commercials. Watching some of my recordings from last year this week it is been painful seeing he Hannah and her horse Directv ads even if I can start fast forwarding.

I wonder what this year's painful ads will be. With about 4 hours a day for three weeks all ads get tiresome.

Jeff

[regularguy412]

I record and start behind so I can go through the commercials. Watching some of my recordings from last year this week it is been painful seeing he Hannah and her horse Directv ads even if I can start fast forwarding.

I wonder what this year's painful ads will be. With about 4 hours a day for three weeks all ads get tiresome.

Jeff


Still better than 'Saab ,,,,, Born From Jets'.

But I agree. Living here in the Black Hole of Cycling, pretty much either have to pirate it or buy an additional subscription. Can no longer count on 'just' NBCSN to cover it (read: BeiIn Sports semi-monopoly this year).

Mike in AR:beer:

[oldpotatoe]

I read recently an exchange between a few netizens about streaming the Tour de France.

Netizen 1: "Hey, how can I watch the Tour de France?"
Netizen 2: "Go to steephill and find a stream, and watch that."
Netizen 1: "Oh, great! thanks"
Netizen 3: "While it is tempting to stream it illegally, You really should watch it on NBCSports. It is important to support cycling by actually watching it on NBC."
Netizen 1: "I don't have a TV subscription"
Netizen 3: "NBC Sports has a streaming subscription you can buy."


So, my question is primarily on the opinion that is underlined and bold. Admitedly, we have an embarassment of riches compared to the days (I'm told) of people recording races in Europe on VHS, and mailing them to friends in the US so they could watch professional cycling. Now, we can watch it on a number of platforms, both authorized (Cable TV, Paid Subscription) and unauthorized (pirate streams, some even in HD), and the quasi-legal (VPN to Europe and buy a subscription there).

Now, I'll admit that I'm an equal opportunity offender. I consume race coverage in all of the above formats. But, more to the point, I prefer Eurosport coverage to that of NBCSports. That is not a value judgement on which is better or worse (though I have a feeling about that as well), it is just my preference. And I vote with my wallet with a monthly VPN service and subscription to Eurosport player.

Now, here is the meat of the question. NBC covered Paris-Roubaix, Paris-Nice, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, ATOC, Dauphine, and a few others. With the balance of races being split between BeIN and cycling.tv. Do you agree with the person above that we should support cycling by watching NBCSports or should we punish them for this balkanized broadcast landscape that cycling finds itself in? And, further, if you just believe that NBCSports coverage is not to your liking, should you feel any qualms about sending your money to Eurosport, and not doing your part to 'support the coverage of pro cycling' here in the US?

While I pay to watch Eurosport coverage, I do feel a little guilty about it. But at the same time, if the NBCSports product was as compelling (breadth of events and quality of commentary), I wouldn't have the need/desire to seek out the Eurosport coverage. I've thought about this, and can't really come to any conclusions as to whether it is right or wrong, or in the best interest of getting more races broadcast in the US.

Curious what other think.

In the grand scheme of $ to NBC, I think the advertising $ they realize(and it's all about money, not for the love of the (put name of sport here-particularly cycling in the US)), is teeny tiny, but 'worth it'.

It's hardly illegal to 'watch' a stream, like Steephill or Tiz Cycling..Some copyright something may be stepped on by the guys that stream it, but a viewer isn't liable for anything.

Considering how much I pay for the internet now, I won't pay for any more coverage..if I can't watch it some way on my computer(free), I'll wait for the reports..

[MattTuck]

In the grand scheme of $ to NBC, I think the advertising $ they realize(and it's all about money, not for the love of the (put name of sport here-particularly cycling in the US), is teeny tiny, but 'worth it'.

It's hardly illegal to 'watch' a stream, like Steephill or Tiz Cycling..Some copyright something may be stepped on by the guys that stream it, but a viewer is liable for anything.

Considering how much I pay for the internet now, I won't pay for any more coverage..if I can't watch it some way on my computer(free), I'll wait for the reports..

The issue with NBCSports is that it is basically a commercial with interspersed scenes of the bike race. Let's face it, virtually everything is sponsored. They bought the rights, and treat the broadcast in a very American way... like it were a (American) football game. Pre-game, sponsored by X. Preview of the climb, sponsored by Y. And they pack the commercials in there to wring every dollar out of their investment.

