OT: Vintage Fords (specifically early 60's)

[William]

This may sound crazy but here it goes...

It turns out the old 2000 S70 Volvo we were going to pass on to our son needs more work then we thought to pass inspection. We just dumped a bunch of money into it earlier in the year and we are not sure it's worth dumping a bunch more into a car with 225k. Even our mechanic (who would love the work) is recommending against it.

So, for the sake of argument, our son is searching for other cars and he seems to be stuck on pre-1975 cars, specifically an early 60's Ford Galaxy which though not pristine, is a DD that has been well maintained. Part of me thinks cheap Honda/Toyota, but I've also had older pre-electronic vehicles myself which are easy to work on, tune-up, and for inspection purposes only need to pass safety in this State (emissions exempt). So, I'm torn but ultimately this would be his decision & responsibility. It could be a good way to teach him some mechanical/maintenance skills and good together project time. Though I'm sure it's not going to be a big issue to learn - mechanical skills on one make can transfer to another, but this old MOPAR/Landcruiser guy doesn't know a lot about old Fords and was wondering if any of the membership does?




William

[paredown]

Frying pan--meet fire...

I haven't worked on vintage cars much, but I suspect that keeping one on the road will be a different set of problems, not a solution. Trouble free motoring for someone who doesn't want to work on cars--Toyota, maybe Honda.

I'm patching together our '99 Volvo to keep it on the road, and they do have their foibles. But as far as DIY, what complications result from them being newer is more than offset by the wealth of information on the internet on how to solve particular problems--in particular I love Matthew's Volvo.

Out of curiosity--what in particular does the Volvo need?

[Tickdoc]

This may sound crazy but here it goes...

It turns out the old 2000 S70 Volvo we were going to pass on to our son needs more work then we thought to pass inspection. We just dumped a bunch of money into it earlier in the year and we are not sure it's worth dumping a bunch more into a car with 225k. Even our mechanic (who would love the work) is recommending against it.

So, for the sake of argument, our son is searching for other cars and he seems to be stuck on pre-1975 cars, specifically an early 60's Ford Galaxy which though not pristine, is a DD that has been well maintained. Part of me thinks cheap Honda/Toyota, but I've also had older pre-electronic vehicles myself which are easy to work on, tune-up, and for inspection purposes only need to pass safety in this State (emissions exempt). So, I'm torn but ultimately this would be his decision & responsibility. It could be a good way to teach him some mechanical/maintenance skills and good together project time. Though I'm sure it's not going to be a big issue to learn - mechanical skills on one make can transfer to another, but this old MOPAR/Landcruiser guy doesn't know a lot about old Fords and was wondering if any of the membership does?




William

Ha!

Been going through this with my son and his/my old BMW wagon. It's at the shop today :eek:

Seems every bit of rubber is disintegrating on a daily basis. Five years of being in the open with our wild hot and cold swings is taking it's toll.

I love the idea of an old car like that, but the safety aspect would worry more than the maintenance and upkeep.

We are thinking Toyota/Honda/Subaru at the moment. Have to get rid of the wagon first, though.

Do you remember how they handle?

[AngryScientist]

i'm a classic chevy guy myself...

what would concern me about a 60's vintage car daily driven around your neck of the woods is the braking and suspension. a heavy rear drive car with ancient technology for stopping and suspending could be a handful on windy roads, especially if everything is a bit on the worn side. think sloppy steering and bad cornering dynamics.

that 2000 volvo probably handles like a corvette next to that ford. this is not to say that it's a bad idea, but a car like that needs to be driven conservatively, and not in the same manner as one would drive a volvo, for example.

[Fatty]

Me, I'd be all over that Galaxy.

http://images.craigslist.org/00C0C_6KHZQ96ngQg_600x450.jpg

[CampyorBust]

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t50/reddev003/Shelby/car006.jpg
Exceptional!

[William]

Me, I'd be all over that Galaxy.

http://images.craigslist.org/00C0C_6KHZQ96ngQg_600x450.jpg

Yeah, I look at that and think resto-mod. Update the suspension and brakes and head up from there. :) It is a different animal for sure, but you need to learn the bounds of any vehicle you are going to drive.

Volvo: new exhaust system, flex pipe, muffler, SRS light on again, coolant code, and something else I can't remember off the top of my head.






William

[avalonracing]

I once wanted a Falcon Sprint. Small enough to still be drivable.

[jtakeda]

Having just road tripped in a 63 fairlane I'd recommend against it.

Nothing went wrong mechanically. But we definitely had to take it slower and stop to refill coolant a few times due to the fact that there was on expansion tank.

Not the end of the world, but if you actually have to be somewhere this could be annoying

[FlashUNC]

Something else to keep in mind, in an early 1960s Galaxie, the crumple zone in any crash is the people inside it.

[notsew]

How old is the kid. Those things are not good in a crash....

Though, my buddy had one in HS, he managed to survive without a major incident and that thing was a beast to drive (plus you could fit like 20 people in it).

[parco]

How come nobody has mentioned gas mileage? How big is the engine in this thing? How many miles on it? Engines from the mid nineties and beyond were machined to much better tolerances than engines in the 60's and 70's. In the sixties a car with 100,00 miles on it would be in much worse shape than a more recent car with the same mileage.

[Macadamia]

I had a classic car as my first car, a 1965 AMC Rambler, but couldn't afford repairs on the engine eventually. Nevermind it got like 12 mpg, only had lap-belts, and shook like crazy above 50 mph. It was nice to have, but I would really recommend some sort of 90s Japanese car or truck instead. Very reliable, readily available parts, solid gas mileage, and relatively safe(my 95 Nissan pickup doesn't have airbags though). Also everything isn't linked to circuit boards.

[purpurite]

How old is your son? First car or is an experienced driver?


If he's a greenhorn 16-year old, get a cheap Civic. He'll beat the tar out of it, and you won't regret not sinking a ton of initial expense in it. Plus, it will last forever.

If he is a bit more seasoned, an early car can be fun, but it's definitely a different technology animal. Everything is different, and nothing carries over to current vehicles, other than 4 wheels and a steering wheel.

Don't know if I would put my new driver kid in anything before 1996 without some serious thought.

[Ken Robb]

Easy to work on but plan on tune-ups every 10,000 miles, oil/filter every 3,000 miles, maybe chassis lube too depending on the year/model.

Sub-20 mpg even with 6 cylinder engine, poor handling/braking compared to modern cars.

If it has A/C you may not be able to recharge it with freon so an expensive conversion to a modern refrigerant will be required to keep cool.

An old car can be a fun toy but I think there are plenty of better choices for a daily driver.

[572cv]

I started both my kids in old Peugeots. :eek: They learned that cars are machines, that they are wonderful when they work well, and that they can break. The kids had to learn to be resourceful when that happened. They both appreciate better design, and have some good stories from the experience. I'm glad I did it that way.

Of course, the extreme version of that approach would be Citroen (DS) most of which have the virtue of being extraordinarily safe, and with eternal styling. There was a great dealer in RI, Gesner's, which if I remember correctly, was in Tiverton. There are probably some of them still floating around down your way.

But, that would likely also be an extreme version of the money pit you fretted about, if you didn't find the right one. Anyway, despite my bad advice and lousy recommendations, it is a fun process and I hope you find it to be so with your son.

[William]

All good points to consider. My first car was a 69 Buick Electra...considered an old car even then...and I had a lot of enjoyment and some headaches from that vehicle. One accident from being stupid and the other guys Camaro fared much worse...just crimped my bumper a bit.

Just mulling things over at this point. Thank you for all your comments and advice!:cool:






William

[purpurite]

I didn't (want to) believe it when I first saw it, but you should consider this...

https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U

[Seramount]

while an old 60s Galaxy might have some 'cool' factor, it's going to be a PITA to maintain.

if you or your kid isn't into being a weekend mechanic, get something newer, more economical....and safer.