In one sense, I have "paid" for this, because it is part of my cable subscription. So, NBCSports has gotten a few cents from me, whether I watch it or not. However, I don't often tune in -- though I'm not a Nielsen panelist, so I'm not sure that it matters -- so I certainly don't contribute to the viewership numbers that help NBCSports sell the ads. Would higher viewership just lead to more advertisements and more sections of the race that are interrupted/distracted by 'content'? I have no idea.

Compare that to Eurosport, and like others, I am happy to give them the money for (what I consider to be) a superior product... the irony of the whole thing is that Eurosport's production is so much lower budget, they only have a run a fraction of the number of advertisements, and that means that the focus can actually be on the race itself.

[Sierra]

The issue with NBCSports is that it is basically a commercial with interspersed scenes of the bike race. Let's face it, virtually everything is sponsored. They bought the rights, and treat the broadcast in a very American way... like it were a (American) football game. Pre-game, sponsored by X. Preview of the climb, sponsored by Y. And they pack the commercials in there to wring every dollar out of their investment.

In one sense, I have "paid" for this, because it is part of my cable subscription. So, NBCSports has gotten a few cents from me, whether I watch it or not. However, I don't often tune in -- though I'm not a Nielsen panelist, so I'm not sure that it matters -- so I certainly don't contribute to the viewership numbers that help NBCSports sell the ads. Would higher viewership just lead to more advertisements and more sections of the race that are interrupted/distracted by 'content'? I have no idea.

Compare that to Eurosport, and like others, I am happy to give them the money for (what I consider to be) a superior product... the irony of the whole thing is that Eurosport's production is so much lower budget, they only have a run a fraction of the number of advertisements, and that means that the focus can actually be on the race itself.

+1

BeIN Sport's coverage of this year's Giro d'Italia has spoiled me badly. I don't think I can even consider watching the Tour on NBC Sports for this same reason. In the good ol' USA it is all about the almighty dollar--always has been, always will be. It's a good thing we don't treat healthcare in the same brazenly, mercenary way. Oh, wait a minute--we do! lol

[William]

The issue with NBCSports is that it is basically a commercial with interspersed scenes of the bike race....

...Would higher viewership just lead to more advertisements and more sections of the race that are interrupted/distracted by 'content'? I have no idea.

Compare that to Eurosport, and like others, I am happy to give them the money for (what I consider to be) a superior product... the irony of the whole thing is that Eurosport's production is so much lower budget, they only have a run a fraction of the number of advertisements, and that means that the focus can actually be on the race itself.

Some of you might remember the whole "Pitch" for paying for cable when everyone was used to free tv? It was commercial free because "you pay for the content, they don't need to run advertising". See how long that lasted...now you pay for the service, and they make more money on top of that by selling ad space. Capitalism? Okay, but when the ad breaks are longer than the content, and then they run ads on the screen when the content is playing before they break again for more ads....and I'm paying for this "service"? Time to cut the cord...which we did.

I would gladly pay for a service that has max content and little to no advertising. If the ad content creeps up again I would cut the cord again. I'm paying to watch max content, not max advertising.

The best service deserves support.








William

[jlwdm]

It is the Tour de France and I am going to watch it and want it all on my DVR and am going to pay whatever it costs.

Jeff

[Joxster]

Can you download the ITV Hub app and watch it through that without a VPN? It might be worth a shot to try a dry run while the football is on

[peanutgallery]

Comcast is probably already busy trying to monetize illegal streaming

Feel no remorse

[cash05458]

different issue but along same lines... I use cyclingtorrents.nl...you can free torrent pretty much any race in the world...good group of folks there as well...all the eurosport coverage of course but anything else you can imagine in whatever language...download the race that afternoon, bounce it over to tv via roku, send the wife out to buy you beer and bob's your uncle...it is invite only these days...should anyone want an invite just let me know as I have a few...:)

[hooter]

What's wrong with NBC? Honest question.


For those with no cable and no desire to watch this on their computers, is there a way to get it via a Roku device? I have one and like it but I can't find a way to buy the programming via this device.

According to their website the Roku app is coming soon. Doubt if it'll be here in time for this year.

[teleguy57]

Still better than 'Saab ,,,,, Born From Jets'.

Mike in AR:beer:

Don't go dissing my man Saab!:) And I know his parents -- Dad was a PhD for NASA at one point in an incredibly varied and fascinating career.

So you could say he was born to be in aerospace:)

[cash05458]

saab...only way to do that that I know of is download a torrent of said race, then use plex to bounce it over to roku...that works perfectly...