[FL_MarkD]

My older brother is a motor head, has his own hot rod shop. When my younger brother wanted to go back to his roots and buy a late sixties Dodge he reminded him: When the first person in front of you in a modern car slams on those anti-lock four wheel disc brakes, how far do you think you will push them before you both stop?

I love the old cars too, but unless they are updated suspension and brakes, they are dangerous to a careful driver and worse for a young driver.

My .03

Mark

[thirdgenbird]

I had a classic car as my first car, a 1965 AMC Rambler, but couldn't afford repairs on the engine eventually. Nevermind it got like 12 mpg, only had lap-belts, and shook like crazy above 50 mph. It was nice to have, but I would really recommend some sort of 90s Japanese car or truck instead. Very reliable, readily available parts, solid gas mileage, and relatively safe(my 95 Nissan pickup doesn't have airbags though). Also everything isn't linked to circuit boards.

I've daily driven a 1963 rambler classic for the last 12 months, including an Iowa winter. I've got no idea what the fuel mileage is (I am afraid to check) but the 287 v8 will pull very strong up to 90mph. It feels very composed in traffic at 70mph. Handling and suspension really feels no worse than some much more modern American cars. There is just a lot more turns lock to lock.

This isn't necessarily a vote of approval however. 14in tire selection is limited and the ones I have suffer in the rain, the car has no seatbelts, the nonpowered drums don't stop like a modern car, and the vacuum wipers don't keep up in many conditions.

The only modern update I did to the car was a throttle body fuel injection system. This allowed me to easily start the car (and let it idle) even when temps dipped down to -10 degrees or less.

I don't regret my decision to daily drive the car, but the experiment has run its course and the car is up for sale. In the end, I would say the car was very livable in rural environments and smaller towns but ill-suited for more metropolitan areas.

I'm excited to have a quicker steering rack, electric wipers, AC, and a cup holder. Probably in that order.

My likely replacement is an mk6 gti.

[Ralph]

My 2 sons were careful drivers when they were 16, so I bought them new base model Honda's. (CRX at that time). With instructions that this was the last car I would ever buy them. Both those cars lasted about 200,000 miles thru high school and college....minimal maintenance. They were able to sell them for a couple thousand dollars when they had jobs and bought their own cars. Would do same again.....maybe a base Civic, or Corolla. Well under $20,000 new. New everything with a warranty.

[pjm]

Speaking of safety, they don't build 'me like they used to. Yeah right....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g

[thirdgenbird]

I am by no means saying old cars are safe (they are not) but I can't help but feel that video is a little dramatized by the car choice. A GM x-frame was know as an unsafe car when new. The inline six also doesn't do it any favors in an offset comparison.

I would take the modern car in an accident every time, but I would be interested to see this performed with a better engineered vintage car. It would be more representative at least.

[Louis]

If he really wants to be cool and pick up girls and/or women (like Katharine Ross or Anne Bancroft)

An '86 Alfa Spider located in Malden Mass (ie not that far from you)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alfa-Romeo-Spider-Graduate-/122025050203?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1c6942805b:g:zlEAAOSw9eVXWhrt&item=122025050203

http://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ivP.2G_LWyqA/v1/-1x-1.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kcQAAOSwQupXWhr0/s-l1600.jpg

[thwart]

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kcQAAOSwQupXWhr0/s-l1600.jpg


That car would definitely make him...

... a much better cyclist. :D

[ntb1001]

I found an 07 chev cobalt for my son's 1st car.
He is almost 18, the car has low mileage and I got it really, really cheap.
It's a great 1st car. Safe, not to fast, easy cheap maintenance, and good on gas.
I recommend this kind of approach until the driving skill level rises with experiance.

Funny, but I spent more on his road bike a couple of years ago.

[texbike]

Hey William,

This is a cool subject. How old is your son? How mechanically-inclined is he? Good for him that he likes pre-75 (is it actually pre-74?) stuff. A lot of the styling was sooo much cleaner on cars before the impact bumper requirements began to take hold in '74. I can totally understand his reasoning if that is the case.

As other people have mentioned, the early 60s cars are going to have braking and handling that isn't on par with modern/semi-modern stuff. The gas mileage will also be abysmal of course. It would probably be difficult to find a Galaxy from that era with a 6 in it. Most had V8s with either a 292 or 352 being the smallest motors in them.

Now here's where I differ from the other opinions so far - I think that an old Galaxie could be a great car for a kid that has some mechanical aptitude and understands what they're getting into. These cars are super simple. Yes, the braking and handling do suck (especially if they're old and worn out), but they can be improved on. Parts are easy to get, they're easy and straightforward to work on, and there's a huge amount of online support for the old Fords.

I would set the expectations with your son that the braking and handling aren't up to modern standards and that they need to plan and drive accordingly. Spend some time on a deserted road hitting the brakes hard so that they have a good idea of what a panic stop feels like and what it takes. I would also sit down with them and create a list of mechanical deficiencies, research the best fixes for those with modern replacement parts, and prioritize a plan to correct each one of them. This could be a learning opportunity for him as well as a chance for your son to create a bond with the simple, mechanical nature of cars that is probably what hooked many of us on cars as well.

Oh, and I've had several vintage Fords in the past - '62 Fairline Sports Coupe, '62 Galaxy 500, '63 Falcon Sprint, '64 Fairlane base 2 door, and a '64 Fairlane Sports Coupe. All crudely-built, but stylish and simple cars. I'd still love to have a '61 Starliner. One of the most beautiful cars ever built...

[Louis]

That car would definitely make him...

... a much better cyclist. :D

A price he should be more than willing to pay if it gets him a date with a girl who looks like Elaine Robinson:

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTczNDU2MjA5OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwODA1NDU2._V1_U X214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg

[texbike]

If he really wants to be cool and pick up girls and/or women (like Katharine Ross or Anne Bancroft)

An '86 Alfa Spider located in Malden Mass (ie not that far from you)

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kcQAAOSwQupXWhr0/s-l1600.jpg

As much as I love Alfas, vintage Fords are soooo much cooler than a mid-80s, crap Spider. Thwart, that was a great remark! :) Koo-koo-ka-choo, Louis!

Texbike

[Louis]

As much as I love Alfas, vintage Fords are soooo much cooler than a mid-80s, crap Spider. Thwart, that was a great remark! :) Koo-koo-ka-choo, Louis!


I know what you mean, for coolness of a vintage Ford, but as cool as they might be, there is no way in the world that they're as sexy as a convertible Alfa.

And yes, those engines were indeed affected by the emissions requirements of the day.

Edit: Regarding engines - I don't know if it's the engine or the weight of the car (probably both) but it is very surprising how well my '73 GTV does on the super-steep hill going into my subdivision. Keep the rpm up and it just keeps on pulling.

[William]

Cool as it is, I don't think my 6' 6" son is going to fit in that Alfa....or a lot of other smaller cars either. http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/v/very_tall-520.gif







William

[William]

Hey William,

This is a cool subject. How old is your son? How mechanically-inclined is he? Good for him that he likes pre-75 (is it actually pre-74?) stuff. A lot of the styling was sooo much cleaner on cars before the impact bumper requirements began to take hold in '74. I can totally understand his reasoning if that is the case.

As other people have mentioned, the early 60s cars are going to have braking and handling that isn't on par with modern/semi-modern stuff. The gas mileage will also be abysmal of course. It would probably be difficult to find a Galaxy from that era with a 6 in it. Most had V8s with either a 292 or 352 being the smallest motors in them.

Now here's where I differ from the other opinions so far - I think that an old Galaxie could be a great car for a kid that has some mechanical aptitude and understands what they're getting into. These cars are super simple. Yes, the braking and handling do suck (especially if they're old and worn out), but they can be improved on. Parts are easy to get, they're easy and straightforward to work on, and there's a huge amount of online support for the old Fords.

I would set the expectations with your son that the braking and handling aren't up to modern standards and that they need to plan and drive accordingly. Spend some time on a deserted road hitting the brakes hard so that they have a good idea of what a panic stop feels like and what it takes. I would also sit down with them and create a list of mechanical deficiencies, research the best fixes for those with modern replacement parts, and prioritize a plan to correct each one of them. This could be a learning opportunity for him as well as a chance for your son to create a bond with the simple, mechanical nature of cars that is probably what hooked many of us on cars as well.

Oh, and I've had several vintage Fords in the past - '62 Fairline Sports Coupe, '62 Galaxy 500, '63 Falcon Sprint, '64 Fairlane base 2 door, and a '64 Fairlane Sports Coupe. All crudely-built, but stylish and simple cars. I'd still love to have a '61 Starliner. One of the most beautiful cars ever built...

If we were to go this route, this is exactly what I was thinking. They are a different animal and require a different approach to a modern car in handling, maintenance and responsibility. The other plus is with the Pro-Touring/resto-mod movement there are all kinds of upgraded parts available to make them brake and handle like modern cars.

Love that Starliner!








William

[fourflys]

didn't read through all the responses, but I'd suggest looking at a first or second generation Miata... reason's being:
1. can be had in good shape for cheap
2. typically cheap to repair
3. sporty, but not a 400hp Mustang
4. only two seats
5. endlessly upgradable if he likes to tinker

If you do go this way, I'd recommend investing in a roll bar. Usually be be had for around $500 installed at the most...

otherwise, hard to beat Toyota, Honda, or Mazda...

[purpurite]

didn't read through all the responses, but I'd suggest looking at a first or second generation Miata...

One word: WINTER

[texbike]

If we were to go this route, this is exactly what I was thinking. They are a different animal and require a different approach to a modern car in handling, maintenance and responsibility. The other plus is with the Pro-Touring/resto-mod movement there are all kinds of upgraded parts available to make them brake and handle like modern cars.

Love that Starliner!

William

Absolutely! Even without all of the modern, coilover-esque suspensions, 4 wheel disc brake conversions that are available, you can do wonders on these cars by refreshing the suspensions and steering with modern-compound rubber bushings, ball joints, mounts, tie-rods, etc. Add new shocks and swaybars and you should be good to go. Same with the brakes - rebuild them with modern-compound pads/shoes, brake lines, fluids, and upgraded (or at least new) master cylinder/booster. Those should address 80% of the primitive braking/handling issues. Top it off with reasonably larger (and era appropriate) wheels like Torque-Thrusts and modern rubber.

Just for kicks, another Starliner pic. :)

Texbike

[fourflys]

One word: WINTER

I don't see the issue... unless you slam it to the ground, clearance shouldn't be an issue and I can't believe a rwd Miata would be harder to drive in the snow than a rwd 60's car...

if you can't drive a Miata in the winter where you live, then you probably need a truck... BTW- I grew up just outside of Indy and had a small econo car... also spent two tours in Kodiak, AK. ;)

[Ken Robb]

didn't read through all the responses, but I'd suggest looking at a first or second generation Miata... reason's being:
1. can be had in good shape for cheap
2. typically cheap to repair
3. sporty, but not a 400hp Mustang
4. only two seats
5. endlessly upgradable if he likes to tinker

If you do go this way, I'd recommend investing in a roll bar. Usually be be had for around $500 installed at the most...

otherwise, hard to beat Toyota, Honda, or Mazda...

This "kid" is 6'6" so I don't think he'd fit in a Miata. :D

[fourflys]

This "kid" is 6'6" so I don't think he'd fit in a Miata. :D


I did see that after I posted... ;)

[William]

This "kid" is 6'6" so I don't think he'd fit in a Miata. :D

https://markosun.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/tall-william-engessor.png


:):):)




William

[William]

Me, I'd be all over that Galaxy.

http://images.craigslist.org/00C0C_6KHZQ96ngQg_600x450.jpg


Btw, as far as that car goes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMkRdZqD2Xs







William